The Dark Knight Rises Worst, most annoying suggestions youve constantly heard

[kid dropper]

It's not just the "sexy killer clown girl" thing (though it's a huge plus to the male fans I'm sure), many female fans admit they love Harley because she's Joker's girlfriend and since they themselves love Joker to death, it's great to imagine how it would be like to be with him. So female fans = Harley. Romantic Joker and Harley fanfiction stories written by 12 year-old girls are proof enough of the phenomenon. They're completely mesmerized by Harley and her relationship with Joker very early on.

From the very beginning when I first saw TAS I thought she represented every young (and not so young, to be fair) girl crushing on the Joker. As I've said, lots of females have loved the character since their childhood and teenage years and she remains their avatar in the Bat verse. It's a fantasy. I didn't grow up with TAS but I can see why the couple would have such an effect on girls.

Of course there are also those who know nothing about the character past the first paragraph of her wiki page, they only know she's Joker's girl and his henchwoman and they like that fantasy. Cue many newbie female fans wanting Harley in B3 - because Heath Ledger's Joker is their latest crush. I see this all the time. They can't even spell the character's name right but they "loooove her". Some also say they love her "but want her to be completely different", explaining how Harley should be instead, proving even further the character's only used as a vessel for their self-inserts.

Sure, there are those who love Harley for other reasons besides her attachment to Joker (and she has enough qualities to like AND dislike) but I'd eat my left foot if the Joker himself wasn't a huge if not the main reason for all the Harley love, in any incarnation. He's the reason she exists in the first place and her best moments in TAS are when they're playing off each other.

*wonders if Harley would have as many new devotees if Heath Ledger wasn't good-looking* You gotta admit the number would be lower because there's fans and there's shallow fans but at least shallow fans don't stick around for long. They latch on to the next celebrity hottie.

What scares me is you may be right about that . I mean obviously Heath Ledger was a male specimen, but to be attracted to the greasy monster he was in this film is pretty sick. I remember being on the train back to l.a. from comic con last year , having a conversation with these two adorable teenage geek girls (who were actually really cute, looked and talked like broads who go to the mall and are grossed out by nerds, no animal ear hats or invader zim purses, straight off "the hills" ore something) , when the conversation got to the dark knight, they were all "omg heath ledger was so hot" , and i remeber thinking " yeh he was a real dreamboat in that one, wasnt he". worse than that i was befriended on myspace by this frightening woman in boston who writes and draws heath-joker erotica(,of awful quality to boot)once the novelty and shock wore off id deleted her. I mean its almost the equivalent of jerking off to charlize theron in "monster".

 

[Mr. Earle]

What scares me is you may be right about that . I mean obviously Heath Ledger was a male specimen, but to be attracted to the greasy monster he was in this film is pretty sick. I remember being on the train back to l.a. from comic con last year , having a conversation with these two adorable teenage geek girls (who were actually really cute, looked and talked like broads who go to the mall and are grossed out by nerds, no animal ear hats or invader zim purses, straight off "the hills" ore something) , when the conversation got to the dark knight, they were all "omg heath ledger was so hot" , and i remeber thinking " yeh he was a real dreamboat in that one, wasnt he". worse than that i was befriended on myspace by this frightening woman in boston who writes and draws heath-joker erotica(,of awful quality to boot)once the novelty and shock wore off id deleted her. I mean its almost the equivalent of jerking off to charlize theron in "monster".

Hahahahahahahaha! Priceless!!! Those girls are nuts!

He turns down Fast and Furious 2 and xXx 2 because he doesn't want to be the action star he was born to be and look what we got. Two terrible sequels and The Pacifier.

I liked the pacifier. Is something wrong with me?

 

[Mr. Earle]

edit

 

[Saint]

Harley Quinn, Harley Quinn, a thousand times, Harley Quinn. Listen, I like Quinn as much as anyone else, but what place does she have in this particular film series? She's a comedy character. She has no (or very little) dramatic purpose. To be useful here, she would have to be so different as to be unrecognizable. What's more, with the Joker very unlikely to appear, she would be absent of the relationship that defines her as a character.

