Wolverine #43 - Wolveirne VS Nitro: part 1

[Darthphere]

That's so completely ludicrous that I'm honestly astounded you typed it. It's wrong on so many levels...just wow. I certainly hope you were joking.

Its easy, would he had blown up if he wasnt attacked? No. Does he deserve blame? Yes, but not all of it.

 

[Horrorfan]

Its easy, would he had blown up if he wasnt attacked? No. Does he deserve blame? Yes, but not all of it.

Yeah!

While we are at it, how DARE women have the audacity to walk the streets without armed guards....of course they deserve to get raped!

And those ****in dumbasses who have been murdered should have never left the house on that day on that hour on the street the murder was on.

These stupid victims sicken me.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah!

While we are at it, how DARE women have the audacity to walk the streets without armed guards....of course they deserve to get raped!

And those ****in dumbasses who have been murdered should have never left the house on that day on that hour on the street the murder was on.

These stupid victims sicken me.

Different things all together. If you want to use woman as an example use a better one like A woman walks down the street a mugger pulls a gun at her. Joe Schmo decides to play hero and attacks the mugger, gun goes off, woman dies. Even though he was trying to help, his actions caused a woman to be killed and deserves some of the blame. So if you want to be sarcastic, do it properly.

 

[Horrorfan]

You're complete filth.

No offense.

 

[Darthphere]

You're complete filth.

No offense.

Thats fine. Its common knowledge that when you resort to insults youve lost the argument.

 

[Horrorfan]

Thats fine. Its common knowledge that when you resort to insults youve lost the argument.

Or when you are talking to a piece of ****.

Whoops! I did it again

Sorry old bean

 

[Darthphere]

Or when you are talking to a piece of ****.

Whoops! I did it again

Sorry old bean

Please continue. Show everyone how to have a mature conversation.

 

[deathshead2]

No Darth is right you lost the argument and he is also right Nitro doesn't deverse all the blame.

 

[Horrorfan]

Wow people actually think like that?

I shed tears for the way this world is going....

Hopefully since China will be the number one world power soon, more people will be tougher on crime like them

 

[samurai black]

Its easy, would he had blown up if he wasnt attacked? No. Does he deserve blame? Yes, but not all of it.

he has a valid point. Knowing your opponent and figuring out how to take him down are very crucial elements in crime fighting. The New Warriors should have done their research on their targets. Knowing their behavior (who's gonna run, who's gonna fight) and the various power levels would have saved countless lives. They didn't take Nitro seriously (i think he was referred to as the lame capt marvel villain) and the end result was the Stamford Massacre. It's been stated in post before that Namorita should have knocked him out cold with no hesistation. Yes Nitro should get blamed, but so should the New Warriors. Just think if he were a suicide bomber with explosives strapped to his chest and Namorita was a cop who rushed him knocked him down,then talked trash to him, and he exploded himself, taking countless lives with him. Would she get blamed? yep
Would the precint be held accountable? Yes

 

[Horrorfan]

Thats because people are ******ed these days. *****es, basically, who try to place blame on everyone and everything (the victim, society, poverty)ever except the one who pulls the trigger.

Its not like they asked him to blow up the whole neibourhood and kids...he chose to to save himself.


But thankfully, with the Punisher, Namor and Wolverine on his tale, he is going to get what he deserves....

 

[Kotagg]

I'll continue what I was saying, and in an adult manner.

There's no way in HELL that the logic you're presenting here holds water, Darth. Responsibility for the incident rests solely on the shoulders of Nitro. *He* made the decision to blow up. *He* made the decision to kill hundreds of people. *He* knew he was at a school.

The man who holds the gun is the man that pulls the trigger, my friend. A man cannot take a hostage and then shoot the hostage, and the blame is placed on the cop who was trying to talk him down. It just doesn't happen that way. The man goes to prison or dies for killing the hostage, not anyone else.

It's a major problem with people in this day and age; blame-shifting is despicable, and when analyzed to its fullest extent, childish to the extreme.

 

[Harlekin]

So we can't blame a police officer for neglicience in certain cases? I wouldn't hold the New Warriors accountable for every single death in the Stamford massacre, but I'd sure hold them accountable for not doing their job in the right manner (which is the same with the police officer and the suicide-bomber, and that is specifically the example samurai made).

 

[deathshead2]

I'll continue what I was saying, and in an adult manner.

There's no way in HELL that the logic you're presenting here holds water, Darth. Responsibility for the incident rests solely on the shoulders of Nitro. *He* made the decision to blow up. *He* made the decision to kill hundreds of people. *He* knew he was at a school.

