Why all the hate over the flag shot?

[Spider - Man]

I think it's that the fact that the film-makers, and a great deal of posters here, didn't understand or cannot appreciate that fact that a huge portion of this film's audience were going to find a shot like that "off" and "unnecessary". And I know it's a very brief shot, but it's in there, INTENTIONALLY, not by accident and not as a throwaway shot.

Well of course it was intentional. I don't think ANYONE here has suggested that the shot wound up in the movie accidentally! Raimi watchin final cut: "Hey, how'd THAT shot get in there?!!"

It was a conscious and planned decision to use what may be the biggest film of the year to push a political image.

From everything I've heard about Raimi, he is as sweet a person as you could want to meet, ergo I don't think he'd put in an image to push a 'political image' to upset a large group of people. I think it more likely that he was trying to pull together some pro-American sentiment within America because Amnerica really needs that right now.

I think what's winding most protractors up is the fact that those championing the shot "don't get" why some won't like it to the point where you're getting angry at the protractors for not conforming.

And I know "Spider-man's American!!! What do you want!?!" well yes, Spider-man's an American, but he's also incredibly popular as a character because he appeals to such a massive amount of people around the world, because Peter Parker could be any teenager - that's what makes the character great. And the character's success is attributed to that appeal, so gettin on a high horse and proclaiming Spider-man as 'your hero' as such, I think, is a little bit short sighted and ignorant - a sort of "DON'T ARGUE, HE'S NOT YOUR HERO TO FOLLOW AND LOVE".

Nobody wants to change his costume or the city he lives in cuz they're part of that appeal, they are elements that were there from day one and don't carry the baggage of a singular political point but are rather just the canon of the character, but a ****ing giant waving CGI flag does come with that baggage and the fact is, the film-makers should have known better.

My 2 cents.

I never said Spidey was 'ours'. In fact, I think I clearly stated (about 100 or so pages back!) that he WASN'T mine to 'share'. I know I've used the James Bond analogy before because it fits and I can't really think of another popular Brittish character so loved by so much of the world. Bond is pure escapist fantasy. When a man watches a James Bond movie, he wishes he could be James Bond. I MYSELF would rather be James Bond than Spider-Man, BUT I never got bent out of shape during the opening credits of The Spy Who Loved Me when it showed Bond superimposed against the brittish flag (which took up the entire screen btw). The thought never even crossed my mind. I didn't feel 'left out'. I didn't feel like I was taken out of the movie just because I couldn't get my mind off the fact that Bond was linked with the Union Jack. The American flag is not, and does not represent, a 'singular political point', just like the Union Jack doesn't represent the IRA.

I guess I can understand this sentiment from English people over the flag considering, as one poster said earlier, an English citizen gets labeled racist now for displaying the Union Jack in their own country! Truly sad! I am sounding off on this board because I don't want to see this happen in America. I'd hope that more people, especially American people, could understand THAT!

 

[UltimateJustin]

Spoken like a true liberal zombie!

First of all, just so we're clear and not spewing the 'bush lied' line that the libs want mindless sheep like you to repeat ad nauseum, Bush extended a deadline 2 TIMES to Saddam to cooperate with the UN investigators who were trying to uncover the truth, but Saddam WOULD NOT COOPERATE! Bush said if he didn't cooperate, we were coming. Saddam didn't cooperate so we went in. WHY DOES EVERYONE SO CONVENIENTLY FORGET THIS? Do I agree with everything about the way the war was handled? No. But even the Democrats voted in favor of going into Iraq. Bush keeps his word about going to war with Iraq if Saddam doesn't cooperate, Saddam doesn't cooperate, Bush takes us to war. Where did he lie? "Oh, it was for the oil!" Proof? Al Quaida attacks the US on 9/11 and yet we have liberal idiots like Rosie O'donnel saying stuff like "Don't fear the terrorists. They're mothers and fathers." The real reason so many outside this country hate America is because they can see that half of this country is so filled with hate over its President that they feel that they can safely jump on the bandwagon too. Whatever an American thinks about its President, he should still stand up for his country. Kinda like a family member, you may not agree with what they do, but you'd still stand up for them if anyone else attacks them. But then again, you probably wouldn't do that after all so maybe I just wasted an analogy.

