Why all the hate over the flag shot?

[Miguel]

And I thought we had some crybabies over HERE!

If I were you, I'd go crawl back into grandmum's basement from embarrassment. I know I've gotten a bit bent out of shape on here (I tend to do that when people want to berate America because of the actions of some) but I've tried to stay as civil as possible.

You're seriously doing some crying of your own. And over stupid crap: it's a comic book movie and somebody's opinion about it. Big whoop.

The guy's got a valid point though. And obviously because this is Super Duper Important Stuff, you're getting borderline hostile with him on the internets. Talk about knowing when to pick a fight and when not.

And also, Man-E-Toys, yeah, I don't really care too much about flags period, so seeing one of another country would phase me as much as seeing my own. I wouldn't feel that unable to identify with a character only due to a flag or nationality. Or even language or skin color, really.

But for clarification, he isn't actually saying "all you Americans are selfish" though. The guy just means the general sentiment of Raimi and the way the flag pins Spider-man down to America, rather than opening the character up to the rest of the world. It's like stamping an American flag on Mickey Mouse's forehead and giving the plush doll to someone in Italy. Even if it's something that you know is from another nation, you still like to be able to internalize it as part of your own culture.

That's not so wrong. If you think it is, then you obviously need to find other things to get worked up about. Immediately.

 

[echostation]

there was no need for it... let it for a Superman film... but it's silly and stupid to have it so over the top done in this film and I'm proud to be an american...

 

[phillyboy]

I'm an american who lives in New Zealand & the truth is the world hates us. I never gotten a straight answer why....Bush, mcdonalds, gun laws, pretty much whatever is the flavor of the month.

Hell, I've had idoits tell me I'm the reason the world is so screwed up, with all the wars & pollution I've caused. So please keep you're distance, I could blow at any given moment, cause from what I've been told I've murdered millions of inocent people (must've done it in my sleep, cause I cant remember hurtin anyone).

But to get back on topic, whenever I see a flag in a flic its never bothered me. Sure most times it cheesy, but I kinda like my movies with a light sprinkling of cheese (adds flavor).

I agree with the first post, I think it is cool these days to hate america (I know it is over here).

 

[Miguel]

I'm an american who lives in New Zealand & the truth is the world hates us. I never gotten a straight answer why....Bush, mcdonalds, gun laws, pretty much whatever is the flavor of the month.

Hell, I've had idoits tell me I'm the reason the world is so screwed up, with all the wars & pollution I've caused.

I agree with the first post, I think it is cool these days to hate america (I know it is over here).

This is the estimate I get from friends who've lived abroad for a while - if it isn't outright mistreatment, then it's at least being looked at in a very different light for the fact alone.

It isn't that way everywhere, or with every person from a nation that will tend toward anti-American behavior and mindsets, but it's true enough to make you realize: You -have- to watch your back.

And if you're (not you, phillyboy, just people in general) lucky enough not to be treated with violence, then knowing what to expect in terms of prejudice alone is wise. Whatever the reasons (earned, unearned), we've gotten the ire of many populaces.

 

[vegeta21]

relax blowhard. youre sarcasm sucks.

Whatever you say, sunshine.

 

[Spider - Man]

You're seriously doing some crying of your own. And over stupid crap: it's a comic book movie and somebody's opinion about it. Big whoop.

The guy's got a valid point though. And obviously because this is Super Duper Important Stuff, you're getting borderline hostile with him on the internets. Talk about knowing when to pick a fight and when not.

And also, Man-E-Toys, yeah, I don't really care too much about flags period, so seeing one of another country would phase me as much as seeing my own. I wouldn't feel that unable to identify with a character only due to a flag or nationality. Or even language or skin color, really.

But for clarification, he isn't actually saying "all you Americans are selfish" though. The guy just means the general sentiment of Raimi and the way the flag pins Spider-man down to America, rather than opening the character up to the rest of the world. It's like stamping an American flag on Mickey Mouse's forehead and giving the plush doll to someone in Italy. Even if it's something that you know is from another nation, you still like to be able to internalize it as part of your own culture.

That's not so wrong. If you think it is, then you obviously need to find other things to get worked up about. Immediately.

"On the internets"..that's funny. Well, Miguel, I don't personally find it stupid to defend my country's flag. THAT'S what I'm getting borderline hostile about (since it seems I have to spell it out for you), not the stupid movie.

