Wolverine and the X-men Episode 20 'Breakdown'

RaZaTrOn

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Just aired in UK, hope i don't spoil it for you guys it was a very good episode.
This showed us Cyclops from being an orphan (got a mention of Alex), through his powers manifesting, a visit from Charles and it showed us a Danger Room session with the original 4 (which was very cool).

Cyclops and Charles visited Jean, similar to how Erik and Charles did in X3.
We also saw Cyclops, hairless Beast, Angel, Iceman and Jean go up against Magneto.

Logan was in the show for about 4 mins tops. Hes was to put it bluntly just how Wolverine should be and i THINK from this it's clear that Jean is what changes him to be more of a hero.

At the end we see Jean turning into the Phoenix.

My only hope from this episode is we get an explaination as to how/why Iceman changes his look.
 
Best episode yet IMO. I watched it on the BBC iPlayer. Scott and Emma are developing solid chemistry, the flashbacks were realy interesting and fairly exciting, and the final revelation was killer!

Those who complained about Jean blowing a kiss to Logan in "Hindsight part 1" don't have any real grounds for complaint now (nor did they have any to begin with, IMO) since it's clear that it's just a goodbye kiss that's meant to be apologetic, with just a hint of longing (which I doubt Jean intended to look as though it was the reason for the kiss).
 
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Thanks for the scoop Razatron, looking forward to this episode.
 
Just watched it on the iPlayer too, so glad all the episodes are on there
 
I just compared this to the uncut version, which can be found elsewhere in another language. I watched the uncut one on mute, and the only thing that the BBC version missed out was the part where Wolverine jumps on Juggernaut - a sequence that's about 2 seconds long. It's safe to watch the BBC version of the episode, guys - that's the only thing that appeared to be cut.
 
I pretty sure i saw Wolverine jump on Juggs when i watched it on tv?
Can people from overseas not watch the bbc iplayer?

I won't be able to watch Fridays episode (seeing Watchmen) will it be on iplayer after the weekend?
 
im from ireland and i cant even view it!
 
I pretty sure i saw Wolverine jump on Juggs when i watched it on tv?

That part is not on the iPlayer, if you look.

Also, people from overseas can't watch the iPlayer and friday's episode ought to be up within a couple of hours tops of it being shown on TV.
 
Wow this show becomes better and better with each episode. This was one of the best episodes ever! Great storytelling, great action with the originals and the end was... I have no words for that.
My only disappointment was that for whole episode I hoped for the first encounter with Sinister, it was mentioned that he kidnapped Jean once and tried to experiment on her... I wanted to see Scott's first encounter with Essex, but how nicely this show started to wrap things, I think that the orphanage sequence may allude to that in some future episode.
 
Great epidode. Definitley the best one so far. I'm tryng to rip it from bbc iplayer and put it on this site so the rest of the board can view it and join in the fun. Anyone have any ideas? I love the chemistry between Cyclops and Emma. So engaging to watch. I've noticed they've been building up to that for a while. Looks like its all paying off. It was very dis-heartning to see a young Angel in this episode especially after what we saw in 'Guardian Angel'
 
I think this episode will finally silence any critiques or nitpicks left out of the show.

As much as I loved this episode, just wait for Dread.

Dread, I hope you own a wider belt because you are going to be porking out over this episode. Literally porking and chowing down.

Holy ****, just top to bottom great. A lot going on in this episode, and a lot of perspective was given. We get the X-men teaming up against the Juggernaut at first, and we get a whole origin episode devoted to Cyclops as well as the rift with him and Wolverine that drove him mad.

Scott's behavior in most of the show makes a lot more sense after this episode.

It was nice seeing the beginning of the X-men and Scott emerging as Cyclops. The Iceman thing is weird because going by episode 2, Bobby is 18. Don't have any idea what age that would make the Iceman we saw in the flashbacks, if it was Bobby. Wouldn't that make him like 11 or 12 in those clips? We never saw him ice down or really even hear him talk for that matter.
 
This episode will be like an all you can eat rib fest for Dread.
 
The pressure. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN reaches episode 20, in the home stretch of it's storyline with only about 6 episodes to go before the season finale. It also is the first episode after episode 12 to exclusively focus on Cyclops, and in a way devotes more screen time to him than even episode 12 did. As someone who has often criticized the various lack of focus or the interpretation of Cyclops in this show, of course all SHH eyes are awaiting my usual 20,000 word over-analysis of the episode.

I want to like episode 20, I really, really do. On it's merits, it has a lot going for it. Much like last episode, it focuses on one of the lessor, non-Wolverine X-Men for a change and really fleshes out where he is coming from. Angel's episode was a fall from grace and I want to say this episode depicts that from Cyclops, only that would require this Cyclops actually having something to fall from. And that is where the problem comes in. This episode basically gives you Cyclops' complete origin and leads up to the events of the pilot, "Hindsight Part 1". It gives you a lot of understanding as to where Cyclops is coming from. There is a major downside, though. In giving us that understanding, it is more than reasonable for a viewer to figure out that this interpretation of Cyclops is probably the LEAST sympathetic ever put to animation. All of those things that might have made him appealing in his 1992-1997 interpretation or in his 2000-2003 X-MEN EVOLUTION interpretation are in no way present here. In that the show has succeeded in giving us a distinctive Scott that isn't the same as the one from those prior shows. The major question I have is whether that is something to celebrate.

