Wolverine sucks

[Fading]

Wolverine worked very well as the underdog.

Remember when he took out the Hellfire club, one by one only using his wits and skills? The short, hairy guy who was desperately in love with a woman, who never even considered him, since he had a pretty boy with cool glasses all over her? The sad man, the outcast, among the outcasts? Who still obviously deeply respected Scott and Xavier, even though he behave pretty assholish with them? The guy who got schooled by Scott in a monthly basis, and it made us like him more.

That was a Wolvie I could root for. Sometimes he took in so much damage his healing factor couldn't handle it, and Jubilee had to save his ass, getting him to a safe place where he healed for weeks if not months.

I liked that guy. He was the rough warrior with a golden heart. If I had to pick an x-man to go drink some bears with, it would've been him.

Not today's Wolvie though. The jerk regenerated fully from a skeleton in a minute a few weeks ago. It's been stated various times he could take the hole X-men. The guy who made the juggernaut trembling with fear for some reason, and was an ass about it. The guy who gets more ass than a toilet seat, since for some reason, he became irresistable in the last decade. And - shock - he is being really arrogant about it.

This Logan can go **** himself for all I care. That's why I'm all for his Wheadon treatment. Sure, he uses him as a comic relief, but even then, he is returning him to his roots - He is not a too complicated guy. A fighter. He likes beer. He is not a warrior god.

And if we talking feats, Spidey owned the whole X-men by himself, including Wolverine in the secret wars.
(But so did Cyclops when they were brainwashed, but later a powerless Storm defeated him, so you can never know )

I do miss the old Wolverine but I still like him. I loved that Hellfire story, and agreed that him fighting wave after wave hopelessly was far more awe inspiring than him healing from nothing but a skeleton. I also have both the Wolverine, and Cyclops vs. the X-Men stories, both good books. Cyclops lead them around and used their various weaknesses, and the Danger Room, great showing for him. Wolverine took a Pheonix TK blast, Storm Lightning, Full on Cyke blast, Banshee scream (comic said none of them held back), and got back up to get hit by Collosus. I loved that fight too tho, cause he got up again and predicted nightcrawlers teleporting and grabbed him, took a ride and came out knocking him out. Ended with Messmero saying that Wolverine was going toe to toe with all of them for hours, and it was going back and forth and boring him, and he made them all go to sleep, Wolverine took a few steps after the rest were down and passed out.

 

[Fading]

I think it just boils down to what's extreme and shocking now wasn't back then. Wolverine getting his skin nearly burnt off, and living and slowly healing was prob almost too much for comics back then. Now you can watch a person getting shot either an actor or in real life by turning to a news station. I think comic writers are grasping deeper and deeper to shock readers and peak interest. Doesn't mean it's tasteful, or it's improving the character as it's not, but all characters are going that way. Wolverine heals from a skeleton, Spiderman evolves while eating a mans head and grows 'claws', Stark gets extremis and starts a war, Reed Richards suddenly becomes a neglectful father and imprisons his friends in the negative zone despite his continuity saying he'd do otherwise, Superman dies, Batman's back is broken. All characters are suffering a bit now from it, and hopefully they'll pull back a bit and realize a good storyline trumps controversial shock and awe moments anyday.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I miss Wolverine since before #114 of his own series.

That said, in a fight between him and Spidey it all boils down to this: who is th' writer a fan of? If he's a Spidey fan, Spidey will win. If he's a Wolvie fan, Wolvie. If he's neutral, draw. Simply.

 

[Varient]

Comment
(Because I think for the most part I should stay out of this one.)

Saying that Wolverine can tag a superspeedster ergo he can tag Spiderman is as silly as saying that Duck hunter using a shotgun can shoot down a F16.

Ignoring the CANON that sez that Spiderman's Spidersense DOESN'T go off when he is attacked by friends or teamates does not legitamize any sort of superior ability on wolverines part on being able to CUT HIM IN A SPARRING Match.

Ignoring CANON that has Spiderman being able to powder Brick and dent steel with his punches,.. wail on the Hulk untill his Gloves are rags and his knuckles bloody WITHOUT BROKEN BONES - by saying that he would break his bones against someone who weighs 1/6 the weight of the Hulk?

Not mentioning that WOLVERINE HIMSELF has said that the ONLY WAY he is able to beat Spiderman if they fight is BECAUSE SPIDEY ALWAYS HOLDS BACK.

Sorry,.. but in a serious dust up between the two Spiderman will win most of the time,.. if he ever wanted to kill wolverine,.. all he has to do is grab him,.. web his hands behind his back,.. then web him so he can't breathe.

I'm not a fan boy of either,.. but I'm tired of folk putting wolverine up their in power with the ThunderGod or Sentry in unbeatability.

