Comics Why I always liked Spidey

[DACrowe]

I decided to take a moment to reflect on the character that caused me to start posting here years ago (to see why you see/skip to the bottom). I haven't read a new Spidey comics in years. I haven't even read a regular superhero comic in years, but I still love this character.

The usual theory writers suggest is relatability for children upset at authority figures and confused adolescences. While those are partially true, Peter Parker is not an empty vehicle for the reader. A shell of a character for readers to insert themselves. He has become popular because the character has taken on a life of his own. Peter Parker is the quintessential everyman. This plays into the relatability quality many cite. However, I'd distinguish this as a unique character trait in the genre. Some will say Batman is the most realistic because he doesn't have superpowers (if one ignores his God like intuition and mastery of every field of study and combat known to man).

However, Peter Parker is the most human. While his life is one unending melodrama/soap opera complete with colorful villains in underwear, he has the depth and range of emotions removed from many popular characters. He grows from a boy to a man. Beyond that coming of age story, he experiences the lessons of life such as love, loss, tragedy and opportunity. Until recently, he has not been a static character. And like a real uman, no single moment defines his life. His Uncle Ben died and he honors his memory by initially becoming Spider-Man. But it becomes a release for him and a choice he makes everyday. He doesn't do what he does because he was born with powers and was told to be a Christ-like figure by a father's ghost from a dead planet. His arc doesn't begin and end with the murder of his parents in an alley after a movie. He is a character who is constantly in flux. He goes through high school, college, drops out of graduate school, takes on real jobs, dates, falls in love, experiences tragedy, moves on, gets married, etc.

Not one of these things define him. They as a cumulative whole define him. He lives the American experience in an unusual, fantastic way. But while fantasy, the character is never lost to it. The death of loved ones nor the colorful tights define him. His ability to grow, change and evolve defines him. The experience defines him. That gives him a timeless quality that I was reminded of when I read Neil Gaiman's superb "Marvel 1602," recently. The character is timeless because he is not just wish fulfillment for high school geeks. He is the archetypal character of the everyman that has lived as long as there have been stories. But he is a wholly singular interpretation of it, because it was grafted on the American 20th century children's genre of comics. And like that genre (and like everybody) he has grown in unexpected, unpredictable but entirely familiar ways. Perhaps, that's why I lost interest in his current comics. While I admit, giving time to read comics is a drain I no indulge often, there is something missing in the current Marvel iteration of the character. A character who is static, redundant and unable to move on. From a corporate and financial standpoint it makes sense. From even a mythic standpoint it makes sense (if one presumes that comics will be a medium for future generations....which I don't), but for the character himself? Not really.

Anyway, this was post #20,000, so I decided to write this little thought over a few minutes.

 

[Gwendolyn Stacy]

Are you asking people why they like Spider-Man or are you just doing one post? If not, then this isn't really a thread.

 

[DACrowe]

Feel free to post your thoughts on the character or whatever you want to post.

 

[CConn]

Not to be a downer, but while I agree with you that the concept behind Spider-Man is a great one...I kind of feel as though it's gotten lost long ago, and he's now deteriorated into a satire of the everyman than anything else.

The geeky high school kid made sense...when he was 15 and it was 1964. But over the years, as he's continued to act overall awkward and unable to adjust to the world as a whole, he's become less and less of an everyman at every turn.

The famous "Parker Luck" is a prime example of the in-joke that has been created within Spider-Man's world; I've never met anyone who's luck was that bad. I've never met anyone who's smart enough to invent things like webshooters, spider-trackers, etc...yet be unable to hold down a normal job outside of taking pictures of himself for the paper. Spider-Man's continuity has just started to make it all quite unrealistic.

To compound that, since before Spider-Man's creation and ever since, there's been a ton of characters that personify the everyman to a much more believable level than Peter Parker.

Elongated Man, Animal Man, most of the Flashes, Blue Beetle, Invincible...all live very realistic outside of their superheroing. Within reason of course, there's always some bad writer making up some stupid storyline at some point, but overall they've all maintained relatively normal lives, with normal families, and very human struggles throughout...without ever really devolving into parodies.

Anyway, I think my overall point is; no offense to you, Spider-Man himself, or any of his fans, but the simple truth is; we like superheroes for who they are. Not what they represent. Their powers, and personality, and costume. For each of us, a different hero strikes us as the coolest thing there is. And if that's Spider-Man, for you, that's awesome, but he's hardly the standard for, well, anything.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

What I loved about the Spider-man comics I read growing up(60s, 70s, 80s, early 90s), that was absent from all of the other sh comics, was the fact, we the reader were the only ones in on his big secret, who knew who he was and what he was really like.
Unlike all of the other major superheroes who worked alone, the world treated him with distrust and disrespect, even as a villan to be feared. In those first decades of the book, no-one else knew the truth about him. So every time you opened up the comic, you felt like a very special observer, entering this exclusively secret world, it was just you and Spidey sharing these adventures.