This country's presidency was a joke to the rest of the world during the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal, BUT that didn't mean that Americans couldn't still love their country and it's flag (i.e: the ideals that it was built on, as I've said many times before). If the rest of the world wants to be anti-American because they don't agree with the actions of its president, so be it, but I will be pro-American just as loudly as they will be against it - no matter WHO is in the White House.

And just so everyone realizes, the last thing anti-America/Bush people want (even those who are Americans) is for the US to be victorious in Iraq. The same people who cry out to help the suffering and poverty-stricken in other countries would sooner see the Iraqis remain under a tyrannical dictator than see them become a democracy because that would make Bush right, and that's one thing they wouldn't know how to live with. It's all political with them now. A victory in Iraq is a defeat for the democratic party and anyone who blasted Bush for his actions. Their defense is "It can't be won" like everyone is now a war strategist. They just always fail to include WHY it can't be won. They're right it can't be won if they're alluding to congrees cutting off funds to our soldiers.

The sad thing is, when we don't do something about Iran because whoever is President next is afraid of being labeled a war-monger and we get attacked with a nuclear weapon, the same people who blasted Bush will be the first to jump up and say "We should've done something when we had the chance!" but then STILL be against going after them in retaliation.

Again, I don't agree with everything Bush has done, just like I never agreed with everything ANY president has ever done, but when people throw out the 'broken record Bush lied' line, I want to make sure they have more of the facts and are not just speaking out of blind hatred for Bush as you seem to be doing.

This is not the forum for this kind of discussion, and it no longer even has anything to do with the Spider-man film. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even their right to hate America (if they do), just as I have the right to mine. But I have stated mine enough that everyone knows that there are SOME people who do love America, even when she's down.

Nice talking points, it sounds like you got them directly from glenn beck, not even hannity but glenn beck. Clearly you werent paying attention over the last several years or else your eyes and ears are closed off to whats happening in this country. Bush lied. I'm seriously. Listen to the new Linkin Park even they know it now.

 

[GRUNT95]

Why hate an American symbol just because you dont like the current administration ?

DONT BASH MY FLAG OR MY NATION !!!!!
Bash the president all you want , but dont judge and bash all Americans for some poor decisions made by a president.

Push a political image ???? I didn't know that the American flag ONLY represented the CURRENT political administration. I thought that my flag represented America, past , present , and future. I guess if you hate what America was , is ,and is going to be , I'm wasting my breath.

MY God. It's not like it showed Peter Parker voting a Republican ticket and beating up Sandman for cheap oil !!!! It never showed Spiderman calling Pres. Bush and asking his advice on how to take out Venom. Come on , guys.

 

[Fried Gold]

DONT BASH MY FLAG

Your flag sucks.

 

[Spider - Man]

Nice talking points, it sounds like you got them directly from glenn beck, not even hannity but glenn beck. Clearly you werent paying attention over the last several years or else your eyes and ears are closed off to whats happening in this country. Bush lied. I'm seriously.Listen to the new Linkin Park even they know it now.

Again with the brain-washed broken-record "Bush lied" with no evidence to back it up.

And you should be flamed off the boards over that last line alone. But you sound young and easily influenced by the liberal press. The fact that you want to cite Linkin Park is enough to tell me that you let other people form your opinions for you.

First off, I don't even know who Glen Beck is, but it is clearly someone that the liberal media has told you you better not like or listen to. I don't watch Hannity. I don't let movie stars or rock and roll musicians determine my political stance as you apparently do. Your dialogue sounds like high-school-MTV-fed hyperbole.


