Worst moments in movies

[Zev]

Originally posted by Quentin Black I take it reading isn't one of your strong points, lol. It's not too hard if you try.

I dismiss MWF as an introdction point to DD only as they screwed up Elektra but I also said it does have good characterisation of Matt. Not surprisingly it is also what I have said here, Elektra does get screwed up but what the comic does for Matt is undeniable.



Bullseye climbed up the fire escape. They never show the whole few hours of him looking for Elektra, they just show him eventually reaching his destination.

And why, pray tell, is he looking for Elekta ON THE ROOFTOPS?

So no, he can't do superhuman leaps.

He can, however, somehow telekinetically grab Daredevil's billy club. Seriously, how'd he do that?

Those 'goofs' show him constantly doing superhuman things which also include landing on a taxi from a 40 story jump, managing to get to the top of a skyscraper and leaping very high in to the air. That is how he is in the comics whether it is official or not.

The comics also show him fighting aliens, demons, and the Hulk. The self-stated intention of the movie was to bring Daredevil into the 'real world'. Hence he has the motorcycle suit, Elektra has her cliche leather outfit instead of the red silk, etc. Yet characters are able to do these radically superhuman things.

He went to the church to recover. He couldn't fight him on the roof. Had he attacked Bullseye on the roof he would have most likely lost and Bullseye isn't going to stick around to fight the police. Daredevil just about manages to get enough energy to excape and recover for a while. It was only when he went in to the church and got confronted did he get up and fight. He knows how high the stakes are and he has to fight or he will die. He doesn't even do very good job of it in the end and only won through a last minute save.

Yes, yes, yes. We've been over this before. Everyone accepts the Bullseye fight, even if it is pretty far-fetched how at one moment he's as helpless as this.

Then he's suddenly able to hold off a trained assassin when the plot calls for it.

Both arms are important and he does use both arms to fight but all the punches he pulls are with his right arm because his left arm is injured. He dodges for the most part of the fight and only wins by dodging and breaking the guys knees. I like how he does that. He goes against Kingpin in a similar state of mind and health in Hardcore and wins. You have no point.

He is not in a similar health in Hardcore. In Hardcore he was only burned recently, NOT with an open wound in his arm, causing him to bleed to death.

I hope that the police managed to deal with whatever crime was being commited but I think the love of his life was worth it. I have answered you, try...y'know, that little thing called reading.

You just don't get Daredevil, you know that? Besides, as the movie shows, it wasn't the love of his life, just a one-week stand.

I have a sense of humour. The difference is I know when it is appropriate and how weak using it to cover up a lack of knowledge of something during an argument. Imagine if all debates had puerile people like you who cracked bad jokes to ridicule whatever their against when they run out of things to say, our world really would be screwed.

Imagine if all debates had people calling others' supporters 'lapdogs' and 'sidekicks'. And if their opponants don't agree with them, they must be 'slow'.

This isn't a political debate. People come online to get away from their day jobs and have fun. That involves, GASP!, telling jokes.

Don't be an ass (whoops, too late). I know you got your knowledge of Daredevil from TPBs, just like me. You just can't accept that MWF was out of continuity, hence Daredevil killing people and Elektra being psychotic. From its inception as a movie treatment, it was never intended to fit in with the main series. That's why Matt fights the Fixer and his men without his costume on and other various discrepancies.

Frank Miller has had bad spots too. Remember the first story in Daredevil Visionaries 3? The doctor blabs on about the evils of angel dust for 2/3rds of a page. But since this isn't Worst Moments in Comic Books...

As robobat would say, Daredevil The Movie is whack, to a level on par with a heart attack.

 

[Herr Logan]

Originally posted by Quentin Black
Hey I only speak the truth, don't shoot the messenger. You obviously don't know enough to realise that they did explain his increased strength and balance and you don't seem to know a lot about the character from the comics itself. Nice dodge of every other line in the post btw. You still haven't yet explained why it is fine for your master to use even more juvenile and weak insults...I would desribe it as double standards (really quite fitting) but if I did that you'd probably use it again to dodge the rest of the post.

lol, I'm quite the fan of art myself but I don't need to post that fact to prove myself like you did. No mate, the word art doesn't give you more credibility and pretending the entertainment industry doesn't match up to your 'superior needs' doesn't make you sound any better.

My arguements are only circular because I have to repeat the same or similar points, backed up, to show the error of some nitpicks that you guys enjoy repeating. Like the insults it comes from both sides but you know it's down to the thing (that I can't mention) that is in fashion.

Again, if you insist on viewing yourself in that way that's fine. Still doesn't change your sidekick attributes.