The man who holds the gun is the man that pulls the trigger, my friend. A man cannot take a hostage and then shoot the hostage, and the blame is placed on the cop who was trying to talk him down. It just doesn't happen that way. The man goes to prison or dies for killing the hostage, not anyone else.

It's a major problem with people in this day and age; blame-shifting is despicable, and when analyzed to its fullest extent, childish to the extreme.

Yeah but how did Nitro get to the school he was punched there by whatever her name is its partly her blame.

 

[Kotagg]

You can't blame someone for negligence when there is no precedent to ascertain at which point negligence occurs. This situation is unique enough that there's simply no precedent for how to handle it.

In a police situation, VERY often they are not charged with negligence if there are ANY factors that make the case situationally unique. Any out-of-ordinary factors that cast any doubt on precedent procedure absolve him of any inability to do what he "should have."

 

[Kotagg]

Yeah but how did Nitro get to the school he was punched there by whatever her name is its partly her blame.

It doesn't MATTER though. I don't care if I know there is a man with a gun waiting outside my house: if I head outside and he shoots me, HE is the one that shot the gun!

 

[Horrorfan]

I'll continue what I was saying, and in an adult manner.

There's no way in HELL that the logic you're presenting here holds water, Darth. Responsibility for the incident rests solely on the shoulders of Nitro. *He* made the decision to blow up. *He* made the decision to kill hundreds of people. *He* knew he was at a school.

The man who holds the gun is the man that pulls the trigger, my friend. A man cannot take a hostage and then shoot the hostage, and the blame is placed on the cop who was trying to talk him down. It just doesn't happen that way. The man goes to prison or dies for killing the hostage, not anyone else.

It's a major problem with people in this day and age; blame-shifting is despicable, and when analyzed to its fullest extent, childish to the extreme.

Damn ****ing right.

People are spineless *****es these days, man. It makes me sick.

But trying to appeal to people like that..don't waste time, man. Common sense and decencey is foreign to them. I just can't keep my temper in check when it comes to them...excusing criminals makes them just as bad, and if it was up to me I'd throw em in a jail cell too. It really, really turns my stomach.

 

[Kotagg]

No, I don't think any of these guys are necessarily saying Nitro is absolutely irresponsible in the situation - they're just saying that the fault doesn't lay fully on his shoulders. I say it does.

They're alright; except for that Darthphere guy. :P

 

[Horrorfan]

Seriously, people like Harlekin I know to be decent but those views REALLY make me sick. I just really, really despise that way of thinking, with a vengence.

 

[Harlekin]

You can't blame someone for negligence when there is no precedent to ascertain at which point negligence occurs. This situation is unique enough that there's simply no precedent for how to handle it.

In a police situation, VERY often they are not charged with negligence if there are ANY factors that make the case situationally unique. Any out-of-ordinary factors that cast any doubt on precedent procedure absolve him of any inability to do what he "should have."

Look, I completely and utterly agree with this. Often, accusing a police officer of neglicience is something that is very hard to ascertain, but in the situation the New Warriors were in, they had absolutely no excuse to go in like they did. There was no rush and they had time to plan.

The New Warriors should have come up with a plan before they barged in, thought about their approach, and not punch a supervillain they know that can explode near a friggin' school. That is without a shadow of a doubt, neglicience. If they were real, I'd kick their asses for being so stupid.

That is what making me say that not necessarily the blame should be put at the New Warriors, but they should recieve some kind of punishment for this (if anyone survived that is, of course).

 

[Darthphere]

Look, I completely and utterly agree with this. Often, accusing a police officer of neglicience is something that is very hard to ascertain, but in the situation the New Warriors were in, they had absolutely no excuse to go in like they did. There was no rush and they had time to plan.

The New Warriors should have come up with a plan before they barged in, thought about their approach, and not punch a supervillain they know that can explode near a friggin' school. That is without a shadow of a doubt, neglicience. If they were real, I'd kick their asses for being so stupid.

That is what making me say that not necessarily the blame should be put at the New Warriors, but they should recieve some kind of punishment for this (if anyone survived that is, of course).

Exactly.

 

[Darthphere]

Its really sad that this couldnt be discussed without personal insults being thrown.