To sum up about 21 minutes of animation, Cyclops in this episode is revealed in this way: an orphaned, isolated introvert with a deadly power he can't turn off, Scott is shunned by the world until Xavier finds him and recruits him to his first class of X-Men. As an X-Man, Scott is completely incompetent and inept, botching routine training simulations and earning the mockery of his fellow misfits. That all changes when they recruit Jean, who completes Scott so fully that he becomes defined by her. When their co-dependent relationship is threatened by Wolverine, Scott lashes out like a cowardly, spoiled brat. Then Jean blows up.

Maybe that's an oversimplification, but not really. I'll get into it later.

The problem with this episode is that one cannot view it in isolation, but as episode 20 of a 26 episode season. That means it is viewed as a trigger to past actions by various characters during the show. In Scott's defense, this episode also paints Logan and even Xavier as being jerks in one way or another in their treatment of him. But Scott takes the jerk cake in this episode. If his obsession with Jean were any more pronounced, he would be a supervillain akin to Mad Hatter or Firefly, as depicted in Bruce Timm's Batman animated series. In fact I would argue Scott is very close to that here; being morbidly obsessed with a woman because of one's own selfish ego fulfillment needs has often been the motivation for many a supervillain in cartoons, and Scott practically straddles that line here.

The episode begins in the present, with the X-Men locked in mortal combat against the Juggernaut, who apparently escaped after their battle to sooth Tilde a few episodes ago. We see more of him and he puts up a much better showing, but I would argue this show's Juggernaut is the least imposing ever put to animation. The show has tried to be unique by not devoting an entire episode to Juggernaut's imposing rampage to build him as an unstoppable threat, since that has been done about three times before. The problem is without that, Juggernaut is little more than The Blob with muscles and a helmet, and that doesn't quite work, either. In the midst of a battle against Juggernaut alongside Frost, Iceman, Wolverine, and Nightcrawler (pretty much the X-Men who probably have the least chance of actually fazing him), Cyclops begins seeing "visions" of Jean during the fight, which distracts him. While he does land an optic blast against Juggernaut, Scott is so distracted that he is nearly crushed by a flung car, which Wolverine has to save him from. When Scott awakens in the medical wing, he is still seeing visions of Jean to the point where he mistakes Frost for her, and passionately makes out with her. Apologizing, Scott refuses, perhaps for the first time, to excuse his behavior on his turmoil, and decides to take Wolverine's advice from episode 12 and hit the road, lest he injure any more of his teammates or muck up any more missions by his afflictions (as Juggernaut escaped).

Emma Frost offers to sort through his memories and remove Jean from them, thus easing his pain. At first appalled at the idea of becoming an emotional amnesiac like Wolverine, Scott ultimately agrees to allow Frost to help him. Sitting at "The Emo Bench" (what I now call that bench at the edge of the Xavier estate where both Scott and Warren have usually sat alone when they wanted to mope and stare at sea gulls), Frost dives into Scott's mind and gets a tour of his life and times, not all of it being pretty.

The first half of it is a very complete view of Cyclops' early life, albeit without the retcons of Mr. Sinister being involved in his orphanage in the past (besides, wouldn't it be called a "group home" by the 90's?). Scott awakens as a child in the hospital, screaming out for his parents and brother. He learns from the doctor that there had been a plane crash in Alaska, and while his younger brother Alex survived, his parents did not. He also learns that he had been in a coma for approximately two years, which I thought was an interesting touch. I suppose one could argue it would explain why Scott in the future would seem immature, as he is literally two years behind men of his age in development. There is no glimpse of Alex and we learn that he had been adopted in that time, while Scott moves onto an orphanage. There, he is a shy awkward youth prone to being picked on by bullies, and one encounter ends with him shoved in the mud and unconsciously triggering his powers, blasting one punk about 50 feet into the porch of the orphanage, before another blast nearly destroys the building itself. There is a part of me that is always bemused in mutant origin stories when a mutant is being bullied by merciless tormentors who then suddenly become whimpering fops the moment it appears their victim is actually a threat to them. Afriad of his powers and deemed a threat to society, Scott winds up blindfolded and handcuffed in a holding cell until Xavier arrives to "adopt" him. Scott begins to trust him when Xavier provides the visor by which Scott can see without firing his blasts (which is never mentioned as being made of ruby quartz).

We then meet the optimistic and young "first class" of recruits, Beast (hairless), Angel (with smaller wings than his adult form, which was a nice character design touch) and Iceman (in his "snow" form). Cyclops is added to their midst and they all engage in a training simulation in the Danger Room, where Cyclops is clearly the weakest link, botching it up and being completely incompetant, earning the laughter of his fellow students. Wanting to throw in the towl, Xavier convinces Scott that he has a use yet, as he introduces him to the Grey family, whose daughter is levitating all the cars in her neighborhood via her controllable telekenesis. Xavier learns from her parents that she was disturbed by a visit from his "colleague" Erik, who has now become Magneto and beginning his war on humanity. A shy introvert herself, she starts to loosen up around the shier, more introverted Cyclops. She completes the "first class" and as Frost notes, completes Scott as he attaches to her strongly. But even that is not enough. In a battle against Magneto, who wishes to claim Jean for his Brotherhood, Magneto overwhelms the male X-Man and threatens a visor-less Cyclops with being crushed by a van if Jean does not surrender. Magneto feels that Xavier is limiting her by not allowing Jean to harness all of her true power at once; Xavier feels Magneto sees her only as a weapon, not a person. From the ending of the episode, part of me feels that while Xavier was right in a way, Magneto's warning that blocking out Jean's powers so much clearly had a downside.