This country is the most hated country in the world,and yet, America is always the first to step up when somebody needs help. And then gets accused of trying to police the world. We're always the first ones CALLED on for help, and then the first ones blamed when people aren't happy with the way things go. Americans GAVE the world Spider-Man, but Heaven forbid if anyone actually LABELS him an American. Why, that's just rubbing it in the rest of the world's face! And thank you for being buttman's personal interpretter and letting me know that "you all" actually means "Raimi". What a leap! His rant suddenly makes sense to me.

So whoever wants to, go ahead and keep on crying about it, hating that Spidey IS American, and understand that the next one will almost surely have another "Spidey in front of Old Glory" shot (hopefully not cg so it CAN'T be removed) for you to complain about.

 

[Crowforge]

Being English, I honestly felt left-out by that shot. It felt like the film-makers were trying to say to the rest of the world "He's OUR hero, not yours." Why didn't he swing past the UN flag? Hell, why did he swing past a flag at all? Why must you all be so selfish with a character you had no involvement in creating, instead of sharing him with the rest of the world?

You do know we make these movies for ourselves? It an american movie of a american character made up by americans and the movie was directed by an american. Swinging past the UN flag would make even less sense.

 

[Miguel]

So whoever wants to, go ahead and keep on crying about it, hating that Spidey IS American, and understand that the next one will almost surely have another "Spidey in front of Old Glory" shot (hopefully not cg so it CAN'T be removed) for you to complain about.

I insist again that no one exactly hates that the character is American-imagined or that the movie had a flag in it (like I said, I understand a Europeans/anyone else's minor complaint about emphasizing Parker's American status via the massive flag shot, even though nation-identification ain't a big deal to me and thus I wouldn't care much if that were UK or Canadian turf Parker grew up on).

The flag is fine fine fine, and like wine no less. A ton of other people said it already: it just was a cheesy shot. They may as well have had Spidey pause, put his fists on his hips, and tilt his chin up toward the sky. Maybe save a child falling out of the clouds while he was at it, and they both could give a big thumbs up to the camera before he rushes off to the final battle.

Stick a flag instead in the Gwen key to the city ceremony scene, for these reasons:

1) It totally would have had no cheese-factor
2) It would have been super appropriate (seriously, a local governmental ceremony and the national flag? for sure)
3) It'd probably even enhance the scene a bit.

I guess anyone can play the "it's an opinion card" to contest it, but good film-making involves subtlety in a lot of ways. Having reporters emphasize to us how "close to doom" Spider-man is totally kills the impression that we ought see for ourselves while Sandman's hammering on Parker, the same goes for use of a flag.

 

[Nathan]

Any again for everyone who still thinks that there must some anti-america sentiment behind not liking the flag shot, ask yourself one simple question.

Why did no one complain about the flag shot in Spider-Man 1's final swing?

 

[Miguel]

Man, that's how I felt about that scene too, but didn#t really know how to express it. As if it's not obvious enough, he has to whack us with the flag over the head so that even the dumbest person gets the hint that Peter came around again.

haha, yeah sometimes it's hard to put impressions to words. I just thought it and the emo-hair were so silly to emphasize that way. Audiences aren't always observant, but uh... come on. =P

Swinging past the UN flag would make even less sense.

I agree, it really wouldn't have. It definitely is an American-audience intended movie series.

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

I guess here in California where there are a bunch of Mexicans they can't relate to the flag and prefer their taquitos and Condorito's.


HOMBRE ARANA ES MUY MACHO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sun_Down]

This country is the most hated country in the world,and yet, America is always the first to step up when somebody needs help. And then gets accused of trying to police the world. We're always the first ones CALLED on for help, and then the first ones blamed when people aren't happy with the way things go. Americans GAVE the world Spider-Man, but Heaven forbid if anyone actually LABELS him an American. Why, that's just rubbing it in the rest of the world's face! And thank you for being buttman's personal interpretter and letting me know that "you all" actually means "Raimi". What a leap! His rant suddenly makes sense to me.

So whoever wants to, go ahead and keep on crying about it, hating that Spidey IS American, and understand that the next one will almost surely have another "Spidey in front of Old Glory" shot (hopefully not cg so it CAN'T be removed) for you to complain about.

You're making WAY too big a deal about this and creating an issue that is not there. The scene was corny and in poor taste. It could have been done in front of any nations flag and that would be true. And don't respond with "Oh, is patriotism in poor taste?" because that's not what I said. It was gratuitous pandering shot thrown in where it didn't belong. End of story.

 

[Spider - Man]

If the director knows that a certain shot may cause umbrage amongst a large portion of the demographic, then there's obviously a problem with the shot.

