Wonder Woman Thread Reborn!

[Timstuff]

I'm also an art student, and my focus of study is animation, although I consider my field of interest to be fairly broad. I'm still learning Maya (and really, the program is so freaking complicated and being constantly updated that you never stop learning it), but my passion has always been 2D, hand-drawn animation, and I also like making concept art and comics. However, in this day and age 3D is what will get the bills paid, so I'm trying to get well practiced with it. I think what I will try to specialize in is modeling, since the creation of characters interests me a bit more than the process of making them move in Maya (although I do know how to do that, as well).

BTW, I'm working on a new Wonder Woman concept image. I recently "rebooted" my deviant art page, and this might end up being the first entry on it depending on how it turns out. Keep an on this thread for it in the coming days!

 

[jmc]

Even though 3D is great and I did course on it I just found it to be so artificial, there's something organic about hand drawn animation and illustration in general. I agree with Maya, very complicated piece of software.

 

[jaymes_e06]

^ I know Beauty and the Beast is considered the crown jewel from that period but I believe The Lion King is the better film and was more deserving of Oscar recognition than Beauty. I maintain the first 5 mins of The Lion King is the most epic opening to a film ever.

there is something truely haunting about some scenes of beauty and the beast while lion king was good it seemed bit formulaic in its emotional moments. Both are exceptional movies I can just see why the academy foun it more endearing.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Yay artist! Maybe it's the fact our generation were on the tail end of the 2D movies as major summer releases that we still appreciate it. I don't enjoy 3D as much. Good but different.

Thanks for that magazine reference, JMC.

I was drawing a sketch of my WW variation and one of my co-workers aske if it was her. I was very happy, especially since it was mostly a head shot without her tiara, a different emblem, and only the color red.

I'd argue though that people really haven't been exposed to a 'true' Wonder Woman. I look at it this way, for years you mention Batman to any average Joe and they'd immediately think of the 60's TV series, then comes along Burton to show us a 'proper' version of the character as it were. I think WW is more or less in the same boat that Batman was up until '89, people think they know what the character is about but they don't really coz most only have one point of reference, if/when a film gets made that's what I believe the marketing needs to do is revolve around that GA cognition, asking people do they really know the character.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "true." To me, Batman wholesale created its own version by camping it up while WW by the 70s standard was lighthearted, but played fairly straight.

Burton's Batman, Charlie's Angels or even Trek all did what I said about nostalgia material. Burton's stuff was simply the 60s version with the camp removed or toned down. But it's not like Gordon was more than he was in the tv show. Alfred was there and all the various Bat vehicles. Contrast that with Ang Lee's Hulk which wouldn't in anyway remind someone of the Bixby version and there's the problem(Beyond casting).

 

[jmc]

Thanks for that magazine reference, JMC.

It's a great read.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by ''true'' To me, Batman wholesale created its own version by camping it up while WW by the 70s standard was lighthearted, but played fairly straight.

Burton's Batman, Charlie's Angels or even Trek all did what I said about nostalgia material. Burton's stuff was simply the 60s version with the camp removed or toned down. But it's not like Gordon was more than he was in the tv show. Alfred was there and all the various Bat vehicles. Contrast that with Ang Lee's Hulk which wouldn't in anyway remind someone of the Bixby version and there's the problem(Beyond casting).

I guess by 'true' I mean I really don't think Joe Public really have a clue as to who WW is or the what the world she inhabits is like, I think the public know of WW, but don't actually know anything about her. People may have a perception of her, but that's where the advertising needs to kick in and making people question whether they actually know the character. I've always maintained a campaign along the lines of 'You Think You Know Her?' would be the best way to market a film, you ask the audience a question, they get curious and want to know the answer, it's one of the first things I learned in marketing, get the consumer curious. And I really can't agree with Burton's take being a camp removed version of the 60's show, you could kinda say the exact same thing about Nolan's Batman.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I guess by 'true' I mean I really don't think Joe Public really have a clue as to who WW is or the what the world she inhabits is like, I think the public know of WW, but don't actually know anything about her. People may have a perception of her, but that's where the advertising needs to kick in and making people question whether they actually know the character. I've always maintained a campaign along the lines of 'You Think You Know Her?' would be the best way to market a film, you ask the audience a question, they get curious and want to know the answer, it's one of the first things I learned in marketing, get the consumer curious.

That marketing does remind me how Abrams' Trek was marketed.

I only came to reading WW since the Heinberg reboot and I came to a theory that WW more than Bats and Supes was truly rebooted by Crisis rather than updated.