Aren't you happy now that you've found another label you can use as an insult, over and over again until you sound like Rain Man and you give people one more reason not to take you seriously?
Whoever said I thought using the word "art" made me sound superior or somehow proved a point or gave me more credibility? If you don't believe anything I say (which is obvious), then it doesn't raise my credibility any, and wasn't intended to. "Art" doesn't describe a damn thing, you know. It's a practically meaningless word so broad that it encompasses almost everything. I use it because it's a broad enough word to describe Zev's writing, since I already used "satire" and I was too tired to access my vocabulary any further. I'm not using it in a pretentious way. I'm not trying to fool anyone into thinking anything about myself, Zev, the movies we're discussing, or anything else. I explained my actions, since I've nothing to hide. Porn is art. Finger-painting is art. Grafiti is art. "Art" doesn't say anything at all about quality or appropriateness. It just is. When I say "artistic talent," I'm saying I appreciate people who are good at what they do. Zev is talented in satire and holding his own pretty well in a debate. You're very poor in argument. See why I compliment him and not you? I respect verbal ability. Grow up and accept that it's not just about you and it's not based on anything that wasn't a part of my personality before I ever came to these boards. Overall, Zev insults you less than you insult him, and he does it much more skillfully. It's only the novelty and creativity that makes it look like more quantity than the venom coming from you. Listen to you use the same small list of words over and over. "Pretender," "but that's okay because...," "double standards" and now "sidekick" and "lapdog." I sure as hell hope you have a lapdog of your own who's impressed by your clumsy and unimaginative hostility. There's nothing truly at stake here. If someone insulted me and did a good job of it, I'd appreciate that. Zev has gone easy on you, and so have I. Granted, I'm sure you're showing restraint as well, but you're the one who made all this personal (at least with me) and you're the one who can't hold up his end of a debate. If this can be called a debate. You're predictable and you've got very little to say that holds meaning. I see your words as much more childish than Zev's, even though they reveal a moderately high level of verbal ability. It's like watching the Scorpion and Spider-Man in battle. Scorpion isn't dumb, but he's not exactly PhD material either. He spouts the same threats and insults over and over again, using heavy-handed attacks while Spider-Man performs acrobatics around him, spouting a variety of humorous retorts and makes Scorpy look like a fool. You see why I keep coming back here? If you saw Spider-Man and the Scorpion fighting, whom would you root for? Wait, don't tell me... Ben Affleck in a ersatz Daredevil costume.

 

[angelus777]

EVERTONE SHUT UP, THE WORST MOMENT IN COMIC MOVIE HISTORY OR MAYBE FILM HISTORY IS WHEN BATMAN GETS OUT HIS VISA BATMAN CARD AND SAYS NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE!!!

 

[Herr Logan]

Originally posted by angelus777
EVERTONE SHUT UP, THE WORST MOMENT IN COMIC MOVIE HISTORY OR MAYBE FILM HISTORY IS WHEN BATMAN GETS OUT HIS VISA BATMAN CARD AND SAYS NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE!!!

Was it Visa? I thought "Never leave home without it" is the American Express slogan (it was actually used in the beginning of "Batman" (1989). All I remember is that it said "Batman Forever Card" or something to that effect.

 

[Quentin Black]

Because Elektra is on the rooftops looking for Daredevil. It's really not that hard to figure out. Where his prey goes, he goes.

Wow, you've taken nitpicking to a whole new low. How did he grab his billy club...well dear, it's a trick, you're not meant to know. That's like seeing a magician doing a trick in a film and you complaining that you didn't get to know how it worked.

Wow, let's take away his powers while we're at it if we're going to remove the 'comicy' superhuman stunts Bringing superheroes to a more real world does not mean removing the super part of superhero.

Not really considering for all we know he could of had a few hours to recover before Bullseye came after him. Cornered people who have no choice tend to fight harder and even then he sisn't do a great job.

Even if he did lose a lot of blood it obviously wasn't enough to kill him. She didn't hit an artery or vein and he coped. It's a movie, if you want to take blood loss and forensics seriously then you're going to hate most action films/TV programs, but guess what? Nobody does.

I get DD obviously a lot better than you do. He loved her. Even for only one week, he loved her. All the chemistry and moments were there and the chosing her makes him all the more human.

Hey the insults come from boths sides, I just don't resort to bad humour to cover up a lack of points...mainly because I have some decent ones. Call it what you want but if you can't take it seriously people aren't going to take you seriously...oh wait, people stopped doing that a long time ago.

Well considering at the beginning of this you showed your complete lack of understanding of the character and comics, proved by the number of times you've speedily changed or modified your arguement to new nitpicks...yet still miraculously not getting the same points which prove them wrong, you really don't know very much.

That's why that little talk on Angel Dust wasn't included in the film. Yes he did some bad work but I'm only discussing his better work, one of which (most fans would agree) was MWF. It was originally designed as a 4 issue movie idea but was upgraded to a 6 issue comic detailing Matt's early life. It applies to continuity and most fans would agree. Even if you don't want to count it you still have family friendly DD commiting family friendly homicide in his very first issue. Shall we discount that one too?