Well, let's make sure we're talking about the same thing: if by umbrage you mean because of the cheesiness, well, that's Raimi. If you mean 'umbrage' as 'pissing off the rest of the world', it probably never occured to him that it WOULD make some rediculous people like you upset, just as I never thought anything about it until I read this thread. If 'a large portion of the demographic took umbrage' they sure have a funny way of showing it - by making SM3 the biggest opening movie of all time. "Take that, Sam Raimi!" Like I said earlier, some people will take ANY opportunity to sling mud at America even for the crime of linking one of it's greatest fictional heroes with it's own flag. So say what you want to, when you speak of 'the rest of the world', you're really speaking of yourself. It comes thru very clearly. You obviously have a problem with America, and I guess if your outlet is to complain of a comic book movie internet forum, have at it. Here's a tissue.

You are aware that Bond isn't real, right?

*sigh* are YOU aware that Spider-Man isn't either?

Oh do grow up.

Hey, YOU're the one using a double standard. Seems like you want to give a pass to the fictional hero of YOUR country but not Spider-Man. I had just explained to you why Bond was being gratuitously linked to the Brittish flag so you tell me why that's ok but NOT ok to do the same with Spider-Man. AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CHESSINESS so don't run back to that.

Must you take everything at face value? It's common knowledge that Stan Lee created Spider-Man as a character that most kids could identify with, be they black, white, English, American etc

If you think that when Stan Lee created Spider-Man, he was thinking "I want to make sure that this character won't offend people with his 'Americaness'" or even "I hope that little English kids will feel as much identity with Spider-Man as American kids do", you are truly deluded. Stan Lee is the most shameless huckster alive, and I love him for it, but you can't take ANYTHING he says seriously. He has changed details of his creation of Spider-Man numerous times. He just says whatever is popular to say at the time to improve sales. Just like with X-men - he actually created them out of laziness, realizing that with a team of heroes who were born with their powers, he didn't have to think up origins for them. Only later when he realized that he could associate them being mutants with prejudice did he start saying "Oh, I created them to be an allegory for racism/bigotry/whatever." About Spider-Man, he 'created' him to be one of the characters in the last issue of a failing series. NOT so that one day, every kid in the world could identify with him. He was totally shocked when, months later, the sales figures came in on AF15. To him, Spidey was just another toss-away character that no one would remember just like hundreds of others before him. He didn't expect ANYONE to 'identify' with him so go get your money back for the bogus info somebody sold you.

The Bond analogy is growing tired, and is more suited in a Captain America discussion, a character whose 'American'ness' I have no issues with, as that's the character.

I'm sure it is as it blows holes all thru the logic of your gripe. You'd have the same problem with Captain America because it's clear you have some beef with America. Like some of the posters said earlier, it's cool to hate America so you're not alone. So deal with it in whatever way is best for you but realize that Spider-Man will always be linked with America, NY specifically, and will be shown again in front of an American flag (I'm just trying to preopare you for the shock!) and whether it looks cheesy or not, there will always be people like you and buttman and Miguel who find it innappropriate because it could offend someone.

 

[Naite22]

The movie was too ambitious at trying to be epic, and failed in some erea's because of that. The british reporter with her cheasy dialogue, and that fake CG flag was among those ambitious failing attemps. That beeing said, it's STILL the only one that achieves the epic feel in places.

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

Well the reason why I hate the scene is because I just plain hate Flags and I also hate America so there I said it.

 

[amazingdm]

Well the reason why I hate the scene is because I just plain hate Flags and I also hate America so there I said it.

why would you hate america?

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

why would you hate america?

clearly you missed my witty sarcasm.

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

I am literally shocked at how bit this thread is I mean 10 pages???

Over what?

A two second scene of a fictional childrens character jumping on a building in downtown America which shockingly has an Americna flag on it???

Most downtown buildings in American cities have an American flag on them.

Last I checked Spider-Man is an American unless he crossed the border from Canada which I doubt.

So why is this thread 10 pages long about A Country, It's Flag, and IT'S FICTIONAL HERO?

This is like people arguing over why that giant Coke-Cola sign Superman flew into in Superman 2 wasn't a Pepsi sign instead. Or why the sign was even there to begin with.

I mean it's really insane of you people, I recomend you all go out and get laid as soon as possible...Trust Me!

After some hot, sweaty sex you will all forget about little spiderman and his two seconds standing on a building with its nations flag.

now get going, go get laid and don't forget to thank me when you're smoking a cigarette in the afterglow.