Despite the fact that Magneto is clearly standing about 5 feet from Cyclops, and is talking loudly, and there is no humanly way he could miss if he just lifted his head and opened his eyes, Scott is too scared and inept to do that. He needs Jean to psychically lead him by the hand and tell him what to do, which she does. Managing to rival Magneto's mastery of the car, she helps block Scott's power long enough for him to blast Magneto, making their co-dependence set. Jean "took his pain away" as Frost puts it. All good things can't last forever, and Frost soon sees that the cog that messed up the machine of Scott's life was Wolverine.

Wolverine's introduction to the X-Men in some ways is more akin to the films than EVOLUTION surely was. The X-Men are already adults and a fully functioning team when the wayward biker berserker is introduced to the team. Time passes quickly for Scott's memories, and it can be tough estimating people's ages and how long these periods are supposed to last. Iceman as of this season is 18; in the comics he was 14 when recruited, and was their youngest member until Kitty Pryde was recruited at age 13 at a later point. We could probably squeeze Bobby in the First Class as being about 13 himself and that period without Wolverine was perhaps about 5 years, making most of the founding class besides Iceman about 23-24 years of age, with Beast being maybe 25. I suppose this works, the only problem being that most of these characters seem to look and sound older than their early to mid 20's. Granted, gauging age in animation often can be hard; distinguishing between infants, children, teenagers, adults, middled age and old age is easy, but those subtle years in between can be tough. In the 1990's X-MEN cartoon, Nightcrawler in his two appearances once claimed to be 25 years old; he certainly looked and sounded older. At any rate, that is one of those nitpick details that is fun to debate but doesn't really help or hinder the crux of the episode.

Logan immediately makes an impression and is instantly disrespectful and dismissive of Scott as he pursues Jean, who is appears fascinated by Logan but also apparently not directly returning his romantic overtures, nor his disregard for Cyclops in her life. It is at this point, though, that the episode begins to splinter from it's combined revelations about Cyclops. For the first time in his young life having a competitor for Jean's effections, Scott handles it very poorly, starting a fight with Logan. Logan refuses to fight back "over a girl" and Scott literally BLASTS HIM IN THE BACK as he was turning to leave; a cowardly, dishonorable, and unheroic gesture. It becomes even more so when Jean rushes between them and angrilly tells Scott that Wolverine wasn't fighting back because he had literally promised Jean that he wouldn't. As such, even when Logan is being his jerkiest, he still is a man of honor, while Cyclops has none. Taken in isolation, this is bad enough, but then think about all those times in the show, after Hindsight and that year of no X-Men, where Cyclops has blasted Wolverine when he was angered or for any reason; Logan could be said to STILL be honoring the vow he made to Jean, while Cyclops, who now would know it, exploits it for a cheap shot when he is rattled enough by his rival. That's not sympathetic at all. And it all goes downhill from there, just wait for it.

We then get to the point of the pilot where the mysterious explosion seems to claim both Jean and Xavier. Naturally with this extra revelation we learn that Scott was apologizing to Jean for being a possessive jerk, and Jean was naturally noting that he needed to apologize for Logan for such cheap shots in that fight against him. They wisely don't show the "blown kiss" to Logan, because it still leaves the hint that Jean was "interested", even if not enough to ditch Scott for Logan at the moment. The revelation at the end is that Jean herself caused the explosion by transforming into a "phoenix"; why is unknown. It could have been the stress of the situation, combined with years of "bottling" her potential by Xavier, finally burst like a dam from the pressure. While Xavier was found comatose in Genosha for a year, Jean has yet to be found. The audience knows she has awakened, with total amnesia.

From this point, even without having read some more synopsis' than I should have, we can tell the show will be doing the Dark Phoenix thing; with Frost in the cast, the fact that the Hellfire Club may show up at some point is almost a no-brainer. The only problem with this is that the Dark Phoenix only has emotional weight if you got to know and care about Jean as a normal character under her normal self for a while before seeing her become corrupted by her own power. In the 90's series, we had about two seasons and change to get there. Even in X-MEN EVOLUTION, which had a tease of this with an episode where Jean's powers flared out of control due to the stress of Scott and Duncan Matthews competing for her affections, that still gave us a season and change beforehand (and the show didn't even hint at the full Phoenix stuff until the series finale, where it may have happened in a theoretical Season 5, had there been one). This show expects you to care enough about Jean after one episode to have such a shift in her character have emotional weight, and I don't think they succeeded. This show's writers/producers has often sought "shortcuts"; ditching building up the fundamentals of the X-Men that you "already know" to dive into the action, presuming the audience has much knowledge of the characters while being free to change it for their benefits, as this show is their own interpretation. These shortcuts have consequences. One can only react to Pheonix from Scott's perspective, and maybe some of the other X-Men, but not from Jean's herself. It may be intentional, but it may not be wise. Still, it was an effective cliffhanger.

