Wolverine sucks

[unstoppable]

Edit:double post

 

[Zeu]

his healin' factor allows him to cyrculate blood through his body that's why without it he'll die

Blood has to be replaced at a constant rate.

Not only due to the massive injuries he sustains but also the fact that blood ages and dies and has to be replaced by the new blood cells being born in the marrow.
Blood cells which won´t be able to get out from nside the bones if they´re conpletelly covered in adamantium.

 

[Fading]

Imo, the writers should never have ret-conned matters to enable him to hold his own in a fight against heavyweights like the Hulk, much less be portrayed as being able to even kill them.

One of the only real gripes I have with Wolverine is the way he goes back and forth. Mainly with his healing factor as it shouldn't be his strength, but just a back up. He's went up against plenty of foes and not needed it, heck he sliced of Blackheart's arm without getting scratched in a Punisher, Wolverine, Ghost Rider Hearts of Darkness story, now days he'd prob get burned first then heal and cut it off for no reason but the artists to show him healing.

Only thing I will say is that it's not a retcon for him to hold his own against heavyweights. It's one of the things I'll never understand, that ppl act like it's a retcon, or bad writing that he can fight super strength ppl when it's part of his character.

First off Wolverine was made to be a Hulk rogue, no retcon. He was created soley (at first that is) to fight Hulk and Wendigo at the same time. When he was brought into the X-Men he was fighting foes like Juggernaut, GLadiator, Magneto, and many many other powerful foes. He's fought the THing for years and did some major damage to him. His first foe, and enemy he fights the most is none other than the Hulk himself. He's fought plenty of foes and some ppl call him a brick slayer when it comes to guys with only super strength and no other powers.

That in no way is a retcon, it's part of his character, and nor is it out of character or you'd have to say his first appearance in Hulk was out of character off the bat. At first his claws weren't even supposed to be attached to him, he may or may not have had a healing factor and so on, he's been fleshed out since.

I'm not going to say he beats the Hulk when it counts or anything, but it's not ooc for him to fight the Hulk as it's what he was made for. Only thing I wish is that they'd pick a power level and stay there. Keep his healing factor consistent, and if their currently doing the whole secondary mutation thing or something, then state it and make it canon rather than constantly fluxing healing rates. He's went up against some of the toughest in Marvel and walked away, he's teamed with tons of Marvel's best, it's cannon and been written into him over the years, it's nothing that's happened in the past 5 years or so like everyone seems to think lol.

Don't get me wrong tho, I hate it when they make him overpowered as it hurts his character rather than help him.

 

[Fading]

Well, whatever. HULK tears Wolverine in half. To me that's 'nuff said' no matter what universe it is...

Actually it does matter what universe a story takes place in when your talking about 616 continuity. If you say that Ultimate stuff counts as canon in a 616 argument, you might as well say What If's count too, because their dealing with different characters with possibly different lvl's of power. Wolverine in the Ultimates seems to have some small amount of superstrength, while the Hulk is a cannibal. Hulk in the normal continuity is not a cannibal tho, and Wolverine is only meta human in strength. I do think Hulk could rip Wolverine in half, but the Hulk in the normal universe is a hero not a villain and he doesn't do that.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Actually it does matter what universe a story takes place in when your talking about 616 continuity. If you say that Ultimate stuff counts as canon in a 616 argument, you might as well say What If's count too, because their dealing with different characters with possibly different lvl's of power. Wolverine in the Ultimates seems to have some small amount of superstrength, while the Hulk is a cannibal. Hulk in the normal continuity is not a cannibal tho, and Wolverine is only meta human in strength. I do think Hulk could rip Wolverine in half, but the Hulk in the normal universe is a hero not a villain and he doesn't do that.

Hulk can rip Wolverine in half. He can stop a plane in mid flight, he can do this. Wolverine may have metal bones, but not metal ligaments and tendons.

 

[Mr. Green]

Actually it does matter what universe a story takes place in when your talking about 616 continuity. If you say that Ultimate stuff counts as canon in a 616 argument, you might as well say What If's count too, because their dealing with different characters with possibly different lvl's of power. Wolverine in the Ultimates seems to have some small amount of superstrength, while the Hulk is a cannibal. Hulk in the normal continuity is not a cannibal tho, and Wolverine is only meta human in strength. I do think Hulk could rip Wolverine in half, but the Hulk in the normal universe is a hero not a villain and he doesn't do that.

I agree with that completely.

As far as relating that particular Ultimate match-up to the 616 Universe I look at it like this:

616 Hulk > Ultimate Hulk.
Ultimate Wolverine > 616 Wolverine
Ultimate Hulk > Ultimate Wolverine

Therefore 616 Hulk > 616 Wolverine.

