Wolverine's so called "love"for Jean...

[DMRadz]

I brought this up in a XM1 thread.

The thing that has always bothered me through the X-Men's was Logan's "love" for Jean.

At the beginning of X-men, the X-Men rescue Wolverine and Rogue. Wolverine wakes up to Jean and almost kills her. After he meets up with Xavier, they agree that Charles has 2 days to find out what Mags wants with him. After the 2-3 days, Magneto is defeated and lock up in prison. Logan leaves the mansion.

He comes back during X2 to be welcomed back by Jean and Storm as they are on their way to Boston. Wolverine stays back and watch the students. After the mansion is attacked, Wolverine and the other students flee and head to Iceman's house. After the cops are called they are picked up by Jean and Storm. While flying, they are attacked and about to crash wil Mags saves them. The spend 1 night in the woods before heading to the Weapon X facility. After everything happens the dam collapses and Jean sacfrices her self to help the X-Men escape.

In X-Men 3, months after her "death", she is "resurrected". Jean is at the mansion for a day, when she wakes up, tries to seduce Wolverine, and walks out. She goes back to her home. After Charles dies, Magneto takes her with him. Wolverine sees Jean in the woods for only a moment before Mags taes care of him. The Brotherhood goes to SF. Jean does her thing and Wolverine kills her. The woman he loves. Who he has only seen like a total of 7 days.

Anyone else see a problem with this? How could he show such emotion... for someone he hardly knows?

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

This was a problem I had as well. I think that, isolated in TLS, it works. Famke and Hugh sell the relationship. But the second you try to link the movie to the first two it falls apart, for the reasons you stated. A story like that works in the comics because there is a history to the characters...there was no such build up in the movies, and for that reason it falls slightly flat, though in the hands of less capable actors it could have been much worse.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

that bothers me as well. i know the trilogy is like done and over with and has been for some time, but i just cant help to think about this stuff and nit pick. ive done it for three years.

pretty much every detail/scene in TLS bothers the crap out of me!


oh and what's worse is the fact that those seven days are rounded up! and the fact that she was with someone else doesnt alter that at all!

AND back when he only knew her for five/six days she "died" and he was balling over it, something completely out of character!

ok i have to go. im so tired of getting angry over a movie three years old!

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, Wolverine clearly had a thing for Jean from the beginning, and she clearly felt some attraction. There's definite chemistry in X1 when Jean reads his mind and giggles when he says 'You might like it' and then tension from Scott ('Stay away from my girl'), there was an attraction revealed at the end of X1 as Wolverine is lying on the infirmary table, there's a definite chemistry when Logan returns to the mansion at the start of X2. It didn't just happen from nowhere in X3, the seeds were sown much earlier. Jean herself says in X2 that women flirt with the dangerous guy, meaning herself.

 

[Mike059jig]

Yeah since cyclops got killed off...they carried jean and wolverine love into the dark phoenix saga

 

[DMRadz]

Well, Wolverine clearly had a thing for Jean from the beginning, and she clearly felt some attraction. There's definite chemistry in X1 when Jean reads his mind and giggles when he says 'You might like it' and then tension from Scott ('Stay away from my girl'), there was an attraction revealed at the end of X1 as Wolverine is lying on the infirmary table, there's a definite chemistry when Logan returns to the mansion at the start of X2. It didn't just happen from nowhere in X3, the seeds were sown much earlier. Jean herself says in X2 that women flirt with the dangerous guy, meaning herself.

Which is all true, but he was crying so hard and cared for her so much, yet they barely knew each other. No one shows that kind of emotion for someone they've never really sat down with and gotten to know. Wolvie thought she was hot, he had nothing else to go by. I probably know more about Jessica Alba than Wolverine ever did about Jean.

 

[DMRadz]

I just realized I misspelled Wolverine in the title of this topic. Boy do I feel silly.

 

[[A]]

"Wolvine"..

