Wolfman-The Offical Thread

[MOVIELORD101]

Yeah, I saw the movie back on opening day. It's wasn't BAD, but it wasn't excellent. I cut the movie a LOT of slack since I felt that, overall, Joe Johnston managed to salvage all of the positive things about the movie, given how troubled the production history was on this. This doesn't make up for the almost non-existent character development or the lingering mysteries about Hopkins' character, but, overall, I felt the action scenes and the ending (as well as Hopins and Hugo Weaving's characters) made up for that to a certain extent.

7/10

 

[marvelman2006]

I will rent the directors cut off netflix and give it another shot. I didnt hate the movie when I saw it in the theater but it wasnt a masterpiece. this was just a standard by the numbers wolf movie and there was nothing ground breaking to say the least. you could see the ending coming within the first 30 minutes and the whole wolf vs wolf thing was kinda stupid because once it was over then we were back to a wolf chase. I really wish they would of explored del toro's character trying to control the wolf before and during transformation. I did like the first wolf attack though on the gypsy camp, that was pretty clever and made me think back to the ghost and the darkness with douglas and val kilmer. I do hope though the directors cut corrects alot of issues I have.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Anyone else grab the DVD/Blu-ray today? I got the DVD and only watched the deleted scenes so far. There's a brief scene between Lawrence and Gwen before the priest and some men come to try and take Lawrence, shortly after he was attacked, which was nice. There's an extended transformation sequence...not extended by much, and reveals more CGI than need be. There's also a scene of Sir John's manservant telling Lawrence how Sir John saved his life.

Then there's the much anticipated costume ball scene, which I found incredibly laughable. The Wolfman CASUALLY walks in on the party, in which all the people comment on the "realism" and "detail" of his costume. The Wolfman approaches a blind woman singing, and he is captivated. A short guy tries to touch him and The Wolfman bites into his head. Then he runs away and kills a dude performing a sock puppet play and scares the kids watching. It's just really silly and feels out of place given the rest of the film.

and lastly, there's an extended fight sequence between The Wolfman and Papa Wolf. I didn't really notice the differences. It's still cheesy, but this time around, I kinda like it.

I'm gonna harass my friend to rent the blu-ray just so i can watch the alternate endings. Later on, either tonight or tomorrow, i'll post a review of the director's cut of the film.

 

[Figs]

I will rent the directors cut off netflix and give it another shot. I didnt hate the movie when I saw it in the theater but it wasnt a masterpiece. this was just a standard by the numbers wolf movie and there was nothing ground breaking to say the least. you could see the ending coming within the first 30 minutes and the whole wolf vs wolf thing was kinda stupid because once it was over then we were back to a wolf chase. I really wish they would of explored del toro's character trying to control the wolf before and during transformation. I did like the first wolf attack though on the gypsy camp, that was pretty clever and made me think back to the ghost and the darkness with douglas and val kilmer. I do hope though the directors cut corrects alot of issues I have.

Hahaha. Of course you could, it's a remake and we all know how that ended let alone just about every single other Werewolf movie out there.

 

[Man in the Suit]

TERRIBLE THINGS, Lawrence. You've done TERRIBLE THINGS.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I have just ordered it on blu-ray so cant wait to get it to see the extended version, I think it'll really help the film.

 

[CrimsonMist]

So i just got done watching the extended cut. I didn't watch the theatrical cut for comparison, however. But the biggest amount of new footage is at the beginning, mostly before the first transformation. Kinda disappointed in this cut too, but that may be because I had high hopes. The pacing is fixed for the most part. The voice-over of Gwen reading a letter calling upon Lawrence is scrapped and we see her go to London to physically tell him about it. Some characterization is fixed. But aside from pacing, everything else that I felt plagued the original cut is still there. Del Toro and Hopkins aren't interesting. Blunt is just kinda there. There are some extended scenes as a bonus feature that I posted about earlier, and some of those should have been incorporated back into the film. Wouldn't have done wonders, but some of the editing otherwise seemed choppy without the extended stuff in it.