It's not concrete or anything but it can give someone an idea of how 616 Hulk and Wolvie might match up in a fight compared to their Ultimate counterparts .

 

[Mr. Smash'n Bash]

his healin' factor allows him to cyrculate blood through his body that's why without it he'll die

He has to have blood in the first place for it to circulate.

 

[Kool-Aid]

So, I played MUA on PS2 and Wolverine is really good in it. I beat Loki and Super Skrull with him.

 

[Horrorfan]

Oh dear...Sounds like the writer didn't realise just how stupid that first 'What if' story was and took it to heart (seriously, this means that in theory any guy with an adamantium blade can kill the Hulk?...please...).
Also, was this the 'Professor' version of the Hulk or the savage 'Hulk smash' type? (I can believe the former might panic but the latter would just get angrier).

LOL Yeah the whole bad writing thing....dontcha just love it?


Most people with an adamantium blade couldn't kill the hulk, as they don't have the training, speed, ferocity and stamina as wolverine, not to mention a healing factor and incredible durability. So no, it doesn't mean ''anyone with an adamantium blade'' could kill hulk.

And savage hulk....but no one ever seems to mention how insanely stupid and lame it is for him to just get madder and madder and madder. It sure didn't help him when Void was pwning him.

Oh and for wolvie vs spidey fans, this just just for you from the latest what if....(wolvie kills spidey...again)

http://media.comics.ign.com/media/864/864900/img_4047989.html

 

[roach]

LOL Yeah the whole bad writing thing....dontcha just love it?


Most people with an adamantium blade couldn't kill the hulk, as they don't have the training, speed, ferocity and stamina as wolverine, not to mention a healing factor and incredible durability.

what does that have to do with trying to cut the Hulk?????
Can you be trained to pierce unbreakable skin???
Do the speed of the thrusts and cuts somehow negates the Hulks hide???
Does Wolverine become more powerful the more ferocous he is?????

 

[Horrorfan]

what does that have to do with trying to cut the Hulk?????
Can you be trained to pierce unbreakable skin???
Do the speed of the thrusts and cuts somehow negates the Hulks hide???
Does Wolverine become more powerful the more ferocous he is?????

Well if hulk gets more powerful the more ferocious he becomes, why not?


Adamantium has and does cut hulks skin. It's been shown in many comics, and as previously mentioned, is cannon. But he heals super fast. But the way wolvie almost killed him is by hammering at his neck wounds, not letting up and pounding away. Not many people could get close enough to hulk to do that.

 

[roach]

Well if hulk gets more powerful the more ferocious he becomes, why not?


Adamantium has and does cut hulks skin. It's been shown in many comics, and as previously mentioned, is cannon. But he heals super fast. But the way wolvie almost killed him is by hammering at his neck wounds, not letting up and pounding away. Not many people could get close enough to hulk to do that.

and the Hulk just stands there and lets hims stab him????

 

[wobbly]

One of the only real gripes I have with Wolverine is the way he goes back and forth. Mainly with his healing factor as it shouldn't be his strength, but just a back up. He's went up against plenty of foes and not needed it, heck he sliced of Blackheart's arm without getting scratched in a Punisher, Wolverine, Ghost Rider Hearts of Darkness story, now days he'd prob get burned first then heal and cut it off for no reason but the artists to show him healing.

Only thing I will say is that it's not a retcon for him to hold his own against heavyweights. It's one of the things I'll never understand, that ppl act like it's a retcon, or bad writing that he can fight super strength ppl when it's part of his character.

First off Wolverine was made to be a Hulk rogue, no retcon. He was created soley (at first that is) to fight Hulk and Wendigo at the same time. When he was brought into the X-Men he was fighting foes like Juggernaut, GLadiator, Magneto, and many many other powerful foes. He's fought the THing for years and did some major damage to him. His first foe, and enemy he fights the most is none other than the Hulk himself. He's fought plenty of foes and some ppl call him a brick slayer when it comes to guys with only super strength and no other powers.

That in no way is a retcon, it's part of his character, and nor is it out of character or you'd have to say his first appearance in Hulk was out of character off the bat. At first his claws weren't even supposed to be attached to him, he may or may not have had a healing factor and so on, he's been fleshed out since.

