whos to blame? fox, ratner , writers?

[CGHulk]

Come on people this film was more enjoyable than Superman Returns, quit the moping!

 

[Cyclops]

I personally think that what Halle said about Storm being a strong character, a warrior-woman and respecting the character was bull****. She didn't want more Storm out of respect for the character, she wanted more Storm out of respect for herself.

After all, she's one of the two actors in the series to win an Oscar (one I feel she won only out of political correctness and not for her actual performance - after all, it's awwwwfully coincidental that both her and Denzel Washington win the Best Actress and Actor awards respectively in the same year they gave the lifetime achievement award to Sidney Poitier - yeah, there was nothing at all political about that ) so certainly she deserves more, right? Wrong. Halle Berry disappointed as Storm consistently, giving a wooden performance that almost rivals Hayden Christiansen's turns as Anakin Skywalker and in my opinion ranking with Julian McMahon's Dr. Doom as the worst Marvel character portrayals on film.

Almost every line out of Halle's mouth in this film sounds like it could have been delivered by a Speak n' Spell. So maybe Halle's a good actress. I haven't seen it myself, but maybe she really is. She's just not in the least bit good as a superheroine.

And for the record, I love the hell out of Superman Returns. X3 was the only movie to ever make me walk out of the movie theatre pissed off.

 

[ntcrawler]

Come on people this film was more enjoyable than Superman Returns, quit the moping!

I disagree. Superman Returns had a plot that made me shake my head, but it had that movie magic which X3 sorely lacked. I know that the outcome of Superman was wrong, but it didn't piss me off the way that X3 did, because it wasn't so supposed to be as deep and dramatic as X3 was supposed to be.
In fact I haven't been this pissed off about a movie since Star Trek: Generations came out.

 

[ms.vix]

Yes, that's certainly true. He didn't have the budget to build entire city blocks and then have them be trashed by giant robots. So he made sure the story focused on the characters. Since that's understood to be one of the reasons for the popularity of this franchise anyways: the 3-dimensional, believable characters, with long established histories, feelings, issues, etc. It's the way they interact that tells the stories, not necessarily their special powers. X3 did it the other way around: it's the action sequences that tell the stories, not the characters or their drama.



I was wondering about that too. They didn't really have any strategies to use as a team, only quick moments: Colossus sharing his power with Rogue, Shadowcat sharing her power with Iceman, and the way beast and wolverine worked together to take down Magneto. It's a shame those two didn't use the same strategy to take down Jean. Otherwise it was every man for himself. They sent Shadowcat to protect Leech all by herself. I was hoping she'd have at least one more person with her to add firepower. That and they really must be superheroes or Magneto's soldiers a bunch of blockheads, to have about 100-150 warriors defeated by... 6. ANd Wolverine talking about fighting like a team? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Isn't he usually the one that charges in head-first and the rest of the team tries to restrain him or rescue him from his own perils? Who died and made him leader? :P

Wolverine is SO not leadership material. That was a crazy idea! For gosh sake's, aren't those melodramic-inspirational lines suppose to come out of Halle's mouth instead? Logan looked like a goofball, heh heh.

Ratner said in X-3 Wolverine had not yet decided to join the X-Men, and that in X-3 he'd be forced into a leadership role, and finally forced to "make a choice", "take a stand" and all that crap.

but didn't he make that choice at Alkali Lake when he told Stryker he was sticking with the kid (was it Artie or Jones? I get them mixed up ) X-2 showed him giving up his past to live for the present, to join the X-Men.

 

[ms.vix]

Come on people this film was more enjoyable than Superman Returns, quit the moping!

I don't harrass people who loved this movie. if you liked it, good for you! but it ain't gonna stop me from discussing my opinions with those who care to talk about it.

Wanna trade directors? I'll take Singer any day of the week. Watching Superman Returns made me cry! Just watching it made me think the whole way through---this could've been the X-Men---

Superman fans don't know what they got... take Ratner I say! if you want eye candy, he's your man!

 

[ntcrawler]

but didn't he make that choice at Alkali Lake when he told Stryker he was sticking with the kid (was it Artie or Jones? I get them mixed up ) X-2 showed him giving up his past to live for the present, to join the X-Men.

He did, yes. He basically told Stryker:

"I'd rather take my chances with them" and tossed his dog tags at him. Thus throwing away his old life and starting with a clean sheet of paper. He may have been an animal and evil once, but he was now content with being ignorant and given a second chance.