 

[Cyma]

Love is blind and irrational so Logan’s love for Jean is very much possible. And X-men face life threatening situations every day. Another reason to grow more attached.

 

[Rich Santoro]

Or it was just a childish plot device, adding the tension of a forbidden love, as to add some extra mojo for the main character.

 

[DMRadz]

I'm going with Rich. No way WOLVERINE was that emotionally attached to her.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I just realized I misspelled Wolverine in the title of this topic. Boy do I feel silly.

It happens, but I fixed 'er up for you.

This "love" really annoyed me. It's one thing to have a love triangle, but that didn't really existed due to Cyclops' lack of character and screen time. I feel as though they only enhanced Logan's attraction to her in the films to make his massive role more relevant.

 

[Rich Santoro]

^ agreed... and then some.

 

[psyonic]

For me, the whole thing was already settled in X2 when Jean told Logan that she loves Scott (repairing the X-jet scene). Logan even tells Scott this at the end of X2. It was just another way to have Logan in the spotlight and X3 just simply disappointed me. Logan's "love" feels extremely tacked on and forced. I'm glad Jean still didn't feel the same way in X3. The whole phoenix saga was ignored. It would have been epic if Singer had stayed on to direct X3 AND X4 back to back. Two years and some months later I'm still raw about it. Hmmpfff!

 

[X-Maniac]

For me, the whole thing was already settled in X2 when Jean told Logan that she loves Scott (repairing the X-jet scene). Logan even tells Scott this at the end of X2. It was just another way to have Logan in the spotlight and X3 just simply disappointed me. Logan's "love" feels extremely tacked on and forced. I'm glad Jean still didn't feel the same way in X3. The whole phoenix saga was ignored. It would have been epic if Singer had stayed on to direct X3 AND X4 back to back. Two years and some months later I'm still raw about it. Hmmpfff!

Well, Singer did choose to leave. Firstly, he became distracted by (and attached to) the proposed Logan's Run remake and then he moved on to Superman Returns. I don't think Fox wanted him to leave, or they wouldn't have angrily ordered him off the lot when he signed to SR (then had to readmit him to continue House).


A Singer X3/X4 would have been great to see, I can't predict it would have been epic but it would have been more consistent with the previous movies.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Doesn't bother me one bit.

1. The love triangle is consistent with the source material.
2. It's a trilogy of movies, hence drama. Events are exaggerated to make them more dramatic.

The "love" aspect of the story didn't feel forced or out of place in the least bit to me. I understand it is only a couple of days, but Logan became attached to Rogue over the course of maybe an hour or so.

It's exaggerated, but it's also drama, and that's really the whole point.

 

[Theweepeople]

Well, Singer did choose to leave. Firstly, he became distracted by (and attached to) the proposed Logan's Run remake and then he moved on to Superman Returns. I don't think Fox wanted him to leave, or they wouldn't have angrily ordered him off the lot when he signed to SR (then had to readmit him to continue House).

First of all Singer didn't just choose to leave. He and Fox were in negotiations for over a year before he started losing interest in X-Men. If Fox had such a problem with him initially trying to leave then why weren't they initally angry at his decision to work on Logan's Run for the WB?


As for the whole love for Jean theory I didn't buy it 2 years ago and certaintly don't accept it now. It's too far-fetched for me to believe that a man at that age would fall in love with anyone after being in contact with a person for at most a few days. That being said I have no problem with Wolverine's encounters with Jean in X1 and X2 because I still believe that Wolverine did not love Jean. What he felt towards her was lust and that feeling sure as hell doesn't make anyone act like the way Logan acted towards Jean for the majority of X3.

Furthermore, if Logan did love Jean he would have wanted what was best for her by respecting her rejection of his feelings towards her. That didn't happen in any of the scenes in X1 and X2 and rightfully so because it doesn't make sense. Logan's actions during the infirmary scene in X3 also convinces me there was no love. A sincerly loving Logan who suspected Jean might have killed her true love wouldn't have acted so recklessly with an obviously confused and dangerous mutant who supposedly had died a few years ago.