You were the only one who saw exactly how the superhero life impacted on his personal life at every turn, *that* was the Parker luck for the most part, sure, we all have bad luck, but this guy had the usual amount we all get, and then some, due to the strain of living two lives, and a sh life that was more of a strain than the other superheroes to a large extent.
- He didn't have help from the cops like Batman, quite the opposite, they'd fire at his just as soon as they would the crooks he was just finished wrapping up.
- He didn't really have any money, always just enough to scrape by.
- His personal relationships were always put under strain by the fact he lived two lives. He lost frineds and lovers due to his life as Spider-man.
- Unlike the X-Men, he had no-one to lean on for support or understanding when things got tough due to his alienation from the rest of the world, never mind the usual dangers of the life.

So, when you took all of that in, and watched this guy still maintain his belief in doing the right thing and never losing his faith in people, always keeping himself upright through humour and bravery, it gave you faith in the human spirit, to never give up, to persevere, and not give a sh** what other people think of you, as long as you knew the truth.

To me, that was what those comics were all about.

edit: they did bring in the fact MJ knew, and then they got married, I only read the first few years of that era, until about 92, but they still worked along those lines i was talking about, something had to give, lol, this guy needed someone to lean on at some point.
I don't know how that all worked out in the books later on though, i guess along the same lines as those first few years.

 

[CConn]

But see, to me, your post speaks more to the quality of the comics at the time (which were unarguably good) and the creative culture surrounding superheroes at the time. It doesn't actually address Spider-Man himself.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

But see, to me, your post speaks more to the quality of the comics at the time (which were unarguably good) and the creative culture surrounding superheroes at the time. It doesn't actually address Spider-Man himself.

Em, it does, as the attractive part of the character, as I was saying, was the fact that he kept being pushed to his limits, felt like he was cracking up, but never gave up, and persevered.
It was all the more admirable because he stuck his neck out all the time for people who hated his guts and put him on the same level as the villans he was saving them from, and went through all that alone.

Whenever he was cracking up, he would always pull himself back, even though he had no-one to confide in or lean on.
His gf's? Aye, they loved him, and he had his moments of happiness, but they still thought he was a bit of a nut, they didn't realise how his Spider-life was impacting on and caussing his strange behaviour.
He didn't have anyone to confide in about those types of problems, no-one to lean on, he carried it all himself.

There was this great Spider-man story they ran in the newspaper strips, it really should have been put in the pages of ASM, it was written by Stan Lee. I don't know what it was called, but it should have been called 'The Day Spider-man stopped giving a ****!'
and it began with him addressing all these problems...hounded by the cops, the press, the public hating him, Gwen being killed by the Goblin, constant stress, a miserable life, and nothing to show for it, no money, no prospects...now, usually at the end of an issue of ASM, he would be mulling over all these exact same problems, talking about the curse of being Spider-man, but being reigned in by the thought of doing the right thing, the lesson learned in AF15, but here it finally all got to him.

and this was no 'SM No More' story, he doesn't think about quitting, he thinks about going dark side. He gets real wound up and angry over the sh** heap that is his life, snaps and says, 'maybe fate is telling me something here...maybe i was meant to be a bad guy all along.'

So, he decides to go out and pull one big score, to set himself up for life money wise, thinking he deserves it. He breaks into a museum, steals a gem on loan from Saudi Arabia, and even the next day he still talks himself into not giving a ****, so what, he deserves a little pay off given everything he's done and all the sh** he's taken. But, the ensuing melee starts a big international incident, maybe triggering a war between the countries....and he immediately realises he has ****ed up big time, fate has tempted him and tested him in such a way that he has yet another lesson to learn...

Anyway...that is what I am talking about, the guy hangs by a thinner thread of sanity than probably a lot of superheroes, and maybe a lot of folk would have snapped a lot earlier, and for good.
The other heroes have cushions that he doesn't...Batman has Alfred, Robin, Gordon, the cops on his side, Superman is universally adored, the Avengers and Justice League are cop families, the FF are a family, same with the X-Men, GL is a cop, GA has BC...Spider-man is the only superhero totally alone and hated, it could drive you crazy living that life of danger in the first place, but to have no reward for it, no recognition, in fact, quite the opposite... it's a test, and he passes it every time he doesn't give up or go dark side.

He is the only superhero without a safety net of sanity, he has to make those swings every time, cause if he starts to buckle, he has no-one to go to, and nowhere to go but down.

Now, that admirable character trait of perseverance, and finding the inner strength to stay sane in the face of overwhelming oppression and misunderstanding, that is what i am talking about, I don't see how I am talking about anything but the character here.

