Wolverine and the X Men at Comic-Con

[jmc247]

No it wasn't. When the series began development and production, Quicksilver was not such a heroic character or Avenger. Also from the point of view of the Brotherhood, they are not bad guys, they are simply fighting for the mutant cause in the series. So its a logical path for the character to take.

Exactly, you look to when the series was offically ok'ed it was October 2005 right after HoM and they likely were already were plotting out their episodes before it was ok'ed and by 2006 they were probably scripting the episodes. And, what happened in 2006? The Son of M mini series where Quicksilver killed an innocent, acted like a total ass, and got his daughter hooked on Terrigen Mists.

Had the series been ok'ed and planned two years earlier we likely would have gotten a different depiction of Pietro, Wanda, and Lorna for the first season of the series, but that didn't happen.

 

[TheVileOne]

I mean even without all of that jmc, Quicksilver despite being generally a good guy with the X-men or Avengers has had a pretty shady history. He's kept doing questionable things. Don't want to say once a heel always a heel, but Quicksilver has kept his heelish tendencies for years.

 

[Dread]

Once again to say he's been shunted this quickly is pretty inappropriate.

The opening of the series also features Storm and Nightcrawler, yet Storm didn't even have a single line in the first three episodes. Nightcrawler was there at the beginning as well. I think this basically means we will still see more of the characters later.

I think its more interesting that we get to see screentime for a lot of new characters. Dust appeared and played a role in these episodes as well. That got a big reaction.

DUST got a big reaction at Comic-Con? I hate to diss my own, but some X-Fans seriously need to get a life. That's like someone cheering on Texas Twister in "THE CURE" on FF:WGH (which, FYI, was written by Dan Slott and an incredible episode).

We've gone back and forth on the Colossus thing. My point still stands. Historically speaking, Colossus is always the one member of the GIANT-SIZE-created X-Men who gets the shaft in animation, either appearing for 1-2 episode guest stints or random cameos, never getting much focus or characterization (being a "nice guy", writers find him boring, and it isn't just in animation). I have full historical faith, especially after Evolution and seeing W&TXM promo art, that we will a lot more of Storm and Nightcrawler. I have zero reason to presume much of Colossus besides showing up to help fight Juggernaut (or something). It is on the show's episodes to prove me wrong here.

It sounds like this series is more like the 90's in that cameos will abound. And one could say that is appropriate since there are a messload of new X-characters who have been created or who have come to the fore since 1997-1998 when that last show ended who got missed in Evolution (heck, Evolution made waves for being the first X-show to animate Kitty Pryde since 1989's PRYDE OF THE X-MEN pilot). The intellectual in me would say that it is better to focus on a stable cast of characters than play "how many mutants can you cram into the screen" every episode, which hampered some of the films and half of Season 2 of Evolution. But the fanboy in me can admit to liking a good cameo or two. Lord knows JLU played them to the hilt.

Having Wolverine fight Hulk in both this show and a DTV seems incredibly redundant. Frankly, I'm looking forward to W&TXM's version because it will matter more to a show at large. Continuity, context, etc.

As for Quicksilver, aside for the 90's series he's been a heel, and while it is a little irksome that decades of Avengers service is usually shuffled under the rug to make him a cliche "evil son of Magneto", but to be fair, the comics have been doing this since 2004, so the cartoon is only being topical, which the 90's show sure was for it's time (Gambit was still very new when he was added to the main cast, as was Jubilee). That's fine.

 

[jmc247]

I mean even without all of that jmc, Quicksilver despite being generally a good guy with the X-men or Avengers has had a pretty shady history. He's kept doing questionable things. Don't want to say once a heel always a heel, but Quicksilver has kept his heelish tendencies for years.

True.

He joined the Brotherhood and then rejoined them two other times over the years and he joined Magneto's government on Genosha.

The notion he is deep down a pure hero that wouldn't join the Brotherhood just doesn't wash. Quicksilver has shown over time he is capable of very questionable decisionmaking.

 

[Blade X]

No it wasn't. When the series began development and production, Quicksilver was not such a heroic character or Avenger. Also from the point of view of the Brotherhood, they are not bad guys, they are simply fighting for the mutant cause in the series. So its a logical path for the character to take.

Good thing Marvel Comics hates black people so much they let Bendis make Cage one of the most important characters in the current marvel universe. You also talked about the other reason being a Luke Cage movie that's been in development hell for 10 years and is not seeing the light of day. Yet Cage has remained a highly utilized character.