The whole film really feels flat. It certainly looks nice. But it lacks a presence, it lacks atmosphere and it lacks tension. It relies on jump scares, which given the look of the film, seems really ridiculous. Creepy gothic mansion, old world superstition, no science, werewolves, Victorian London...where's the atmosphere? Why did they go for jump scares instead? Those don't work anymore. Everything in this film called for scares by atmosphere and the film failed to comprehend that. Add to the fact that you don't really feel for any of the characters, the film is one big short-coming. The tacked on "LET'S MAKE A SEQUEL!" ending really feels out of place upon second viewing. I've said otherwise in regards to the story, but this time around, I think they REALLY should have just expanded upon the original greek tragedy aspect of the original film. This film tries to go for that "At what cost?!" kind of ending, but the emotion needed to really seal the deal isn't there.

There's also this very evident sense of nostalgia throughout the film, as if Johnston set out to make the film as a monster kid for a monster kid. And in that sense, the film feels more "fun" if anything, than scary. There's also this odd tonal shift from 1930's style Universal A-Budget horror to 1940's Style B-Budget horror with the wolf vs wolf fight. I've said this before: The 40's Universal stuff is really cheesy compared to the 30's stuff. The 30's stuff was treated more seriously and when the 40's came along, the horror films got really campy. There was no way they could have had Wolfman vs Wolfman and make it serious. It's too dopey.So I HOPE that they never bother trying to do cross-overs. There are barriers in tone that can't be crossed, and should some filmmakers cross them, they'll be laughed at and for all the wrong reasons. Dracula vs Frankenstein, Frankenstein vs The Wolfman, The Wolfman vs Dracula...I just can't see this happening at all. This I apply to even the Hammer films. Those films do have a cheesy feel to them sometimes, but even so: I can't see Christopher Lee's Dracula fighting Oliver Reed's Wolfman or any of the Hammer Frankenstein creatures. It just doesn't work.

Overall, I'll give the film a 6.5 out of 10. It's entertaining, and it's kind of fun. The Wolfman himself looks nasty. The cinematography is gorgeous. And I give it props for not being gratuitously violent, TRYING to be smart, for being a horror film that isn't torture porn or a slasher movie, two sub-genres which have been plaguing cinema for quite sometime now. I genuinely loved the fact that they went throwback on this. These are the kind of horror films I live for. But the performances and lack of emotional resonance is what really brings this film down. I hope Universal doesn't shy away from touching more of the properties. Del Toro's Frankenstein should very well be the film The Wolfman very much wanted and tried to be.

 

[marvelman2006]

Hahaha. Of course you could, it's a remake and we all know how that ended let alone just about every single other Werewolf movie out there.

well I never saw the original and yes it was a cookie cutter werewolf movie. Im not sure why you laughed but the last werewolf movie I remember having 2 wolfs fight at the end was wolf with jack nicholson. It was just too obvious to see what was coming, my fiance saw it with me and now granted she has never seen a werewolf movie before but she could even tell who the villian was. It was just a by the numbers wolf movie and its sad because I had high hopes they would of brought something new to the table.

 

[Nivek]

The 40's Universal stuff is really cheesy compared to the 30's stuff. The 30's stuff was treated more seriously and when the 40's came along, the horror films got really campy. There was no way they could have had Wolfman vs Wolfman and make it serious.

Uhhhhhhh.....

Werewolf of London?

 

[CrimsonMist]

Uhhhhhhh.....

Werewolf of London?

There's actually no werewolf vs werewolf fights in that movie. Werewolf Werner Oland attacks human Henry Hull at the beginning. Towards the end, Werewolf Henry Hull attacks Human Werner Oland and kills him.

There are two lycanthropes in the movie, but you never see them as wolfmen on screen together.

 

[DACrowe]

Well the extended cut is much, much better.

I mean seriously. It turned what was pretty much a bad, wasted opportunity of a film in February and turned it into an entertaining, albeit still very flawed, old school monster movie. The masterpiece it could have been we will never see, but if you are a fan of old Universal films check out the DC. Why?

