No Way Home Will this be Spider-Man's last film in the MCU? MCU vs. SSMU

[GuestStar2004]

Not necessarily. To me it reads they quickly rushed a deal so they could get production on the next Spider-Man movie and to buy both companies more time to figure out what they're going to do next.

I can't see them rushing a deal like that. not for something like Spider-man. they both needed to be happy with it. so rushing would be wreckless. if anything this might be trial to see how it works out after the 2 movies

 

[GuestStar2004]

but again, I disagree with the bolded. This is ALL about the fans. All Sony and Disney care about is making money, and they are aware than FANS buying movie tickets is what brings them money.

Yeah but from how it sounds. Disney wanted to up their profit from the Spider-man movies. the movies that are where Sony get their main profit. while Disney also profit from merchandise. which is why the MCU Spider-man movies often change his costume so they have new toys to sell. so if Disney decide they wanted more money from the box office, which is like 25% at this point right? and feel their MCU is whats making Sony money. Sony may not want to give more to Disney. they might play hardball again. It could end up Disney is making more money from Spider-man, who Sony own, then what Sony are. and thats where the studios will start to conflict. they each own a piece and they need to benefit equally.

And Kevin Feige has no say in whether they renew the deal. its gonna come down to greed in the long run.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Not necessarily. To me it reads they quickly rushed a deal so they could get production on the next Spider-Man movie and to buy both companies more time to figure out what they're going to do next.

Because some people couldn't understand that Tom's contract and Disney's/Sony's contract are 2 separate things. That's all really.

yeah including me lol but I get it now

Yeah but from how it sounds. Disney wanted to up their profit from the Spider-man movies. the movies that are where Sony get their main profit. while Disney also profit from merchandise. which is why the MCU Spider-man movies often change his costume so they have new toys to sell. so if Disney decide they wanted more money from the box office, which is like 25% at this point right? and feel their MCU is whats making Sony money. Sony may not want to give more to Disney. they might play hardball again. It could end up Disney is making more money from Spider-man, who Sony own, then what Sony are. and thats where the studios will start to conflict. they each own a piece and they need to benefit equally.

And Kevin Feige has no say in whether they renew the deal. its gonna come down to greed in the long run.

Yes Disney wants more money and Sony wanted to keep the status quo which is why they broke up in the first place but as I have explained to you because of pressure from consumers, Sony has no choice but to work with Disney indefinitely. If they even think about breaking up with Disney again, they will experience a repeat of the backlash in 2019, and that backlash is what led to them renegotiating.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well they do have a choice. Sony would never do this under the idea they have no choice. Having no choice would also give them no power against Disney in negotiations. if anything they probably have a backup plan if needed.

Infact it sounds abit like the SM3 we are getting with Toby and Andew might have been what Sony was gonna do after the deal fell through the first time. so they did have a plan.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Well they do have a choice. Sony would never do this under the idea they have no choice. it would also give them no power against Disney in negociations. if anything they probably have a back up plan if needed

I don't mean that they literally have no choice. If they choose to make the most money possible, then that means appeasing the fans and keeping their character part of the MCU

 

[GuestStar2004]

I don't mean that they literally have no choice. If they choose to make the most money possible, then that means appeasing the fans and keeping their character part of the MCU

But they can make money with him being in the MCU. its like the first Venom movie and listening to fans saying NO ONE WANTS TO SEE VENOM WITHOUT SPIDER-MAN! THIS IS GONNA FLOP! and then the first Venom movie makes 800 million. You don't always guarantee success from working for fans.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

But they can make money with him being in the MCU. its like the first Venom movie and listening to fans saying NO ONE WANTS TO SEE VENOM WITHOUT SPIDER-MAN! THIS IS GONNA FLOP! and then the first Venom movie makes 800 million. You don't always guarantee success from working for fans.

Venom isn't part of the MCU as a franchise, so that doesn't matter.