So you are saying Marvel only hates blacks?

I'm not a fan of the pairing. But Azari is an original character created by Marvel for a new animated movie that's being made for kids. So if you give them credit for that you should lighten up.

However as for Black Panther/Storm, we unfortunately live in a time where for Hollywood its taboo to pair up a black male and female in any major form of media unless its a Tyler Perry flick. So for that it kind of makes sense.

1. He's wrong because HOM was NEVER meant to be the permanent status quo. FYI, Magneto was ruler of Genosha many years before the HOM story was conceived. Now please explain to me what "update" in the comics over the last several years has Domino as a member of the Brotherhood?

2. Marvel let's Bendis write Cage for the same reason they allowed him to use both Spidey and Wolverine in the NEW AVENGERS, because he (Bendis) is the current flavor of the month "hot" creator. And outside of books written by Bendis, Cage is NOT one of the most important characters in the current MU. And just because for the CAGE movie is in development hell, DOES NOT mean that Marvel does'nt think the movie (if and when it is finally made) will not be a potential hit. In other words, if a CAGE movie is ever made and is a huge hit, Marvel wants to have the character in a high profile book.

3. No, I'm saying that Marvel does'nt give a damn about their black characters and their black readers.

4. I'll "lighten up" on Marvel when they stop crapping on their few existing black characters.

And instead of BP marrying Storm, he could/should have married his long time off again/on again girlfriend Monica Lyne.

 

[TheVileOne]

1. He's wrong because HOM was NEVER meant to be the permanent status quo. FYI, Magneto was ruler of Genosha many years before the HOM story was conceived. Now please explain to me what "update" in the comics over the last several years has Domino as a member of the Brotherhood?

So what? At the time he was. Also, it doesn't have to be that rigid. But the show takes very current and up to date versions of the characters, but still takes some license with them. Status quo for Quicksilver, even as a hero he has a very questionable moral authority and has peformed many shady acts. When Genosha was given to Magneto, he was quick to support his father. Scarlet Witch on the other hand was not so quick to do so.

2. Marvel let's Bendis write Cage for the same reason they allowed him to use both Spidey and Wolverine in the NEW AVENGERS, because he (Bendis) is the current flavor of the month "hot" creator. And outside of books written by Bendis, Cage is NOT one of the most important characters in the current MU. And just because for the CAGE movie is in development hell, DOES NOT mean that Marvel does'nt think the movie (if and when it is finally made) will not be a potential hit. In other words, if a CAGE movie is ever made and is a huge hit, Marvel wants to have the character in a high profile book.

For a flavor of the month he has sure been around for quite a while. Cage basically became the leader of the New Avengers. He was a pivotal character throughout those storylines as well as Civil War. Also if Marvel wants to do a Cage movie and they have for many years, than that clearly goes against your illogical, irrational thinking that he's only being used a lot because Bendis likes him.

3. No, I'm saying that Marvel does'nt give a damn about their black characters and their black readers.

And I'm saying that's a load of ********. Black Panther is about to get his own TV series. They want to make a Black Panther movie. He's another important character for them.

4. I'll "lighten up" on Marvel when they stop crapping on their few existing black characters.

I don't know of this crap of which you speak.

And instead of BP marrying Storm, he could/should have married his long time off again/on again girlfriend Monica Lyne.

Who says he never will? There's nothing that says Black Panther and Storm will be permanent and they will stay together forever.

 

[Blade X]

So what? At the time he was. Also, it doesn't have to be that rigid. But the show takes very current and up to date versions of the characters, but still takes some license with them. Status quo for Quicksilver, even as a hero he has a very questionable moral authority and has peformed many shady acts. When Genosha was given to Magneto, he was quick to support his father. Scarlet Witch on the other hand was not so quick to do so.



For a flavor of the month he has sure been around for quite a while. Cage basically became the leader of the New Avengers. He was a pivotal character throughout those storylines as well as Civil War. Also if Marvel wants to do a Cage movie and they have for many years, than that clearly goes against your illogical, irrational thinking that he's only being used a lot because Bendis likes him.



And I'm saying that's a load of ********. Black Panther is about to get his own TV series. They want to make a Black Panther movie. He's another important character for them.



I don't know of this crap of which you speak.



