Why CGI?

[Kirmit]

ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLRIGHTY then....I'm glad it looks real to somebody.

Looks real to alot of people actually, strange isn't it that peoples opinions differ from yours .

 

[Hmarrs]

Looks real to alot of people actually, strange isn't it that peoples opinions differ from yours .

That's cool that's why there called opinions not facts.

 

[Kirmit]

That's cool that's why there called opinions not facts.

I agree but when I expressed an opinion you replied with a sarcastic response asif your opinion was fact.

 

[shapeshifter]

So is this a CG discussion or a hulk discussion? Hulk seems to be the star of this show.
Any other cg vs real that you guys want to talk about?
How about how Star Wars became a CG hog and dropped the costumes and puppets that I loved so much from the first trilogy.

 

[Kirmit]

IF we're talking about other cgi aswell I have to say people use LOTR's Gollum as the benchmark to compare all other cgi characters to but imo I never thought the cgi was that great and believable.

 

[IRON_Lad]

IF we're talking about other cgi aswell I have to say people use LOTR's Gollum as the benchmark to compare all other cgi characters to but imo I never thought the cgi was that great and believable.

 

[shapeshifter]

IF we're talking about other cgi aswell I have to say people use LOTR's Gollum as the benchmark to compare all other cgi characters to but imo I never thought the cgi was that great and believable.

they did set the bar pretty high on that one. it was the one case where I forgot that I was looking at a computer generated character.

 

[Kirmit]

What I mean is, well he didn't look real to me and imo alot of cgi has surpassed it now but people still use that as the example of perfect cgi when imo it wasn't. IMO take away the colour of ang's hulk and he was much more realistic than gollum, not in all scenes but in basically all the daytime shots.

 

[Hmarrs]

I agree but when I expressed an opinion you replied with a sarcastic response asif your opinion was fact.

Sorry if I came of that way.I was just joking.

 

[Kirmit]

Sorry if I came of that way.I was just joking.

No worries, I just thought you were a poster like Godman who always posts his opinion as fact , just look in the CGI thread in the Hulk forums to see what I mean.

 

[S.A.A.D.]

No worries, I just thought you were a poster like Godman who always posts his opinion as fact , just look in the CGI thread in the Hulk forums to see what I mean.

So,there isn't even an IMO or an I think in one of of Godman's posts???
I'm not calling you a liar man I am just asking since you have been around this place longer than I have.

 

[Kirmit]

So,there isn't even an IMO or an I think in one of of Godman's posts???
I'm not calling you a liar man I am just asking since you have been around this place longer than I have.

Nope there's no imo's and if you disagree with his posts, the name calling starts, his opinion is fact apparently lol, I've taken to the ignore option now t:.

 

[S.A.A.D.]

Nope there's no imo's and if you disagree with his posts, the name calling starts, his opinion is fact apparently lol, I've taken to the ignore option now t:.

However there is two problems.


A)People can quote him wether you are signed in on this site or not which can leave you no choice but to read the post and also possibly making you get more involved with him(Godman).


B)If you aren't signed in here,you can still see Godman's posts if they pop up before you sign in.

 

[SupaFresh208]

Personally I think you should withhold judgement on those who pass judgement until the movie comes he movie comes out.

They put those clips and those pictures out there.If they don't want us to pass judgement then they shouldn't put them out there UNTIL the movie comes out.

That's what these threads are about.We come here to voice our opinions and bounce them of off each other.
Don't get me wrong I understand what your saying.Regardless of what is said here we will still go and see it.I just hope by the time it comes out it looks better than what I see now.The Hulk is my one of my favorites>I just want them to do him justice.

Yea I thought it was "withhold" I didn't feel like double checking. Fam, I know what these threads are all about as a comic fan its great to read but as a bored worker stuck in a cubicle until 5pm, its a great place to kill time. But every now and again there comes a thread in which an opinion goes into pure stupidity and when you factor in logic (if any), thats where I make a comment.

 

[shapeshifter]

listen I am no huge fan of CG, but I recognize its place. I know it allows for some things we may not get otherwise. I like it when movies find creative ways around it, but i doubt that anyone could have pulled this off with a costume.

