Why Are So Many People Fearing The Trilogy Curse??

P.S. Kurt Wimmer is a terrible director. Fanboys love him for some unknown reason. Equilibrium was an average pretty movie that was visually cool but also HIGHLY derivative, unoriginal and rushed. And Ultraviolet was the same movie warmed over and may also be such a downgrade in qualit, I'd call it a contender for the top 250 worst movies ever made.

Why let him direct, then?
 
Both Fincher and Cameron two big name directors were shafted to direct Spiderman originally, given that Cameron wasn't able to direct due to a law suit.
 
P.S. Kurt Wimmer is a terrible director. Fanboys love him for some unknown reason. Equilibrium was an average pretty movie that was visually cool but also HIGHLY derivative, unoriginal and rushed. And Ultraviolet was the same movie warmed over and may also be such a downgrade in qualit, I'd call it a contender for the top 250 worst movies ever made.

Why let him direct, then?

For a first movie Equilibrium was finely directed, staged and thought out. Ultraviolet Wimmer was forced out of the directors chair so what you saw on screen wasn't his vision, so tell me how you've come to the conclusion that he's a terrible director, who isn't nearly competent enough to direct a spiderman movie, yet Raimi who forgetting the Evil Dead franchise hadn't done anything remotely memorable or worthy that would warrant him to be given a large franchise (apart from get Katie Holmes **** out)
 
yet Raimi who forgetting the Evil Dead franchise hadn't done anything remotely memorable or worthy that would warrant him to be given a large franchise (apart from get Katie Holmes **** out)

Well he did direct A Simple Plan, which was critically acclaimed when it was released and garnered a pair of significant Oscar nominations.
 
If I recall hardly any of that acclaim was directed towards Rami, more so for the script and acting. Anyway I doubt Sony decided Raimi was the right choice due to his work on A Simple Plan. Rarely a director is chosen based on his previous films, but based on his pitch and angle to how he wants to take the movie. If that excites the studio than they are likely to lean towards him
 
IMO, a Superhero film is excellent most of the time if the director has a good understanding of the character and what he's about. Sam Raimi has had a very big understanding of Peter Parker/Spider-man since he was a kid which is why the film's were good. now I'm not nessecarily saying that a Director can't do a superhero/Comic Book film and make it good because they never read the Comic's. but what I am saying is that a Director who is more familiar with the Character befor hand then the film would most likley be a highly succesful film without any bump's or any bad thing's in them.

so the thing that Sam Raimi did that made the Spidey film's so amazing was that he incorporated his and us fan's favorite thing's from the comic's and translated them onto the big screen but changed them around a little bit.

nothing that can harm the franchise or anything like that, most superhero film's change thing's around but still stay as close as they can without completley redoing what has been done befor in the Comic's but the only difference and probably the biggest difference of all is that it's being transfered onto film.

I think that's a route that Sam should not 100% take. mostly because if Sam add's his own interpetation of say, the Character's Villian's and storyline is fine but the element's and the most important element's of the storyline for the Character's shouldn't and thankfully have not been completley changed. beside's Sandman though but that was nessicary. so that is why Sam should stay as director for these film's.
 
IMO, a Superhero film is excellent most of the time if the director has a good understanding of the character and what he's about.

The script is and will always be the primary reason for what makes or breakes a movie, everything else including the directing comes second.

Sam Raimi has had a very big understanding of Peter Parker/Spider-man since he was a kid which is why the film's were good.

The films were so good? Moot. I personally think sm1 and 2 were mediocre at the very best. I havn't seen any evidence that supports Raimi has a very big understanding of Peter/spidey. The PP we've seen so far is still characteristically written as though he's still in his pre-spider-bite days. Raimi needs to and should have enforced variety in PP's character. Even in the early comics, Stan wrote PP as being quite spiteful towards people. He was written with real human emotion and characteristics that are lacking in the movies, which is actually quite odd. The PP of the movies is quite hard to identify with because his character is ironically more 2d than his comic book counter part.
As for spider-man, his biggest weapon (the quips) has been subdued because sony can't find anyone clever enough and capable to write spider-man with quips in tow properly. Now, I'm not saying I want to hear spidey make quips every freakin second but what I want is or what should happen is, for spidey to be written properly which includes well placed voice overs. Many movies and TV series do it. Look at Goodfellas, a brilliant movie that handled the VOs brilliantly. The quips should be well placed, tasteful and somewhat maturely witty......it can be done but isn't because like I said, they cant find anyone smart enough to handle it.

now I'm not nessecarily saying that a Director can't do a superhero/Comic Book film and make it good because they never read the Comic's. but what I am saying is that a Director who is more familiar with the Character befor hand then the film would most likley be a highly succesful film without any bump's or any bad thing's in them.