 

[Quentin Black]

Originally posted by Herr Logan
Aren't you happy now that you've found another label you can use as an insult, over and over again until you sound like Rain Man and you give people one more reason not to take you seriously?
Whoever said I thought using the word "art" made me sound superior or somehow proved a point or gave me more credibility? If you don't believe anything I say (which is obvious), then it doesn't raise my credibility any, and wasn't intended to. "Art" doesn't describe a damn thing, you know. It's a practically meaningless word so broad that it encompasses almost everything. I use it because it's a broad enough word to describe Zev's writing, since I already used "satire" and I was too tired to access my vocabulary any further. I'm not using it in a pretentious way. I'm not trying to fool anyone into thinking anything about myself, Zev, the movies we're discussing, or anything else. I explained my actions, since I've nothing to hide. Porn is art. Finger-painting is art. Grafiti is art. "Art" doesn't say anything at all about quality or appropriateness. It just is. When I say "artistic talent," I'm saying I appreciate people who are good at what they do. Zev is talented in satire and holding his own pretty well in a debate. You're very poor in argument. See why I compliment him and not you? I respect verbal ability. Grow up and accept that it's not just about you and it's not based on anything that wasn't a part of my personality before I ever came to these boards. Overall, Zev insults you less than you insult him, and he does it much more skillfully. It's only the novelty and creativity that makes it look like more quantity than the venom coming from you. Listen to you use the same small list of words over and over. "Pretender," "but that's okay because...," "double standards" and now "sidekick" and "lapdog." I sure as hell hope you have a lapdog of your own who's impressed by your clumsy and unimaginative hostility. There's nothing truly at stake here. If someone insulted me and did a good job of it, I'd appreciate that. Zev has gone easy on you, and so have I. Granted, I'm sure you're showing restraint as well, but you're the one who made all this personal (at least with me) and you're the one who can't hold up his end of a debate. If this can be called a debate. You're predictable and you've got very little to say that holds meaning. I see your words as much more childish than Zev's, even though they reveal a moderately high level of verbal ability. It's like watching the Scorpion and Spider-Man in battle. Scorpion isn't dumb, but he's not exactly PhD material either. He spouts the same threats and insults over and over again, using heavy-handed attacks while Spider-Man performs acrobatics around him, spouting a variety of humorous retorts and makes Scorpy look like a fool. You see why I keep coming back here? If you saw Spider-Man and the Scorpion fighting, whom would you root for? Wait, don't tell me... Ben Affleck in a ersatz Daredevil costume.

If the label fits...why change it?

"I'm cheering on artistic talent and intelligence". Pretentious git or just a guy who wants to make something out of nothing? Your choice. It is only those two types of people who would describe porn or fingerpainting as 'art'. It's like saying my posts are a work of literature or my talent for raising my eyebrows in rythm is an artform. Calling lowbrow humour satire or art is quite insulting to those who are actually semi-decent at it. Don't try to back track now because you just look even more desperate, just remember next time to chose your words better lol.

LOL, that's one of the funniest things I've heard. You're defending Zev on the basis that he is original enough to come up with more different puerile insults (not very original though) than I am. Wow you are a star for making me laugh. We'll I've always said if it ain't broke don't fix it. Normally I don't lower myself, especially not down to Zev's level but just for you Herr, this one time...

Wow, the oh so intelligent Herr even managed to make a comic analogy. You just make me feel so inadequate with your obviously superior comic book analogies, obviously the material of someone who is a connoisseur of 'les' art. I'm just bedazzled by the acrobatic deftness of your/Zev's lexical field and way with word...it's just so great it absolutely, positively dances metaphorical, metaphysical, theological circles around me.

You seem to forget your point of arguement hasn't changed ever since you became Zev's Blair. Unlike Zev I just don't see it fit to dress my points or insults up in different guises if it isn't needed.

Wow, you really crack me up when you try the whole holier than thou gig. You're funnier than Zev, albeit untintentionally. At least you try to make yourself seem intelligent. If you tried paying attention or knew anything about the comic...or just basic general knoweledge then you could probably see that I hold up my end quite well but since you seem to think CSI is a real depiction of a crime lab, that is a pretty tenuous idea.

 

[Herr Logan]

Zev, what was that you said about fops with rotten teeth?