In some cases like I am Legend for instance it should not have been used, because of the lack of quality and, honestly i really think it was not needed.

I do feel that it affects the other actors performance, and still looks rubbery in most cases, but its here to stay and its only going to get better.

 

[Hmarrs]

Yea I thought it was "withhold" I didn't feel like double checking. Fam, I know what these threads are all about as a comic fan its great to read but as a bored worker stuck in a cubicle until 5pm, its a great place to kill time. But every now and again there comes a thread in which an opinion goes into pure stupidity and when you factor in logic (if any), thats where I make a comment.

Are you saying my opinion is based in stupidity?
I hope not since it's not your place.And so....It doesn't bother me.
If you think this is wasteful and your tired then....get off.
Why do people stay on threads that anoy them .If I thought it was wasteful I would leave.Their are hundreds of other threads go enjoy yourself some place else.It kills me how people stay on Threads that anoy them just to tell people how they should or shouldn't think.I see that all the time on these threads these selfrightous people who want to play god and tell everyone else how to think or what to do.Dude their are hundreds of other threads on here go someplace else.
Do what you want but do me a favor and if you can't respect my opinion don't even adress me anymore.

 

[ant3ros]

I don't understand why CGI is being questioned so much recently. I don't think it's 'ruining' movies. If anything, the problem lies more in the way we as a society views things. There's this whole craze about attacking what's fake. I remember on Youtube when everyone was posting FAKE on videos. The problem is general expectations and different standards of entertainment. We're incredibly spoiled visually. I mean each generation becomes more and more bombarded with imagery as of nothing is sublime anymore

As a tool, I can only think CGI is improving movies.

 

[Arach Knight]

Showing Hulk in CGI is more than a question of how "human" or "real" (since i'm assuming that people mean human when they say real in this conversation). Go watch the old 1970's hulk. There was so little that Lou Ferrigno could do. Even the best stunts would not do a creature like Hulk, any kind of justice. He's fighting large mutated creatures and hurling things far larger than a car. In order for those kinds of feats to be shown, you have to use CGI. And when you try to switch between real actors and CGI, it never works out. Just look at Spider-Man.

 

[ANTOINE X]

I don't understand why CGI is being questioned so much recently. I don't think it's 'ruining' movies. If anything, the problem lies more in the way we as a society views things. There's this whole craze about attacking what's fake. I remember on Youtube when everyone was posting FAKE on videos. The problem is general expectations and different standards of entertainment. We're incredibly spoiled visually. I mean each generation becomes more and more bombarded with imagery as of nothing is sublime anymore

As a tool, I can only think CGI is improving movies.

Its not a debate about if cgi is useful or not. I think everybody agree that Cgi is useful on almost every level: robots(transformers),animals(Narnia) monsters(alien), object and background(star wars). I think the only flaw is human. The motion, the expression of the face is still cartoonish.

I mean if you compare Hulk with the lion in Narnia: i think its clear that the lion is more realistic. Even Jurassic park is better than Hulk.

 

[ANTOINE X]

Showing Hulk in CGI is more than a question of how "human" or "real" (since i'm assuming that people mean human when they say real in this conversation). Go watch the old 1970's hulk. There was so little that Lou Ferrigno could do. Even the best stunts would not do a creature like Hulk, any kind of justice. He's fighting large mutated creatures and hurling things far larger than a car. In order for those kinds of feats to be shown, you have to use CGI. And when you try to switch between real actors and CGI, it never works out. Just look at Spider-Man.

Than what do you think about the monster in 300? He looked realy tall compare to the others and they were no cgi in it!

 

[Hmarrs]

Its not a debate about if cgi is useful or not.

I keep saying that Antoine but I don't think people understand.
I'm saying why just CGI?

 

[ant3ros]

Its not a debate about if cgi is useful or not.

I keep saying that Antoine but I don't think people understand.
I'm saying why just CGI?

I'm starting to think the main underlying issue people have with the Hulk CGI is his face. Not the actual rendering or movement.

I think that's a valid criticism. Here's why: Marvel designed the Hulk's appearance before Norton came on board. Therefore, Hulk's face isn't real. It has some stylization and idealization that the imagination can't avoid. Only nature can create the imperfections that all faces have. And, our eyes are actually the most critical when it comes to faces. It's wired in our brains our ability to distinguish faces, so we are naturally more critical when it comes to CGI faces looking real.