Who says he never will? There's nothing that says Black Panther and Storm will be permanent and they will stay together forever.

1. Dude, in the HOM mini series, Magneto was only the ruler of Genosha in that WARPED REALITY created by Wanda. I highly doubt that mini series had any influence at all on WATXM. I should also point out that the "shady acts of questionable moral authority" that Quicksilver performed as a hero (with the exceptions of his actions over the last few years) were either due to him being mind controlled or him PRETENDING to be a bad guy (like he pretended to support Magneto when he took over Genosha).

2. Just because Bendis has been popular for several years now, DOES NOT mean he will CONTINUE to be popular in the months or years to come. I should also point out that not everything he writes sells well and that MANY of his high selling books are due to (but NOT SOLELY due) to gimmicks in order to boost sales on his books.

What pivotol roles has Cage played in any books that were NOT written by Bendis? His role in the CW mini series was very small.

You still don't get it. ONE of the reasons (NOT the only reason) why Marvel has no problem with allowing Bendis to use Cage so much is because there is a POSSIBILITY that a Cage movie MIGHT get made and MIGHT become a hit.

3. The ONLY reason why BP is getting an animated series (and a crappy one from the looks of it) is because Hudlin is both the writer of the book and head of programing at BET. As for the BP movie, IIRC, it was Wesley Snipes who first proposed the idea to Marvel to get a BP movie made.

4. The examples of crapping on black characters and their black readers that I'm talking about is Marvel allowing Claremont to retcon Bisop from being an African American into an Australian Aborigine,Bishop being turned into a bad guy,killing off Black Goliath in a cliche Hollywood movie fashion, writing out of character then killing off the REAL John Wraith and the REAL Night Thrasher,killing off Jessie Bedlam,editors demanding that Cecilia Reyes be killed off (her fate is currently undetermined, but she is in limbo), killing off Maggot,the MAX Cage mini series,depowering and killing off Tag, depowering Prodigy (but they did kind of repower him),killing off Synch,and relegating many of their black characters to limbo.

5. The BP/Storm marriage will only be over if the BP animated series flops and Marvel fires Hudlin and cancels BP.

 

[TheVileOne]

1. Dude, in the HOM mini series, Magneto was only the ruler of Genosha in that WARPED REALITY created by Wanda. I highly doubt that mini series had any influence at all on WATXM. I should also point out that the "shady acts of questionable moral authority" that Quicksilver performed as a hero (with the exceptions of his actions over the last few years) were either due to him being mind controlled or him PRETENDING to be a bad guy (like he pretended to support Magneto when he took over Genosha).

So what. HOM is still fair game. He started out as a Brotherhood member. Magneto was given Genosha in the late 90's.

2. Just because Bendis has been popular for several years now, DOES NOT mean he will CONTINUE to be popular in the months or years to come. I should also point out that not everything he writes sells well and that MANY of his high selling books are due to (but NOT SOLELY due) to gimmicks in order to boost sales on his books.

It's been a lot longer than several years. It's been close to a decade. But either way, that far surpasses what you call the flavor of the month. Bill Jemas seems to fit that a lot more. We never hear about that schmuck anymore.

What pivotol roles has Cage played in any books that were NOT written by Bendis? His role in the CW mini series was very small.

He was one of the bigger supporting players in the anti-registration movement.

Also, what does it matter if they are written by Bendis or not? Since the Bendis books have been major, big books.

You still don't get it. ONE of the reasons (NOT the only reason) why Marvel has no problem with allowing Bendis to use Cage so much is because there is a POSSIBILITY that a Cage movie MIGHT get made and MIGHT become a hit.

So what? There's nothing wrong with that. That applies to all of their characters. What you don't seem to realize is that Marvel wants to make a ton of movies for a ton of their characters, that could also become hits.

3. The ONLY reason why BP is getting an animated series (and a crappy one from the looks of it) is because Hudlin is both the writer of the book and head of programing at BET. As for the BP movie, IIRC, it was Wesley Snipes who first proposed the idea to Marvel to get a BP movie made.

None of this sounds wrong or racist.