That is still just a matter of opinion. Tmags, although familiar with the spider-man character never read a spidey comic in his life prior to being cast yet some people think he's a brilliant PP. Just because one may know the material it doesn't mean success is guaranteed or will be more successful than someone's film who isn't as familiar with the source material. It's a matter of skill, execution, the quality of the script and how well the cast and crew are in their craft.

so the thing that Sam Raimi did that made the Spidey film's so amazing was that he incorporated his and us fan's favorite thing's from the comic's and translated them onto the big screen but changed them around a little bit.

I agree that some changes are/were good but in no way, imo are the spidey movies thus far amazing.

nothing that can harm the franchise or anything like that, most superhero film's change thing's around but still stay as close as they can without completley redoing what has been done befor in the Comic's but the only difference and probably the biggest difference of all is that it's being transfered onto film.

...and that is a very big difference because, material is being crammed into, on avaerage, a 2hr movie. In that space of time substantial changes are made (not to everyone's delight) and the studio will want to enforce the traditional cliche formula of movie making. What annoys me is, that studios and in this case, sony act like they're ashamed of the fact that these movies are based on fantasy and scifi. Why is it a problem for a guy with spider-powers to create mechanical web shooters? Who cares how he knows how to make them? who cares where his costume came from? At the end of the day, it's all part of mystery and the element of fantasy. Spidey has been a popculture-icon for over 4 decades, we all know what to expect. These are things the studio and those involved need to realise and stop underestimating the audience.

I think that's a route that Sam should not 100% take. mostly because if Sam add's his own interpetation of say, the Character's Villian's and storyline is fine but the element's and the most important element's of the storyline for the Character's shouldn't and thankfully have not been completley changed. beside's Sandman though but that was nessicary. so that is why Sam should stay as director for these film's.

That's a silly reason for Sam to stay on as director. In fact, it's an insult to the craftmanship of other directors. Other directors can make changes and keep things the same and could possibly do a much better job that Raimi but this may never be realised until the movies get new blood involved with these movies. It's like saying Stan is the only person that could write spidey and everyone else couldn't possibly do it BUT we all know that's a load of bs. Change is inevitable and can sometimes be a good thing but until it happens, we'll never know.
The good thing about the spidey movies is that, seeing as its a $billion franchise, the studio, should they decide to get a new cast and crew will likely be thorough in their search to find people capable enough and hopefully better than Raimi and co.
 
The script is and will always be the primary reason for what makes or breakes a movie, everything else including the directing comes second.



The films were so good? Moot. I personally think sm1 and 2 were mediocre at the very best. I havn't seen any evidence that supports Raimi has a very big understanding of Peter/spidey. The PP we've seen so far is still characteristically written as though he's still in his pre-spider-bite days. Raimi needs to and should have enforced variety in PP's character. Even in the early comics, Stan wrote PP as being quite spiteful towards people. He was written with real human emotion and characteristics that are lacking in the movies, which is actually quite odd. The PP of the movies is quite hard to identify with because his character is ironically more 2d than his comic book counter part.
As for spider-man, his biggest weapon (the quips) has been subdued because sony can't find anyone clever enough and capable to write spider-man with quips in tow properly. Now, I'm not saying I want to hear spidey make quips every freakin second but what I want is or what should happen is, for spidey to be written properly which includes well placed voice overs. Many movies and TV series do it. Look at Goodfellas, a brilliant movie that handled the VOs brilliantly. The quips should be well placed, tasteful and somewhat maturely witty......it can be done but isn't because like I said, they cant find anyone smart enough to handle it.
they were defenitley NOT medicore. and to be honest, Peter Parker of the film's in not hard to identify with because when the first and second film came out I could identify with the character because I was a nerd in school and still am today. if you look at the Peter Parker of the film's and the Peter parker of the comic's then you will kind of see a resemblance in term's of acting and getting bullied by people such as Flash. I look at Spider-man and I see a great Comic Book style/fashion. and to be specific when he's web-swinging and now in spidey3 he is going to make alot of joke's just like we have heard in the recent TVspot so there's a good comic counter part moment because in the Comic's Spidey was alway's making funny joke's, etc.
 
they were defenitley NOT medicore.