But now comes the rough part, taking this episode together as a whole and in context. The show's writers and producers frequently miss the forest for the trees, and expect their audience to do so, but I usually don't. As with any show about some 35-45 year old comic book characters, every incarnation is open to interpretation and all that. One can take various angles that have been written about the characters and run with it. For Cyclops, the writers of this show have chosen to fulfill every assumption that many in the audience have about Scott, in that he is, in so many words, a needy, teachers pet *****e. Cyclops in this show has NEVER been a good leader; hell, he was a barely competent X-Man until Jean came along. While Jean was shy and introverted herself, but alongside the emotionally crippled Scott, she was practically an extrovert and came out of her shell a bit. Scott needed Jean, and Xavier, to coddle him and hold his hand with every bump in the road or inconvenience, to give him "gold stars" and whatnot. In some ways this matches Joss Whedon's assessment of Scott in his ASTONISHING X-MEN run, in that Whedon wrote Scott as being a generic X-Man with virtually no will or confidence who would have left the team had Xavier not given him the "merit badge" of leadership that he never had to actually earn, and whenever he tried, he lost. In this show, one wonders if Scott ever was truly a leader at all, or was simply assumed to be one because Xavier invested so much into him.

Then Wolverine comes along, and what has happened? He has done what Cyclops never could; reformed the team without either of them in a commanding position and, through thick and thin, through triumph and tragedy, even without changing his own nature to randomly break out into the open road after having a nightmare or two, held the team together. Logan is selfless when he has to be, and cares for the good of the team, and the ideal of Xavier's message. Wolverine IS Mr. X-Man as he was in the start of the pilot, embodying everything that the school is about deep in his heart, which Scott is obviously unable and unwilling to do, because he is too caught up in his own needs. Without Jean or Xavier to coddle his ego, Scott retreated and allowed the X-Men to disband, and needed to be pulled by the hair for most of his early missions, and would have left at least Storm to die otherwise. Scott's desperate attachment to Jean to fulfill his own emotional turmoil and lack of esteem is so strong that he is willing to place the X-Men in danger, whether by losing focus during a fight with Juggernaut or in picking a fight with Mr. Sinister that the X-Men ultimately must rescue him from. While Wolverine has Xavier's emotional support, he was able to reassemble the team without it, and has led the team without it on rare occasion as well. Cyclops never has, and never will. At least that is the impression one gets of Cyclops after this revealing episode. In W&TXM, when Logan rips into Scott for being a "teacher's pet" or being a weak willed chump in so many words, unlike in other shows, Logan is absolutely correct; when Logan dismisses Scott as being "not good enough" for Jean, he is right there, too. This may indeed be different than other X-Men cartoons, but is it better? Is it truly a triumph to actually write Cyclops as being the dick that many dismiss him as? It is a triumph for Logan to actually be right that Jean is basically just waiting for him, and Scott is just a step in the way for her?

Some may dismiss this and go, "oh, the comics wrote Scott like this a few times, too". The comics always have runs that are not the best to emulate. Barely 15 years ago, Spider-Man was written as a bitter, near psychotic who called himself "The Spider" and literally slapped his wife MJ, leaving her cowering on the floor. In some ways this bit was even immortalized in film in SPIDER-MAN 3. But would you ever see a cartoon that proudly wrote Spider-Man as being willing and able to smack his girlfriends when he gets frustrated enough? Hell no! Most see that story as a mistaken blip in another wise stable and well written character, and dismiss it completely. Choosing to interpret a character from their worst possible perspective does not a good character make.
 
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Second part of my review. I sure do go on for a while.

Cyclops may have a fair reason for being an esteem lacking emotional cripple who makes those closest to him suffer for his loss, but that doesn't mean that I automatically sympathize with it. Carnage was molested as a child, but does that justify his murders? Mad Hatter, in B:TAS, was a sad little man who couldn't handle yet another rejection; did that justify him brainwashing the object of his desire? It is very, very hard to actually root for a "hero" who is desperately needy to the point where he abandons all of his friends and is willing to exploit dishonorable advantages against his rival. Logan, even at his worst, proved to be a man of honor; not Scott at all. You can't root for someone who blasts Wolverine in the back, you just can't. In fact I would argue that it wouldn't take much of a rewrite at this point to make Cyclops a villain; maybe Mark Millar had that idea when in his launch of Ultimate X-Men he had Scott join the Brotherhood out of disgust with Logan bedding Jean (if ever so briefly). We all have a choice in life, and Cyclops as presented in this show has chosen poorly at every juncture of his life that counted; we all know people like that, and we rarely root for them. Wolverine in this show has usurped everything Scott is normally known for, and Scott in return is the character equal of a crumpled soda can.

In interpretations where Wolverine is the angsty loner, he still is usually written as someone who has hope for Xavier's cause, a man of honor, and a team player when it really counts. Cyclops is none of those things now that the roles have been "switched". Is it really a fair switch? Wolverine is awesome as leader and rebel, and Scott is stiff as leader and pathetic dipstick as rebel? "Code of Conduct" showed that Logan will honor the promise he makes to a woman virtually forever, even when he doesn't understand the full circumstances. Cyclops wouldn't even bother with Xavier's mission after five years of gold stars and merit badges. This episode, if anything, showcases what a failure of an X-Man Cyclops is in this show. He may as well just leaped off the cliff at this rate.