4. The examples of crapping on black characters and their black readers that I'm talking about is Marvel allowing Claremont to retcon Bisop from being an African American into an Australian Aborigine,Bishop being turned into a bad guy,killing off Black Goliath in a cliche Hollywood movie fashion, writing out of character then killing off the REAL John Wraith and the REAL Night Thrasher,killing off Jessie Bedlam,editors demanding that Cecilia Reyes be killed off (her fate is currently undetermined, but she is in limbo), killing off Maggot,the MAX Cage mini series,depowering and killing off Tag, depowering Prodigy (but they did kind of repower him),killing off Synch,and relegating many of their black characters to limbo.

None of this really sounds that bad. Maggot and Cecilia Reyes were not that great of characters. Prodigy was never that important of a character, and you already said they repowered him. Even depowered characters have a way of coming back.

5. The BP/Storm marriage will only be over if the BP animated series flops and Marvel fires Hudlin and cancels BP.

That's good news for you then isn't it. More ammo for you as well.

 

[jmc247]

Scarlet Witch on the other hand was not so quick to do so.

Yes, if any member of the family had a major problem with Magneto controlled Genosha it was Wanda not Pietro or Lorna. Of course Wanda used to be one of the most heroic Avengers and co-leader of the team, more reciently she was turned into an insane Drusilla type character.

 

[Blade X]

So what. HOM is still fair game. He started out as a Brotherhood member. Magneto was given Genosha in the late 90's.

It's been a lot longer than several years. It's been close to a decade. But either way, that far surpasses what you call the flavor of the month. Bill Jemas seems to fit that a lot more. We never hear about that schmuck anymore.

He was one of the bigger supporting players in the anti-registration movement.

Also, what does it matter if they are written by Bendis or not? Since the Bendis books have been major, big books.

So what? There's nothing wrong with that. That applies to all of their characters. What you don't seem to realize is that Marvel wants to make a ton of movies for a ton of their characters, that could also become hits.

None of this sounds wrong or racist.

None of this really sounds that bad. Maggot and Cecilia Reyes were not that great of characters. Prodigy was never that important of a character, and you already said they repowered him. Even depowered characters have a way of coming back.

That's good news for you then isn't it. More ammo for you as well.

1. Yes, HOM is fair game. However, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that the reason why Magneto was made the ruler of Genosha and Quicksilver was made a member of the Brotherhood was because of the HOM mini series.

2. You do realize that when I said that Bendis was the latest "flavor of the month" creator I was talking FIGUARTIVLY and NOT LITERALLY. History has shown us that creators who were popular for several or MORE years during their careers, have seen their more recent work unable to sell.

3. You said Cage was a major player in CW, and you were wrong.

4. Of course I realize that Marvel wants to make movies based on all of their characters. I never said they didn't. However, I did say that they do crap on many of their black characters.

5. While it's not wrong or racist, it does however beg the question of whether or not Marvel would have pursued a BP movie or animated seies if Snipes or Hudlin had not pushed for those projects to be made.

6. Marrow is a crappy character and yet she has been constantly used over the years. Why do white characters that are deemed to be crappy, continue to get used and/or revamped in order to be more interesting, while those black characters (who are also deemed crappy) are killed off? And I said Prodigy was "kind of repowered", NOT fully repowered.

7. Actually, if the BP animated series flops (which I'm certain that it will) and Hudlin is fired and the current BP series is canceled (and hopfully COMPLETELY retconned out of continuity) I will be a very happy camper and heep tons of praise upon Marvel. FYI, I don't look for ammo to prove Marvel or any other comic company is racist, the ammo just falls into my hands.

 

[TheVileOne]

1. Yes, HOM is fair game. However, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that the reason why Magneto was made the ruler of Genosha and Quicksilver was made a member of the Brotherhood was because of the HOM mini series.

Whatever. They are both big parts of the characters histories. It also fits the storyline because you give Magneto a whole utopian mutant colony, as well as a heavy mutant/human conflict that's about to blow up.

2. You do realize that when I said that Bendis was the latest "flavor of the month" creator I was talking FIGUARTIVLY and NOT LITERALLY. History has shown us that creators who were popular for several or MORE years during their careers, have seen their more recent work unable to sell.

Bendis seems to have outlasted the Rob Liefelds and Todd McFarlane's.

3. You said Cage was a major player in CW, and you were wrong.

Cage picking his side was a big deal. And then he ended up leading the New Avengers afterward.

4. Of course I realize that Marvel wants to make movies based on all of their characters. I never said they didn't. However, I did say that they do crap on many of their black characters.

That's PC over-sensitive ********.