 

[DACrowe]

Not to be a downer, but while I agree with you that the concept behind Spider-Man is a great one...I kind of feel as though it's gotten lost long ago, and he's now deteriorated into a satire of the everyman than anything else.

The geeky high school kid made sense...when he was 15 and it was 1964. But over the years, as he's continued to act overall awkward and unable to adjust to the world as a whole, he's become less and less of an everyman at every turn.

Well I do agree that in the last five years that Marvel has reduced him to a caricature, I'm not sure I follow him staying geeky or awkward. He kind of grew out of that in his college years and has had an active social life with an easygoing persona. What is unbelievable is that every time he started a new career or lifestyle--graduate student, wealthy in the '90s (which was too much to be fair), a corporate scientist and finally a high school teacher--it ends with him quitting/getting fired/erased from continuity and he ends up unemployed again before doing a day-to-day job at the Daily Bugle. That ibt of formula has gone too far.

The famous "Parker Luck" is a prime example of the in-joke that has been created within Spider-Man's world; I've never met anyone who's luck was that bad. I've never met anyone who's smart enough to invent things like webshooters, spider-trackers, etc...yet be unable to hold down a normal job outside of taking pictures of himself for the paper. Spider-Man's continuity has just started to make it all quite unrealistic.

He also married Mary Jane Watson (an actress/sometimes-super model). The '90s were kind of ridiculous in how they swung around his life.

To compound that, since before Spider-Man's creation and ever since, there's been a ton of characters that personify the everyman to a much more believable level than Peter Parker.

Elongated Man, Animal Man, most of the Flashes, Blue Beetle, Invincible...all live very realistic outside of their superheroing. Within reason of course, there's always some bad writer making up some stupid storyline at some point, but overall they've all maintained relatively normal lives, with normal families, and very human struggles throughout...without ever really devolving into parodies.

And nobody knows who the freak those guys are.

Spidey did it first and that is why he has iconic status like Batman, Superman or Wolverine. And unlike any of the other A-list, he (when written right) comes off as a real person, despite his ridiculous after hour activities.

Anyway, I think my overall point is; no offense to you, Spider-Man himself, or any of his fans, but the simple truth is; we like superheroes for who they are. Not what they represent. Their powers, and personality, and costume. For each of us, a different hero strikes us as the coolest thing there is. And if that's Spider-Man, for you, that's awesome, but he's hardly the standard for, well, anything.

Partially true. But the reason some characters are beloved is by what makes them stand out beyond their powers. It's why, say, Batman's sense of driven tragedy and gothic operatics has allowed him to surpass other flashy heroes from his time (Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman, etc.). It's Logan's personality more than the claws as to why Wolverine is the most popular X-Man. Pegging it on a costume or powers seems unsubstantial because there are many pop culture flavors of the month that come and go. Spidey is one of the few in this medium to have had staying power.

 

[CConn]

Well I do agree that in the last five years that Marvel has reduced him to a caricature, I'm not sure I follow him staying geeky or awkward. He kind of grew out of that in his college years and has had an active social life with an easygoing persona. What is unbelievable is that every time he started a new career or lifestyle--graduate student, wealthy in the '90s (which was too much to be fair), a corporate scientist and finally a high school teacher--it ends with him quitting/getting fired/erased from continuity and he ends up unemployed again before doing a day-to-day job at the Daily Bugle. That ibt of formula has gone too far.

Oh, I agree, there's been times in Spider-Man's history where he's been written perfectly, but I think overall, the parody has persisted more than anything.

He also married Mary Jane Watson (an actress/sometimes-super model). The '90s were kind of ridiculous in how they swung around his life.

Which honestly annoys me a bit. I'd rather see him in the logical situation of having a high paying scientific job (kinda like he has now, I'll admit) and a model wife, then their back and forth between success story and loser.

And nobody knows who the freak those guys are.

Which pays into my point; we like superheroes because they're popular and cool. Like how a teenage girl likes the star quarterback. Ha.

Spidey did it first and that is why he has iconic status like Batman, Superman or Wolverine. And unlike any of the other A-list, he (when written right) comes off as a real person, despite his ridiculous after hour activities.

No, actually, Spider-Man didn't do it first. Both Elongated Man and The Flash (and I'm sure several others whom I can't recall) are older than Spider-Man.

Partially true. But the reason some characters are beloved is by what makes them stand out beyond their powers. It's why, say, Batman's sense of driven tragedy and gothic operatics has allowed him to surpass other flashy heroes from his time (Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman, etc.). It's Logan's personality more than the claws as to why Wolverine is the most popular X-Man. Pegging it on a costume or powers seems unsubstantial because there are many pop culture flavors of the month that come and go. Spidey is one of the few in this medium to have had staying power.

Well, I love Batman more than my own mother and I can tell you it's primarily because he's a BA with a cool costume.