In Scott's defense, he isn't the only jerk of the episode. Logan naturally comes off as a typical aggressive biker in his beginning phase and the fact that he gladly came between Jean and Scott the instant he arrived, and now has dismissed Jean completely since her disappearance only to have romantic tensions with Mystique and Mariko later on, really make Logan seem like a "notch on the bedpost" style jerk with women. Of course, Logan didn't recall his affair with Mystique until later, and Mariko came before Jean in his life, but Logan has never even seemed to mourn her loss one instant, and usually yelled at Scott for his obsessions. And Xavier comes off as a jerk, although not exactly in this episode, but what has come after. Full knowing Scott's past and surely being more than aware of the emotional turmoil that Scott much be without Jean or Xavier to coddle him, Future Xavier is completely throwing his weight between Logan. There have been times Logan has been distressed emotionally by his past or by an error in a mission, and Future Xavier has always been there to soothe him, while emotionally abandoning Scott to his fate. The downside of this episode, though, is now that choice seems practical. Cyclops could barely cut it during better times; why the hell would Future X bank on such a loser now, with Logan being Captain Universe X-Man, fulfilling everything about the school that Xavier wanted? In Brian K. Vaughan's THE OATH, there is one bit where it is revealed that Ancient One hedged his bets by training other students besides Stephan Strange; in some ways I wonder if that is what Xavier is doing. He knows Scott well enough to know he'll never stand tall in a crisis, so better to go with a winner, right? While that may be practical, it makes Xavier seem very cold as a person. Magneto, by contrast, at least genuinely loves 2 out of his 3 children in this show.

In fact there has only been one person in the entire show who hasn't emotionally abandoned Cyclops, and that is Emma Frost. Out of any character, she is the one who comes off as truly sympathetic in this episode, and despite the fact that she likely will turn evil and then die, in that order, later on, I found myself feeling very sorry for her. She is the only one in this show who has said more than two words to Scott when he has needed them. The other X-Men are disappointed at Scott's turmoil, and Logan berates him for it, but Emma at least seems to want to understand him better, and defends him (even to Scott himself). She seems more than aware how desperately needy Scott is, but is trying to provide it. Frost was hardly disturbed by Scott kissing her, even if he apologized after as if she were radioactive waste. At virtually every point Frost has tried to coax and help Cyclops get over his loss and obsession with Jean, but all Cyclops sees in her is a convenient psychic to track Jean with. He's clearly using her, maybe without realizing it, but Frost is willing to enter that role for some sort of chance the dipstick will catch on. The sad irony of it all is that unlike Jean, Frost is in no way interested in Logan and Scott would have little to fear from his rival in that regard. Hardly being a shy introvert as Jean started as, it may be Frost who could finally get Scott to show a little backbone and evolve into half the leader Logan is in this show, because Frost doesn't have nearly as many scruples. She is Peppermint Patty to Jean's Little Red Haired Girl, who Scott's Charlie Brown is so obsessed with that he misses everything else. Despite the fact that Cyclops is a needy, obsessive, pathetic X-Man, Frost sees something to love in him anyway, but Scott doesn't see that at all. His vision's as red as Jean's hair. Frost may almost have it worse than Gwen in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN.

The episode's start with the fight against Juggernaut was pretty good, even the BBC version with the minor edit. The animation is very good and the voice acting by everyone involved was top notch; North sold the lines he had and so did everyone else. It was great to see the happier teenage X-Men of the founding class, especially Angel after last episode. The fight with Magneto, who Tom Kane really masters, was also good. The cliffhanger was also awesome, really got me psyched for the next episodes. Kari Whalgren is really excelling as the voice of Emma Frost, and Jennifer Hale, a very reliable voice actress, finally gets some decent lines and bits to have for Jean and her performance as the veteran X-Woman is quite good. There are some subtle bits of animation here included in the fight sequences, including the fear in the First Class' faces upon facing Magneto for the first time.

The only problem with the episode is that it proves that Logan is truly the best leader for the X-Men as well as their best embodiment of their message, and that Cyclops is too crippled by his past and personal failures to ever be more than a background figure who has never met his potential. He's needy, jealous, insecure, and willing to use dishonorable tactics against his rival. Consciously or not he's exploiting Frost for nothing more than her power and his own need for attention. While this episode makes him easier to understand, it didn't make him sympathetic in the slightest. It is frankly amazing that many of the same writers and producers who created the EVOLUTION interpretation of Cyclops who was so easy to like and understand in 2000 when I was fresh out of high school and still a fairly devoted Wolverine fanboy would return 5 years after the end of Evolution to craft a version who is almost unlikeable, who succumbs to every single flaw and nitpick non-Cyclops fans have of the character. Maybe Kid's WB forced them to focus on Scott due to his age and position via network demands, and this is how they really see Cyclops? Who knows.

Episode 20 is a good episode taken in isolation and on it's own merits and performances. Taken as a part of the larger story and tale of the X-Men, though, it simply proves why Wolverine should be leader, and why Cyclops is a perennial sad sack.

I would say I wouldn't mind Beast having a focus episode at some point. He seems to get precious few of them in animation, even if he does appear frequently.
 