First tell me how I am wrong about Bush extending the deadlines on the UN investigations TO KEEP FROM GOING TO WAR and Saddam refusing to cooperate.
Then tell me what Bush lied about and the evidence you have to back it up.
And then explain to me why you want to reference the 'poverty-stricken nations' of the world who 'we won't help' yet want to deny Iraq a chance at a free democracy.

 

[Fried Gold]

Linkin Park is the sound that something jumping the shark makes.

 

[GRUNT95]

Your flag sucks.

Great post.

 

[Spider - Man]

Your flag sucks.

Perhaps you should worry more about your own country's flag -

[http://www.gopbloggers.org/mt/archives/002221.html ( I particularly like this line: "but it doesn't seem to take much intimidation for Britain to bow to its Muslims' demands.")]

- unless of course, you're one of the ones who would actually like to see the Cross of St. George outlawed which would then remove all question as to the reason for your opinion of the American flag and the lay bare your true feelings for this country.

 

[Fried Gold]

Great post.

Tee hee.

 

[Fried Gold]

Perhaps you should worry more about your own country's flag -

[http://www.gopbloggers.org/mt/archives/002221.html ( I particularly like this line: "but it doesn't seem to take much intimidation for Britain to bow to its Muslims' demands.")]

- unless of course, you're one of the ones who would actually like to see the Cross of St. George outlawed which would then remove all question as to the reason for your opinion of the American flag and the lay bare your true feelings for this country.

I'm not even sure I can cope with the riduculousness of this.

Oh, wait, it turns out I can.

I have to check, you see, because it seems that you may have mistaken it for something important.

 

[Spider - Man]

I'm not even sure I can cope with the riduculousness of this.

Oh, wait, it turns out I can.

I have to check, you see, because it seems that you may have mistaken it for something important.

Well, if this isn't important to you -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKUoxbR9mwA

- you may just be the kind of person I thought you were. And if you're not, I bet that WILL be important to you one day.

I'd also think you'd take more care in spelling 'ridiculousness'.

 

[weezerspider]

Bush lied. I'm seriously. Listen to the new Linkin Park even they know it now.

Wow, Your getting political advice from Linkin Park. What are you, mentally insane? Are you 9 years old? Oh and the whole U.S. Starts wars for no reason. Tell that to the people who died on 9/11. Let's see if they think the war has no reason. If you were alive in WWII you'd probably have been like "oh, come on, Pearl Harbour wasn't worth going to war". Liberals = ****** who just wanna sit around and fornicate themselves. Lets fight global warming and save the PINGUINS INSTEAD OF OUR OWN COUNTRY! That makes a whole lotta sense especially sense the same scientists in the 70's said there was going to be global freezing. Makes a ton of sense. Damn liberals.

 

[Fried Gold]

And take their wives as war booty

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!1!!

Well, if this isn't important to you -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKUoxbR9mwA

- you may just be the kind of person I thought you were. And if you're not, I bet that WILL be important to you one day.

I'd also think you'd take more care in spelling 'ridiculousness'.

I think you were meant to put an 'it' between 'that' and 'will' but that's okay. In answer to your question, a bunch of shouting spastics is about as important to me as putting sugar on my cornflakes. We can't curb ones enthusiasm for their beliefs, no matter how ridiculous otherwise we risk turning them into martyrs. That's what free speech is all about (y'know, that thing that America doesn't allow).

 

[Spider - Man]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!1!!



I think you were meant to put an 'it' between 'that' and 'will' but that's okay. In answer to your question, a bunch of shouting spastics is about as important to me as putting sugar on my cornflakes. We can't curb ones enthusiasm for their beliefs, no matter how ridiculous otherwise we risk turning them into martyrs. That's what free speech is all about (y'know, that thing that America doesn't allow).