Not even "comic reality."

 

[fifthfiend]

Honestly not sure, I've read older Hulk comics, but can't remember many of them needing him to use a healing factor, his skin simply reflected most dmg. I think it was first in a Wolverine vs. Hulk fight, where Hulk was Grey Hulk, it was revealed Wolverine was hurting Hulk all along but Hulk was healing the dmg so fast it looked like no dmg was done. That might have been near the start of it. I know he's survived his skin being burnt off and healed it in 3 panels 10 or so years ago like it was nothing, and has been gutted a few years back and held his intestines in with his hand and his skin grew around his hand. That's some pretty impressive healing, but nothing that old, some Hulk buffs around here hopefully can answer that.

As for Doom and Thing, Things not always been as strong, his strength has crept up over the years. Not sure of the exact issue you mean as I haven't read it, but he did start out around 5 ton str. Then around when he fought Superskrull the first time I believe he was around 20 ton str, as Superskrull still had Things origional str later on and I think Thing was much stronger, but not entirely sure on that. Now Thing is class 85 or so ton str I believe, if not closer to class 100. At the time tho Thing prob was closer to Doom's strength, and Doom hasn't improved drasitically in str like Thing has.

Not that I don't realize the not-discernably-far-from-zero chances of this, but what I'd really like to see is all the comic book companies get together and reset all their heroes' power levels, right across the board. So Hulk or Superman lifting say, ten tons is upper-level badass, the Flash generally runs somewhere inside the speed of sound, Wolverine can take a few bullets and keep moving but not an entire army, and so on.

I mean in a comics universe where everybody is a super-steroid pumped invincible demigod badass, how can anybody ever do anything convincingly, inspiringly heroic? At some point you'd think they could just say okay, enough is enough.

 

[Horrorfan]

FYI, Wolvie beat Spiderman in the Wolverine vs Spiderman one shot, which is their only real toe to toe battle, as opposed to minor skirmishes.

 

[Sloth7d]

Wolverine also defeated Submariner, Vision, and Human torch before. But I don't take it seriously.

 

[Horrorfan]

Wolverine also defeated Submariner, Vision, and Human torch before. But I don't take it seriously.

Yeah but the fight was written well and ''realistically'', it wasnt the unbeatable wolverine of today. even as a huge wolverine fanboy i know theres some people he just shouldnt be able to beat. i dont know much about vision, i do think he could beat human torch, but how the heck did he beat namor????

 

[Sloth7d]

Yeah but the fight was written well and ''realistically'', it wasnt the unbeatable wolverine of today. even as a huge wolverine fanboy i know theres some people he just shouldnt be able to beat. i dont know much about vision, i do think he could beat human torcher, but how the heck did he beat namor????

I don't know. He mentions it in the vendetta arc.
And I didn't read the comic you mentioned but in terms of abilities-
speed-
Spiderman can move 15 times faster than normal people.
Wolverine is just about faster than a peak human
feat goes to spiderman

strenth-
Spiderman is in the 15 ton category
Wolverine maybe maxes out at 1000 pounds max
feat goes to Spiderman

durability-
Wolverine has adamantium in his bones and an off the wall healing factor
Spidermans strenth has helped him survive a number of things from falling off roof tops to hit by rhinos.
But this feat easily goes to Wolverine despite that.
Though I will mention while his healing factor may keep him from dying if someones strong enough they can knock him out.


other abilities-
Wolverine has claws but you need to be able to hit the guy for the to work.
Spiderman can attack from long range and go aerial using webbing to slow down and disorient Wolvy.
Spiderman and Wolvy can climb walls through different means. Though Spiderman can more naturally I'd say.
Spiderman has sting-- er wait.... forget I said that
Spidermans spidersense can tell him if wolverine is about to attack and from what direction before it happens. I'd say that killed any realistic chance of Wolverine winning if the other feats didn't convince.

I also heard someone mention that Wolverine said Spiderman could easily beat him if he didn't hold back on him. Which I'm guessing is the case in the comic you read. That or bad writing.

 

[kytrigger]

Yeah but the fight was written well and ''realistically'', it wasnt the unbeatable wolverine of today. even as a huge wolverine fanboy i know theres some people he just shouldnt be able to beat. i dont know much about vision, i do think he could beat human torch, but how the heck did he beat namor????

Vision should be able to kick his ass. He can do the whole intangible thing so Woverine couldn't really hurt him and the become tangible when his arms is through Wolverine's heart.

As for Human Torch, I think it depends on the location. If they are outside, Torch could just fly around blasting him, but his mobility is screwed if the fight is indoors. He could still go supernova, but I could see Wolverine getting to him in time to do damage.