You say that like it's not subjective :o

and to be honest, Peter Parker of the film's in not hard to identify with because when the first and second film came out I could identify with the character because I was a nerd in school and still am today.

Imo he is because all he does is emote the same expressions and feelings all the time. There's no variety in his character and from day 1 in the comics, Stan gave him variety in the stories he wrote and thats why comic spidey was identifiable because he had real human characteristics. Like I said, movie PP imo is more sd than his comic book counterpart.

if you look at the Peter Parker of the film's and the Peter parker of the comic's then you will kind of see a resemblance in term's of acting and getting bullied by people such as Flash.

Yeah but Peter wasn't always getting bullied, I mean come on the guy's in college in these movies now, where's the confidence, where's the ability to stand up to himself, in fact in the comics he was holding his own and had a mouth on him in feakin high school. Where's the evidence of such normal and human characteristics in the films? I'l tell you, nowhere :o

I look at Spider-man and I see a great Comic Book style/fashion. and to be specific when he's web-swinging and now in spidey3 he is going to make alot of joke's just like we have heard in the recent TVspot so there's a good comic counter part moment because in the Comic's Spidey was alway's making funny joke's, etc.

Even his web-slinging imo is half-assed. These movies have him shooting webs and swinging from the same hand. The dude has 2 freakin arms he uses to swing from, they rarely show this. Aas for the jokes, how do you know there's going to be alot of jokes? He's made about 2 quips in the footages we've seen and that automatically means there's going to be alot of jokes? I don't think so but we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Imo he is because all he does is emote the same expressions and feelings all the time. There's no variety in his character and from day 1 in the comics, Stan gave him variety in the stories he wrote and thats why comic spidey was identifiable because he had real human characteristics. Like I said, movie PP imo is more sd than his comic book counterpart.


Yeah but Peter wasn't always getting bullied, I mean come on the guy's in college in these movies now, where's the confidence, where's the ability to stand up to himself, in fact in the comics he was holding his own and had a mouth on him in feakin high school. Where's the evidence of such normal and human characteristics in the films? I'l tell you, nowhere :o



Even his web-slinging imo is half-assed. These movies have him shooting webs and swinging from the same hand. The dude has 2 freakin arms he uses to swing from, they rarely show this. Aas for the jokes, how do you know there's going to be alot of jokes? He's made about 2 quips in the footages we've seen and that automatically means there's going to be alot of jokes? I don't think so but we'll just have to wait and see.
emote the Same expression's? I disagree, in this film we are going to see a change in Peter from the beginning of the film and until he get's the symbiote. not to mention that, that's one of the thing's Sam wanted to change and personally I don't mind that he did. now nobody has bullied him in the film's since Spidey1. but now Eddie Brock is bullying peter, but notice how under the influence of the Symbiote peter slam's Brock against the wall? and I really don't think it's nessicary for him to stand up to Brock befor he get's the Symbiote for the Simple fact that Eddie Brock will get punished for what he's doing. I mean he stand's up to the Landlord, which is something he was not able to do in the second film.
The Web-swinging look's so real!. to be honest, nobody should be complaining about the Web-swinging because there obviously nothing wrong with it. it's epic, it feel's like I'm soaring through the city with Spidey. how do I know he will have more jokes? easy answer, Grant Curtis said it and as I mentioned in my last post it was in the TV spot.
 
emote the Same expression's?

Yes, in the past 2 movies he has and I'm willing to bet its going to be that way in sm3 up untill he gets the symbiot.:o

I disagree, in this film we are going to see a change in Peter from the beginning of the film and until he get's the symbiote. not to mention that, that's one of the thing's Sam wanted to change and personally I don't mind that he did.

