Will this be the last one?

[Spidey_Zombie]

Okay, hmm where to start...

Agreed... but look at how X3 sh:tted on some characters... are you gonna trust a new director if it came to that?

That's the problem...This is NOT X-men 3... Also I never said anything about there being a new director... If Riami continues up to six they should do it....

keep in mind Spidey was never about the villains... it was about the relationships these villains had to Parker (as well as his friends and family)... you telling me Hydroman, Scorpion, blah blah blah are going to have deep relationships and psychological impact on Peter Parker... I think not...

1. Scorpian and How he ties in with Spider-man...

The Scorpion was created by Jonah Jameson, who paid $10,000 to a researcher in animal mutation to perform an untested human mutation, and another $10,000 to Mac Gargan as the subject of the experiment. The result was the loss of Gargan's sanity, and the creation of a super-powered criminal menace.

JJJ, could create him and hire him as a bounty to take down Spidey...Yadda yadda yadda... But a mishap, causes him to go insane blah blah blah...

2. The Lizard - We already know there's some back story with him and Spidey...*coughs doc connors coughs*

3. Symbiote - Spidey 3, *coughs venom dead, the symbiote wants revenge so it bonds with Scorpian toward the ends* Ala Latest Comics...

4. Norman Osbore GG or Hob Goblin - You can't say he has no back story with Spidey, for crying out loud... Norman would probally think Spidey was responsible for the apparent death of his son, and himself yadda yadda yadda.

Though appearing to be dead, Norman Osborn's tale did not end there. According to his journals, the chemicals that altered Norman Osborn's strength, intelligence, and sanity also gave him superhuman healing ability. Despite being impailed through the chest, Norman regenerated, and escaped the morgue replacing his body with that of a drifter he murdered (and impaled through the chest). To cover-up the shame of his father's alter-ego, Harry bribed the coroner to fake the autopsy ensuring there would be no record of the Goblin formula in his blood.

5. Chameleon - He could just be a minor villian, caught during a bank heist or something... Via Spidey Games etc... No back story needed... He'd be just a cameo...
-----------------------------------------
I think that about covers the relationship parts between the villians....

I think not... you know it can't work forever... look at Batman Begins... Ra's Al Ghul was his former mentor.... Sandman and Joker (Burton) murdered (the hero's) father figures respectively... you can't just throw in random villains in there.

As stated, those are NOT random villians... They all lead to a ripple effect, which makes Spidey...Well Spidey... Physically, and emotionally...

When you have a proven crew doing a 4th movie, I can see it turning out well. A new trilogy is a bigger risk than doing a 4th film with the same people, as a new crew could screw it up royally, ala Batman franchise. Like I said, Lizard has a personal relationship with Spider-Man, so there is a good story there. Spider-Man 4 with the Lizard as the main villain would be good. I think Sony will end up doing this. Throwing in new directors, etc is what killed Batman, not villains. Raimi has shown he can do stories, so he definately could make a 4th film.

I agree as well... Keep Lizard as the main villian...

 

[The Shape]

it doesn't matter what villians are in the movies. what matter's is Peter. SPIDER-MAN. the stories need to be about him, not about The Lizard or Carnage.

if someone can think of a good way to follow up 3, please do so.

 

[FaT_tONle]

When you have a proven crew doing a 4th movie, I can see it turning out well. A new trilogy is a bigger risk than doing a 4th film with the same people, as a new crew could screw it up royally, ala Batman franchise. Like I said, Lizard has a personal relationship with Spider-Man, so there is a good story there. Spider-Man 4 with the Lizard as the main villain would be good. I think Sony will end up doing this. Throwing in new directors, etc is what killed Batman, not villains. Raimi has shown he can do stories, so he definately could make a 4th film.

Let's just agree to disagree on this one okay... my view... Raimi and Tobey are done... period... you can't convince me otherwise until SM4 is in pre-production and everyone resigns a deal with SOny. I can't see it. Besides this is the third time I believe we have talked about this.

 

[The Shape]

When you have a proven crew doing a 4th movie, I can see it turning out well. A new trilogy is a bigger risk than doing a 4th film with the same people, as a new crew could screw it up royally, ala Batman franchise. Like I said, Lizard has a personal relationship with Spider-Man, so there is a good story there. Spider-Man 4 with the Lizard as the main villain would be good. I think Sony will end up doing this. Throwing in new directors, etc is what killed Batman, not villains. Raimi has shown he can do stories, so he definately could make a 4th film.

but everyone's forgetting that the whole mentor/scientist-gone-crazy-in-a-freak-accident thing has been done with Ock, and in a way, Osborn. i really don't see a lizard story happening. it's just too repetitive, and the film-makers know that.