To be fair, Wolverine would never totally, completely be a part of the X-Men. He may wear the uniform and feel a part of the family, but it's within the character to make certain unannounced roadtrips, disappear for a few days, or weeks to sort out or straghten out whatever's bothering him. It's his way. He is a very, very stubborn man. Even telepaths have a hard time figuring him out

 

[ms.vix]

He did, yes. He basically told Stryker:

"I'd rather take my chances with them" and tossed his dog tags at him. Thus throwing away his old life and starting with a clean sheet of paper. He may have been an animal and evil once, but he was now content with being ignorant and given a second chance.

To be fair, Wolverine would never totally, completely be a part of the X-Men. He may wear the uniform and feel a part of the family, but it's within the character to make certain unannounced roadtrips, disappear for a few days, or weeks to sort out or straghten out whatever's bothering him. It's his way. He is a very, very stubborn man. Even telepaths have a hard time figuring him out

LoL, yeah, that's all true. i get carried away!

 

[ms.vix]

I disagree. Superman Returns had a plot that made me shake my head, but it had that movie magic which X3 sorely lacked. I know that the outcome of Superman was wrong, but it didn't piss me off the way that X3 did, because it wasn't so supposed to be as deep and dramatic as X3 was supposed to be.
In fact I haven't been this pissed off about a movie since Star Trek: Generations came out.

Star Trek: Generations was bad lol, I was a trekkie as a little kiddie, not at all the movie critic. Perhaps if I watch it again.... Though I did like how Data said; "ohhhhh, shi-" very out of character.

But back to the topic!

actually, i've run out of things to moan about. please, someone give me something to seethe over! I'm afraid I've talked to death everything I hated about this movie....

good Lord, I'm going to have to go to the X-2 board next and talk about... positive things!!!

LoL, sorry! am only making fun of myself.

 

[ntcrawler]

actually, i've run out of things to moan about. please, someone give me something to seethe over! I'm afraid I've talked to death everything I hated about this movie....

OK, here's something that X3 forgot to address:

In X2, Charles was tricked into finding all the mutants and then killing them. However many there are, for about a minute all the mutants in the world suddenly collapsed to the ground, clutching their heads and screaming in agony. Then Charles was told to do the same thing with the humans. For a minute, now all the humans on the planet were lying on the ground and clutching their heads with agony.

If you happen to be just standing there or at home, no problem. But if you happen to be driving a car at expressway speeds, or the captain or pilot of a 747 airliner doing final approach, or working with dangerous chemicals, or changing fuel rods in a nuclear reactor, etc (you get the idea) you would be very, very, very dead. Fans have estimated that the death toll would have been in the millions. Some go as far as 11 millions. They even gave a name to this incident, referring to it as the great "blackout".

Yet it didn't seem to be a big deal in X3. I guess mass death and unusual mental events like this are as common as lifting and moving bridges to the people.

Come on, how you could ignore something as massive and serious as that? Especially in a post 9/11 world????

 

[Cyclops]

X3 ignored EVERYTHING about X2 except for Jean's "death".

 

[ntcrawler]

X3 ignored EVERYTHING about X2 except for Jean's "death".

Yeah that sums it up nicely. That's the only thing that was continued from the first 2 films. Well sort-of. They didn't get that part right either.

 

[ms.vix]

OK, here's something that X3 forgot to address:

In X2, Charles was tricked into finding all the mutants and then killing them. However many there are, for about a minute all the mutants in the world suddenly collapsed to the ground, clutching their heads and screaming in agony. Then Charles was told to do the same thing with the humans. For a minute, now all the humans on the planet were lying on the ground and clutching their heads with agony.

If you happen to be just standing there or at home, no problem. But if you happen to be driving a car at expressway speeds, or the captain or pilot of a 747 airliner doing final approach, or working with dangerous chemicals, or changing fuel rods in a nuclear reactor, etc (you get the idea) you would be very, very, very dead. Fans have estimated that the death toll would have been in the millions. Some go as far as 11 millions. They even gave a name to this incident, referring to it as the great "blackout".

Yet it didn't seem to be a big deal in X3. I guess mass death and unusual mental events like this are as common as lifting and moving bridges to the people.

Come on, how you could ignore something as massive and serious as that? Especially in a post 9/11 world????

(sigh of relief) thanks! that's actually something I've been pondering/writing about for a while now.
I've got this prologue I'm working on where Charles is speaking about the events of Alkali Lake, the devastation it caused on a global scale is not something which can be ignored.

Actually, I'm setting it up as a way to introduce Bolivar Trask and the "early" type sentinels, along with government underground agencies (just made that up, bear with me) helping Worthington Enterprises in their quest to come up with a cure... perhaps even a virus like Legacy? (it's a long shot, but hey, I'm throwing it out there)

Am still working on it, but you're right. In the novel X-2 Claremont describes Charles' psychic onslought (am using the specific word "onslought" for Xavier ) as being very.... ugly. I would think that most, healthy adults would be able to survive it, but what about babies and and elderly people? Imagine all the mutations which much have activated when this happened.