 

[Herr Logan]

Quentin:
You make childish insults and then drive them into the ground. You contradict your own arguments and use every possible improbable explanation for why the unforgivable flaws in "Daredevil" are forgivable. You use pretentious language in an attempt to make my points seem pretentious. You proved you don't know what "art" or "literature" means. You don't do your own research about crime labs and criminal justice policies and procedures, but since you found a friend to give you some information, you see fit to argue with me about something you don't really know at all. You're in high school, boy. Try taking a few classes in criminology and criminal justice before you shoot your mouth off. Of course, even then, your point would still be invalid and badly presented. You don't know the difference between what's ideally available and what's normally available. You've taken to childishly labeling me a servile lackey because I choose to give encouragement to those I think earned it. Even those who've argued against me when other people people support and defend my arguments and posts (and there have been many such situations, although I don't expect you to put in the effort to find out for yourself) weren't vindictive enough to make puerile attacks such as that on those people. You're a real piece of work. You have nothing to back up your arguments, just your say-so. Vehemence equals authority, right? Can it be any more obvious why you're acting this way? You may say some incredibly dumb things, but I know you're smart enough to know exactly what we all know. Widdle Quentin's envious and bitter. Try saying something smart and/or entertaining. I show appreciation where it's deserved. I conceded to you the few times you made valid points. Why wouldn't I? I'm more interested in the truth (or entertainment, but since you've never provided that where I've looked...) than simply "us vs. them." Try telling the truth for once. I'm Blair to Zev's Bush? Is someone a little bit bitter that his weak-kneed little punk-ass of a leader isn't smart or strong enough to act independently of my weak-minded, sock puppet, facist, wannabe old-money, war-mongering compensating coward of a leader? I've always been my own person. I'm no one's lackey. I'm too strong-willed (read: stubborn and bull-headed) to even be much of a lackey for my live-in fiance (and I've actually tried to err in that direction, since she deserves it). Zev ain't like Bush. I don't know how he is at public speaking, but Zev's verbal skills are highly superior. At least I'm assuming that's what his IQ test would report, since that's what mine said and this was after my verbal skills had begun to atrophe. You seem to have superior verbal skills as well, ideally, but you can't argue worth a damn, either due to lack of logic capacity and/or maturity (certainly the latter), and your next post will prove that. I know exactly what you'll say. There's a short list to choose from, you know. Hostility and personal insults don't make up for your obvious lack of reasoning skills, regard for the truth, and social skills. That's right, kid, you're getting told by me that your social skills suck. If you actually knew a God damn thing about me or about the world, you'd know to hide under the bed and cry. Or you can lash out at me, put on a haughty air and make hypocritical statements, peppering them with puerile insults that make it painfully apparent how hard you're reaching.

I had time to kill. That's why all the words. Let me sum it up very briefly for you, since I know you didn't read the above carefully: You argued. You failed. You insulted. You lost.

Now let's hear a recap of everything you've been spewing at me up 'til now with slight variations, and the next item on your list of irrelevant and erroneous things to say. Maybe I should take up zoobiology instead of social sciences. Predicting the behavior of non-human animals might prove a damn sight more interesting and challenging than automatically knowing exactly what kind of thing people like you will say next.

 

[Quentin Black]

Lol, you are hilarious. Pot, kettle, black. You've repeated your previous post with even more frustration.

Post something more substantial than nitpicks or incorrect criticisms and then we'll be going somewhere. You guys have done it once or twice before and I reacted accordingly. Oh no wait...instead you're going to post and whine about how I won't just accept that you're right and how I don't have anything to say because you can't think of anything other points.

Wow, you did a whole study course on criminology and you still think that all crimes can be solved in days to the degree of accuracy as CSI in reality. You got ripped off! I might still be at high school yet what amazes me is that I still know more about it than you do. (let me give you a hint, it shows an ideal world in the same way Jurassic Park shows an ideal world of cloning technology) Maybe when I'm older I'll take a few classes in badly done humour or finger painting and call myself an artist.

Lol, you do spout the funniest things when you're angry. Yes I'm care sooo much about my leader that I'm jealous of Bush. Well, I wouldn't use the Bush Blair analogy if I didn't know that Blair was a weak willed leader or liked him. That's kind of the point. A semi-intelligent yet highly weak person follows around an idiot like a lapdog....hmmm, why does that seem so familiar?

Wow, you even managed to subconsciously squeeze in a little random something to affirm your intelligence. Wow, a IQ test told you have good verbal skills...wait, don't forget, good verbal skills after your peak. Well gosh darn it, that just confirms your superiority LOL.

The hostility and juvenile insults come from both sides, even more so for some posters with three letter names. Oh yes, any insults from your master or you count as "entertainment". Good way to try to make yourself sound less hypocritical (I admit, the ones from you are just so unintentionally funny they are entertaining).

Zev is smarter than I've given him credit for. For instance with a underling like you Zev doesn't even have to do the arguing.

Hey, guess what? I am a vindictive immature bastard to anyone who deserves it. I'm a teenager. What's your excuse? At least I have a clue, backed up with numerous examples from the comics and general knowledge. Go back and actually read the posts this time. The contradictions, nitpicks and incorrect information comes from your side. (here are just a few recent ones to recap...you didn't realise that they do explain the physical side effects in the film, you incorrectly complain that the foresics side is off but manage to ignore every film that has involved an investigation which do the same, Zev incorrectly complains about it not being faithful or costume changes when all the other comic movies do the same thing but to a greater degree...there's more if you want)

I agree, although I do have many people I'm amiacble with on the net (shock, horror, including some I've debated with before) I do need to improve my social skills when talking to nobodies on the other side of the world because having internet friends who are stupid is sooo important. Or maybe, just maybe, I can make friends with people I actually like and respect since I'm frankly not that desperate.