The pacing of the first act makes it so much better. Instead of moving like a broker on coke, the film has a generally subdued and menacingly sad build up. We see Lawrence as Hamlet and as a world-wary introverted actor before the plot gets going. He and Gwen meet in London and they are both just much more developed by added scenes. There are sequences where they just add a little bit of dialogue or character development, but it fleshes out Del Toro's performance and moments that seemed wooden and stiff before now seem nuanced and subtle (though he still struggles with his non-mumbly American accent, clearly), such as when he meets with Abberline or shows his inner-monster early when he attacks villagers gossiping about his dead mother.

And the relationship of the family Talbot is just much more visible with more scenes of him and his father talking about his dead mother or the resentment of worldviews both sides have. It also makes Sir John's motives in this version much more clear. He doesn't want to kill his son, but he wants his son to embrace the wolf as he has. He honestly has no sense of malevolence to his son in human form (though they both contend for Gwen subconsciously in the old Freudian addition Walker put in the script).

But most of all it just moves so much better. Seeing Lawrence's journey to Blackmoore take several scenes and have the sense of traveling to the ends of the earth where "anything is possible" in these dark corners...the sense of foreboding dread is apparent from the word go here and the inevitable tragedy awaiting. It is similar to Harker approaching Castle Dracula in the Coppola film or Ichabod Crane traveling to Sleepy Hollow in the Burton movie.

Speaking of which there is a new scene that has an image homage to Coppola's Dracula that then features an amazing cameo that I will not give away.

Most of the problems still occur towards the end (werewolf fight), but seeing the special features and realizing Anthony Hopkins put on werewolf make-up makes it seem almost worth it. Almost.



And the alternate endings.

SPOILERS OF ALTERNATE ENDINGS:

1) The Wolfman kind of sexually mauls Gwen at the end and she shoots him and he dies. She barely survives and realizes she will become a werewolf and looks up at the full moon.

2) Gwen doesn't fire the gun in time and the Wolfman sexually mauls her to death and then stands over her dead body and growls/winks at a zoom-in camera shot. I'm pretty sure this was a joke ending shot just as a gag for the DVD/Blu-ray.

I personally think there was a better ending they didn't do between the version we've all seen and the first alternate ending. This is loosely based on the Wolf Man's ending in House of Frankenstein (1943).

Gwen reaches for the gun but not quite in time and the Wolfman assaults her and she screams in the grizzly attack. But then she manages to fire one-to-two silver bullets into the monster. He rolls off of her and changes back into Lawrence.

Gwen looks at her fatal wound and then crawls over to Lawrence who awakens and knows he is dying. He manages just to say, "Thank you," to Gwen and then fades away. Gwen with tears in her eyes, crawls onto him and dies with her head on his body. Thus creating that tragic star-crossed lovers image.

Abberline and the villagers stumble onto this sad sight. And as they look on in horror and pity, Abberline looks at the cane and then the moon and realizes he is going to do the same soon. Cut to credits.

My thoughts.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Damn, this sounds great. I have to check this out. It sounds like it fixes the same problems I had.

How would you rate it now Crowe?

 

[Symbiotic]

Are there any newly-added Wolfman scenes? Such as the ballroom attack?

 

[Spidey-Bat]

My mom and sister watched it on pay-per view last night. They didn't like it. But they both liked Van Helsing so what do they know.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Sounds like if I enjoyed the theatrical cut [which I did], then I'll love the extended cut.

Getting it on Monday.

 

[nocomics]

I really didn't enjoy this movie at it just lacked any substance any characters u wanted to feel for...For some reason it reminded me of Sherlock Holmes;guess maybe the time period or the way it was shot?
It relied on gore to get any point across and just had depth in the story or characters and it was overly long...

 

[DACrowe]

Are there any newly-added Wolfman scenes? Such as the ballroom attack?

No. But it is a deleted scene as an extra. Honestly, it wasn't very good. It looked cool in the trailers, but in whole it is just a silly/campy moment that we would have all complained about if it was in the final film. Either version.

 

[Figs]

Thanks for the info DACrowe! I bought this on Blu-Ray when it was released and haven't gotten around to wathcing it but it's great to know the added scenes help the movie out and they sound like scenes that others as well as myself were hoping for in regards to more character moments.