SM3 would be the perfect ending to a great trilogy. to continue with more movies right away is a mistake.

 

[GoldGoblin]

Maybe the symbiote crawls to the cemetery and smells the hate that it craves,it crawls into the ground and brings Norman back as the DemoGoblin

 

[FaT_tONle]

but everyone's forgetting that the whole mentor/scientist-gone-crazy-in-a-freak-accident thing has been done with Ock, and in a way, Osborn. i really don't see a lizard story happening. it's just too repetitive, and the film-makers know that.

SM3 would be the perfect ending to a great trilogy. to continue with more movies right away is a mistake.

Many people have mentioned this before but people still think OMFG what about the COnners story... it was something to keep the fans salivating... let's not get carried away... everyone knows Ock and Norman took up the mentor role... stop acting like it's this whole new concept that must be explored in the fourth film.

 

[FaT_tONle]

this is the SM4 climax...

SPiderman: (Takes off his mask)
Lizard: Parker, now I get why you didn't attend class
Spiderman: You once told me to do my research... look at what your research has done to you
Lizard: (Looking at himself)... he's right... listen to me now you ****ing ******ed reptile ****head...
Kraven: (From Behind) Die you monster!
Lizard: (Shoves Spiderman out of the way)... I will not die a monster... (sacrifices himself)
Spiderman: NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go figure...

 

[The Shape]

this is the SM4 climax...

SPiderman: (Takes off his mask)
Lizard: Parker, now I get why you didn't attend class
Spiderman: You once told me to do my research... look at what your research has done to you
Lizard: (Looking at himself)... he's right... listen to me now you ****ing ******ed reptile ****head...
Kraven: (From Behind) Die you monster!
Lizard: (Shoves Spiderman out of the way)... I will not die a monster... (sacrifices himself)
Spiderman: NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go figure...

right. i don't know why people expect to see something so radically awesome with the lizard. it's not happening.

 

[Spider-Fan]

this is the SM4 climax...

SPiderman: (Takes off his mask)
Lizard: Parker, now I get why you didn't attend class
Spiderman: You once told me to do my research... look at what your research has done to you
Lizard: (Looking at himself)... he's right... listen to me now you ****ing ******ed reptile ****head...
Kraven: (From Behind) Die you monster!
Lizard: (Shoves Spiderman out of the way)... I will not die a monster... (sacrifices himself)
Spiderman: NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go figure...

Lizard doesn't have Connor's mind. He is a whole new persona, so that wouldn't happen. We wouldn't see the same conflicts with Lizard as Ock, so quit trying to throw that out there.

Also, about the whole science gone wrong thing. MOST OF THE FREAKING GENRE OF COMICS IS SCIENCE GONE WRONG! That argument is not applicable. Each character got their powers mostly through science, and these films have been doing fine, and no one complains.

 

[FaT_tONle]

w/e... tell me when they make your lizard story with the original cast when it comes around SPiderfan... I won't be waiting for it though...

 

[Spider-Fan]

My movie will come before a 4-6 trilogy does.

 

[The Shape]

Lizard doesn't have Connor's mind. He is a whole new persona, so that wouldn't happen. We wouldn't see the same conflicts with Lizard as Ock, so quit trying to throw that out there.

Also, about the whole science gone wrong thing. MOST OF THE FREAKING GENRE OF COMICS IS SCIENCE GONE WRONG! That argument is not applicable. Each character got their powers mostly through science, and these films have been doing fine, and no one complains.

ok...and there wasn't a split persona with Norman/Green Goblin?

it's been done. it's not happening again.

 

[Spider-Fan]

ok...and there wasn't a split persona with Norman/Green Goblin?

it's been done. it's not happening again.

Lizard isn't a split persona in that sense. By this logic, no more tech villains due to GG, no more scientists due to Ock and GG, no more symbiotes due to Venom, and no more accidents due to Sandman. Tell me, where does that leave us?

Lizard hasn't been done. This is a villain that would provide more conflict with Peter personally than he has had. GG, he didn't know it was Osborn, Ock kidnapped people, etc. Lizard gives Peter a conflict he hasn't experienced yet, so how has he been done exactly.