 

[X-Maniac]

First of all Singer didn't just choose to leave. He and Fox were in negotiations for over a year before he started losing interest in X-Men. If Fox had such a problem with him initially trying to leave then why weren't they initally angry at his decision to work on Logan's Run for the WB?

Of course Singer chose to leave. It was entirely his decision to go and make his dream project.

It was reported in the trades in December 2003 that Singer had struck a deal with Fox to develop new film projects for the studio. This deal included him directing X3. That deal didn't come that long after X2.

In May 2004, Shuler Donner told Sci Fi Wire they were aiming to start filming more than a year later (in June 2005) and release in May 2006.
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-05/07/13.00.film

So the May 2006 release date was fixed early on. They didn't seem in any particular rush and it looked like there was a fair amount of time to get things organised. The only 'issue' I can think of was that, as Variety reported, the contracts were only for two films so renegotiations were needed for a third movie.

Singer attached to Logan's Run in March 2004. I don't know if that was an issue for Fox, I don't recall reading about it being a problem but he wasn't rushing off to make it so I guess it wouldn't seem to be a problem. Singer signed to SR in July 2004 and that did become an issue because it was fast-tracked and he immediately went to start work on it. In fact, he had expressed interest in Superman a long time before, he said in May 2005 he mentioned it to the Donners about 2 and a half years previously, according to this SHH interview: http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=4196 At that time, another version of Superman was in development. That interview makes it seem like he had Superman on his mind for some time and then finally got the chance to make it. Directors do make dramatic personal decisions - Matthew Vaughn did the same thing! The development of many films is full of similar stories - the Superman franchise has a lot of this going on.

We have to face the fact that he really didn't want to stay on and do X3 - because his dream project (Superman) landed in his lap. Trying to make this sound like evil, nasty Fox forced him out is a silly distortion by people who want to blame someone other than Singer for the fact that Singer didn't make X3. He didn't want to make X3, he wanted to do Superman, and that's what he ended up doing.

 

[Theweepeople]

Of course Singer chose to leave. It was entirely his decision to go and make his dream project.

You missinterpreted what I wrote. I was responding to your assertion that Singer left without experiencing any negative influence by Fox. Fox was in negotations with Singer for over a year to start filming 2 back to back X-Men films. When the the negotiations fell through what did Fox expect Singer to do? Work on nothing for a few years? The WB saw an opportunity to lure Bryan away and Fox lost out fair and square.

It was reported in the trades in December 2003 that Singer had struck a deal with Fox to develop new film projects for the studio. This deal included him directing X3. That deal didn't come that long after X2.

Well, there's a big difference between making a verbal agreement and a contractual one that has your signature. If Singer was contractually obligated to make two X-Men films for Fox then Tom Rothman is the most incompetent business man in the world to not hold Singer to his contract or at the very least sue him for leaving. It's obvious that no deal was set in stone.

In May 2004, Shuler Donner told Sci Fi Wire they were aiming to start filming more than a year later (in June 2005) and release in May 2006.
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-05/07/13.00.film.[/quote]

So what. As I said before Fox had plently of time to sign Singer to a contract and failed. It's not Singer's fault this film was rushed. If Fox really cared about the third X-Men film they wouldn't have hired script writers 5 months before filming began.

Singer attached to Logan's Run in March 2004. I don't know if that was an issue for Fox, I don't recall reading about it being a problem but he wasn't rushing off to make it so I guess it wouldn't seem to be a problem. Singer signed to SR in July 2004 and that did become an issue because it was fast-tracked and he immediately went to start work on it.

Here's what bothers me about the above information. Singer's name being attached to Logan's Run and SR had a time difference of a few months. Regardless of which film Singer worked on his schedule to work on another X-Men film in 2005 with Fox would probably be compromised. Did Fox really think they would have time to start the X-Men 3 negotiations with Singer after he worked on another project that could take a year and a half to complete?