I'm not going to say he beats the Hulk when it counts or anything, but it's not ooc for him to fight the Hulk as it's what he was made for. Only thing I wish is that they'd pick a power level and stay there. Keep his healing factor consistent, and if their currently doing the whole secondary mutation thing or something, then state it and make it canon rather than constantly fluxing healing rates. He's went up against some of the toughest in Marvel and walked away, he's teamed with tons of Marvel's best, it's cannon and been written into him over the years, it's nothing that's happened in the past 5 years or so like everyone seems to think lol.

Don't get me wrong tho, I hate it when they make him overpowered as it hurts his character rather than help him.

Ok in fairness, having him hold his own against the hulk to the point he can even kill him is as much a ret-con to the Hulk as it is to Wolverine (making the Hulk cutable after so many years when it was clear he wasn't), however in that first fight Wolverine did no more than annoy the Hulk (he even admitted this himself in a later issue of X-Men: try as he might he knew he couldn't hurt him) so suggesting he was intended to be a regular in the Hulks rogues' gallery is overstating the case: He was there only because the hulk was in Canada at the time, he was a Canadian superhero/agent, that was it.

 

[wobbly]

LOL Yeah the whole bad writing thing....dontcha just love it?


Most people with an adamantium blade couldn't kill the hulk, as they don't have the training, speed, ferocity and stamina as wolverine, not to mention a healing factor and incredible durability. So no, it doesn't mean ''anyone with an adamantium blade'' could kill hulk.

And savage hulk....but no one ever seems to mention how insanely stupid and lame it is for him to just get madder and madder and madder. It sure didn't help him when Void was pwning him.

Oh and for wolvie vs spidey fans, this just just for you from the latest what if....(wolvie kills spidey...again)

http://media.comics.ign.com/media/864/864900/img_4047989.html

As I said before, this does mean in theory anyone with an adamantium blade can now kill the Hulk (wolverine doesnt possess super strength after all), and as Roach indicated in his response, it doesnt really take much training or skill to continously hack at someone's throat, especially when that someone does nothing to stop you hacking away at them for some unknown reason.

And why is it 'insanely stupid' for the Hulk to keep getting madder? That is the way he was written for decades, a damn near indestructible creature of rage.

Ironically, Hulk & Wolverine's roles have been reversed somewhat there. Now the Hulk can be killed by any nutcase with a good enough knife, but Wolverine can survive having all his flesh fried from his bones...


Lastly on the matter of 'bad writing' (your term, not mine), well here you have to choose don't you?
Because there is a clear inconsistency in how Wolverine fared against the Hulk in the first fight (just ticked him off) and all subsequent ones, either that first fight (and his very first appearance) was bad writing or all the latter ones are.

 

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

I have no problem with Wolvie cutting Hulk, even under his own power, I mean it should be possible with such sharp claws made out of the most indestructible material ever.

However, I think his healing factor should be reduced a lot, in order to make him more thoughtful and skillful, which is how he should be.

The only explanation for any increase (which should be temporary to handle certain opponents) should retconned into a Hulk style method, wheras the more angry and feral he becomes, the more efficient his healing factor.

 

[roach]

I like Wolverine...however Marvel is turning him into their version of Batman. Batman was very cool character until he became DC's god of beating everyone with Prep time...years down the line some writer is gonna make it so the more crazy he gets the more powerful people Wolverine can pawn

 

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

I like Wolverine...however Marvel is turning him into their version of Batman. Batman was very cool character until he became DC's god of beating everyone with Prep time...years down the line some writer is gonna make it so the more crazy he gets the more powerful people Wolverine can pawn

I did'nt mean it quite that literally, with a massive increase being stupid. He would still suffer and could always be killed.

 

[Horrorfan]

As I said before, this does mean in theory anyone with an adamantium blade can now kill the Hulk (wolverine doesnt possess super strength after all), and as Roach indicated in his response, it doesnt really take much training or skill to continously hack at someone's throat, especially when that someone does nothing to stop you hacking away at them for some unknown reason.

And why is it 'insanely stupid' for the Hulk to keep getting madder? That is the way he was written for decades, a damn near indestructible creature of rage.


Because there is a clear inconsistency in how Wolverine fared against the Hulk in the first fight (just ticked him off) and all subsequent ones, either that first fight (and his very first appearance) was bad writing or all the latter ones are.

The problem is, you have this huge problem with Wolverine being upgraded with an uber healing factor, and taking on bigger and badder guys and holding his own, but with hulk, it's ok? If you find it lame with wolverine, why isn't it equally lame that hulk can get really pissed and beat people he should struggle with with ease? And hulk has been shown to recover from insane injuries too (neck snapped, evaporated and even torn to shredds and being just bone and guts), so I don't see why wolverine's accelerated healing factor bothers you.