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I really don't like this episode. To me it feels like a re-imagining of Scott Summer's back story which leads to the reveal of what happened in the beginning of the series. I don't think anyone is wrong for liking this episode, but Scott Summers and Jean Grey are 2 of my favorite marvel characters ever and I don't feel like this episode did the characters justice. The characterizations in this episode is very X-men movie inspired. I understand the difference between entertainment and the comics and I know I'm biased for things like this, but I wouldn't blame any fan of any character for disliking an episode like this for their favorite character. I didn't understand the need to look into Scott's past and then completely overlook his history with Mr. Sinister. Also when he was training with Beast, Angel, and Iceman it came off too me like he had just joined and the other 3 were already there. It's kind of a big deal that he was the first recruit, but they never said he wasn't thats just how the scene came off to me. I really didn't like this episode it just plays into the whole Jean really belongs with Logan theory. I really didn't like this episode I can't say that enough.
 
I really don't like this episode. To me it feels like a re-imagining of Scott Summer's back story which leads to the reveal of what happened in the beginning of the series. I don't think anyone is wrong for liking this episode, but Scott Summers and Jean Grey are 2 of my favorite marvel characters ever and I don't feel like this episode did the characters justice. The characterizations in this episode is very X-men movie inspired. I understand the difference between entertainment and the comics and I know I'm biased for things like this, but I wouldn't blame any fan of any character for disliking an episode like this for their favorite character. I didn't understand the need to look into Scott's past and then completely overlook his history with Mr. Sinister. Also when he was training with Beast, Angel, and Iceman it came off too me like he had just joined and the other 3 were already there. It's kind of a big deal that he was the first recruit, but they never said he wasn't thats just how the scene came off to me. I really didn't like this episode it just plays into the whole Jean really belongs with Logan theory. I really didn't like this episode I can't say that enough.

I understand your position.

Before this episode, one was under the impression that Cyclops had become a shell of himself, a Has-Been, due to losing Jean. This episode basically tells you that Cyclops is not a Has-Been, but a Never Was. He was an incompetent X-Man before Jean and needed to be led by the hand by her and Xavier to be a good one after. He was handed a title of leadership that he never had to earn, or at least it was presumed he was, and the first time he faces competition he lashes out like a cowardly spoiled brat.

Take this episode alongside the others, and it becomes even more clear that Logan is the embodiment of everything that is the X-Men, and everything that Cyclops never was. He wasn't so needy that he become obsessed about a woman; in fact he barely cares that Jean is MIA. He reassembled the X-Men without Xavier and leads the team because Scott never could.

This in some ways is, as you say, akin to the films, that preached that Wolverine is Mister X-Men and that Cyclops was just the inconvenient and incompetent seat-warmer for Logan's eventual position. He is such a non-factor that no one cares about his turmoil by the end, and Xavier has completely dismissed him. In some ways that is similar to what has happened here.

The producers/writers have a right to "reimagine" the characters they have. It just is a shame they have reimagined a Cyclops that is rather unsympathetic and useless. They've done everything in their power to proclaim to the TV audience by now that Wolverine is the perfect leader and X-Man, and that Cyclops doesn't even deserve to spit on his spats. It makes me truly wonder how much of X-MEN EVOLUTION was the network and what was the writers/producers at this point. Of course, Steven E. Gordon also had more control of that show as well, I believe. I can't believe many of the same writers responsible for the incarnation of Cyclops from 2000-2003's EVOLUTION that helped me really enjoy and appreciate the character for the first time in my life are now responsible for perhaps the most unlikeable and flawed version that W&TXM has now presented. Cyclops was often stiff in the 90's series, but he wasn't downright incompetent, petty, or needy, and he wasn't as easily dismissed.

This version of Cyclops, basically, seeks to be unique by proving right all of those things that Logan digs at Cyclops for; about being a teacher's pet, or unworthy of Jean. And in my book, while that may be unique, it isn't sympathetic, and that is a problem.

Emma Frost is coming out like a rose, though. Especially for her first time being animated in 11 years in a role that isn't straight up villain, as it was in 1989's PRYDE OF THE X-MEN and the third season of the 90's show.
 
I honestly stopped typing before I started rambling I'm not great with words but you basically hit the nail on the head. I'm not mad just disappointed that this is what they decided Cyclops was for this show. and if you've seen the last episode of this season[BLACKOUT]It seems like he goes right back to Jean after Emma sacrifices herself to save him.[/BLACKOUT] and that makes me feel bad for Emma like you said above. Emma Frost is a character I've never really liked in the comics. But she is completely getting screwed here in every way.
 
I honestly stopped typing before I started rambling I'm not great with words but you basically hit the nail on the head. I'm not mad just disappointed that this is what they decided Cyclops was for this show. and if you've seen the last episode of this season[BLACKOUT]It seems like he goes right back to Jean after Emma sacrifices herself to save him.[/BLACKOUT] and that makes me feel bad for Emma like you said above. Emma Frost is a character I've never really liked in the comics. But she is completely getting screwed here in every way.

A fate such as that is hardly permanent for X-Men characters. Just ask Psylocke, Colossus, Jean herself, even Wolverine.