In fact, he had expressed interest in Superman a long time before, he said in May 2005 he mentioned it to the Donners about 2 and a half years previously, according to this SHH interview: http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=4196 At that time, another version of Superman was in development. That interview makes it seem like he had Superman on his mind for some time and then finally got the chance to make it. Directors do make dramatic personal decisions - Matthew Vaughn did the same thing! The development of many films is full of similar stories - the Superman franchise has a lot of this going on.

Getting involved with Superman might have been on Singer's mind but, the opportunity to direct it wasn't there in 2003. Ratner was involved with the horrid project for part of 2003 and 2004.

We have to face the fact that he really didn't want to stay on and do X3 - because his dream project (Superman) landed in his lap. Trying to make this sound like evil, nasty Fox forced him out is a silly distortion by people who want to blame someone other than Singer for the fact that Singer didn't make X3. He didn't want to make X3, he wanted to do Superman, and that's what he ended up doing.

Well, this is all relative. Below is a rumor I remember seeing right before Singer considered directing Logan's Run in 2004.


http://www.moviesonline.ca/movienews_547.html


Also, Singer said in an interview 2 years ago that he had a copy of an X-Men 3 script stored in one of his computer's hard drives. Please explain to me why he would work on the script of a film he had no interest doing.


I think Singer initially wanted to do another X-Men film until Rothman starting acting like the micromanaging anal retentive jerk that he is. Of course I don't think Singer wanted to do another X-Men film after Fox started making things difficult for him. The WB recognized what was happening, canceled their Superman Lives project, and gave Singer an opportunity he couldn't pass on.

Finally, I have never said Fox was evil and forced Singer to leave. I have said time and time again that they dictated a very unhealthy working environment upon Singer and the likes of many other directors.



Directors, producers, and writer's who've publicly criticized Fox for their working environment:



Alex Proyas
Stephen Norrington
Tim Burton
David Fincher
Don Murphy
Art Linson
Micheal Dougherty
Mathieu Kassovitz

 

[X-Maniac]

I just lost a really long reply; just going to say now that we don't know exactly went on behind closed doors, so it's no use doing too much guessing.

 

[Rich Santoro]

^ but therein, lies the greatest fun... meaningless conjecture is all the rage.

 

[FrostBite]

"You'd die for them? "No... -sobs- I'd die for you!! -stabs-"

It was a lame plot device to give Wolverine some humanity in all three films. Personally it would have sufficed to just have him flirt with her and leave his "humanity" and "feelings" for Rogue as a father figure / best bud.

 

[Rich Santoro]

^ I would have been content with him being a little closer to the brink... and done away with his playful Cyclops taunts, like "You're a dick" and the "middle-claw" gesture.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I suppose that if you think about it "logically" then it doesn't make much sense for Wolvie to be that in love with Jean. But look at Superman The Movie. How long had Supey known Lois for? A couple of days, at best. And then he cries like a b*** when she dies.

Granted, they did have the Can You Read My Mind thing in STM, but still. One would imagine that Jean's sacrifice at the end of X2 affected the way Logan reacts to Jean in X3.

BTW, I f***ing hate X3.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I suppose that if you think about it "logically" then it doesn't make much sense for Wolvie to be that in love with Jean. But look at Superman The Movie. How long had Supey known Lois for? A couple of days, at best. And then he cries like a b*** when she dies.

Granted, they did have the Can You Read My Mind thing in STM, but still. One would imagine that Jean's sacrifice at the end of X2 affected the way Logan reacts to Jean in X3.

BTW, I f***ing hate X3.

like i said in my previous post, it's done for dramatic purposes. i think you're kind of agreeing with me?

except for the hating x3 part - it's well known i do enjoy the movie greatly.

but yea, it's just done for dramatic purpose. logically, it may not make sense because it's only a matter of a couple weeks tops (and that is generous), but in my opinion, the angle is developed well enough that it doesn't feel out of place or unnatural.