Geez, I even have to correct your insults. Here's a slightly more accurate summary. I debated. You/zev didn't have a clue. We insulted each other. You/zev nitpicked and insulted. I played along. You whine.

Your post is a carbon copy of all your others and you don't even realise it. You know what it deserves? It deserves is a copy and paste...

Originally posted by Quentin Black
If the label fits...why change it?

"I'm cheering on artistic talent and intelligence". Pretentious git or just a guy who wants to make something out of nothing? Your choice. It is only those two types of people who would describe porn or fingerpainting as 'art'. It's like saying my posts are a work of literature or my talent for raising my eyebrows in rythm is an artform. Calling lowbrow humour satire or art is quite insulting to those who are actually semi-decent at it. Don't try to back track now because you just look even more desperate, just remember next time to chose your words better lol.

LOL, that's one of the funniest things I've heard. You're defending Zev on the basis that he is original enough to come up with more different puerile insults (not very original though) than I am. Wow you are a star for making me laugh. We'll I've always said if it ain't broke don't fix it. Normally I don't lower myself, especially not down to Zev's level but just for you Herr, this one time...

Wow, the oh so intelligent Herr even managed to make a comic analogy. You just make me feel so inadequate with your obviously superior comic book analogies, obviously the material of someone who is a connoisseur of 'les' art. I'm just bedazzled by the acrobatic deftness of your/Zev's lexical field and way with word...it's just so great it absolutely, positively dances metaphorical, metaphysical, theological circles around me.

You seem to forget your point of arguement hasn't changed ever since you became Zev's Blair. Unlike Zev I just don't see it fit to dress my points or insults up in different guises if it isn't needed.

Wow, you really crack me up when you try the whole holier than thou gig. You're funnier than Zev, albeit untintentionally. At least you try to make yourself seem intelligent. If you tried paying attention or knew anything about the comic...or just basic general knoweledge then you could probably see that I hold up my end quite well but since you seem to think CSI is a real depiction of a crime lab, that is a pretty tenuous idea.

The truth is, you're a guy who is getting frustrated and upset at another guy over the net, a thousand miles away. Sooo smart

PS wherever you take your zoology course, don't take it at the same place you took your criminology course.

 

[Herr Logan]

Like a rat in a maze. You give me hope that I could make some money in casual gambling. Thanks for dancing to the tune, Quentin. Usually when people don't understand what I'm saying, I get frustrated. When they do it this frequently, however, it proves it's a flaw in their comprehension, not my ability to communicate. Thanks for confirming that for me.


Master? Master, where are you!!? I can't decide which socks to where!!

Zev, me want more "immature, puerile humor." I hear tell you use that to compensate for not being able to argue, and since today I can't find anyone here who can argue worth a damn or someone who is funny, you need to save the day. God, I'm so bored, and Quentin isn't helping. 5 more minutes!

 

[Zev]

Herr, don't let him get to you. Remember what back-issues of Wolverine taught us. If you lose control, even if you go on to win the fight, you still lost. And I had hoped we had a more Master-Torgo relationship. 'i tAKe caRE Of tHe THreAd wHiLe THe mAsTEr iS AwAy'...

The Facer.net Exclusive! Upcoming features on the 'Jesus Cut' of Mark Steven Johnson's Daredevil (because it's definitely not Stan Lee's or Frank Miller's or Brian Michael Bendis'. Hell, it's not even Kevin Smith's)!

A very compelling reason will be given for Matt Murdock not knowing 'no means no', Elektra attacking a blind man, and Matt compromising his secret identity by fighting back bigtime. It will be... look, over there!

Actually, loud farting noises will be dubbed in over every movement. I'm sorry, Quentin. Apparently that's puerile and immature. Instead, the entire segment will be replaced with Foggy Nelson being interviewed by Space Ghost, who shares what he'd like to do to the Daredevil movie.

Instead of a sappy Evanescence song playing during Elektra's training scene, Survivor's 'Eye of the Tiger' plays.

Ever time Michael Clark Duncan tries to do something other then stand around and look menacing, camera will cut to Terence Stamp saying "Kneel before Zod!"

After Elektra is killed but before Bullseye attacks, Daredevil is healed when John Madden pops up and gives him BOOM! Tuff-Actin' Tanactin!

The editor will be given his full pay, allowing the bar room brawl to finally be given coherent editting.

We will see the comics-accurate spandex costume on Daredevil and Elektra's red silk leotard. Then we will see the Queer Eye guys give them a makeover. Ben Affleck will enjoy it a bit too much. So much, in fact, that he will show them his 'O' face.

In the words of Typhoid Mary, BURN! And in the words of Max Powers, ZING!