 

[Venom 1988]

The Lizard is more Jekyll/Hyde. Connors persona never comes out in the Lizard's body and vice versa.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The Lizard is more Jekyll/Hyde. Connors persona never comes out in the Lizard's body and vice versa.

Someone who understands the Lizard.

 

[The Shape]

Lizard isn't a split persona in that sense. By this logic, no more tech villains due to GG, no more scientists due to Ock and GG, no more symbiotes due to Venom, and no more accidents due to Sandman. Tell me, where does that leave us?

Lizard hasn't been done. This is a villain that would provide more conflict with Peter personally than he has had. GG, he didn't know it was Osborn, Ock kidnapped people, etc. Lizard gives Peter a conflict he hasn't experienced yet, so how has he been done exactly.

how has peter not experienced that conflict already?

"oh, no! my teacher/scientest who was almost like a mentor to me has turned into a monster in a freak lab accident! now he's a bad guy and my enemy! i have to stop him..."

sound familiar at all?

sure, it's possible for lizard to be in a SM movie, but what does this add to the story of peter parker? ya know....SPIDER-MAN, the title character. what does it add that we havent seen?

 

[Spider-Fan]

how has peter not experienced that conflict already?

"oh, no! my teacher/scientest who was almost like a mentor to me has turned into a monster in a freak lab accident! now he's a bad guy and my enemy! i have to stop him..."

sound familiar at all?

sure, it's possible for lizard to be in a SM movie, but what does this add to the story of peter parker? ya know....SPIDER-MAN, the title character. what does it add that we havent seen?

He has never thought about whether or not to fighting the bad guy. The Lizard is a villain he would think to hold back against. He didn't for Ock, nor GG, nor does it look like he will in this. With the Lizard, he would realize Connors is inside the Lizard, so hurting him is hurting Connors. Peter hasn't faced this before. The scientist/mentor aspects have been done, but not the conflict of actually holding back against an enemy.

 

[The Shape]

He has never thought about whether or not to fighting the bad guy. The Lizard is a villain he would think to hold back against. He didn't for Ock, nor GG, nor does it look like he will in this. With the Lizard, he would realize Connors is inside the Lizard, so hurting him is hurting Connors. Peter hasn't faced this before. The scientist/mentor aspects have been done, but not the conflict of actually holding back against an enemy.

what makes you think he'll hold back against him? he knew Ock before he went bad. did he hold back against him, realizing there was a good man underneath those tentacles? no.

even if that was the case, that's not enough conflict to carry the movie. no SM movie so far has relied on hero/villian conflict. what would the life of peter parker be like? where would his relationship with MJ go? these are things you have to consider that truly carry the story.

 

[Spider-Fan]

what makes you think he'll hold back against him? he knew Ock before he went bad. did he hold back against him, realizing there was a good man underneath those tentacles? no.

even if that was the case, that's not enough conflict to carry the movie. no SM movie so far has relied on hero/villian conflict. what would the life of peter parker be like? where would his relationship with MJ go? these are things you have to consider that truly carry the story.

I'd outline a flick, but I can't as of now. I haven't seen 3. To outline a 4th flick, you kind of have to know what happens in 3, but since I don't want to know until May 4th, I'll avoid my outline. I'll just say, Lizard is the main villain.

 

[The Shape]

I'd outline a flick, but I can't as of now. I haven't seen 3. To outline a 4th flick, you kind of have to know what happens in 3, but since I don't want to know until May 4th, I'll avoid my outline. I'll just say, Lizard is the main villain.

i don't know about you, but we all know exactly what happens in SM3 already. and that proves that a Lizard story would not be a sufficient follow-up. i don't see how that could top the events of SM3, and the whole point of a sequel is to top the previous installment, or at least improve upon it.

 

[SLYspyder]

Why would they bring everyone back? Isn't there a whole lot of people saying they wouldn't go see more movies if they were recasted? That is why the studio would do it. Get the sure money with the cast, as opposed to risking the next block of three being as successful when people are saying they wouldn't watch recasted movies.

Again, I'll stress this, 6 movies will most likely not happen. You can't plan for six. This franchise after recasting won't have the same BO potential, so there won't be legs for 6 movies. Reviving the franchise later, ala Batman, is a better idea.

alot of people saying they won't see it? believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

once again, tobey maguire and kirsten dunst DO NOT make this franchise, Spider-Man does, as long as there are GOOD scripts, people will flock to see Spider-man movies, not for tobey, not for kirsten, not for Raimi, but for Spider-Man. And once again, tobey is already 31 freakin years old. He's older than the guy playing Superman, for pete's sake. He looks young now, but all of a sudden, his age will start to show, and then what will happen? We'll have a 35 yr old Spider-Man on screen.