As for Namor, i agree, he should never beat him, unless he's been in the desert for a month straight.

 

[wobbly]

Out of curiousity has there been any explanation at all so far as to how Wolverine's healing factor has been boosted from being tough to kill to virtually impossible?

And I'm with GyLocke, I preferred the character as he was years ago to how he is presented now.

 

[Horrorfan]

I don't know. He mentions it in the vendetta arc.
And I didn't read the comic you mentioned but in terms of abilities-
speed-
Spiderman can move 15 times faster than normal people.
Wolverine is just about faster than a peak human
feat goes to spiderman

strenth-
Spiderman is in the 15 ton category
Wolverine maybe maxes out at 1000 pounds max
feat goes to Spiderman

durability-
Wolverine has adamantium in his bones and an off the wall healing factor
Spidermans strenth has helped him survive a number of things from falling off roof tops to hit by rhinos.
But this feat easily goes to Wolverine despite that.
Though I will mention while his healing factor may keep him from dying if someones strong enough they can knock him out.


other abilities-
Wolverine has claws but you need to be able to hit the guy for the to work.
Spiderman can attack from long range and go aerial using webbing to slow down and disorient Wolvy.
Spiderman and Wolvy can climb walls through different means. Though Spiderman can more naturally I'd say.
Spiderman has sting-- er wait.... forget I said that
Spidermans spidersense can tell him if wolverine is about to attack and from what direction before it happens. I'd say that killed any realistic chance of Wolverine winning if the other feats didn't convince.

I also heard someone mention that Wolverine said Spiderman could easily beat him if he didn't hold back on him. Which I'm guessing is the case in the comic you read. That or bad writing.

LOL I love the ''bad writing'' excuse that comes out each and every time someone's favourite looses, without fail

Spiderman isn't a killer. Wolverine is. Thats why wolverine beat him. He was willing to kill, spiderman wasn't. You may say that if spiderman was, he would win, but if he were to kill, he would no longer be spiderman, or not the one you know and love.

Wolverine also used techniques that slowed spidey down a lot.

Before you call it bad writing, try finding it and actually rseading it first.

 

[GyLocke]

Out of curiousity has there been any explanation at all so far as to how Wolverine's healing factor has been boosted from being tough to kill to virtually impossible?

And I'm with GyLocke, I preferred the character as he was years ago to how he is presented now.

It explained pretty well actually.
When those weapon-X butcheres introduced adamantium to his system they've messed up his healing factor badly, since it had to keep him alive.

After Apocalypse put the adamantium in for the second time, he did a better job.

 

[wobbly]

Honestly not sure, I've read older Hulk comics, but can't remember many of them needing him to use a healing factor, his skin simply reflected most dmg. I think it was first in a Wolverine vs. Hulk fight, where Hulk was Grey Hulk, it was revealed Wolverine was hurting Hulk all along but Hulk was healing the dmg so fast it looked like no dmg was done. That might have been near the start of it. I know he's survived his skin being burnt off and healed it in 3 panels 10 or so years ago like it was nothing, and has been gutted a few years back and held his intestines in with his hand and his skin grew around his hand. That's some pretty impressive healing, but nothing that old, some Hulk buffs around here hopefully can answer that.

As for Doom and Thing, Things not always been as strong, his strength has crept up over the years. Not sure of the exact issue you mean as I haven't read it, but he did start out around 5 ton str. Then around when he fought Superskrull the first time I believe he was around 20 ton str, as Superskrull still had Things origional str later on and I think Thing was much stronger, but not entirely sure on that. Now Thing is class 85 or so ton str I believe, if not closer to class 100. At the time tho Thing prob was closer to Doom's strength, and Doom hasn't improved drasitically in str like Thing has.

The idea that the Hulk has a super boosted healing factor (and that Wolverine had been cutting him in their first fight too) was a Peter David ret-con, but prior to the Hulk suddenly being visibly cut-up every half dozen issues or so (after that Wolverine Fight), it was pretty clear that he was supposed to be damn near invulnerable, in that things like bullets, explosives, and metal claws (no matter how tough or sharp) simply could not penetrate his skin.
In fact prior to that fight with Wolverine the only other instances I can recall where his skin was shown or said to be cut was by magical demons or high intensity lasers.

With the Thing that ties in with the Hulks boosted strengh too: Originally Stan Lee wanted the strength levels to be a lot more grounded than the planet pushing antics of DC's Superman so both of them were at no more than a few tons to begin with, but these levels meant things like throwing tanks around wouldn't be possible either so the writers amped both Ben and the Hulk up over time. Afaik, Doom cannot hold his own in a fist fight for long with Ben these days.

