The Winter Soldier Why The Winter Soldier was Played Perfectly

[Compi716]

The problem with the debate is that Bucky isn't the villain in this film—Hydra is. The Winter Soldier is like a Terminator, a tool they use to do their dirty work. We get glimmers of his humanity, but not much (until the very end). His further growth as a character, accepting who he is and rebuilding his friendship with Steve, will come in the third film (which is totally fine).

 

[Glassjaw]

I don't quite agree. And it goes back to what was actually my single least favorite part of The First Avenger. That montage sequence where we see Cap and the boys kicking but, and we're to understand they're turning the war around, but it's kind of empty. That movie REALLY needed a full mission sequence, like in the flashback sequences in Brubaker's run, showing us that group working as a unit. The movie kind of just goes from Cap rescuing everybody, to Bucky "dying", to the big finale. It was missing a beat.

Completely agree. That montage is where the first film goes downhill for me. LOVE LOVE LOVE everything before it. Hits you right in the feels, the build up is great, and I love the contrast between Cap's propaganda tour Stateside and then getting over to France and seeing how the real troops appreciate his warbonds effort.

But once that montage comes along, it shifts in tone too much. Commedically giant tanks, lazer gun battles, Hydra stooges, none of it has any 'weight', it doesn't feel like Cap is knee deep in a World War. There's also no sense of time moving forward. And poor Red Skull is reduced to a pantomime villain, cursing his incompetent troops. Then the montage is over and the Howling Commando's are boading some sci fi train in a weak fight and before we know it, Bucky is dead. I wanted Bucky's character to have a bigger presense in TWS before the reveal that he's alive, because I feel like the first film by contrast of this vastly superior sequal, didn't do a good enough job of setting certain strings up.

No one is complaining about The Winter Soldiers depiction in this film. It was perfect. The complaint is, the heavy emotional punch at the reveal could have been heavier, had we seen and felt Bucky's importance to Cap beforehand.

Edit: This is taken from the Art of the film book.

I would have loved to have one flashback of a WW2 scene, like this image hints at. During this scene, audiences would think it was just showing us the contribution Cap made in the war, but really it would also be sowing the seeds for the Cap and Bucky relationship, making it a even bigger deal when we the audience find out who the Winter Soldier is.

I certainly didn't let this spoil my enjoyment of the movie, I think it might be my favourite Marvel movie to date. I think I just love the WW2 stuff and would eat up more of it. Perhaps we'll see more in Cap 3, since that's also going to feature TWS hugely.

 

[yllum]

Hydra experimented on him in TFA and while that allowed him to survive the fall he didn't exhibit any extra strength or quickness during his time as a Howling Commando.

In the quick flashbacks it looks like he's being experimented on again. With the Red Star on his arm, the file Natasha gave Steve which looked Russian, and the Russian he spoke I assume that he was retrieved/captured/experimented on after the fall and given the arm by the Soviets before he became a Hydra/Shield tool.

He wasn't given Steve's serum/vit-ray combo since it's one of a kind but I assume a variation. This is different from the comics where only his arm is cyber enhanced. He's stronger and faster in the film but not as strong as fast as Steve.

Steve caught up to him on the roof even though WS had a head start and a clear roof to run across. He needed to always use his cybernetic arm to catch, throw, block Steve's shield - unlike Steve. He's a challenge though especially since also always go for the kill when Steve doesn't. (this actually builds upon Bucky as sniper - he was always a bit darker and more ruthless than Steve) In their last fight Steve beat him, broke his arm and knocked him out with a sleeper hold which gave WS the opportunity to wake and shoot Steve. Even shot Steve could have fought and taken him but he didn't want to.

I love ur detailed explaination. It is great.!!! Before I watch this movie. I always thought they will used the line in the comics where steve said " shoot me, if you truely dont remember me " I was wrong on that too .lol

 

[Hcmarvel]

Completely agree. That montage is where the first film goes downhill for me. LOVE LOVE LOVE everything before it. Hits you right in the feels, the build up is great, and I love the contrast between Cap's propaganda tour Stateside and then getting over to France and seeing how the real troops appreciate his warbonds effort.