I was on these very forums when jake gyllenhaal (sp?) almost got the Spider-man roll because tobey was whining about his back before Sm2 started shooting. They were so quick to recast Peter, didn't even think twice about it. Why? Because the movie is about Spider-Man, not tobey maguire. I'm glad they know the actors don't make the franchise, the character does.

 

[Spider-Fan]

alot of people saying they won't see it? believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

once again, tobey maguire and kirsten dunst DO NOT make this franchise, Spider-Man does, as long as there are GOOD scripts, people will flock to see Spider-man movies, not for tobey, not for kirsten, not for Raimi, but for Spider-Man. And once again, tobey is already 31 freakin years old. He's older than the guy playing Superman, for pete's sake. He looks young now, but all of a sudden, his age will start to show, and then what will happen? We'll have a 35 yr old Spider-Man on screen.

I was on these very forums when jake gyllenhaal (sp?) almost got the Spider-man roll because tobey was whining about his back before Sm2 started shooting. They were so quick to recast Peter, didn't even think twice about it. Why? Because the movie is about Spider-Man, not tobey maguire. I'm glad they know the actors don't make the franchise, the character does.

I will only say this one last time, moving on to a new crew is a riskier move for Sony than just doing another Raimi movie. They will be more than happy to take the sure cash, rather than risk giving this to a Schumacher.

 

[Spider-Fan]

i don't know about you, but we all know exactly what happens in SM3 already. and that proves that a Lizard story would not be a sufficient follow-up. i don't see how that could top the events of SM3, and the whole point of a sequel is to top the previous installment, or at least improve upon it.

I have been avoiding major spoilers. I know the villains and the story, but I stay away from threads that give major story elements away. Better movie experience when you don't know every scene before you see it.

 

[GoldGoblin]

alot of people saying they won't see it? believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

once again, tobey maguire and kirsten dunst DO NOT make this franchise, Spider-Man does, as long as there are GOOD scripts, people will flock to see Spider-man movies, not for tobey, not for kirsten, not for Raimi, but for Spider-Man. And once again, tobey is already 31 freakin years old. He's older than the guy playing Superman, for pete's sake. He looks young now, but all of a sudden, his age will start to show, and then what will happen? We'll have a 35 yr old Spider-Man on screen.

I was on these very forums when jake gyllenhaal (sp?) almost got the Spider-man roll because tobey was whining about his back before Sm2 started shooting. They were so quick to recast Peter, didn't even think twice about it. Why? Because the movie is about Spider-Man, not tobey maguire. I'm glad they know the actors don't make the franchise, the character does.

^I think S-M4 should be a go no matter if Tobey wants to be spidey or not.

 

[FaT_tONle]

alot of people saying they won't see it? believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

once again, tobey maguire and kirsten dunst DO NOT make this franchise, Spider-Man does, as long as there are GOOD scripts, people will flock to see Spider-man movies, not for tobey, not for kirsten, not for Raimi, but for Spider-Man. And once again, tobey is already 31 freakin years old. He's older than the guy playing Superman, for pete's sake. He looks young now, but all of a sudden, his age will start to show, and then what will happen? We'll have a 35 yr old Spider-Man on screen.

I was on these very forums when jake gyllenhaal (sp?) almost got the Spider-man roll because tobey was whining about his back before Sm2 started shooting. They were so quick to recast Peter, didn't even think twice about it. Why? Because the movie is about Spider-Man, not tobey maguire. I'm glad they know the actors don't make the franchise, the character does.

This was what I have been saying as well... Spiderfan just seems to think Sony would do everything they can to sign everyone back... a younger cast however would prolong the franchise to more than 4 movies... you look at other franchises that went beyond 3 films... and they are so different...

Indy 4... Harrison is the face of the franchise
Rocky: Stallone is the face of the franchise
LW4: Can't do it without Mel/Glover
Supes: Even with Reeves... 3/4 sucked...

All I am saying is that Tobey is not the face of the franchise... you can afford to recast... but if you recast one (ala Dunst)... why not recast em all... Raimi is not soley responsible for the success of this franchise so they can move on with a new director at the helm as well... and make even more than a 4th movie conclusion... if there are so many stories left to be told... we need a new cast that will stick with it till the end