 

[wobbly]

It explained pretty well actually.
When those weapon-X butcheres introduced adamantium to his system they've messed up his healing factor badly, since it had to keep him alive.

After Apocalypse put the adamantium in for the second time, he did a better job.

Ah. This was around the time I stopped reading the books for some time; I have seen the issues where Magneto tore the adamantium out (something I dont think he should have been able to do but nevermind...) but never caught up on the full details on how he got it back. All I remember in the aftermath of his losing the metal was the 'reveal' of the bone claws and his becoming more feral for a while. So his healing factor was up to his now immortal levels right after that then?

 

[Sloth7d]

LOL I love the ''bad writing'' excuse that comes out each and every time someone's favourite looses, without fail

I love how people say you're calling the bad writing exuse when it is bad writing with no exuse.

Spiderman isn't a killer. Wolverine is. Thats why wolverine beat him. He was willing to kill, spiderman wasn't. You may say that if spiderman was, he would win, but if he were to kill, he would no longer be spiderman, or not the one you know and love.

Thats a terrible exuse. Spiderman has defeated Venom Carnage, the scorpion and others who are killers and are ten times the threat Wolvy could ever pose head up. He doesn't need to kill him to stop holding back and knock him out. Eitherway he knows he can't die so why would he hold back? The answer. Some writers were dropped as babies.

Wolverine also used techniques that slowed spidey down a lot.

What techniques could possibly slow him down. Not even our ultimate battle startegist Captain America could slow him down. What could Wolverine do?

Before you call it bad writing, try finding it and actually rseading it first.

Dude, I just ate.

 

[Ben Urich]

I don't think Wolverine sucks but damn, saying Spider-Man sucks is unforgivable.

The only mainstream characters who suck harder than Spidey are Cyclops and Storm.

 

[ang_hulk]

you should show them that shot of ultimate hulk tearing wolverine in half.

 

[Anubis]

YEah she does, Buffy's a hoe.

Not that theres anything wrong with that. I wouldn't wanna live in a world without ****s, skanks or ****es.

By the way, it's "ho", not "hoe". Hoes are gardening tool.

 

[Horrorfan]

I love how people say you're calling the bad writing exuse when it is bad writing with no exuse.

98% of the time, it is an excuse. It really is one of the fanboy cliches.

And seeing as you haven't even read the book, your obviously throwing it out as a last resort excuse as you cant possibly accept wolverine winning.

It matters not to me. You can go on saying how spiderman would destroy him or whatever in your fantasy land , or you can read their one actual knock down drag out fight. I choose to read the fight how it went, not day dream about how it could have gone

 

[Sloth7d]

So I guess you take fights like Wolverine vs Lobo as good writing.
I guess I should just take fights ike that and Namor at face value and ignore the facts that my..."fantasy land" presents.

 

[Artistsean]

I at first didn't like Wolverine. I almost hated him. Him and Punisher.
The way I saw them being advertised when I was just starting getting into comics turned me off of them for a while.
Made Wolverine and Punisher seem like shallow characters, big guns, big claws, big hair, big muscles, and all they do is kill and smoke while looking dangerous.
Thats what it seemed like to me from afar, not until much later did I start liking them and liking their characters.

They are both well rounded and intersting characters.

 

[Sloth7d]

Well, maybe I should refrase.
I don't hate wolverine, really. I hate how exaggerated he gets at times.
His hype is annoying and turns me(a long time fan of Wolvy) off.

 

[Horrorfan]

So I guess you take fights like Wolverine vs Lobo as good writing.
I guess I should just take fights ike that and Namor at face value and ignore the facts that my..."fantasy land" presents.

I didn't say it was good writing...am I glad Wolverine won? Hell yes. Lobo is lame. I don't care what he can do, and honestly, he probably could beat wolverine, but hes a lame character, so I am glad wolverine won. The fight itself was rushed and poorly written, but I am pleased with the outcome.


The fact is, you talk to your firiends and say spidey can beat wolvie, and back it up with nothing but your opinions and meaningless stats. Your friends, however, could own you decisevly if they decided to get off their ass, research and buy said comics. I doubt they would listen to you whining about bad witing when they had real evidence in their hands

 

[Artistsean]

Well, maybe I should refrase.
I don't hate wolverine, really. I hate how exaggerated he gets at times.
His hype is annoying and turns me(a long time fan of Wolvy) off.

I agree with this, about many characters, at times their powers get over blown and overshadow their personalities and stories. The character needs weaknesses as well as strengths, and their character needs to be well rounded too, not just one demensional.

Then there is also the fact that sometimes a character is over used and over exposed, or a part of the character is over exposed. Or a character is spread too thin.