Wonder Woman vs the Dark Knight

[BH/HHH]

I find it extremely funny that these were the next two comments after whatever that was supposed to be.

I'm not sure what you mean by that I hadn't even read the previous posts before posting that. To me anyway no Superhero movie has ever reached the greatness of Richard Donner's Superman the Movie anyway. But films don't have to they just have to be great in there own right.

If you don't think the Dark Knight will be looked on as one of the true great of cinema not just superhero cinema then you are deluding yourself. I know people who aren't big on the superhero genre and rate the Dark Knight as one of there favourite films. The Dark Knight wasn't just a film it was an event. People went crazy for it and couldn't stop going to see it. It's right up there with classic like Star Wars and Jaws. People will remember it forever. Even if I myself don't really feel like watching it much these days it's clearly the stand out film in the genre of the modern era and certainly a stand out in cinema.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The Dark Knight is still by far and away the best film in this genre.

It's easy to take the film now for granted considering it's been 9 years, but I guarantee you in 9-10 years many of the superhero films you love now probably won't be thought of much.

TDK is still regarded as one of the best films of the 2000's, and it's iconography cannot be understated.

Winter Soldier and Civil War aren't even the same stratosphere as TDK, and it makes me laugh that people think those movies can go toe to toe.

Well. It is a solid number 2.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I find it extremely funny that these were the next two comments after whatever that was supposed to be.

Again, I'm a fan of TDK and I think it's a great film. But between the DC fanboys being starved of quality for a decade, the Nolan-jerkers, Heath Ledger's death, and a whole basket of other things that have little to do with the quality of the movie itself...people got very carried away. The movie is only referenced for it's memes at this point and not watched regularily by anyone I know. I don't want to offend anyone with a personal anecdote, but I know plenty of people who regularily watch Star Wars, Indiana Jones, MCU films, Disney films, Fight Club etc. What does TDK lack that people don't bother revisiting it anymore like all those other films? I even know a few people who revisit the Raimi trilogy at least once a year and those are older superhero films and supposedly not as good.

MY POINT IS that TDK will be called into question and slowly dethroned as DC begins producing MCU-quality films. The existance of this thread itself and a sizable minority of people who already consider WW to be better is evidence that that process has finally begun.

Hi, I'm Darth. My brother and I watch TDK 5 times a year.

On another note, perhaps you should go out on Halloween. Because quite a few people still dress up like a certain Joker. And he isn't Damaged.

Your point, which is is flimsy at best, of course avoids such things as fandom, where people suddenly throw out the old to support the new. We have seen this with every reboot. This does not change general public perception. The success of the live action Beauty and the Beast, Jurassic World, and The Force Awakens are really good example of this. Long term memory of something so culturally significant is not brushed away because you say so.

You think it is overrated, that is your opinion. That doesn't apply to anyone else and you have no actual evidence to shows this.

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/rank-every-dc-superhero-movie/

 

[NealKenneth]

fandom, where people suddenly throw out the old to support the new. We have seen this with every reboot. This does not change general public perception. The success of the live action Beauty and the Beast, Jurassic World, and The Force Awakens are really good example of this.

Actually they aren't good examples of that at all.

General consensus for at least two of those three films is that they are disappointing compared to the originals. I'm not sure about Beauty and the Beast, haven't followed that one. So, it seems people actually tend to enshrine the originals, which in this case would apply to TDK instead of WW...so thank you for providing additional strength to my point, I guess.

you have no actual evidence to shows this.

Except for this thread and poll that we're posting in. It literally took one day past a decent DC film for the dethroning process to begin.

I know you all would like to dismiss me as a Marvel fanboy or DC hater, but I'm not. I think TDK is great and I've said that multiple times. I'm just saying DC fanboys have had a hard time accepting that TDK has been surpassed because it's only happened with Marvel films (so far.) If the DCEU pulls off something as good as say, The Avengers...perceptions of TDK will change dramatically.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Actually they aren't good examples of that at all.

General consensus for at least two of those three films is that they are disappointing compared to the originals. I'm not sure about Beauty and the Beast, haven't followed that one. So, it seems people actually tend to enshrine the originals, which in this case would apply to TDK instead of WW...so thank you for providing additional strength to my point, I guess.Except for this thread and poll that we're posting in. It literally took one day past a decent DC film for the dethroning process to begin.

You clearly didn't understand the point. BatB and Jurassic Park aren't exactly considered to be in relevant pop culture using your logic. TFA was coming of the prequels, while many were saying it wasn't going to do Marvel business. These movies did all time business based on nostalgia for movies using your logic wouldn't matter because they aren't relevant, like TDK is no longer relevant. This shows exactly how much BS such arguments are. You announce Nolan is making a new Batman with Bale tomorrow, it makes more money then any DCEU movie yet.

You know why? Because they are beloved.

Also, no. BatB has had fantastic legs after big opening. JW had even better legs after an even bigger opening. TFA is the all time king. The general audiences loved them.