To cover another point, yes, this episode didn't note the 80's-90's retcon that Mr. Sinister was involved in Scott's life when he moved to the orphanage in Nebraska. In this show, Mr. Sinister is only interested/obsessed in Jean Grey, not Cyclops. If Mr. Sinister was obsessed with Scott for his power, too, that would mean he was actually worth something.

No cartoon to date, by the way, has mentioned Mr. Sinister's role in Cyclops' childhood, it is worth noting.

Honestly, the problems with this show have nothing to do with the character designs, which mostly are strong; the animation, which is usually good, or the voice acting, which is often very strong. Hell, I can even forgive some downright mediocre action scene storyboarding at times. It's the writing that is dropping the ball often.

Again, I just fail to see what is the point of establishing this incarnation of Cyclops as being genuinely so lackluster and weak, and literally fulfilling all the nasty digs Logan usually mumbles. Wolverine is akin to Batman; you really don't need to work overtime to make him seem "cool" because he is already so popular that even shoddy writing won't turn anyone off. THE BATMAN was usually not written well beyond one or two seasons out of 5, and it still lasted quite a while. It is those lessor characters like Cyclops, those characters where if they are botched can turn off fans to them for a generation, it is those characters that extra care has to be taken to.

In WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, to compare it to the play ROMEO AND JULIET, Cyclops would be Count Paris. No one roots or feels pity for Paris. This may be "unique" compared to past cartoons, but I fail to see what it accomplishes other than to add hype to the already overhyped Wolverine and to make the audience side with him in arguments with Scott.
 
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How are you guys watching this? A repeat aired on YTV today, and I'm not in the UK so I can't watch it on the BBC iPlayer... does anyone know when it'll air on YTV?

Looks like a really good episode though.
 
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A fate such as that is hardly permanent for X-Men characters. Just ask Psylocke, Colossus, Jean herself, even Wolverine.

To cover another point, yes, this episode didn't note the 80's-90's retcon that Mr. Sinister was involved in Scott's life when he moved to the orphanage in Nebraska. In this show, Mr. Sinister is only interested/obsessed in Jean Grey, not Cyclops. If Mr. Sinister was obsessed with Scott for his power, too, that would mean he was actually worth something.

No cartoon to date, by the way, has mentioned Mr. Sinister's role in Cyclops' childhood, it is worth noting.

Honestly, the problems with this show have nothing to do with the character designs, which mostly are strong; the animation, which is usually good, or the voice acting, which is often very strong. Hell, I can even forgive some downright mediocre action scene storyboarding at times. It's the writing that is dropping the ball often.

Agreed I doubt she will be gone long, and I can see why they might skip over that Scott's History with Sinister. I just find it odd to do a whole episode devoted to his character's growth or nongrowth in this shows case and completetely over look that part now. Maybe Chuck just suppressed/erased the memory or the writers just really don't care about his character's mythos. but you're right it is the writing that is the problem in most cases for this show.



How are you guys watching this? A repeat aired on YTV today, and I'm not in the UK so I can't watch it on the BBC iPlayer... does anyone know when it'll air on YTV?

Looks like a really good episode though.


I watch them on youtube they usually get posted up on there within a few hours/days of their airing
 
Agreed I doubt she will be gone long, and I can see why they might skip over that Scott's History with Sinister. I just find it odd to do a whole episode devoted to his character's growth or nongrowth in this shows case and completetely over look that part now. Maybe Chuck just suppressed/erased the memory or the writers just really don't care about his character's mythos. but you're right it is the writing that is the problem in most cases for this show.

The writing is frustrating. The writing team is clearly capable of good stuff, whether in a few standout episodes of this show, or in other shows like X-MEN EVOLUTION and so on. What they are not is consistent. Compared to SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, this show is as deep as a kiddy pool.

The irony of it all is that making Cyclops this much of a loser does Wolverine no favors, either. Why? Because it makes his accomplishment of being the rag tag leader a useless accomplishment. Cyclops, at least in the eyes of this episode and show, could NEVER cut it. He was NEVER a leader or even a decent X-Man before or during Jean. If Cyclops is the measuring stick to which Logan's leadership tenure is to be compared, than there is no comparison. And that is BORING. But this show has made that mistake again and again and again and again AND AGAIN. Rather than risk the possibility of Logan not being the best there is at everything in exchange for character depth and pathos, they instead cater the entire show to him and bending over backwards to tell us how awesomely awesome he is, and that hinders most of the side characters in particular and even Logan himself in the long run.

I always find it bemusing when people claim Cyclops is boring because he is "Mr. Perfect X-Man", yet when that is drained from him and Wolverine basically becomes the same thing, that is supposed to be terrific writing incarnate.

I've read and watched some interviews that Kyle and Johnson gave about the show via DVD extras and whatnot, and I often feel there are two shows; the TV show they imagine or intend to produce, and what they have actually written and produced, and what I am watching. They envisioned a show in which the X-Men team was in disharmony and disjointed at Logan's leadership, because he's not a good leader. What we actually got was a show where the X-Men, beyond an occasional wisecrack, always follow Logan's orders and never disobey or question him, and any errors or mishaps he happens to create are meaningless because the situation always happens to correct itself and make said error meaningless. No one calls Wolverine on his errors or bungles, either. Logan takes responsibility for himself, but without other characters reacting, it isn't enough.

