Wonder Woman vs the Dark Knight

[NotNickFury]

I think the only competition for The Dark Knight is Captain America: Civil War. I think it's Marvel's best film for sure, but it still doesn't eclipse The Dark Knight.

Civil War over Winter Soldier? Considering it and Dark Knight are the second films in their series, anyway.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Okay, we can pretty much all accept that Wonder Woman is a vastly superior film to Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad - Personally, I think it was definitely better than Man of Steel (although not by as much as critics suggest, as I think MoS got a worse reception than it deserved).

However, it's current RT ranking puts it on a par with The Dark Knight, which is probably the best superhero film ever made IMO (and there are one or two people who agree with me) and is held up, by some, as one of the best films ever made, full stop.y

And yes, I realise that RT ratings are not the be all and end all of determining a film's quality. However, why not ask the question ?

Is Wonder Woman as good as TDK ? Better ? Not as good ? Are you snorting derisively at my temerity for asking ?

And.....go !

No, we won't. I don't think Suicide Squad is better but I'm sure there are people out there who do.

 

[NealKenneth]

its currently winning this poll. So much for TDK being "in question".

It's currently splitting 33-66 against a film that's probably about as good as TFA, which is considered in the lower half of MCU films.

there have been two DC films that have been considered MCU quality since 2008. They're called The Dark Knight Rises and The Lego Batman movie. And no, your subjective opinion does not change the fact that these two movies have a high amount of critical acclaim.

Dark Knight Rises was 2008, that's the movie I was referring to. Lego Batman was critically acclaimed but a financial dissapointment and I don't think many people would consider it a DC film anyway...it was more like satire. So I repeat, Wonder Woman is the first MCU quality film that DC has put out in almost a decade.

If DC keeps making films on the quality of MCU, I guarantee you TDK will disappear like Spider-Man 2. Great films, yes, but only one has starving fanboys that need to continuously pretend it's still relevant.

 

[The Joker]

Dark Knight Rises was 2008, that's the movie I was referring to.

TDKR was in 2012, not 2008.

 

[Grommers]

Every time some critically acclaimed CBM comes out...it gets put against TDK in a poll. And TDK wins. Every time. Matter of fact, its currently winning this poll. So much for TDK being "in question".

Also, there have been two DC films that have been considered MCU quality since 2008. They're called The Dark Knight Rises and The Lego Batman movie. And no, your subjective opinion does not change the fact that these two movies have a high amount of critical acclaim.

Please don't think any MCU film is close in comparison to even tdkr with the exception of IM1. Even the faults of tdkr don't stack up that it's still highly disussed and critiqued compared to every other CBM film.


Lego Batman yeah it's the same level as the MCUs...which is pretty funny imo

 

[Boom]

The Dark Knight Rises gets way too much flak within the fan community, in my opinion. Despite its flaws, I'd easily rank it among the MCU's best.

 

[NealKenneth]

TDKR was in 2012, not 2008.

This isn't the first time I've messed this fact up believe it or not...haha. Anyway, I think Rises is underrated and MCU quality (although it doesn't feel much like a superhero film really.) My point is the Nolan films in general are protected by the fact that their hasn't been any DC competition until a few days ago.

 

[Ivan Drago]

I wonder how people will feel about Wonder Woman in 9 years.

My personal opinion? People probably won't think much of it. Especially if Captain Marvel turns out great and we get other female led cbm's in upcoming years.

 

[2kt09]

I wonder how people will feel about Wonder Woman in 9 years.

My personal opinion? People probably won't think much of it. Especially if Captain Marvel turns out great and we get other female led cbm's in upcoming years.

yeah...but grandfather clause

 

[The Batman]

It's currently splitting 33-66 against a film that's probably about as good as TFA, which is considered in the lower half of MCU films.

TDK has 20 votes to WW's 8. It has over double the votes WW has. Stop acting like this is a close contest. So far, It isn't.

Dark Knight Rises was 2008, that's the movie I was referring to. Lego Batman was critically acclaimed but a financial dissapointment and I don't think many people would consider it a DC film anyway...it was more like satire. So I repeat, Wonder Woman is the first MCU quality film that DC has put out in almost a decade.