I have heard people say it makes wolverine lame and unrelatable when he can beat a lot of people with his new uber healing factor in addition to other powers, but people still love hulk even though he is uber powerful and has an uber healing factor of his own. I think people have a problem with the character as it's recently become cool to ***** about him, as it always does when something becomes uber popular.

Just seems like hypocrisy to me though, being ok with Hulk's super duper healing and being able to smack down most beings but saying how the same things make wolverine lame.

 

[Varient]

Actually, I referrenced the wolverine and Hulk fight and lets just say.....
Denial is their best friend.

Have they explained ANYWHERE how wolverine can now completly regenerate from ground zero of an explosion?

 

[Horrorfan]

Have they explained ANYWHERE how wolverine can now completly regenerate from ground zero of an explosion?

How did Hulk when the same thing happened? Dude was dust

 

[roach]

The problem is, you have this huge problem with Wolverine being upgraded with an uber healing factor, and taking on bigger and badder guys and holding his own, but with hulk, it's ok? If you find it lame with wolverine, why isn't it equally lame that hulk can get really pissed and beat people he should struggle with with ease? And hulk has been shown to recover from insane injuries too (neck snapped, evaporated and even torn to shredds and being just bone and guts), so I don't see why wolverine's accelerated healing factor bothers you.

because these were his power sets from the get go..The madder the Hulk gets the stronger he gets was from his first appearance.

when Wolverine came onto the scene a gunshot to the gut had him in bed for a bout a week...now he shrugs off having the flesh burned off his skeleton in a mere minutes.

 

[roach]

How did Hulk when the same thing happened? Dude was dust

when???
considering since that was how they killed the Maestro...a much more powerful Hulk

 

[Horrorfan]

because these were his power sets from the get go..The madder the Hulk gets the stronger he gets was from his first appearance.

when Wolverine came onto the scene a gunshot to the gut had him in bed for a bout a week...now he shrugs off having the flesh burned off his skeleton in a mere minutes.

So??? It was still just as rediculous. I'm not a fan of the uber healing factor for wolverine, because it is lame, but its just as lame for the HUlk too. And I'm pretty sure Hulk was more vunerable when he first came onto the scene than he is now, and much much less durable. A lame power is a lame power.

And Hulk regenrated from just a skeleton and pile of guts in Hulk the End....thats what happeend to wolverine, but it's somehow OK with hulk.

 

[roach]

Oh so because Wolverine cant do it no one else can????

 

[wobbly]

The problem is, you have this huge problem with Wolverine being upgraded with an uber healing factor, and taking on bigger and badder guys and holding his own, but with hulk, it's ok? If you find it lame with wolverine, why isn't it equally lame that hulk can get really pissed and beat people he should struggle with with ease? And hulk has been shown to recover from insane injuries too (neck snapped, evaporated and even torn to shredds and being just bone and guts), so I don't see why wolverine's accelerated healing factor bothers you.

Actually, I have more of a problem with the Hulks healing factor than I do with Wolverine's and you have illustrated why: All those 'insane injuries' you speak of came after the ret-con that stated Wolverine was always able to cut the Hulk (but is too stupid to realise when his claws are actually cutting something apparently).
Prior to that ret-con the Hulk was never thought of as having an 'uber' healing factor as no-one could ever hurt him bad enough to need one, and remember he had always been the 'strongest one there is' among Marvels heroes (until the mother of all ret-cons that is the Sentry of course), he wasn't given a later assist by the writers to make him that way.

And who are these people the Hulk 'should struggle with' that he beats with ease?

I have heard people say it makes wolverine lame and unrelatable when he can beat a lot of people with his new uber healing factor in addition to other powers, but people still love hulk even though he is uber powerful and has an uber healing factor of his own. I think people have a problem with the character as it's recently become cool to ***** about him, as it always does when something becomes uber popular.

Just seems like hypocrisy to me though, being ok with Hulk's super duper healing and being able to smack down most beings but saying how the same things make wolverine lame.

A Wolverine going into a tough fight knowing he could be killed is more interesting to me that one that doesn't need to give a sh#t. If you prefer the latter that's up to you and congratulations on getting your wish.

And you keep talking about them as if they have both been given similar power-ups down the years but that simply isnt the case: Once again with regards to the Hulk: he was always 'uber-powerful' from the beginning. The healing factor is a ret-con that is effectively a downgrade for someone who had previously been seen as damn near invulnerable (certainly a lot harder to injure than before that ret-con at any rate).

It's like I said before (which you chose to edit out of the quote for some reason), Wolverine is now effectively immortal, but any nut with a good knife can kill the hulk.

It isn't hypocricy at all to think that is wrong.