If I love the director's cut that much more than the theatrical version it will just add to my hate towards studios wanting films to be cut down from the director's original vision.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Speaking of which there is a new scene that has an image homage to Coppola's Dracula that then features an amazing cameo that I will not give away.

You're referring to the train sequence, no? I didn't pick up on any homage to Coppola's film, but I will say, that despite the amazing cameo, this scene was essentially useless. It has a wonderful plant, a wonderful plant. And the payoff is non-existent. Out of context, the scene is subtly ominous and creepy, and in the 2 hour whole, it is pointless.

But I agree with pretty much everything else you said. This cut fixes, for the most part, the poor pacing of the theatrical cut. Tweaks the characterizations as best as possible, though I still don't care for any of them.

Agreed that the masterpiece that this film SHOULD have been isn't here. And aside from pacing and some inserted characterization, i wouldn't go so far as to say it's great. It's a fun as hell film on a superficial level, but any deeper analysis reveals the flaws as glaring.

Seeing this cut of the film also made me realize how even more pointless the gypsies are in this film. But I digress. Any of you looking forward to this as a great movie will be disappointed. But if you want a fun movie, this is definitely more fun than the theatrical cut.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Are there any newly-added Wolfman scenes? Such as the ballroom attack?

In deleted scenes, there's the ballroom attack and an extended version of the first transformation which should have stayed in the film. It flows much better. And in the actual film, they show more of the Wolfman in the beginning, which is actually a huge mistake, as they show too much.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Oh, one more thing. BEST BUY has an exclusive copy of the DVD as a special 2 disc set, that includes all the behind the scenes featurettes of the blu-ray disc. It doesn't, however, include the alternate endings.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Got the extended version there too watch but am gonna wait until dark to watch the set the mood a little, sounds great and cant wait to watch it.

 

[cryptic name]

No. But it is a deleted scene as an extra. Honestly, it wasn't very good. It looked cool in the trailers, but in whole it is just a silly/campy moment that we would have all complained about if it was in the final film. Either version.

finally seeing that deleted scene after looking forward to it really pissed me off. in the walker script, the wolfman comes crashing through a window and just starts mauling party-goers. but then again, pretty much everything was better in the walker script.

 

[DACrowe]

You're referring to the train sequence, no? I didn't pick up on any homage to Coppola's film, but I will say, that despite the amazing cameo, this scene was essentially useless. It has a wonderful plant, a wonderful plant. And the payoff is non-existent. Out of context, the scene is subtly ominous and creepy, and in the 2 hour whole, it is pointless.

But I agree with pretty much everything else you said. This cut fixes, for the most part, the poor pacing of the theatrical cut. Tweaks the characterizations as best as possible, though I still don't care for any of them.

Agreed that the masterpiece that this film SHOULD have been isn't here. And aside from pacing and some inserted characterization, i wouldn't go so far as to say it's great. It's a fun as hell film on a superficial level, but any deeper analysis reveals the flaws as glaring.

Seeing this cut of the film also made me realize how even more pointless the gypsies are in this film. But I digress. Any of you looking forward to this as a great movie will be disappointed. But if you want a fun movie, this is definitely more fun than the theatrical cut.

At the 1:15 mark. It is actually framed differently in the trailer, but it is almost a shot for shot replica of the final film of Coppola's and Johnson's, plus both involve a picture of a loved one.

I do agree the scene is kind of pointless, I wish he had somehow used the cane to kill his father, but oh well.

 

[DACrowe]

finally seeing that deleted scene after looking forward to it really pissed me off. in the walker script, the wolfman comes crashing through a window and just starts mauling party-goers. but then again, pretty much everything was better in the walker script.

Perhaps, I never read it (but wouldn't mind to). With that said Walker was the one who came up with the (bad) ideas of making Sir John evil and for there to be a WWE werewolf throwdown at the end.

And I don't know if this is in his script, but seeing the Wolfman tear people apart inside the bus was terrifyingly grim and enough in that regard, I thought.