To add to your bolded point, they can make the MOST money with him being in the MCU. Homecoming made almost $200 million more than ASM 2, the movie was better received, and all on a smaller budget too.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Thing is, it comes down to this in the long run, the deal fell through for a reason. Sony wasn't happy with what Disney asked for and Disney wanted to up the deal abit. it seems like what happened was the deal fell through and the reaction probably did make them be abit more reasonable to each other. but really they only managed to come up with 2 more movies as part of the new deal. maybe that was because they realised FFH left things kinda open in the MCU and they thought they could close that arc with 2 more movies. who knows. but 2 more movies kinda has limited written on it.

It really depends what happened on the next renewal date, because thats when studios start saying ok so we feel the success of this movie should allow us more of the money. and thats where fans crying won't suddenly make the studios willing to allow the other more money. one owns spider-man and one owns the universe he is in. so it would be tough to kinda settle this arrangement.



There is also only so many movies Tom Holland can do really. especially when Sony is kinda early into their Sonyverse so they won't be able to get Holland to be in like 10 more movies of Solos, crossovers and team up movies or whatever. i mean it all adds up and at some point Tom is gonna be willing to move on

No one said he was going to be in 10 of them. But a few of them? He can do that.

 

[GuestStar2004]

No one said he was going to be in 10 of them. But a few of them? He can do that.

It depends where and what those few more are. for example if its a venom crossover, then that makes 1 movie down.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It depends where and what those few more are. for example if its a venom crossover, then that makes 1 movie down.

Yep. He can do several of those

 

[SM71]

To add to your bolded point, they can make the MOST money with him being in the MCU. Homecoming made almost $200 million more than ASM 2, the movie was better received, and all on a smaller budget too.

I agree with this. But I think the point some might be trying to make is that if Disney keeps upping (or wanting to) their share of the film profits, then at some point that higher BO haul would mean nothing to Sony -- As in 100% of a smaller revenue could eventually outweigh only getting a percentage of a much higher BO haul, depending on the deals Disney wants to make

As a lot of people have been saying though, it really seems like it'll come down to greed, on both sides. (Although Disney seem to be ones getting a bit greedier, from what things personally seem like to me. But who knows)

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I agree with this. But I think the point some might be trying to make is that if Disney keeps upping (or wanting to) their share of the film profits, then at some point that higher BO haul would mean nothing to Sony -- As in 100% of a smaller revenue could eventually outweigh only getting a percentage of a much higher BO haul, depending on the deals Disney wants to make

As a lot of people have been saying though, it really seems like it'll come down to greed, on both sides. (Although Disney seem to be ones getting a bit greedier, from what things personally seem like to me. But who knows)

absolutely it's Disney getting greedier, but the announcement of classic Spider-Man movies being on Disney+ came after the 2019 renegotiation (pretty sure it was even this year) so I think they might be coming closer to good terms.

The original deal made it so that there was no revenue split between solo Spidey movies and crossover movies featuring Spidey. If now Disney is getting 25% of the solo Spidey movies, then Sony should get a 25% split from the crossover movies. I dunno. Something to make it fair.

Sony needs Disney, Disney doesn't need Sony.

 

[kguillou]

I think in light of the NWH trailer surpassing Endgame's, Sony is going to be emboldened to believe that they've built the Spider-man IP back up enough where they dont need the MCU anymore. I mean, if things go well with the world in the next few months, and Sony nails the marketing, NWH could make boatloads of money and potentially be people's favorite new Spider-man movie ever. If it becomes that wildly successful they made decide that they can just do their own thing without marvel.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I think in light of the NWH trailer surpassing Endgame's, Sony is going to be emboldened to believe that they've built the Spider-man IP back up enough where they dont need the MCU anymore. I mean, if things go well with the world in the next few months, and Sony nails the marketing, NWH could make boatloads of money and potentially be people's favorite new Spider-man movie ever. If it becomes that wildly successful they made decide that they can just do their own thing without marvel.

That's what both John Campea and Robert Meyer Burnett said today.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

My gut says...

Covid will dampen the BO of this. It will be profitable and popular but there is going to be a significant difference from the last two times a Spidey product was out in theaters.