The epic mythology WW many want to see didn't exist before Perez. Supes' power level may have lessened but he'll still fighting the same level of threats(for the most part). Reeve's memory kiss doesn't look as absurd in the context of the Silver Age the movie was made in.

I'd love to see someone attempt that modern/ancient clash you speak of without camp cause that's the only way I can see it working.

And I really can't agree with Burton's take being a camp removed version of the 60's show, you could kinda say the exact same thing about Nolan's Batman.

I also said toned down.

The only dynamic Burton's Bats created that wasn't seen in the 60s version was Joker as Wayne family killer. Shooting a plane down with a pistol? Makeup poisioning?

Nolan's Bats takes the darker take from Burton and establishes new dynamics. The training/mentor. Alfred as guide. Lucius Fox and gadget master. Commisioner Gordon's personality. The state of Gotham before and after.

It was a progression. Hulk jumped from fugitive loner to scientist with ex-girlfriend/co-worker with father issues.

 

[Timstuff]

I just watched Princess and the Frog on Netflix last night. It was a very good film, definitely the best we've seen out of Disney since the first half of the 1990's. It was great to see the Disney I knew and loved has returned.

 

[GL1]

I guess by 'true' I mean I really don't think Joe Public really have a clue as to who WW is or the what the world she inhabits is like, I think the public know of WW, but don't actually know anything about her. People may have a perception of her, but that's where the advertising needs to kick in and making people question whether they actually know the character. I've always maintained a campaign along the lines of 'You Think You Know Her?' would be the best way to market a film, you ask the audience a question, they get curious and want to know the answer, it's one of the first things I learned in marketing, get the consumer curious.

That marketing does remind me how Abrams' Trek was marketed.

I only came to reading WW since the Heinberg reboot and I came to a theory that WW more than Bats and Supes was truly rebooted by Crisis rather than updated.

The epic mythology WW many want to see didn't exist before Perez. Supes' power level may have lessened but he'll still fighting the same level of threats(for the most part). Reeve's memory kiss doesn't look as absurd in the context of the Silver Age the movie was made in.

I'd love to see someone attempt that modern/ancient clash you speak of without camp cause that's the only way I can see it working.

Definitely, things along the lines of 'not your mother's wonder woman' definitely come to mind. I've also subscribed to TCbK's theory of Wonder Woman being truly rebooted after Crisis. Most notably: her status quo and supporting cast changed. Steve and Etta weren't around anymore, for instance. It's one thing to add some cool new stuff and revise people, it's another to remove characters. Can you imagine if Lois and Jimmy had become an old married couple post-crisis?

I like the idea of modern+ancient, but I don't think it sells itself. When I look at things like Percy Jackson, the idea of mt olympus remaining in some sort of standstill, despite a lack of worship for most of them, is a bit ridiculous to me, and it makes them look instantly irrelevant. Likewise, updating the monsters as hiding in plain sight makes them impotent. Bring the Gods to the modern day changed and bring the monsters as-is, their arrival should have the same appeal as a disaster movie, when we see things we know and understand consumed and destroyed by things we do not. Epic.

 

[Timstuff]

What I thought would work well for a Wonder Woman movie would be that the Olympians left earth voluntarily when the humans no longer followed or venerated them. However, Ares in his greed was not content in no longer being able to feed off of the psychic energy of our warfare, and so during early 20th century he returned and made a bid to return to power, ultimately resulting in World War 2. The other Olympians banished him for his treachery, imprisoning him with no power. In the 21st century, however, he escapes from his confinement due to the efforts of the Sons of Ares, a well funded terrorist organization who are responsible for a recent string of attacks.

Also, you could have Hades as a potential villain in the third film, since like Ares he craves the power he once held by collecting the energy released by the Earth's dead. He's more powerful than Ares and he also has a tie to Wonder Woman's origin, so he'd be a good way to tie things up at the end while still allowing the use of Ares in the first film. He could have been conspiring with Ares to create a world that was full of warfare and death so that the two of them could go beyond their original power and rule the Earth, and the other Olympians would be unable to stop them. Because of Wonder Woman's interference though, Hades would be forced to complete his plans without Ares-- not that he would mind being the earth's sole ruler, if all goes to plan. Also, Wonder Woman would have to fight zombie soldiers. Lots of them.

 

[Mercurius]

The overused "terrorist scare" should be absent from WW.

 

[shadowolf007]

Whoever they get to play Diana Prince/WW doesn't matter as long as Lynda Carter has a cameo role in the movie!!!