Here's the advantage of 2003 Hulk's face, it incorporated features Eric Bana had. Maybe if Marvel had more time if Ed Norton was on board earlier, the could have used real characteristics and proportions from Norton's face.

Another thing about this 2008 Hulk. This is completely different CGI because of the kinetic camera. The CGI has the difficult task of compensating for the drastic movements of the camera. I don't think what we've seen are finished products because if you look at the trailer and pictures, the focus on the CGI is inconsistent.

By the way, The CGI did use Norton's body for references. But, Hulk is so massive that nearly all of him HAS to be invented by CGI. Even if you take motion captures and scale the model larger, there's a lot of detail that would need to be added by CGI.

 

[Hmarrs]

Okay talk to me anyone who doesn't admit this looks fake as heck is lying.
He looks like a puppet.

 

[Hmarrs]

Do really want to know why CGI looks fake he it is I'll tell you why.
CGI looks fake because neither wieght nor mass is taken into consideration.
You can't have a man that is 10ft.tall move at the same rate and speed of an average person.It looks phony.It's like if you were to fast forward a movie the people start movie fast and they look silly.It doesn't matter that it's real it still looks silly and what?Animated.

Golum from LOTR wasn't all that more rendered but he moved in conjuntion with his weight and height.They made Lou Forigno look bigger back in the day.How? By slowing down the speed of the camera.The new Godzilla movie and the Jurrastic Park movie looked great because they moved according to their Weight and Mass.That's why the new King Kong looked phony to me.I don't think they could have rendered it any better than they did but he moved too fast making him look animated.When somthing that big moves that fast it looks weightless and animated.When you look at a 747 flying in the sky although it's moving at 700 miles per hour it doesn't look like it's moving that fast.On take off or landing either.To a Fly we move very,very slow.If we were to move move at the speed the fly does how would we look?Silly.Insects move extremly fast to our eyes in part to their size if we were the same size of an insect it would look more normal in speed.But the reality is they see us coming from a mile away due to our size.Don't believe me go catch one it's not that easy.That scene where the Hulk and the Abomination are running at each other.They look like two 5 year old kids running at each other.If it were slower and had more impact as they moved.Believe me it would look more realistic to us.

They move around and interact like they had no weight and they don't because there CGI graphics but the CGI powers that be need to add the effect of Wieght and Mass.It was the same problem in the first Hulk.That's why I think the only scene that could be considered realistic is when the Hulk walks up to the father iunder the sprinkler system,he was walking slowly we could see it from the father's point of view and relate.I know the Hulk can move fast but let it be in sudden bursts like Alligators or Crocs.Something that has that type of wieght and hieght should be consistent with it or our eyes look at it and see it's phony.Kind of like a Blow-up Snowman on Christmas no matter how real it looks the minute we see it blow in the wind we know it's fake.Why because uncontiously or contiously we identify things in their medium.

800-1000 pounds may move that fast but it wouldn't look fast to us.Even in the comics Hulk would smack someone up and they would say"Great scott I didn't think something that big could move that fast I never saw it comming!!!".You ever seen an Elephant running they look slow until their on top of you.You ever pull out onto oncomming traffic the cars or vehiecles comming don't look like thier comming that fast especially a Tractor trailer how about this have you seen a Train moving looks slow until their on top of you(God Forbid).Big things move slow in general and if they do move fast to our eyes we don't see it that way.That's why CGI looks phony until they fix this it will always look phony.It's about Physics.More than anything else.Again no rendering in the world is going to make it look real if it still moves fake.When they realize this then and only then will you see a huge jump with CGI on screens.They have the look they have the movement but not in conjuction to the character.Why?Because they don't take Size or Weight or Mass into consideration.

 

[Danalys]

the size issue is already taken care of, they already are moving faster than they appear to be because they are the apropriate scale. creatures like the hulk and abomination have the strength and speed to move themselves effortlessly. indicators of weight would be in their momentum, how that reacts with the internal forces of their bodies and their affect on the surroundings.