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

It's not the flag, you spanner, it's the shot and the context surrounding it, something which 'Spider - Man' (with spaces before and after the hypen because someone else already took the name and he lacks the imagination to think of a new one...) clearly fails to understand and has somehow took any reservations about it to mean that we all hate America, which is clearly nonsense.

I don't know what a bloody spanner is mate.

Ok tell me this fried guy, CONTEXT SURRONDING???? WHAT?

2 SECONDS OF A FLAG? BEING DISPLAYED?

The scene is short I couldn't even blink before this great flag was over. I think you're creating your own context.

NEXT YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME VENOM SOMEHOW SYMBOLIZES IRAQ! RIGHT? OR HOW SANDMAN IS REPRESENTING OSAMA BIN-LADEN....just some poor mis understood soul! Right?

It's just a freakin flag get over it.

lmfao t:

 

[Naite22]

^ Yes, it's a short image of spidey in front of the US flag, so why be bothered by it? Because it's so obvious what it's there for, and it's too much... and if people shouldn't biatch over that, then they shouldn't biatch over a CG image in a fight, which is there for like a split second either!

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

I think you are confusing a 'scene' with a 'shot'.

lol I must be really confused because that is a picture of a Cresent Wrench sometimes referred to as a Adjustable Wrench. A Spanner Wrench is something completely different that is used to tighten say fire hoses to piping. Fire Fighters and Naval people use Spanner Wrenches a lot to tighten the couplings of hoses.

But I Digress.

Back to crazy spidey talk, Maybe I didn't read through all 10 pages of this thread but I don't get the arguing that you guys have over this scene atleast pertaining to the american flag but if its about the entire final battle royale then I apologize for not getting why everyones *****in.

t:

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

So, what... you were lying when you said that you didn't know what a spanner was?

No I can not tell a lie, I just didn't know in which CONTEXT you were using the word. I'm not familiar with chat room leet speak or slang so I wasn't sure what you were implying.

I read different things on a board and sometimes they have different meanings. I've noticed CONTEXT is a huge factor in our conversation. lol

So Fried, can you tell me why you really hate the american flag scene?

What if it was a British Flag would you feel the same?

Or do you just hate flags in general and just want them all to be removed?

I do think it would have been cool to have an Anarchist Flag in there instead though. t:

 

[CGHulk]

There was a Spiderman TV commercial on last night, here in Southern California, and the American flag scene was in the commercial, but the flag was completely removed, weird huh!

 

[Papa Burgundy]

also, you gotta understand that when the american flag was in spider-man 1 , 9/11 was still in everyones minds (the twin towers are even reflected in spideys eye, shows you how recent it really was huh). so alot of people liked the fact that it was in there because of that, and the fact that whole last web swinging scene was the perfect ending to the movie. its not like they were just trying to throw it in non american peoples face. it was a tough time, and seeing that flag on screen like that was just really cool and a great tribute.

 

[Spider - Man]

It's not the flag, you spanner, it's the shot and the context surrounding it, something which 'Spider - Man' (with spaces before and after the hypen because someone else already took the name and he lacks the imagination to think of a new one...) clearly fails to understand and has somehow took any reservations about it to mean that we all hate America, which is clearly nonsense, so it's no surprise that I'm taking the time out to defend myself against what is essentially slander.

Yes, gosh, I wish I had had enough imagination to come up with a great name like 'fried gold' but anyway.

You need to make up your mind, one minute you're upset because you say the flag shot itself is out of place, another moment it is the 'cheesiness' of the shot, and yet others it is the fact that the very presence of the flag is offensive to some (i.e.: you). Your constantly changing tacks only sheds more light on the thruth which is, as I have said before, your real problem is with America and anything that repersents it. You happen to like Spider-Man but resent that he IS American because you don't like America. You say you have no issues with Cap's American-ness indicating that you DO have a problem with Spidey's American-ness. BUT Spidey's American-ness is there whether he poses in front of the flag or not. But I guess it's easier for those like you to remain in denial of the fact as long as you don't have to see him posing in front of the Stars and Stripes.

As to your earlier post, my being 'upset' has to do with my percieved attack by you on the American flag. I guess a better choice of word for you would have been 'bitter'.

"never would have occured to him that it WOULD make some rediculous people like you [bitter]"

There, is that clearer for you, nitpicker?

And by the way, as JJ said in SM1, it's not slander, in print it's libel.

Oh and Carnage Cometh, they have completely different words for stuff over there. Boot for trunk (of car), biscuit for cookie, and so forth. One I'm sure fried gold has heard every day of his life: wanker.