But after this episode, maybe I know why this team isn't disjointed; it was because Cyclops was no leader to begin with, so Logan isn't replacing anything; he is filling a seat that was kept warm for him but was never used. Again, much like the films, it is the entire X-Universe catered to Wolverine for Wolverine to sell us on Wolverine and he honestly is more interesting without as much ham fisted selling. You don't need to make Cyclops a hapless lifelong obsessed loser to have him in turmoil over Jean now. Making him a Never Was ended up far worse than being a Has Been. I could have sympathy for a Has Been. The fact that he is everything Logan isn't, including dishonorable and irresponsible, is only the icing on the **** cake.

It is as if this show and episode were written to cater to fans who already hate Cyclops and don't want to stop, but wouldn't mind understanding why they feel he is a jerk. Which is fine if you are in that community.

I am hesitant to be hard on the film franchise, at least the first, for hedging their bets with Wolverine since in 1999, when X-MEN was in production, there was no guarantee that it would be a blockbuster hit. Focusing on the X-Men's most well known and popular member was shrewd. But when he began to dominate the spotlight at the expense of all other characters, especially Cyclops and especially in X-MEN 3, that is when things got really bad. And that is why after age 19 or so I have often become disgusted with Wolverine, his writers, and some of his fans. No other character in the X-Men franchise is as selfish and needy, ironically, as Wolverine. No other character literally demands that every single distinctive thing any other character had before MUST be handed to Wolverine by birthright. Wolverine wasn't always this way, and that was when he was genuinely interesting and enjoyable. Now he is Kobe Bryant, a character that only seems to excel because all others cater to him or fail to measure up, and that he demands that he be the only member of the team who can do well, and that is ****ing boring, but most writers are too blinded by their own worship to see that. Wolverine's a complete hog and no other character is ever allowed to measure up to him for one nanosecond or do/be anything that he doesn't already embody perfectly. That isn't good writing. It is amateur fan fiction.

And I know very well the writers are capable of much better and have delivered it often enough in their collaborative efforts, so I only become more frustrated. This entire show is very frustrating. If you only want to see trees, it has some very pretty trees. But if you want a forest, you are **** out of luck, because one tree always must be tallest and get the best light. And judging by the ratings response around the world for this show, it is clear that this sort of Wolverine circle jerk by the writers is what the majority of mainstream audiences want, so the rest of us who wouldn't mind deeper characters, including a Wolverine who is more than simply Red Ranger with a growl, are clearly in the back of the bus.

Sadly, it doesn't have to be this way. As a child I was biggest Wolverine fanboy you could find who eventually came to appreciate other characters of the X-Men mythos and ironically liked Wolverine in stories before he basically became Goku Super Sayien Level 4. Can't other Wolverine fans and writers learn to share?
 
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lol you're so right and I wish it didn't have to be that way. They've stripped Wolverine of the bad a$$ personality that made him cool in the first place. He's always the bad boy and in the X-movies and this show he's not the bad boy. sure it made him popular but its not the same character. I'm a pretty big Punisher fan, and I'd love to see Frank Castle become more popular, but I wouldn't want them to completely change what he is to make him cool. For me as a fan looking at other fans I can't see how a Wolverine fan can be excited for him being a completely different character. yeah he's got the costume and the claws, but in the comic now so doe Daken. Daken ain't Wolverine. for example a lot of people don't like Batman Brave and The Bold. they think its stupid, the worst batman cartoon ever, an insult to BTAS, and all other kinds of things. but honestly its still batman he's in character he's just not the same as BTAS. Wolverine is a whole different character in this show.
 
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I think you guys are letting your personal biases cloud your judgement.

This isn't 616 Cyclops. It's not 90's Cyclops. It's not Evolution Cyclops. The same things have not happened.

I also didn't find Cyclops in the 90's show to be this excellent sympathetic version of the character. I often found him to be quite annoying and stiff. The Cyclops in this show at least has some more depth and personality now.
 
lol you're so right and I wish it didn't have to be that way.

I wish it didn't have to be that way, either.

I think you guys are letting your personal biases cloud your judgement.

This isn't 616 Cyclops. It's not 90's Cyclops. It's not Evolution Cyclops. The same things have not happened.

I also didn't find Cyclops in the 90's show to be this excellent sympathetic version of the character. I often found him to be quite annoying and stiff. The Cyclops in this show at least has some more depth and personality now.

They've happened in real life and Kyle & Johnson are trying to make this show distinctive without "copying" what they did in Evolution or what was in the 90's show (which has stood the test of time).

W&TXM's Cyclops has perfectly good reasons for being incompetent, petty, selfish, irresponsible, dishonorable, jealous, morbidly obsessed with Jean, and a complete and total failure as a man and an X-Man, as this episode showed. My thing is that I don't think the twist of making Cyclops a completely unsympathetic character who fulfills and embodies every insult and disrespectful comment Logan has ever had for him even before he met Logan does him or Wolverine any favors. It merely caters to the "Wolverine is the perfect X-Man and leading the X-Men and Jean's panties were always waiting for him, Cyke is just this jerk who is in the way" crowd, which has been indulged far enough with movies and about 15 years of comic books.

Maybe you think Cyclops as Prince Paris compared to Logan's Romeo and Jean's Juliet is somehow "deep", but I don't.
 

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