 

[Dread]

It is true, the New Warriors, despite having been showcased as training quite often in their original series, have degenerated a bit into more "rookie" status after their last mini, and should have prepared better for a fight against not only Nitro, but Speedfreak, Coldheart, and Cobalt Man (who can also explode and leak radiation). On the other hand, Namorita DIDN'T simply TKO Nitro because she offered him a chance to surrender; perhaps one could see it as a police officer asking a suicide bomber to "not do something stupid" (which WOULD happen, because lord knows if a cop simply shot a bomber instantly, he/she'd be accused of profiling and hauled before internal affairs for not giving the perp even a SECOND to maybe surrender). Nitro KNOWS he is near a crowded area and BRAGS about getting nasty before CHOOSING to explode. Namorita's only flaw, aside for maybe not minding her surroundings better, was mercy; she was apparently supposed to bludgeon Nitro into a coma before he could burst, rather than attempt to be humane and offer a chance to surrender and avoid a body cast. Is that fair to say that is the agruement of some of you?

Note that all four were listed as being on the FBI's Top list and the New Warriors and a reality TV crew managed to find them, while Agent Hill and her holier-than-thou agents did not.

I still feel that the New Warriors are the undue scapegoats here, and Nitro is all but left off the hook. SHIELD's Psi-Ops devision can be downright godly for plot convience when they have to sift through Spider-Man's head, but they can't locate Nitro, huh? Of course, its all for plot convience, because siccing Wolverine, Namor & Co. on a deathhunt for the man makes for good readin'.

 

[Darthphere]

It is true, the New Warriors, despite having been showcased as training quite often in their original series, have degenerated a bit into more "rookie" status after their last mini, and should have prepared better for a fight against not only Nitro, but Speedfreak, Coldheart, and Cobalt Man (who can also explode and leak radiation). On the other hand, Namorita DIDN'T simply TKO Nitro because she offered him a chance to surrender; perhaps one could see it as a police officer asking a suicide bomber to "not do something stupid" (which WOULD happen, because lord knows if a cop simply shot a bomber instantly, he/she'd be accused of profiling and hauled before internal affairs for not giving the perp even a SECOND to maybe surrender). Nitro KNOWS he is near a crowded area and BRAGS about getting nasty before CHOOSING to explode. Namorita's only flaw, aside for maybe not minding her surroundings better, was mercy; she was apparently supposed to bludgeon Nitro into a coma before he could burst, rather than attempt to be humane and offer a chance to surrender and avoid a body cast. Is that fair to say that is the agruement of some of you?

Note that all four were listed as being on the FBI's Top list and the New Warriors and a reality TV crew managed to find them, while Agent Hill and her holier-than-thou agents did not.

I still feel that the New Warriors are the undue scapegoats here, and Nitro is all but left off the hook. SHIELD's Psi-Ops devision can be downright godly for plot convience when they have to sift through Spider-Man's head, but they can't locate Nitro, huh? Of course, its all for plot convience, because siccing Wolverine, Namor & Co. on a deathhunt for the man makes for good readin'.

I agree with this Dread, it is all done for plot convinience. Still im not saying saying Nitro doesnt deserve blame, he deserves most of it, but not all of it.

 

[samurai black]

Look, I completely and utterly agree with this. Often, accusing a police officer of neglicience is something that is very hard to ascertain, but in the situation the New Warriors were in, they had absolutely no excuse to go in like they did. There was no rush and they had time to plan.

The New Warriors should have come up with a plan before they barged in, thought about their approach, and not punch a supervillain they know that can explode near a friggin' school. That is without a shadow of a doubt, neglicience. If they were real, I'd kick their asses for being so stupid.

That is what making me say that not necessarily the blame should be put at the New Warriors, but they should recieve some kind of punishment for this (if anyone survived that is, of course).

That is why they should be held accountable. As someone who comes from a family of law enforcement, i know that the first thing they are taught is that in hostile situation, the most important thing is to preserve human life and keep down civilain casualties. It often becomes the priority over catching the bad guy.We often see it comics where heroes will take on severe injury in order to save an innocent, hell most bad guys create their plan based on that assumption. When the New Warriors made the decision to take down Nitro, they should've evacuated the area, called in reinforcements,gassed the place, then stormed in. But did they do that? NOOOOO! Instead, they rushed into a hostile situation head first, not taking into account regard for civilian life. I mean, Nitro can create atomic blasts!! They weren't in a desert, or underground lair, they were in a suburban neighborhood!! Rushing in was the last thing they should have done. As i stated before, in the real world, that's called negligence. If it were my family in the massacre, I'd probably go Punisher on the super-hero community. Speaking of which someone earlier mentioned the Punisher going after Nitro too, that really does make more sense than logan (thought i'd mention his name,it is a thread about him).