Well,that's what you get for thinking (and I use the term loosely). You see, I said "Well, if this isn't important to you -" referring to the video and then said "I bet that WILL be important to you one day." ALSO referring to the video. 'This' and 'that', both referring to the video. I suppose you could put 'it' in there but with 'that' referring directly to the video, it isn't necessary. Grammar 101.

Moving on, in America, there is freedom of speech, but it doesn't allow someone to scream "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater. It also doesn't allow statements that would be considered treasonous. A person can also be arrested for telling someone they are going to kill them. See, freedom of speech isn't as simple as your mind imagines it to be. It has to be interpretted intelligently, hence your failure to fully comprehend the concept.

My estimation of your age falls with each post you make. Your country is being taken over by radical Islam without a shot being fired and these folks are in the streets yelling how they want to kill you, and it's not important to you? Yes, keep worrying over much more important things like the shot of the American flag in SM3.

 

[venom892]

Wow, Your getting political advice from Linkin Park. What are you, mentally insane? Are you 9 years old? Oh and the whole U.S. Starts wars for no reason. Tell that to the people who died on 9/11. Let's see if they think the war has no reason. If you were alive in WWII you'd probably have been like "oh, come on, Pearl Harbour wasn't worth going to war". Liberals = ****** who just wanna sit around and fornicate themselves. Lets fight global warming and save the PINGUINS INSTEAD OF OUR OWN COUNTRY! That makes a whole lotta sense especially sense the same scientists in the 70's said there was going to be global freezing. Makes a ton of sense. Damn liberals.

You know I have no problem with people having opposing views but it gets under my skin when the word liberal is used as a derogatory term.While I disagree with the republican agenda and I'm a democrat but I never go out of my way to insult republicans or people who don't agree me.That to me is childish and means you really don't have anything to really contribute to a discussion.Also whether you'd like to admit it or not global warming does exist and there is tons of evidence to prove so.While Sadam Hussien was without a doubt one of the most evil men in our history there is no evidence to prove his involvement in 9/11.9/11 was a true tragedy and it's a shame it's now being used by both factions in a political manner.As far as Bush lying this is said because no weapons of mass destruction were found and there was no proof there were any.Also about the whole theory that the U.S. did it to free Iraq and protect us from further attacks then why not engage other countries who have the same atrocities done to civil rights as Iraq did like China?Well no China is a great business partner to the U.S therefore who cares about China's citizens?Also I believe before going to help other nations and act as the world's savior America has to solve it's problems first.

 

[GRUNT95]

You know I have no problem with people having opposing views but it gets under my skin when the word liberal is used as a derogatory term.While I disagree with the republican agenda and I'm a democrat but I never go out of my way to insult republicans or people who don't agree me.

While Sadam Hussien was without a doubt one of the most evil men in our history there is no evidence to prove his involvement in 9/11.9/11 was a true tragedy and it's a shame it's now being used by both factions in a political manner.

I'm a conservative and a republican , and I agree with the above.

 

[Spider - Man]

You know I have no problem with people having opposing views but it gets under my skin when the word liberal is used as a derogatory term.While I disagree with the republican agenda and I'm a democrat but I never go out of my way to insult republicans or people who don't agree me.That to me is childish and means you really don't have anything to really contribute to a discussion.

I agree and I only use the term liberal or lib to identify a certain group just as I would use conservative to identify another.

Also whether you'd like to admit it or not global warming does exist and there is tons of evidence to prove so.

I absolutely believe in global warming. What I DON'T believe is that mankind in general, or conservatives specifically, have anything to do with it and couldn't have any control over it if we wanted to. If you want to talk evidence, read the book 'Unstoppable Global Warming' - http://www.amazon.com/Unstoppable-Global-Warming-Every-Years/dp/0742551172 - or read this -http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=2319 - to see how there is a heating/cooling cycle every 1500 years and the evidence of how it happens independently of man's ability to control. I won't get into all the global warming doomsayers who drive big gas guzzling SUVs while preaching how everyone else needs to knuckle down and conserve and stop damaging the ozone.