5. While it's not wrong or racist, it does however beg the question of whether or not Marvel would have pursued a BP movie or animated seies if Snipes or Hudlin had not pushed for those projects to be made.

Someone like Spike Lee would say its racist if white people were the ones to do so.

6. Marrow is a crappy character and yet she has been constantly used over the years. Why do white characters that are deemed to be crappy, continue to get used and/or revamped in order to be more interesting, while those black characters (who are also deemed crappy) are killed off? And I said Prodigy was "kind of repowered", NOT fully repowered.

I haven't seen Marrow around in a long time. Also, they revamped guys like Cage and Black Panther big time.

7. Actually, if the BP animated series flops (which I'm certain that it will) and Hudlin is fired and the current BP series is canceled (and hopfully COMPLETELY retconned out of continuity) I will be a very happy camper and heep tons of praise upon Marvel. FYI, I don't look for ammo to prove Marvel or any other comic company is racist, the ammo just falls into my hands.

Yet your ammo is based on false PC crap.

 

[Angamb]

so no leaked video from San Diego?

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah sorry man. Would've been kind of hard to boot leg that 70 minutes.

I'm still hoping it will air on BBC next month and we can get some video online soon.

 

[Blade X]

Whatever. They are both big parts of the characters histories. It also fits the storyline because you give Magneto a whole utopian mutant colony, as well as a heavy mutant/human conflict that's about to blow up.

Bendis seems to have outlasted the Rob Liefelds and Todd McFarlane's.

Cage picking his side was a big deal. And then he ended up leading the New Avengers afterward.

That's PC over-sensitive ********.

Someone like Spike Lee would say its racist if white people were the ones to do so.

I haven't seen Marrow around in a long time. Also, they revamped guys like Cage and Black Panther big time.

Yet your ammo is based on false PC crap.

1. The cause and end results of HOM are a big part of the characters history's. Everything in between (the HOM warped reality) is NOT a major part of the character's history's.

2. That's because Marvel uses lots of gimmicks to keep many (NOT ALL) of Bendis books selling.

3. Cage picking a side in the Civil War and leading the New Avengers was only a big deal and important in NEW AVENGERS and NOT the CW mini series or the rest of the Marvel Univerrse.

4. No, that's a FACT. You're either too blind to see it or you are in denial.

5. Spike Lee is (a) an idiot and (b) full of crap.

6. Marrow last appeared in a couple of issues of X-FACTOR last year. Cage has not been revamped. However, BP was revamped by Priest, then Marvel allowed Hudlin (a celebrity writer) to screw the character up.

7. Please prove that everything I said is false PC crap.

 

[TheVileOne]

What's funny is you sound a lot like Spike Lee right now.

 

[Blade X]

What's funny is you sound a lot like Spike Lee right now.

Typical, whenever someone speaks out against or criticizes Marvel (or any other entertainment company for that matter) for their portrayal/handling (or lack there of) of black characters they are automatically labeled as being either (a) militant (like Spike Lee) or (b) PC.

Notice how I never labeled you an "angry white male" (because I have no idea what color you are) or say that you sound like David Duke.

 

[TheVileOne]

It's hard to believe that Marvel Comics even has a black guy working there at Comic Con this year.

 

[Blade X]

It's hard to believe that Marvel Comics even has a black guy working there in at Comic Con this year.

And it's hard to believe that Spike Lee has white people in lead roles in his movies.

 

[usagicassidy]

Oh my god are we still talking about this? Let it rest. No one else cares.

DUST got a big reaction at Comic-Con? I hate to diss my own, but some X-Fans seriously need to get a life.

We've gone back and forth on the Colossus thing. My point still stands. Historically speaking, Colossus is always the one member of the GIANT-SIZE-created X-Men who gets the shaft in animation.

Right, because Banshee, Thunderbird, and Sunfire have all had major roles. They get the shaft in EVERYTHING.

And as for Dust, maybe a lot of people are cheering for a character that they enjoy who thus far, has never appeared outside of 616 comics. It's nice to see a new representation of someone. I know if Surge or Elixir or Wallflower ever showed up, I'd wet my pants.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well Banshee did have a role in the 1990's show, but he wasn't a central character or a member of the team. Sunfire did guest star a couple times as well I think. Same as Colossus did.

And the Colossus episodes were IMHO very good episodes. They just didn't have Colossus as an X-men team member.