1. As Joker mentioned, TDKR came out in 2012

2. Lego Batman is about a DC character...so its a DC film.

If DC keeps making films on the quality of MCU, I guarantee you TDK will disappear like Spider-Man 2. Great films, yes, but only one has starving fanboys that need to continuously pretend it's still relevant.

Your entire rationale has been illogical at best. In this poll, TDK has over double the votes of WW, yet you pretend that WW is giving TDK a run for its money. MCU films can't even beat TDK in polls, but for some weird reason, you think that a DC film on the same level of quality as the MCU, films that can't beat TDK, will somehow beat TDK.


And then there's the whole "Starving fanboys continuously pretend TDK is still relevant" thing. Wait a second, I have to go find the appropriate facepalm picture...

 

[Batmannerism]

No, we won't. I don't think Suicide Squad is better but I'm sure there are people out there who do.

Fair comment. I probably should have said " most" rather than " all." Having said that, I'll be surprised if many people leap to defend suicide squad as a better film than WW.

 

[NealKenneth]

I don't think the Captain Marvel film will be associated with the Wonder Woman in any special way for most people, especially a decade from now...the only people who fixate on the whole female-lead aspect of these films are a vocal minority with weird sexist/racist hangups.

 

[Grommers]

I wonder how people will feel about Wonder Woman in 9 years.

My personal opinion? People probably won't think much of it. Especially if Captain Marvel turns out great and we get other female led cbm's in upcoming years.

I don't think Captain Marvel is going to be take the steam from Wonder Woman, remember much like the avengers, wonder woman is the first of its kind, so it will be remembered, look at Batman 89, it's remembered, sure you have some big fans because it changed the seriousness of comic book movies, but a movie like TDK, opens up comic book movies to just about every fan of comic books, can wonder woman be de-throned an outshone? Yes, 100%, I highly doubt it will be done by anything in the MCU, and have my doubts coming from the DCEU as well.

I also feel that way about the first avengers, and iron man 1, all it will take is a much deeper thought provoking avengers that goes beyond the flashy-ness, comedic, end of the world gimmick, and can be put up for a serious contention for an oscar or at least big talks regarding it, thats how you outshine the current crop of CBM's.

I currently find myself wondering how so many pixar movies seem much deeper and thought provoking than most comic book movies, and that's DCEU/MCU both.

 

[NealKenneth]

It is straight delusional to pretend that only fanboys still care about TDK.

No it's not, but that's not what I said anyway.

I like TDK, I think it's a very good film, but it's just been left in the dust at this point. Especially with TWS and CW (films that have the same sort of tone and themes), there's just no comparison. The storytelling, the realization of the characters, the world, the action...the MCU is on much higher level now than Nolan ever operated. Again, not a knock against TDK or Nolan.

You have to realize that a poll like that (first of all, a link to one would be nice)...who's going to vote on it anyway? Fanboys. No one else cares

 

[Ivan Drago]

The Dark Knight is still by far and away the best film in this genre.

It's easy to take the film now for granted considering it's been 9 years, but I guarantee you in 9-10 years many of the superhero films you love now probably won't be thought of much.

TDK is still regarded as one of the best films of the 2000's, and it's iconography cannot be understated.

Winter Soldier and Civil War aren't even the same stratosphere as TDK, and it makes me laugh that people think those movies can go toe to toe.

 

[The Batman]

.

You have to realize that a poll like that (first of all, a link to one would be nice)...who's going to vote on it anyway? Fanboys. No one else cares

I'm going to try to ignore that you're asking for a link to a poll while trying to undermine said polls in the same sentence. Almost as if you're trying to cover your bases just in case.


http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=526617

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=463725&highlight=the+dark+knight

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=518807&highlight=the+dark+knight

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=518807&highlight=the+dark+knight

 

[NealKenneth]

Almost as if you're trying to cover your bases just in case.

Says the guy who links to the same poll twice and a poll about a non-MCU film to make it look like their is more evidence than their really is...