I know you all would like to dismiss me as a Marvel fanboy or DC hater, but I'm not. I think TDK is great and I've said that multiple times. I'm just saying DC fanboys have had a hard time accepting that TDK has been surpassed because it's only happened with Marvel films (so far.) If the DCEU pulls off something as good as say, The Avengers...perceptions of TDK will change dramatically.

TDK has 72% of the vote...

And no Marvel movie has surpassed TDK.

 

[Snow Queen]

Actually they aren't good examples of that at all.

General consensus for at least two of those three films is that they are disappointing compared to the originals. I'm not sure about Beauty and the Beast, haven't followed that one. So, it seems people actually tend to enshrine the originals, which in this case would apply to TDK instead of WW...so thank you for providing additional strength to my point, I guess.Except for this thread and poll that we're posting in. It literally took one day past a decent DC film for the dethroning process to begin.

I know you all would like to dismiss me as a Marvel fanboy or DC hater, but I'm not. I think TDK is great and I've said that multiple times. I'm just saying DC fanboys have had a hard time accepting that TDK has been surpassed because it's only happened with Marvel films (so far.) If the DCEU pulls off something as good as say, The Avengers...perceptions of TDK will change dramatically.

That's exactly it. Because not every good CBM seems to get a poll where it's held up against The Dark Knight. The fact that's always the go to standard says enough.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Well. It is a solid number 2.

To be honest, I agree. Excellence.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's exactly it. Because not every good CBM seems to get a poll where it's held up against The Dark Knight. The fact that's always the go to standard says enough.

Rubbish!!!!!!!

 

[jmc]

To be honest I'm kind of tired of these 'vs TDK' polls because it only ever ends one way.

 

[Consona]

Okay, we can pretty much all accept that Wonder Woman is a vastly superior film to Batman v Superman

I think it was definitely better than Man of Steel

But I respect your opinion. t:



And let me be honest here. It makes me laugh, roll my eyes and shake my head to the point it really hurts every time somebody says Avengers is a better film than The Dark Knight. Avengers is not even the best MCU film, not to say the best CBM film, more so one of the best films ever. Yet you could rather easily argue the latter two are the cases with TDK.
/disclaimer: If The Avengers brings you more pleasure and happiness than TDK, let it be the better one for you, sure.
[BLACKOUT]BUT IT'S NOT[/BLACKOUT]

 

[InCali]

I just got back from seeing WW and IMO it is easily the best DCEU movie (We aren't talking Nolan Trilogy movies). I thought the JL trailer looked pretty cool as did SM:H. I'll pass on $#!tFormers.

My take on WW is that Patty did a terrific job and the script allowed the characters to seem more like real humans than most CBMs. I thought Chris Pine did a terrific job also and I loved the interactions between the characters. Gal had a script that fit her well, but I don't think she's a particularly accomplished actor at this point in time. I really liked the beginning because it set the stage for what makes WW tick....the end also did if you look at it from the perspective of BvS.

I thought Gal's performance was remarkably similar to (though better than) her performance in BvS. Jenkins did a much better job of directing than did Snyder and I think that helped Gal. There were no robotic or adderall induced performances in this movie (which I appreciated).

Please don't compare it to TDK. That's out on the fringes.

 

[The Batman]

I know you all would like to dismiss me as a Marvel fanboy or DC hater, but I'm not.

I used to think you were just a biased MCU fanboy. Now, I'm starting to think that you're either delusional or just trying to get a rise out of people.

You have no credible evidence for any of your arguments.

 

[InCali]

Actually they aren't good examples of that at all.

General consensus for at least two of those three films is that they are disappointing compared to the originals. I'm not sure about Beauty and the Beast, haven't followed that one. So, it seems people actually tend to enshrine the originals, which in this case would apply to TDK instead of WW...so thank you for providing additional strength to my point, I guess.Except for this thread and poll that we're posting in. It literally took one day past a decent DC film for the dethroning process to begin.

I know you all would like to dismiss me as a Marvel fanboy or DC hater, but I'm not. I think TDK is great and I've said that multiple times. I'm just saying DC fanboys have had a hard time accepting that TDK has been surpassed because it's only happened with Marvel films (so far.) If the DCEU pulls off something as good as say, The Avengers...perceptions of TDK will change dramatically.

By what? I generally like Marvel movies better than DCEU movies, but I think Nolan's work is noticeable better.

Maybe I'm missing something because I haven't been following the thread???

 

[The Batman]

You haven't missed anything. Neal hasn't, and probably won't actually back up anything he's been saying.

Oh wait, I'm sorry...his friends watch the MCU and not TDK, so it's been surpassed.

 

[NealKenneth]

You have no credible evidence for any of your arguments.

Well it must be very easy to maintain your viewpoint when you also get to pick and choose what is credible.