Anyway, that's a pretty big event. It's historical even. It shouldn't have been ignored. I'm sure people like Sebastian Shaw are not sitting idly at home waiting for another attack.

thanks again! my mind is now preoccupied again!

 

[MaleRogue]

I think you should get Ratner out the poll and replace it with Rothman and his daughter

 

[La_She-Beast]

*a nightmare, a mighmare*

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms.vix
actually, i've run out of things to moan about. please, someone give me something to seethe over! I'm afraid I've talked to death everything I hated about this movie....

OK, here's something that X3 forgot to address:

In X2, Charles was tricked into finding all the mutants and then killing them. However many there are, for about a minute all the mutants in the world suddenly collapsed to the ground, clutching their heads and screaming in agony. Then Charles was told to do the same thing with the humans. For a minute, now all the humans on the planet were lying on the ground and clutching their heads with agony.

If you happen to be just standing there or at home, no problem. But if you happen to be driving a car at expressway speeds, or the captain or pilot of a 747 airliner doing final approach, or working with dangerous chemicals, or changing fuel rods in a nuclear reactor, etc (you get the idea) you would be very, very, very dead. Fans have estimated that the death toll would have been in the millions. Some go as far as 11 millions. They even gave a name to this incident, referring to it as the great "blackout".

Yet it didn't seem to be a big deal in X3. I guess mass death and unusual mental events like this are as common as lifting and moving bridges to the people.

Come on, how you could ignore something as massive and serious as that? Especially in a post 9/11 world????

Indeed, what happened to that. If Charles managed to make business with the president by "apologizing", I think they should've shown that. They resumed everything with Storm's "we have a president who understands us, a mutant in the office" It's like "ha ha ha lalalaala- we won't ever try to destroy the world again, promise, we're friends now".

Once again I say,
It will come.....and when it does it will be directed by Bryan Singer and shall be titled "Xmen Returns", but will take place directly after X2.

Please, please make it come true... or I'll dye my skin blue and put on a blue carpet.

 

[ntcrawler]

Am still working on it, but you're right. In the novel X-2 Claremont describes Charles' psychic onslought (am using the specific word "onslought" for Xavier ) as being very.... ugly. I would think that most, healthy adults would be able to survive it, but what about babies and and elderly people? Imagine all the mutations which much have activated when this happened.

Oh but it was very ugly. First it hit all the mutants, and then it hit all the humans. It wouldn't necessarily have to kill them, but it would immobilize them long enough that whatever else they're doing would kill them. If you were flying a plane, that plane would fall out of the sky. If you were landing a 747 jumbo jet full of passengers, you'd end up with a fiery wreckage and alot of dead people. If you were driving a car on the expressway, you would have pileups involving hundreds and hundreds of cars. Basically if you were doing anything that's risky and involves concentration, you'd be dead and you'd probably take along anyone who was with you or depended on you. That's nothing sit by idly. And if they traced it to a secret base straddling the US / Canadian border, it would make the politics only that much uglier.

Anyway, that's a pretty big event. It's historical even. It shouldn't have been ignored. I'm sure people like Sebastian Shaw are not sitting idly at home waiting for another attack.

Mutants would blame humans, and humans would blame mutants. It certainly wouldn't help improve human / mutant relations. You want your excuse to unleash the sentinels? There it is. Even if the president wouldn't allow it after his talk with Xavier, there are politicians and soldiers under him who aren't as principled and peace-loving. I'm sure Stryker was not one of a kind.

X3 leaving out such minor details as this is again proof of how sloppily that movie was thrown together.

 

[ntcrawler]

Indeed, what happened to that. If Charles managed to make business with the president by "apologizing", I think they should've shown that. They resumed everything with Storm's "we have a president who understands us, a mutant in the office" It's like "ha ha ha lalalaala- we won't ever try to destroy the world again, promise, we're friends now".

"We're mutants, but not like them. We're the good guys. Honest, Mr President. We won't try to destroy the world".

Actually CHarles's speech was fairly inspriing I think. He said something along the lines of that there are people who want to cause a war, and there are people like them who want to stop a war. Things have gotten ugly and there have been casualties on both sides, some very touching and painful to them. And that the President had a choice. He was currently facing a major crisis, and they were offering him an opportunity.

Sadly, that guy stepped out of office and was replaced before the events in X3, so we'll never know how things turned out. Judging by the new guy who took over as president, I don't think he was as... open minded as his predecessor.