Well, I wasn't initially talking about sm3, I was talking about the previous movies and Sam wanting to change his character isn't something he should have waited for the 3rd movie to do. Peter Parker is an emotional diverse character, something that's real and was established in Amazing freakin' fantasy#15.

now nobody has bullied him in the film's since Spidey1.

Peter's been pretty much walked all over throughout the entire run of sm2 to the point the whole thing just became a pathetic joke.

but now Eddie Brock is bullying peter,

Is he? I'm not aware of this.

but notice how under the influence of the Symbiote peter slam's Brock against the wall? and I really don't think it's nessicary for him to stand up to Brock befor he get's the Symbiote for the Simple fact that Eddie Brock will get punished for what he's doing.

That's a silly reason for Peter not standing up for himself prior to getting the symbiot. Peter even before he was bitten was always a cocky, sarcastic, smart-mouth. If Raimi realised this from sm1, Peter's character in the movies would have more depth.

I mean he stand's up to the Landlord, which is something he was not able to do in the second film.

Big whoop. Peter stands upto the landlord :whatever:

The Web-swinging look's so real!. to be honest, nobody should be complaining about the Web-swinging because there obviously nothing wrong with it. it's epic, it feel's like I'm soaring through the city with Spidey. how do I know he will have more jokes? easy answer, Grant Curtis said it and as I mentioned in my last post it was in the TV spot.

The web-slinging imo rarely looks great but it appears the effects guys have stepped up their game for sm3.
 
Yes, in the past 2 movies he has and I'm willing to bet its going to be that way in sm3 up untill he gets the symbiot.:o



Well, I wasn't initially talking about sm3, I was talking about the previous movies and Sam wanting to change his character isn't something he should have waited for the 3rd movie to do. Peter Parker is an emotional diverse character, something that's real and was established in Amazing freakin' fantasy#15.



Peter's been pretty much walked all over throughout the entire run of sm2 to the point the whole thing just became a pathetic joke.



Is he? I'm not aware of this.



That's a silly reason for Peter not standing up for himself prior to getting the symbiot. Peter even before he was bitten was always a cocky, sarcastic, smart-mouth. If Raimi realised this from sm1, Peter's character in the movies would have more depth.



Big whoop. Peter stands upto the landlord :whatever:



The web-slinging imo rarely looks great but it appears the effects guys have stepped up their game for sm3.
Actually it is something that he made the right choice to do. specificly because in the first film Peter Parker was just a troubled kid who was an overage ordinary guy who happen's to get bitten by a radioactive spider and get's amazing power's. so he had to learn that with Great Power Come's Great Responsibility which is the moral of spidey1. in the second film Peter was having trouble being spider-man so he was not a happy guy, MJ lost trust in him and Harry is still suffering over the death of Norman.

so at the end of Spidey2 he is with MJ and now he is feeling good about himself and is very confident. now doesn't that make sense for him to be confident in Spidey3 now that he has everything he wanted? I really think so.

In Amazing Fantasy #15, Peter Parker was very emotinal and I understand he was because I know all about the Comic's. but just remember that thing's in the sequal's will have to be changed if Sam had changed Peter's confidence from the third film and put it in the first film. but I seriously like the route Sam is taking with Peter Parker's story.

Peter Parker abswoloutley has depth in the film even though he isn't exactly like his Comic Counter part but he's not far from it.

The Web-Swinging will defenitley look awesome in Spidey3 but the Web-Swinging in SM1 and SM2 looked awesome as well so I do disagree with you on the Web-swinging looking rarley great.
 
Peter's been pretty much walked all over throughout the entire run of sm2 to the point the whole thing just became a pathetic joke.

Part of the reason Peter doesn't stand up to anyone in Spider-Man 2 is because he's not really in the position to. Jameson could fire him. Mr. Aziz could fire him - and did. His Landlord could evict him. The Usher could have him kicked out of the theater. Dr. Connors could fail him. So, unless he wanted to get in a fight and risk revealing his Spider-powers, he's pretty much gotta take the abuse. Otherwise he would've ended up in a worse position than he already was.
 