 

[Timstuff]

The overused "terrorist scare" should be absent from WW.

Not "terrorist scare," terrorist ATTACKS, where people actually die. This should be a plot thread that exists before the movie starts, and it's because of the war against the Sons of Ares that Steve ultimately ends up on Themyscara. Wonder Woman in the 40's fought against the nazis, and if you want a contemporary but equivalent enemy for Wonder Woman to square off against, they can use terrorism based around violent religious ideology since that is painting the landscape of modern warfare. Wonder Woman is a superhero that gets directly involved with wars, and if you have to use an imaginary enemy for her to fight I'd rather she fight terrorists connected to Ares rather than some made up country like Buttheadistan. A plot involving terrorism would make it feel relevant to the modern world while staying true to Wonder Woman's role as a warrior superhero.

 

[Mercurius]

Not "terrorist scare," terrorist ATTACKS, where people actually die. This should be a plot thread that exists before the movie starts, and it's because of the war against the Sons of Ares that Steve ultimately ends up on Themyscara. Wonder Woman in the 40's fought against the nazis, and if you want a contemporary but equivalent enemy for Wonder Woman to square off against, they can use terrorism based around violent religious ideology since that is painting the landscape of modern warfare. Wonder Woman is a superhero that gets directly involved with wars, and if you have to use an imaginary enemy for her to fight I'd rather she fight terrorists connected to Ares rather than some made up country like Buttheadistan. A plot involving terrorism would make it feel relevant to the modern world while staying true to Wonder Woman's role as a warrior superhero.

I don't think so.

Terrorism is much more complex ideologically, difficult to deal properly in a movie like that. It has become a caricature, and way too schematic. A great deal of people still die of starvation and are annihilated in ethnic conflicts across the world, for instance.

Why pinpointing in this vast display of destruction and violence, as an Amazon, a goddess, terrorist attacks?

I think Iron Man dealt with that the best way possible, Stark also admiting a mea culpa in the warmongering business.

WWII is much easier to deal with, the lines were clearer, EVEN IF when we come to the nasty details the "good guys" are shaken.

The plot you suggested is a very interesting one, but the terrorism thing truly is the Achilles' heel of it.

 

[Timstuff]

How is using terrorists in the story any more of a pitfall than a movie that uses a made up "evil" country? Doesn't the latter, or even WW2 Nazi-smashing movies do a disservice to all the people who have to endure the oppressive regimes that overtake their countries and give them a bad name to the rest of the world? Most terrorist groups nowadays are nationless. The countries that they come from are not necessarily bad countries, but they are difficult enough to live in that there are just enough angry, hateful people for the terrorists to find recruits. There are even people born in America who joined Al Quada's terrorist movement, like John Walker Lindh and Nidal Malik Hasan, who was a medic in our own army!

No matter what kind of enemy you use in the movie, if it's a real life problem (read: not a mad scientist or sci-fi monster), it's going to be a challenge to do it justice when the main character is a larger than life hero that uses fantastical methods to overcome problems. However, I feel like using terrorism is something that would be more relevant to modern audiences, and it would also make for a much better way to tie in with Ares. If you invent a country, not only is it a hard sell to the audience, but also in this case it does not fit. Wonder Woman needs to either face an enemy that is a real life problem, like the nazis, or one that relates to her mythology. Or, you can take the third option with the Ares cult, and do something in between the two.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

How is using terrorists in the story any more of a pitfall than a movie that uses a made up "evil" country? Doesn't the latter, or even WW2 Nazi-smashing movies do a disservice to all the people who have to endure the oppressive regimes that overtake their countries and give them a bad name to the rest of the world? Most terrorist groups nowadays are nationless. The countries that they come from are not necessarily bad countries, but they are difficult enough to live in that there are just enough angry, hateful people for the terrorists to find recruits. There are even people born in America who joined Al Quada's terrorist movement, like John Walker Lindh and Nidal Malik Hasan, who was a medic in our own army!

but what about homegrown terrorism like the Oklahoma City Bomber? Diana is an outsider, would she actually identify it as terrorism or a cult under the sway of an actual living deity?

I really don't think we want to go there.

No matter what kind of enemy you use in the movie, if it's a real life problem (read: not a mad scientist or sci-fi monster), it's going to be a challenge to do it justice when the main character is a larger than life hero that uses fantastical methods to overcome problems. However, I feel like using terrorism is something that would be more relevant to modern audiences, and it would also make for a much better way to tie in with Ares. If you invent a country, not only is it a hard sell to the audience, but also in this case it does not fit. Wonder Woman needs to either face an enemy that is a real life problem, like the nazis, or one that relates to her mythology. Or, you can take the third option with the Ares cult, and do something in between the two.