I think both Disney and Sony will continue the partnership because the landscape has not returned to Pre-pandemic norms and may not anytime soon.

They need each other.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I think in light of the NWH trailer surpassing Endgame's, Sony is going to be emboldened to believe that they've built the Spider-man IP back up enough where they dont need the MCU anymore. I mean, if things go well with the world in the next few months, and Sony nails the marketing, NWH could make boatloads of money and potentially be people's favorite new Spider-man movie ever. If it becomes that wildly successful they made decide that they can just do their own thing without marvel.

I just can't see Sony thinking they can get away with adapting Spider-Man outside of the MCU without facing the demand of a return all over again.

With Venom 2 and Morbius releasing during a pandemic, I don't think there is any chance they will be close to the success that the first Venom was. NwH's success will blow the rest out of the water but that'll be completely different

 

[Ctfxcwatcher]

I wonder will NWH be very front loaded at the box office. Spider-Man films have become very front loaded since the first film. But Homecoming and FFH did do some good rebounding.
I think Spider-Man stays for the foreseeable future in the MCU until it's time for a new deal.
I'm thinking Tom's Spidey makes appearances in other films like the upcoming Fantastic Four maybe?
I could be wrong

 

[Drizzle]

All I know is if Sony pulls Spidey out of the MCU and reboots it's gonna get ugly with the fans.

Marvel helped rebuild the Spider-man brand into a billion dollar franchise again. Spider-man has come a long way since ASM2. Why throw away all that progress?

No good can come from Sony pulling Spidey out of the MCU, but it's not like TASM2 was a Batman and Robin situation. Sure, it's the worst Spider-Man movie, but all things considered it still made $700 million worldwide so it wasn't a flop at all regardless of how it was received critically. It was only two short years before Holland's Spider-Man was introduced in the MCU followed up with a new solo film a year later, and the TASM movies didn't seem to affect that considering Homecoming outgrossed both of them. If anything, the period between Spider-Man 3 and The Amazing Spider-Man was even more of a mess considering how close a fourth Raimi film came to being made before it got canned in favor of a reboot, which people were immediately skeptical about considering how soon it was coming after the previous films.

 

[Venom 1988]

No good can come from Sony pulling Spidey out of the MCU, but it's not like TASM2 was a Batman and Robin situation. Sure, it's the worst Spider-Man movie, but all things considered it still made $700 million worldwide so it wasn't a flop at all regardless of how it was received critically. It was only two short years before Holland's Spider-Man was introduced in the MCU followed up with a new solo film a year later, and the TASM movies didn't seem to affect that considering Homecoming outgrossed both of them. If anything, the period between Spider-Man 3 and The Amazing Spider-Man was even more of a mess considering how close a fourth Raimi film came to being made before it got canned in favor of a reboot, which people were immediately skeptical about considering how soon it was coming after the previous films.

Yea it made $700 million but with a budget of close to $300 million and double that for marketing, it needed to make way more money for Sony to consider it a win. Add in the poor reviews from critics and fans, it was a bomb in Sony's eyes.

I'd have to search for it but there was an article from 2014/2015 that basically detailed in length how ASM2 was a financial disaster for Sony.

 

[Drizzle]

Yea it made $700 million but with a budget of close to $300 million and double that for marketing, it needed to make way more money for Sony to consider it a win. Add in the poor reviews from critics and fans, it was a bomb in Sony's eyes.

I'd have to search for it but there was an article from 2014/2015 that basically detailed in length how ASM2 was a financial disaster for Sony.

Yeah Sony wasn't proud of it but even if the agreement with Marvel Studios hadn't happened, they still would have moved forward with an Amazing Spider-Man 3. As bad as it was, TASM2 wasn't a franchise killer.

 

[GuestStar2004]

TASM2 was due to bad financial decision-making. i mean in what world is 700 million bad? i tell you now 700 million wasn't making Sony think about giving up on Spider-man. like what? just 700 million? aww . thats a number that most movies. THAT most comic book movies wish they could make at the box office. thats still a number that means alot of people went to see it. its just the moment you say oh it NEEDS to make a billion for it to be profitable is when you know there was poor usage of Financing going on. no one should go in pushing for a billion.