While Sadam Hussien was without a doubt one of the most evil men in our history there is no evidence to prove his involvement in 9/11. 9/11 was a true tragedy and it's a shame it's now being used by both factions in a political manner.

I don't think the question was whether Saddam was directly involved in the 9/11 attacks. The statement I always hear is "There is no evidence linking Al Quaida with Iraq" and yet every time Americans are killed in Iraq, it is most often by someone with ties to Al Quaida. And how many top Al Quaida operatives have been killed IN IRAQ? Several, yet there is "no link between Iraq and Al Quaida." Right.

As far as Bush lying this is said because no weapons of mass destruction were found and there was no proof there were any.

I have my own theory about where the WMDs are (yes, I believe they were there - my opinion and I'm entitled to it) but because I have no proof, I will say no more about it, nor try to claim it as fact. I will say that there is no proof that there WEREN'T WMDs and leave it at that.

Also about the whole theory that the U.S. did it to free Iraq and protect us from further attacks then why not engage other countries who have the same atrocities done to civil rights as Iraq did like China? Well no China is a great business partner to the U.S therefore who cares about China's citizens? Also I believe before going to help other nations and act as the world's savior America has to solve it's problems first.

Again, it wasn't done to free Iraq per se. Bush tried to get Iraq to comply with the UN weapons inspectors, Iraq refused, Bush extended the deadline, Iraq still balked adding suspicion that there was something there, Bush extended it once more giving a firm date after which the US would launch a strike if Iraq didn't comply, Iraq didn't comply. There was reason to believe that there were WMDs. That was the reason for going in. BUT having gone in, common sense would say we had to stay until the country was liberated otherwise we'd be dealing with some OTHER dictator in Saddam's place trying to develop weapons of his own. Bush tried to be reasonable with Iraq. Did he or did he not extend the deadline for the UN weapons inspectors more than once? Did Saddam seem to do all he could to be a hindrance to the UN's efforts? Saddam's behavior only made it appear more certain that there was something there that he wanted to keep hidden (or at least stall until he could get rid of - part of my WMD theory). If Iraq had been developing WMDs and more advanced chemical weapons, and had been allowed to proceed unimpeded, do you kid yourself that at some point one or more of those wouldn't have been used against the US, either directly by Iraq or some Al Quaida regime that they sold them to?

And as far as I can tell, the reason Bush hasn't gone after any other countries is because he knows he'd never have the support from the government or a large portion of the American (and world) population and would probably be impeached. But I am willing to bet that in the next 10 years, between Iran and Syria, America is going to face some things that will have people saying "Man, we should have supported Bush. He wasn't a war-monger. He really WAS trying to protect this country." That is also a personal opinion and only time will tell. Believe me, I don't want to be right but I am also not so frightened of the thought od this country defending itself that I won't allow myself to see a very real threat looming.

 

[UltimateJustin]

I disagree with alot of what is being said. Linkin Park has many gold and even platinum hits. LP has their ear to the streets and understand the youth of today better than most bands. You shouldnt talk shxt about LP bedause they will prove you wrong with not just intelligent guitar riffs but also rap-influenced poetic lyrics that relate to life as a teen in the Bush era. Only a conservative would hate Linkin Park so much, why dont you go drink some illegal oil and celebrate Christmas. Also, there is alot of freedom of speech in the USA, that is pretty obvious by what our media puts out. So thats a stupid point, lets stick to the good points for bashing Bush, there are plenty.

 

[Spider - Man]

I disagree with alot of what is being said. Linkin Park has many gold and even platinum hits. LP has their ear to the streets and understand the youth of today better than most bands. You shouldnt talk shxt about LP bedause they will prove you wrong with not just intelligent guitar riffs but also rap-influenced poetic lyrics that relate to life as a teen in the Bush era. Only a conservative would hate Linkin Park so much, why dont you go drink some illegal oil and celebrate Christmas. Also, there is alot of freedom of speech in the USA, that is pretty obvious by what our media puts out. So thats a stupid point, lets stick to the good points for bashing Bush, there are plenty.