But like I explained already, these polls are irrelavent at this time. TDK is still basically surrounded by an inpentrable wall of DC fanboys, a wall that is just starting to crumble now because of WW (because, of course, they could never abandon the wall for a MARVEL film.)

I'll say it again, I think TDK is a great film, but there is a cloud of delusion regarding it's relevance. If you asked an average Thanksgiving dinner table what The Dark Knight was about, I bet sitting half wouldn't even know it had anything to do with Batman, even though it came out ten years ago. In the meantime, Guardians of the Galaxy has become a household name.

And what of it's filmaking influence? What great film has TDK inspired? It's just a string of failure...Man of Steel, BvS, that Bond film. Meanwhile DCEU just now is finding success by imitating Marvel and distancing themselves from the Nolan trilogy, while Legend is building a pretty awesome cinematic universe with Godzilla and King Kong by following the principles Marvel has demostrated.

As a Batman, Nolan and TDK fan, I'm saying that the film is severly overrated and not relevant anymore. On top of that, the changes it caused in the genre were bad, not good. I mean, TDK is responsible for some of the worst superhero films ever made!

But the real killing blow is this: people don't care to watch the Nolan trilogy anymore. When my friends and I are feeling like a superhero film, we usually settle on an MCU film. Raimi gets the occasional watch too. But never TDK, even though I've suggested it pretty frequently. We did watch Batman Begins recently, and that was very good although we were surprised by how poorly some aspects have aged.

The fact is, the general audience has moved onto bigger and better things, the only ones stuck in 2008 are the fanboys. When a history book of film is being written in 50 years, the MCU will get a chapter. TDK will be a footnote in that chapter.

 

[ludovica]

I agree this poll is quite predictable, and even if TDK is overrated by a few (it's not the greatest film ever in the history of the universe), it's a great film, while WW I think will fade away from the favorites list of many, given time.

 

[The Batman]

Says the guy who links to the same poll twice and a poll about a non-MCU film to make it look like their is more evidence than their really is...

Or, more logically, the guy who provided you three links, instead of just one like you wanted, simply made a mistake. One of those was supposed to be TDK vs The Winter Soldier.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=494127&highlight=tdk+the+winter+soldier

TDK is still basically surrounded by an inpentrable wall of DC fanboys, a wall that is just starting to crumble now because of WW (because, of course, they could never abandon the wall for a MARVEL film.)

Do you have any concrete proof of this?

I'll say it again, I think TDK is a great film, but there is a cloud of delusion regarding it's relevance.

You're the last guy to accuse anyone of delusion.

And what of it's filmaking influence? What great film has TDK inspired? It's just a string of failure...Man of Steel, BvS, that Bond film.

You mean Skyfall...that Bond movie that made over a billion dollars, more successful than most of those MCU-inspired movies you listed. Hell, MoS was mediocre, and still made more money than most MCU films. Try again.

But the real killing blow is this: people don't care to watch the Nolan trilogy anymore. When my friends

Let me stop you right there. No one cares about your friends. Provide better evidence beyond personal anecdotes.

When a history book of film is being written in 50 years, the MCU will get a chapter. TDK will be a footnote in that chapter.

LOL, the things some MCU fanboys tell themselves.

 

[BH/HHH]

In terms of rewatching I'd say Wonder Woman now simply because I over watched the Dark Knight and now I just can't seem to sit through it. So far I've seen Wonder Woman once but I can't wait to watch it again.

I do think they're very different films though and wouldn't compare them at all were it not for this thread.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I haven't seen WW yet but I will happily vote for TDK.

 

[Boom]

The Dark Knight made billion dollars at the box office (over half of that was made domestically), won a posthumous Academy Award for Heath Ledger, and came so close to a Best Picture nomination that its omission forced the Academy to expand the Best Picture field to 9+ nominees. The Dark Knight is a household name, because Batman is a household name. It's the best reviewed superhero film on RottenTomatoes and MetaCritic. The film is routinely listed as one of the greatest and most influential films of the 21st century, both by fan communities and professional institutions. And if we're going to resort to personal anecdotes, outside of the Internet community I have literally never spoken to anyone who didn't love it (Bale's hilarious bat-voice aside).