 

[Herr Logan]

You're right, of course. I must remain at peace. It's bad enough what happened to that kid who made fun of my T-shirt the other day (thank God the cops never visit this neighborhood no matter how many people call, and that folks at college donate blood), but if I give in to provocation in this forum, I will stray far from the path of the righteous.

What's a "Jesus Cut"?

 

[Quentin Black]

...aaaand they've run out of decent points again....

 

[Zev]

A Jesus Cut is the magical Director's Cut of Daredevil, which will turn water into wine and ^_^^_^^_^^_^ (sorry, Quentin, '^_^^_^^_^^_^e') into cavier. Coolio will wow the world with his acting skills, Elektra will actually look Greek, and the line "Lets bring the noise. Lets bring the pain." won't sound like ******ed monkeys wrote it.

No, Quentin, just gotten tired of repeating the same points over and over again, as you seem content to do. You see, I have other things to do, like put retainers in. Let me explain, (Ahhh! We've got TANGENT SIGN!) as you're obviously not familar with the concept. Retainers are small plastic devices that you fit over your teeth. You wear them for a certain period of time after your braces (look it up) are removed to make sure that your teeth stay in position. Usually you take them out to eat and brush your teeth (I'll explain that one later). But once more for the Englishman with a short attention span.

Why does Daredevil kill people? This is like Superman giving uranium to North Korea or Captain America hanging out in a strip club.

Why the forced-meet cute between Matt and Elektra? It feels like it was copied and pasted from another script and they added some blind jokes. Especially since I don't know anyone who would start a fight with a blind man. If a girl thought I was blind and started kicking me, I don't care how pretty she is, ^_^^_^^_^^_^^_^ is gettin' kicked to the curb.

Why is Daredevil completely helpless while Elektra and Bullseye have their exhibition (sorry, fight) but the MOMENT Elektra is dead, he's able to run away. Watch an old Jackie Chan movie. There's usually a situation where a character is injured, but still tries to help his friend against the villain, who usually has a flowing white beard and a haughty laugh. Sure, he gets his ass handed to him in under thirty seconds every time, but he TRIES, damn it.

How is Bullseye able to find Elektra and Daredevil? I could understand this if he was looking for Daredevil, but his stated target is Elektra. He's also stated he considers Daredevil a 'target of opportunity', as it were. Why is he looking for a wealthy socialite on the rooftops of Hell's Kitchen? Or does he somehow know that Elektra blames Daredevil for her father's death and has taken it upon herself to avenge him? If so, how?

How did the word get out on Kingpin? Last we heard, everyone but Urich believed that ECLF was the Kingpin.

How come Daredevil is able to confront Kingpin even though minutes earlier he was unable to help the love of his life IN THE SLIGHTEST and only won against Bullseye by the skin of his teeth?

Why does Daredevil ignore a cry for help to spend time with Elektra?

Why is Matt prosecuting a case?

What kind of assassin kills people indiscriminately and has a highly-memorable feature (which we only see him cover once, as I recall. Did he have it on in the plane?)? I mean, they get rid of the costume (good decision, I think), then they give him a scar that is a thousand times more memorable. Which would you notice? Some guy named Benjamin Poindexter who changes into a costume to kill people or some guy with crosshairs carved into his forehead?

Why do we get a scene of Elektra training? Just to sell a thematically-inappropriate song on the soundtrack?

Why does Daredevil wear a S&M-wannabe leather outfit?

Why does Daredevil leave outlines in lighter fluid (or whatever) at his crime scenes? Just in case someone happens to throw a cigarette?

How does Matt teach himself kung-fu?

Why does Elektra wear cliched anti-hero black leather? I feel like this has been done to her character.

Only substitute character/costume with video game and you're good to go.

What did that guy who Daredevil used as a human shield do to deserve getting lead breast implants?

How did Matt pay for the 'Dare-Cave'?

Why? Why? Why is Kingpin responsible for Matt's father's death? It's such a naked rip-off of Batman it's not even funny. And don't give me ^_^^_^^_^^_^ about making it personal, if you control all the crime in New York City and you ordered the woman your enemy loves killed for no reason (following an M.O. that you should have put to rest when you framed ECLF, but moving on...) it's goddamn personal already. It adds so little to the story, I felt as if he was going to go on: "And your mother? Raped her. Your grandpa? I betrayed him to the Nazis in World War 2. Your grandmother? I had her commited to a substandard retirement home! Your prom date? I got her pregnant, then refused to pay child support!"

Why does Matt leave his mask to be tested by forensics experts when it would only take him a few seconds to pick it up? And don't give me ^_^^_^^_^^_^ about 'mah gawd, CSI, CSI, so inaccurate, real police, ah, real police aren't that well-equiped or professional'. I think a man running around in a red devil costume waging a one-man war on crime and beating down the Kingpin of Crime would be pretty high-profile.