Part of the reason Peter doesn't stand up to anyone in Spider-Man 2 is because he's not really in the position to. Jameson could fire him. Mr. Aziz could fire him - and did. His Landlord could evict him. The Usher could have him kicked out of the theater. Dr. Connors could fail him. So, unless he wanted to get in a fight and risk revealing his Spider-powers, he's pretty much gotta take the abuse. Otherwise he would've ended up in a worse position than he already was.
very good point. not to mention that when Peter get's the symbiote, he change's and start's yelling st people who treated him bad like the Landlord.
 
Part of the reason Peter doesn't stand up to anyone in Spider-Man 2 is because he's not really in the position to. Jameson could fire him. Mr. Aziz could fire him - and did. His Landlord could evict him. The Usher could have him kicked out of the theater. Dr. Connors could fail him. So, unless he wanted to get in a fight and risk revealing his Spider-powers, he's pretty much gotta take the abuse. Otherwise he would've ended up in a worse position than he already was.

Thats still no excuse for letting people walk all over him. No matter what his situation is, he should have been given the dignity to plead and simultaneously show his anger and frustration on the respective matters. Jameson's matter is the easiest because spider-man is what sells his papers, Peter could have easily told JJ to get lost and that he'll sell the pics to a rival newspaper.
Secondly, wtf is Pete working as a pizza boy for? Anyway, by how many measily minutes was peter late delivering that pizza? The peter I know and this is from the early comics would have argued his case as to why the woman should just pay up and stop being a f'n cheapskate. Hell, Peter could have had a watch on that would have shown the time at an o'clock hour which would be different from the real time by...what...2-3mins.
Thirdly, at the end of sm2 we see that Peter has a huge feakin balcony that he's able to swing in and out from. If he's trying to avoid running into the landlord, why take the damn stairs? Who ever wrote spider-man 2 needs a slap.
 
The PP of the movies is quite hard to identify with because his character is ironically more 2d than his comic book counter part.
As for spider-man, his biggest weapon (the quips) has been subdued because sony can't find anyone clever enough and capable to write spider-man with quips in tow properly. Now, I'm not saying I want to hear spidey make quips every freakin second but what I want is or what should happen is, for spidey to be written properly which includes well placed voice overs. Many movies and TV series do it. Look at Goodfellas, a brilliant movie that handled the VOs brilliantly. The quips should be well placed, tasteful and somewhat maturely witty......it can be done but isn't because like I said, they cant find anyone smart enough to handle it.

I disagree on your view of Raimi, but I can't help but agree with this. Maguire's line delivery and the film franchise's lack of a comfortable Spider-Man has made Spidey out to be this working stiff rather than the 19 year old kid the films place him to be. Peter should come across like a kid who hadn't quite grown into his boots yet. Spider-Man should reflect this, and with the right placement the lines can come off well in transition to both. There's one whole line in SM3 I've seen from the available footage where he sounds comfortable, and they only played it on Nickelodeon (web availability non-withstanding).

Another thing is how Spider-Man isn't nearly as ingenuitive as he was in the TAS or the books themselves. They've never really given him the chance to come across as intelligent. For Peter, sure- they did that in both films. But that was very mild in application. For Spider-Man he's lacking personality. Having read David's SM2 novellization I wish in retrospect that they would have used Jack All, if only to show the contrast between Puny Parker and 'The Human Spider'. Stan Lee had Peter inventing acidic webbing, spider-tracers and all sorts of things to make up for his lack of overwhelming strength amongst the heavier hitters in Marvel. In the movies the most we see is some good webbing application. A good attempt, but not quite the brilliant kid in a suit who took down the Rhino with the help of a supporting cast (who, oddly enough, are now just as neglected in the books as Peter's inventions are in the movies).

If there is a SM4 I hope they make use of the plethora of possibility a three-dimensional Spider-Man can give.
 
Yeah, I'm feelin' what your saying Chibs. When it comes down to it, there's just a complete lack of personality...and whether people like it or not, spider-man is mr.personality.
 
The issue with it is they have a 30 year old playing a kid. Parker, geek or not was still cocky, naive and arrogant, the spider abilities gave him the confidence for this. Tmag's is playing a young adult not a kid.
 
...a young adult with an absent personality.
 

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