I was able to note all of this without bringing up Marvel once. Believe it or not, the Nolan Batman films and select MCU films will find their own places in the history books, and for different reasons. This "one or the other" mentality is ridiculously insular, and frankly poisonous to a healthy discussion about superhero films and their impact on the mainstream culture. The emergence of the MCU, and its successes with films like The Avengers and Guardians, doesn't suddenly diminish The Dark Knight's own contributions to the superhero genre and to film itself. Get out of here with that nonsense.

If you think TDK is overrated, that's entirely your right. But let's not pretend the film wasn't a cultural juggernaut that won't go down in cinematic history as such. I don't let my personal feelings about The Avengers cloud the fact that it was a game-changing phenomenon. Just because people aren't having daily conversations about a film that came out nine years ago doesn't mean people have forgotten it or think any less of it. By that logic, every single one of us has dismissed some of the greatest films in history. I can't recall the last time I had a spontaneous discussion about The Godfather, for instance. Doesn't mean I don't find it to be one of the greatest films ever made.

 

[Richard Grayson]

The Dark Knight made billion dollars at the box office (over half of that was made domestically), won a posthumous Academy Award for Heath Ledger, and came so close to a Best Picture nomination that its omission forced the Academy to expand the Best Picture field to 9+ nominees. The Dark Knight is a household name, because Batman is a household name. It's the best reviewed superhero film on RottenTomatoes and MetaCritic. The film is routinely listed as one of the greatest and most influential films of the 21st century, both by fan communities and professional institutions. And if we're going to resort to personal anecdotes, outside of the Internet community I have literally never spoken to anyone who didn't love it (Bale's hilarious bat-voice aside).

I was able to note all of this without bringing up Marvel once. Believe it or not, the Nolan Batman films and select MCU films will find their own places in the history books, and for different reasons. This "one or the other" mentality is ridiculously insular, and frankly poisonous to a healthy discussion about superhero films and their impact on the mainstream culture. The emergence of the MCU, and its successes with films like The Avengers and Guardians, doesn't suddenly diminish The Dark Knight's own contributions to the superhero genre and to film itself. Get out of here with that nonsense.

If you think TDK is overrated, that's entirely your right. But let's not pretend the film wasn't a cultural juggernaut that won't go down in cinematic history as such. I don't let my personal feelings about The Avengers cloud the fact that it was a game-changing phenomenon. Just because people aren't having daily conversations about a film that came out nine years ago doesn't mean people have forgotten it or think any less of it. By that logic, every single one of us has dismissed some of the greatest films in history. I can't recall the last time I had a spontaneous discussion about The Godfather, for instance. Doesn't mean I don't find it to be one of the greatest films ever made.

 

[NealKenneth]

I over watched the Dark Knight and now I just can't seem to sit through it

I haven't seen WW yet but I will happily vote for TDK.

I find it extremely funny that these were the next two comments after whatever that was supposed to be.

Again, I'm a fan of TDK and I think it's a great film. But between the DC fanboys being starved of quality for a decade, the Nolan-jerkers, Heath Ledger's death, and a whole basket of other things that have little to do with the quality of the movie itself...people got very carried away. The movie is only referenced for it's memes at this point and not watched regularily by anyone I know. I don't want to offend anyone with a personal anecdote, but I know plenty of people who regularily watch Star Wars, Indiana Jones, MCU films, Disney films, Fight Club etc. What does TDK lack that people don't bother revisiting it anymore like all those other films? I even know a few people who revisit the Raimi trilogy at least once a year and those are older superhero films and supposedly not as good.

MY POINT IS that TDK will be called into question and slowly dethroned as DC begins producing MCU-quality films. The existance of this thread itself and a sizable minority of people who already consider WW to be better is evidence that that process has finally begun.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I feel TDK is one of the most overrated films in history. So I'm walking into this with too much baggage against that film. I feel BB and TDKR are better films.