But once that montage comes along, it shifts in tone too much. Commedically giant tanks, lazer gun battles, Hydra stooges, none of it has any 'weight', it doesn't feel like Cap is knee deep in a World War. There's also no sense of time moving forward. And poor Red Skull is reduced to a pantomime villain, cursing his incompetent troops. Then the montage is over and the Howling Commando's are boading some sci fi train in a weak fight and before we know it, Bucky is dead. I wanted Bucky's character to have a bigger presense in TWS before the reveal that he's alive, because I feel like the first film by contrast of this vastly superior sequal, didn't do a good enough job of setting certain strings up.

No one is complaining about The Winter Soldiers depiction in this film. It was perfect. The complaint is, the heavy emotional punch at the reveal could have been heavier, had we seen and felt Bucky's importance to Cap beforehand.

Bingo. And again, it would have taken one sequence showing Cap, Buck, and the commandos going on a mission. Obviously we don't need to see them discovering/freeing a concentration camp. The movie didn't need that. And I LOVE stuff like giant Hydra weapons. But it never ever felt like he was in World War 2. Raiders of the Lost Ark, which has no battle scenes, felt 100X more like it was taking place during the war for instance.

I don't buy that Captain America saw **** you can't un-see during the war. I just don't.

 

[The Guard]

Yeah, Cap/Bucky was a little underdeveloped in the first movie. They should have let them go on one final mission and had Bucky survive until the end of the movie in CAPTAIN AMERICA.

In THE WINTER SOLDIER, he's basically just a badass, which is all well and good, but ultimately not very interesting. They could have done a lot better with the concept, and the source material provides ample opportunity for this. What we got in this movie was incredibly generic.

I mean, much of the "hook" of the original storyline is that Bucky has a mental breakdown and starts to "wake up", isn't sure who to trust, etc. Here, he was just sort of "evil" until the end, and while Captain America's desire to help his friend works, very little about the actual Bucky character does. It feels like they're going to try to stretch that into the next film, and I'm not sure that was the right approach characterwise.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Yeah, Cap/Bucky was a little underdeveloped in the first movie. They should have let them go on one final mission and had Bucky survive until the end of the movie in CAPTAIN AMERICA.

In THE WINTER SOLDIER, he's basically just a badass, which is all well and good, but ultimately not very interesting. They could have done a lot better with the concept, and the source material provides ample opportunity for this. What we got in this movie was incredibly generic.

I mean, much of the "hook" of the original storyline is that Bucky has a mental breakdown and starts to "wake up", isn't sure who to trust, etc. Here, he was just sort of "evil" until the end, and while Captain America's desire to help his friend works, very little about the actual Bucky character does. It feels like they're going to try to stretch that into the next film, and I'm not sure that was the right approach characterwise.

Generic? LOL

They're clearly stretching Bucky's arc into the 3rd film. The writers even expressed as much in a new article out today on CBM. The rest is simply impatience on your part.

 

[The Guard]

Yes. Generic.

 

[BoredGuy]

IDK, I saw Bucky "waking up" throughout the film, questioning what was happening and who to trust...
maybe we saw different movies though

 

[Just_Human]

I think TWS was perfectly used, if you look at the context and his purpose

Having him have a bigger role in this movie would have been a big mistake

It has to be gradual

 

[Leafy]

I think that the Winter Soldier's silence was perfect. It really shows that Hydra just made him into a robot, a tool to do their bidding.

Spoiler

This entry from Tv Tropes sum it up better then I could-

A lot of people are upset Winter Soldier doesn't actually have that much of a speaking part when he's the Antagonist Title. Except...there's not really anyone there to speak, HYDRA hollowed him out so that he's an effectively mindless minion of theirs, a gun with no ability to act by himself. What did Zola call him? A fist of HYDRA, ie a hand completely under the control of and useless without the mind. Bucky doesn't speak because he doesn't have his own character any more - he's simply HYDRA's embodiment, their hand. The hand of an antagonist is not the limb you talk to.

When he starts screaming during that final fight, when he shows almost any emotion, that's when we know cracks are appearing in the brainwashing.