I mean, here we are discussing this in a thread that showed up where multiple people say WW is the better film and other people openly admit voting TDK without even seeing WW...yet none of that is counts of course. I mean, sure, we're talking about the same fanbase that literally has threads that go on for dozens of pages looking for evidence of conspiracy and bias against DC amongst the general audience. The same community that makes accusations of collusion against aggregates like RT leading to petitions that get thousands of signatures.

But yeah, none of that evidence is credible and it's totally implausible that there's any fanboy activity here.

You know why TDK is the one every poll compares to? Because the DC fanboys are the only ones who care about these polls and it's the only film they had for almost ten years. The Marvel fans are busy celebrating the new films and speculating on future ones to even bother with such a toxic question...to be honest, I actually feel bad for the hardcore DC fans, they had to sit on the sidelines while the bar kept getting raised over and over and over. And I'm sure the Marvel fanboys would have reacted mostly the same as the DC fanboys have if the tables were turned.

Let me put it this way...if Iron Man had floopped and Green Lantern had been amazing, this poll wouldn't be up against TDK. It'd be up against Spider-Man 2.

 

[The Batman]

Well it must be very easy to maintain your viewpoint when you also get to pick and choose what is credible.

No, its easy to maintain my viewpoint because the guy with the opposing argument (You, in case you don't realize it) has no valid argument.

 

[Boom]

I'm still waiting for solid, concrete evidence that TDK has been surpassed, forgotten, and/or diminished in its cultural and cinematic significance.

Fire away.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm still waiting for solid, concrete evidence that TDK has been surpassed, forgotten, and/or diminished in its cultural and cinematic significance.

Fire away.

 

[halo10]

there may never be a superhero film that come close to the Dark Knight's extraordinary and unique elements of story line plot, twists and turns in combination with the performance of the late Heath Ledgers' Joker.

but make no mistake, the success of Wonder Woman vastly helped the stock of DC films which have been underwhelming to say the least.
and it's no longer just depending on Batman or Superman now.

i hope director Patty jenkins gets another go at it again for the sequel of Wonder Woman 2.

 

[The Batman]

I'm still waiting for solid, concrete evidence that TDK has been surpassed, forgotten, and/or diminished in its cultural and cinematic significance.

Fire away.

I'm just gonna quote this every time he comes up with a long winded response that just recycles his unsubstantiated argument.

 

[Ivan Drago]

I agree this poll is quite predictable, and even if TDK is overrated by a few (it's not the greatest film ever in the history of the universe), it's a great film, while WW I think will fade away from the favorites list of many, given time.

I'd agree to this.

 

[The Joker]

NealKenneth, are your fingers not aching from clutching those small straws for so long?

 

[Visualiza]

I'm just gonna quote this every time he comes up with a long winded response that just recycles his unsubstantiated argument.

I look at it the same way I do when someone tries to say that the latest MVP or scoring leader is better than Michael Jordan. We'll be able to crown a new G.O.A.T. when Jordan(TDK) doesn't need to be mentioned in the same breath as whoever that may be. It will be self-evident.

 

[NealKenneth]

You'd think at some point I'd learn to stop arguing with fanboys but...here I go again. Searched "best superhero movies of all time" and sorted by past year to keep it relatively up to date.

Top result: https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/best-superhero-movies-ranked/

Iron Man and The Winter Soldier outrank TDK with the latter getting the top spot. Humorously, the article includes "The Dark Knight is not number one on this list. You have been warned." because the phenomona I've been describing all afternoon is obvious outside of the DC fanboy bubble.

Second result: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/01/the-100-best-superhero-movies-of-all-time.html?p=4

The Avengers, which was being laughed off earlier in this thread, outranks TDK.

For good measure, RottenTomatoes also put out it's own ranking a few days ago and Logan outranks TDK: https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/50-best-superhero-movies-of-all-time/5/ This happens despite the fact that Logan had to compete with much more competition (about 40 superhero movies came out between Logan and TDK that Logan was compared to but TDK obviously wasn't.)

This got me curious about Metacritic because that score obviously has a bit more nuance to it. The most recent article they put out comparing Marvel and DC films was 2010 unfortunately, but amazingly, even then TDK was beaten by Spider-Man 2:
http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best-and-worst-comic-book-movies

To recap: 1) the two most popular articles from the past year ranking superhero films have TDK lower than Marvel films and 2) the most recent rankings from the two most popular aggregates have TDK lower than Marvel films.

Considering critics like these have been the foundation of your argument so far...I can't wait to see how you guys explain that these links don't count as solid, concrete evidence that TDK has been "surpassed." Or are they just delusions in my mind? Do they not count because I'm long-winded???

Seriously, though, I do feel bad for you guys and I'm not meaning to be cruel by pointing this out. TDK deserves respect, especially for it's time, and all I'm saying is that the MCU has passed it by. I'm out of this thread after this post, I'm clearly either twisting a dagger or talking to a brick wall at this point and I don't care to do either of those things.

 

[halo10]

i'm surprised there's few to very little threads dedicated to Wonder Woman.
As you know female superhero films do not do well at the box office

- when was the last female superhero (if any) that did well here in the domestic United States ?