 

[Chaos Bringer]

Come on people this film was more enjoyable than Superman Returns, quit the moping!

easily. without effort even.
Not quite as good looking though, was it?
X3 delivered what the two other X films didn't. I liked it.

 

[La_She-Beast]

easily. without effort even.
Not quite as good looking though, was it?
X3 delivered what the two other X films didn't. I liked it.

What did you like about the film Chaos?

 

[ntcrawler]

You want nitpicks? You want plotholes? Here's another one.

Warren Worthington, aka Angel shows up at the Xavier mansion. "I heard this is a safe place for mutants?" or something like that? Yes it is, and so he stays. The team then gets ready to go to Alcatraz. Suits up and walks over to their aircraft. Angel is NOT with them.
During the Alcatraz battle, Angel arrives a few minutes after the X-Men and saves the day. It's obvious that he was not with them during their cross country flight. They have a supersonic aircraft. Angel has... wings...

Damn good wings...

 

[FaT_tONle]

What did you like about the film Chaos?

I think the administration knew not every mutant was bad... that's why the president only targeted Magneto's "terror" group... so the fact that people were more accepting of mutants isn't all that unbelievable... I thought the movie was flawed but how was it not as emotional if not more than X2... forget about the portrayal of the characters for a second... this movie was emotionally gripping in many circumstances throughout the film... it doesn't get enough credit for that... the story was flawed... the characters were misused... but I clearly thought this was the most emotional and action packed film of the trilogy... deserves a solid B at least from fans who aren't gonna knit pick on every damn thing.

 

[gambitfire]

i love this thread, all the valid points and great facts on why this movie was so bad makes me feel better that im not the only one who felt cheated. ....

 

[ntcrawler]

I think the administration knew not every mutant was bad... that's why the president only targeted Magneto's "terror" group... so the fact that people were more accepting of mutants isn't all that unbelievable...

I agree. what disturbs me was that there was no fallout or backlash from the "blackout" incident caused by Charles using that evil Cerebro.

I thought the movie was flawed but how was it not as emotional if not more than X2... forget about the portrayal of the characters for a second... this movie was emotionally gripping in many circumstances throughout the film...

What are you talking about? If we forget about the portrayal of the characters, then all you're left with are stunts and special effects. And that does NOT tell a story. The characters do. I'm sorry but the characters and the way they're portrayed are like, a major, important point of the movie! The Phoenix saga is supposed to be a story about sacrifice and redemtion and showing that love is the ultimate power of all. Not about gee-whiz special effects, things blowing up and flying all over the place. The only emotion that that conveys is "wow, cool effects".

it doesn't get enough credit for that... the story was flawed... the characters were misused... but I clearly thought this was the most emotional and action packed film of the trilogy...

It had emotion all right, but again it was for the wrong reasons. The production staff and writers were trying to make us feel sad and devastated for a series of events that were supposed to not happen in the first place. They were determined to kill off certain characters no matter what. And for no reason. Not to make a point, not to advance the plot, not to show them make a sacrifice or as a sign of heroism, but for the sole reason of getting them to die to remove them from the story and potential sequels. That was their ultimate goal and the way they set up the story to lead to those deaths was sloppy and wrong.

deserves a solid B at least from fans who aren't gonna knit pick on every damn thing.

I can sympathize, but I can't agree. A good movie requires you to sit back, suspend disbelief and let it tell a story. With this movie, I cannot suspend my disbelief. In fact, after 10 minutes I am in TOTAL disbelief about what's being portrayed on screen.

 

[ntcrawler]

i love this thread, all the valid points and great facts on why this movie was so bad makes me feel better that im not the only one who felt cheated. ....

Strength in numbers, buddy. Be it times of joy or times of crisis like this, we stand united

 

[FaT_tONle]

Cyke couldn't shoot a big role... I am not saying it's Marsden's fault... but the guy did sign with Supes... wtf was Fox supposed to do... get over it already... Pheonix was butchered... yes... but let go of Cyke already...

 

[ntcrawler]

Cyke couldn't shoot a big role... I am not saying it's Marsden's fault... but the guy did sign with Supes... wtf was Fox supposed to do... get over it already... Pheonix was butchered... yes... but let go of Cyke already...

What were they supposed to do? Hold off on the Phoenix storyline. Being still distressed after the death of Jean, Cyclops leaves the team for a sabbatical and runs off to spend time at his family cabin in Alaska. There. Problem solved. He's out of the script so that Marsden avoids a schedule conflict, he's effectively removed from the storyline, but he ain't dead.

It's not that hard. I came up with this idea in 30 seconds, and I'm not a professional writer.