Well, I believe LP's guitar riffs are more intelligent than your post!

 

[venom892]

While Linkin park is my favorite band,I don't formulate my opinion based on their songs.The best way to form an opinion to me at least is to watch debates try to find the most unbiased news and read it and read up on a subject.only then will you have truly grasped things to formulate an opinion.

 

[Spider - Man]

While Linkin park is my favorite band,I don't formulate my opinion based on their songs.The best way to form an opinion to me at least is to watch debates try to find the most unbiased news and read it and read up on a subject.only then will you have truly grasped things to formulate an opinion.

The problem is SO many young people DO get their political views from musicians and actors like they're somehow more enlightened than the rest of us. No, they only have a bigger platform from which to speak. And they all tend to lean to the left. So...most of what young people hear is that Bush is evil, we should not be proud of our country, conservatives are to blame for global warming, and other such rhetoric.

I don't have a problem with someone having an intelligent position on an issue but it seems like all I hear from people who are on the left are the same exact 'phrases', like they're just regurgitating what they hear with no proof behind it, taking it on blind faith that it is the truth just because Ches Bennington says so!

Like I pointed out earlier, I only seem to hear part of the story coming from the libs. With Iraq, it's that Bush lied because no WMDs were found. No mention of the extension of the deadlines for the UN inspectors or Saddam being uncooperative despite Bush's promise of the consequences. Global warming is a reality...and it's the Republicans' fault! No mention of the actual EVIDENCE that indicates there is nothing anyone could have done nor could do to affect it, either positively or negatively, nor of the fact that most every one of the doomcryers (Gore, Kerry, etc) display such hypocracy between what they preach and what they do.

When all you listen to to base your political choice on are rock stars and movie stars, you don't make a choice. It is made for you.

 

[dodus]

Please...stop...

If I wanted to hear someone regurgitate right-wing talking points, I'd be watching Fox News. On the Spider-man forums, people talking about Spider-man.

 

[Eternalzero]

Nice talking points, it sounds like you got them directly from glenn beck, not even hannity but glenn beck. Clearly you werent paying attention over the last several years or else your eyes and ears are closed off to whats happening in this country. Bush lied. I'm seriously. Listen to the new Linkin Park even they know it now.

OMG really? Because that is JUST what I want to listen to when i'm driving in my car. How much life sucks, how incompetent leadership is in America, how 60% of America disapproves of Bush.

I love Linkin Park, but I HATE when bands go political, its like the cool thing to do and crap like this gets mentioned on a political debate. "Bush sucks, Linkin Park says so."

Please, go take your production money and your CD sales and start a campaign to rid the evil dictator. We are in a democracy, and last time I checked people say they don't approve of the administration but could give less of a crap to DO something about it.

in other words:

You Don't like BUSH? Then go do something about it, campaign, get involved. If so many people disapprove of him, where are the marches, and rallies?

...dammit, I am almost as mad as I was after I saw Spider-man 3.

 

[nogster]

geez...interesting posts here.....and in a spidey forum...wow....
i will just say one thing....
if there was no religion in the world....there would be a chance at world peace....ironic isnt it...
as for the flag in spidey 3. whats the big deal...it was in the 1st 2....i think what we should be annoyed at is how much a dissapointment it is for the trilogy to end with such a poorly constructed film. it was so dissapointing....definately not the finale i was expecting.

 

[Fried Gold]

Your country is being taken over by radical Islam without a shot being fired and these folks are in the streets yelling

So, what you're saying is, all the darkies should just shut up and go home? I disagree, by the way, but that's okay.

Nice try on your strenuous link between my joke with GRUNT95 about the aesthetics of the American flag, segueing into a debate regarding the ideals of radicalist Islamic groups. It didn't seemed forced at all.