And i think the only reason Homecoming made more money was because of RDJ. i think he brought in a large portion of that box office. even if it was just 200 million more.

In general now though. we are in a very different time when it comes to comic book movies. Audiences have kinda evolved with the quantity of comic book movies and the quantity of reboots. so its not quite as simple anymore. Audiences are kinda expected to adjust to new and to change.

 

[Ctfxcwatcher]

ASM 2 was very expensive. Didn't those leaked sony emails confirm they didn't make much of anything of profit from the movie? Which explains them playing the long game with Disney/Marvel.
I do love how great ASM2 looked. You can tell they spent so much money on it. Very pretty film at least...great gowns, beautiful gowns .

I wonder will they ever spend that much money on a Spidey film again(probably this film since the budget is going to be ballooned since certain actors are coming back)I heard filming in NYC is very expensive too.

 

[Drizzle]

And i think the only reason Homecoming made more money was because of RDJ. i think he brought in a large portion of that box office. even if it was just 200 million more.

I think RDJ's presence in Civil War did more for that movie than Homecoming (along with the movie basically being an Avengers 2.5). RDJ or no, Spider-Man is and has been Marvel's most popular superhero since decades before the MCU was even a thing. Tony Stark being in Homecoming might have given it a little boost but he was really pushed in the marketing because Sony wanted to distance Homecoming from the TASM movies as much as they could. Even though MCU Spidey first appeared in Civil War, there were no posters featuring him, the only merchandise of him was an action figure and a Funko Pop which both came out after the release of the movie. The only piece of marketing he appeared in for that one was the second trailer. That was all they needed though considering the reaction to him popping up at the end and saying "Hey everyone" broke the internet.

Homecoming would have still been very successful even if RDJ wasn't in it, but I think the reason why it didn't pass a billion worldwide was because it was a very low-stakes Spider-Man movie with a C-list villain as opposed to a more popular one like Green Goblin or Doc Ock, even though Keaton was amazing as Vulture. But two years later it was all too easy for Far From Home to pass that benchmark after the one-two punch of Infinity War and Endgame.

 

[Venom 1988]

Yeah Sony wasn't proud of it but even if the agreement with Marvel Studios hadn't happened, they still would have moved forward with an Amazing Spider-Man 3. As bad as it was, TASM2 wasn't a franchise killer.

Oh I know, there's tons of leaked Sony emails that detail all their plans lol. One of which included a ASM 1.5 so they could bring back Emma Stone and Norman as Green Goblin even though there was never any indication Peter ever met Norman, much less fought another Goblin prior to ASM 2 lol.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think RDJ's presence in Civil War did more for that movie than Homecoming (along with the movie basically being an Avengers 2.5). RDJ or no, Spider-Man is and has been Marvel's most popular superhero since decades before the MCU was even a thing. Tony Stark being in Homecoming might have given it a little boost but he was really pushed in the marketing because Sony wanted to distance Homecoming from the TASM movies as much as they could. Even though MCU Spidey first appeared in Civil War, there were no posters featuring him, the only merchandise of him was an action figure and a Funko Pop which both came out after the release of the movie. The only piece of marketing he appeared in for that one was the second trailer. That was all they needed though considering the reaction to him popping up at the end and saying "Hey everyone" broke the internet.

Homecoming would have still been very successful even if RDJ wasn't in it, but I think the reason why it didn't pass a billion worldwide was because it was a very low-stakes Spider-Man movie with a C-list villain as opposed to a more popular one like Green Goblin or Doc Ock, even though Keaton was amazing as Vulture. But two years later it was all too easy for Far From Home to pass that benchmark after the one-two punch of Infinity War and Endgame.

Well adding RDJ isn't what distanced it from TASM. all RDJ did was guarantee extra at the box office. personally i think had you of taken out RDJ it probably would have made about 700 million to slightly less than that.

But then i think saying there was distancing going on is like saying well Venom in the Venom movie is different all because of distancing themselves from SM3