Why doesn't Elektra turn around to see Bullseye claiming responsibility for her father's murder?

Why doesn't Matt just tell her the situation in civilian? I mean, he's never been modest about showing off his powers before. Why wait until she's seeing red (pun intended) to tell her the truth?

Where does Daredevil get the second billy club to swing away from Elektra? When he looked into his holster, it was empty and he wasn't HOLDING the mythical 'second half' of it...

How does Bullseye grab Daredevil's billy club(s)? There's a difference between a magician's card tricks and managing to grab something from someone's belt while they're kicking you in the face.

Why isn't a parallel shown between ECLF's death and the rapist? You know, show that him killing a 'guilty' man is believable to the public after they heard about the rapist murder.

Why does Daredevil track his prey to a crowded bar full of thugs, possibly the LEAST opportune place to ambush him? You know, he probably wouldn't have to pop all those painkillers if he just used some common sense. I feel like Scott Evil.

DAREDEVIL: So, having found out that he likes to frequent a bar filled with several thugs ready to defend him to the death, I will swing in and attack the rapist...

SCOTT: You know, I've got a gun. We could just wait on his doorstep and shoot him. It'll be fun.

DAREDEVIL: Scott, you just don't get it, do you? If we did that, a bunch of Flaming Moes couldn't get knocked over and we wouldn't have a supposedly 'kewl' visual of me stepping over them.

I'm sorry if I can't think of more, but (much as MSJ tries) there can only be so much badness in two hours. I'll be frank. I could ignore some things. The costume, MCD's thuggish behavior when he's supposed to be... well, the Kingpin. But the more I think of it, the more I see new flaws pop up. It's like an onion. Each layer makes your eyes water more.

And say what you want about Bush, we only have to put up with him for four or possibly eight years. You have to put up with your antiquated royalty for life. This is the world's smallest violin playing just for Huge Teeth, err, Prince Charles, the vestigal tail of world government.

Funny that you would dispute the use of pictures to augment the written word in a forum about COMIC BOOKS.

 

[Quentin Black]

Wow, you really don't know how to read. Everyone of those nitpicks, criticism based on incorrect information and criticism that apply much more to other comic films have all been answered already in our much too extended debate. (is it no wonder I have to repeat myself? )

It is people like you who make Americans seem so ignorant in global matters and general knowledge. Have you even had an education? It's quite well known the the monarchy are a figure head and tradition and have no say in how our country gets run or any effect on our government. Oh well, nevermind. I don't expect anything other than ignorance from people like you.

Well, congratulations you have worn me down with sheer experience of idiocy. Even when you've run out of decent points you come back out of your hole with the exact same carbon copies of questions I've already put down. Sheer tactical brilliance.

 

[Herr Logan]

Originally posted by Zev
A Jesus Cut is the magical Director's Cut of Daredevil, which will turn water into wine and ^_^^_^^_^^_^ (sorry, Quentin, '^_^^_^^_^^_^e') into cavier. Coolio will wow the world with his acting skills, Elektra will actually look Greek, and the line "Lets bring the noise. Lets bring the pain." won't sound like ******ed monkeys wrote it.

Ah yes. The messiah for which we're still waiting. All that praying is sure to pay off.

How did the word get out on Kingpin? Last we heard, everyone but Urich believed that ECLF was the Kingpin.

Hopefully the Jesus Cut will clear this up. I read the novel, and this is actually explained. So good to have a full mediocre plot to read as opposed to an incomplete mediocre film release. There are supposed to be events that lead to Fisk's implication.

Why does Daredevil ignore a cry for help to spend time with Elektra?

In the novel, Daredevil is actually half-way dedicated to his cause, so he doesn't stick around to get some tail. He acts like a hero and goes to work. I've heard tell that the Jesus Cut mirrors this, and the sex scene was just thrown in as a substitute for the violence they cut for the theatrical release. Heard tell that in the Jesus Cut, that scene isn't even there.

Why is Matt prosecuting a case?

Seems this is a civil trial. That disgusts me to no end, but I can't say one way or another how realistic it is. I tend to believe in most miscarriages of justice, since I've read horror stories that make one wonder if the justice system is real or just a sick story concocted by Steven King.

Why does Daredevil wear a S&M-wannabe leather outfit?

Mark Steven Johnson is, among other things, a motorcycle buff (thus, Daredevil and Bullseye playing chicken, and MSJ helming "Ghost Rider"). The clothes themselves aren't S&M, but clearly Daredevil is. Unfortunately, that's part of being a crimefighter. I actually initially thought that it was a good idea, but then the movie hit theaters and the anticipation wore off. Not to mention I did more research on Daredevil (reading entire TPBs in the book store without paying, bwahahahaha!) and concluded that while everyone could use a little more protection in that neighborhood, Daredevil does not need any form of bodily protection to do what he does. He could be naked and he'd still clear out the entire bar. He may get hurt, but anyone able to tag him would likely cut or shoot through leather. I believe in being careful, so if it were me, I'd use kevlar-reinforced fabric where it didn't impede movement, but Daredevil is the Man Without Fear, and his safety isn't really an issue. He's good enough, he's fearless, he's more of an idiot than Spider-Man when it comes to leaping into danger (if Spider-Man constantly calls himself nuts and stupid for being in his line of work, then Daredevil is crazier or dumber, proportionate to his lesser power level). Spandex would do.