If people can handle imaginary cities and islands, I don't see why countries would be a problem.
I'm not advocating for anything, I just don't see your choices as the only way.

 

[Venomfan]

those new taylor cole pics are quite nice.

 

[jmc]

I don't have a problem with a terrorist angle granted it's not your stereotypical movie terrorist group. Think of it this way, real world religious extremism can be adapted in the context of a story involving Ares, there is allegory there, instead of them worshiping God or Allah or whoever, the extremists can be worshiping Ares and the beauty is they don't have to be exclusive to one particular race or nation, Ares extremists could and should be from everywhere, perhaps even making it look as if certain races/nations are the ones causing all the mayhem and carnage thus leading to World War 3. I've often though not only soldiers, but politicians and government officials, big business owners, any persons of power around the world are part of the movement, perhaps unknowing there are others involved. I like the idea that Ares promises each person something, but each person doesn't know they're being used for Ares own purpose, you could in fact have a plot where say some high ranking US general worships Ares with the promise of protection for his nation but in reality is leading his nation into a world war. I think terrorism can be looked at, but I think it needs to be looked at from a slightly different perspective.

 

[Timstuff]

That's a pretty cool idea, and it would be in keeping with Ares to play both sides of conflict. The Sons of Ares, if they do have organization as a terrorist group, would be very secretive and would not want publicity since their goal is to create chaos and fear, which in turn leads to war. In that sense they would be a lot like the terrorists from The Sum of All Fears (the book, not so much the movie). There should be some mystery and intrigue involve in discovering the Sons of Ares and how they relate to the movie world's recent terror attacks and international tensions, and as you said, there should be people involved who don't even realize that they are pawns.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

those new taylor cole pics are quite nice.

Nice? She's ****in' stunning! t:

 

[Timstuff]

Where are said pix?

 

[jmc]

That's a pretty cool idea, and it would be in keeping with Ares to play both sides of conflict. The Sons of Ares, if they do have organization as a terrorist group, would be very secretive and would not want publicity since their goal is to create chaos and fear, which in turn leads to war. In that sense they would be a lot like the terrorists from The Sum of All Fears (the book, not so much the movie). There should be some mystery and intrigue involve in discovering the Sons of Ares and how they relate to the movie world's recent terror attacks and international tensions, and as you said, there should be people involved who don't even realize that they are pawns.

It's so funny you mention The Sums of All Fears, that combined with the Gods and Mortals storyline is what gave me the idea, I've had it for at least 3 years. I love the idea of regular people who are honestly aligning themselves with Ares thinking they're doing what's best for their country only to figure out they've just started World War 3.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I don't have a problem with a terrorist angle granted it's not your stereotypical movie terrorist group. Think of it this way, real world religious extremism can be adapted in the context of a story involving Ares, there is allegory there, instead of them worshiping God or Allah or whoever, the extremists can be worshiping Ares and the beauty is they don't have to be exclusive to one particular race or nation, Ares extremists could and should be from everywhere, perhaps even making it look as if certain races/nations are the ones causing all the mayhem and carnage thus leading to World War 3. I've often though not only soldiers, but politicians and government officials, big business owners, any persons of power around the world are part of the movement, perhaps unknowing there are others involved. I like the idea that Ares promises each person something, but each person doesn't know they're being used for Ares own purpose, you could in fact have a plot where say some high ranking US general worships Ares with the promise of protection for his nation but in reality is leading his nation into a world war. I think terrorism can be looked at, but I think it needs to be looked at from a slightly different perspective.

Kinda like the Hellfire Club/ Illuminati agle?

if so me like.

 

[Lobo]

Where are said pix?

In the hottie thread, and hi-rs versions over at egotas...

 

[GL1]

I like the idea of acolytes of ares as pawns as antagonists. It's perfect for a TV series, actually. I could see having varoius persons in varoius places work great for a recurring issue. Distilling it into a movie form could be cool too, though you'd have to be kinda slick to keep it from taking up a bunch of time. You'd have to have some visual shorthand for 'this person has talked with Ares' rather than spending time having Ares personally counsel with a businessman, before he goes into his meeting, before we see the relatively minor financial aspect of Ares master plan.

 

[Timstuff]

All they have to do is show Ares converse with and manipulate two persons on opposite sides of a conflict to get the idea that he does this sort of thing quite a bit.