What did that guy who Daredevil used as a human shield do to deserve getting lead breast implants?

Well he, uh... he kinda attacked him... you know. Spider-Man's the kind of guy who'd consider it murder to hide behind a deadly criminal rather than die himself, but while Daredevil is almost that naive and morally unhinged, he's enough of a realist to see that if he died, no more saving people.

Why does Daredevil track his prey to a crowded bar full of thugs, possibly the LEAST opportune place to ambush him? You know, he probably wouldn't have to pop all those painkillers if he just used some common sense.

This should have been appropriate, if it were done with a smidgen of competence. Josie's Bar is a mainstay of Daredevil comics. He often goes there to beat info out of thugs. You'd know that if you weren't a pretender . But seriously, this was a bad plot device because they went the realistic route, not giving Daredevil the psychological edge he has in the comics that allows him to waltz right in and go straight to the man he wants to talk to/apprehend. Often there's a fight in that bar, but Daredevil has more of an edge and things work a little differently. Screw realism. The comics make for better stories. And like I said before, as Spider-Man and even DD himself has stated frequently, if Daredevil had any common sense, he wouldn't be in that line of work.
All of these points are good. The ones for which I have no answer or comment all have the same explanation: They are hating ze movies, ze source material, and ze fans. Okay, MSJ doesn't hate ze comics, but he either doesn't know jack $hit about making a movie adaptation and/or the studio overlords were watering down his "vision." We don't need a poll to determine which one was a bigger factor.
If I have poked any holes in your list, "master," it's just my overriding desire for the truth to be told. Good questions, good argument.

 

[Zev]

Originally posted by Quentin Black
Wow, you really don't know how to read. Everyone of those nitpicks, criticism based on incorrect information and criticism that apply much more to other comic films have all been answered already in our much too extended debate. (is it no wonder I have to repeat myself? )

So if I give nitpicks, it's repeating myself, but if I don't, then I've run out of good points? My points haven't been adequately answered.

It is people like you who make Americans seem so ignorant in global matters and general knowledge. Have you even had an education? It's quite well known the the monarchy are a figure head and tradition and have no say in how our country gets run or any effect on our government. Oh well, nevermind. I don't expect anything other than ignorance from people like you.

Hence me calling the monarchy VESTIGAL. In other words, a leftover of the evolutionary process, no longer necessary to life but still lingering on out of sheer tenacity. Let me get this straight. You pay these people just because they were born into royalty?

Well, congratulations you have worn me down with sheer experience of idiocy. Even when you've run out of decent points you come back out of your hole with the exact same carbon copies of questions I've already put down. Sheer tactical brilliance. [/B]

You know, it's funny, but I'd consider fingerpainting more art then a painting of the Virgin Mary covered in elephant feces or a room with lights that go on and off. And I'd rather watch porn then go to a museum showing those pieces of modern 'art'.

 

[Quentin Black]

If you gave new decent points. Don't tell me you can't since you've done it before.

It's the equivilent of people born in to rich families in America who don't have jobs yet get and spend as much money as they want. You think paying an extra few pounds a year for a tradition is worse than having Bush run your country in to the ground? Good one.

I'm not a fan of modern art either, my friends who I do art with can testify to that. However neither is fingerpainting or porn or badly done humour.

 

[Quentin Black]

Wow, Herr is that your idea of intelligent insults. So great it deserves a copy and paste:

You just make me feel so inadequate with your obviously superior insults, obviously the material of someone who is a connoisseur of 'les' art. I'm just bedazzled by the acrobatic deftness of your/Zev's lexical field and way with word...it's just so great it absolutely, positively dances metaphorical, metaphysical, theological circles around me.

 

[Herr Logan]

Please do that some more, Quentin. Please smear more of your greatest hits in trifling drivel across the board. If I wanted to make you look pathetic and petty, you'd be doing my job for me now. Of course that leaves me bored, but I'll deal. I especially like the gratuitous use of "connoisseur " and "les", but I see all of your ridiculous over-exaggerations and gross [mis/re]interpretations as very effective towards that end.

 

[Quentin Black]

pot kettle black

 

[Herr Logan]

tic tac toe

 

[Quentin Black]

great retort

 

[Herr Logan]

Retort? I thought you were starting a new game or something. I didn't see anything that warranted a retort.

 

[The Hero]

WOW you people can realy beat a dead horse into a pulpy powder,which you then use to fertilize a small tree that you cut down and use to beat ANOTHER dead horse.