 

[Boom]

-Bald Joker.
-Female Joker.

/End.

 

[BestGirl]

- Joker recast
- Anything revolving Harley Quinn
- Hush

I see the first two as pointless because I'm pleased with how TDK ended and don't need a re-match in B3, besides I don't think the TDK Joker would ever want or need a "sidekick" of any kind. In my eyes Harley belongs in the cartoons - hell, I don't think the comicverse is any better for having her included. She's in top form as a cartoon character but elsewhere I see little point in her.

And maybe it's just me but I prefer the idea of Nolanverse Joker being repulsive and off-putting to any woman, deranged or no, and that he'd never find anyone that would accept him for who he is, romantically, physically, spiritually, you name it. He's a monster. Tragically, the only "meaningful relationship" he'll ever have is with a man dressed up as a bat, his true other half, and they'll forever hate each other. IMO he shouldn't be a lovable person, not even to a single misguided soul. He's alone, like Batman said. Always. Batman's the only person that really "sees" Joker while everyone else is running in the other direction.

It's not just the "sexy killer clown girl" thing (though it's a huge plus to the male fans I'm sure), many female fans admit they love Harley because she's Joker's girlfriend and since they themselves love Joker to death, it's great to imagine how it would be like to be with him. So female fans = Harley. Romantic Joker and Harley fanfiction stories written by 12 year-old girls are proof enough of the phenomenon. They're completely mesmerized by Harley and her relationship with Joker very early on.

From the very beginning when I first saw TAS I thought she represented every young (and not so young, to be fair) girl crushing on the Joker. As I've said, lots of females have loved the character since their childhood and teenage years and she remains their avatar in the Bat verse. It's a fantasy. I didn't grow up with TAS but I can see why the couple would have such an effect on girls.

Of course there are also those who know nothing about the character past the first paragraph of her wiki page, they only know she's Joker's girl and his henchwoman and they like that fantasy. Cue many newbie female fans wanting Harley in B3 - because Heath Ledger's Joker is their latest crush. I see this all the time. They can't even spell the character's name right but they "loooove her". Some also say they love her "but want her to be completely different", explaining how Harley should be instead, proving even further the character's only used as a vessel for their self-inserts.

Sure, there are those who love Harley for other reasons besides her attachment to Joker (and she has enough qualities to like AND dislike) but I'd eat my left foot if the Joker himself wasn't a huge if not the main reason for all the Harley love, in any incarnation. He's the reason she exists in the first place and her best moments in TAS are when they're playing off each other.

*wonders if Harley would have as many new devotees if Heath Ledger wasn't good-looking* You gotta admit the number would be lower because there's fans and there's shallow fans but at least shallow fans don't stick around for long. They latch on to the next celebrity hottie.

QFT, all this. I can't believe so many fangirls want Harley in the next movie. Don't they realize that Heath's Joker won't be in it?

What scares me is you may be right about that . I mean obviously Heath Ledger was a male specimen, but to be attracted to the greasy monster he was in this film is pretty sick. I remember being on the train back to l.a. from comic con last year , having a conversation with these two adorable teenage geek girls (who were actually really cute, looked and talked like broads who go to the mall and are grossed out by nerds, no animal ear hats or invader zim purses, straight off "the hills" ore something) , when the conversation got to the dark knight, they were all "omg heath ledger was so hot" , and i remeber thinking " yeh he was a real dreamboat in that one, wasnt he". worse than that i was befriended on myspace by this frightening woman in boston who writes and draws heath-joker erotica(,of awful quality to boot)once the novelty and shock wore off id deleted her. I mean its almost the equivalent of jerking off to charlize theron in "monster".

For whatever reason, just about any movie villain picks up a sizable female following, regardless of his appearance. I suspect the attraction is based more on charisma than anything. The fact that it's Ledger under the makeup probably doesn't hurt.

 

[kid dropper]

- Catwoman
- Side-kick
- Depp as the Ridler
- most of the suggestions, actually.

I'm sorry, Catwoman is essential, i wish all the girls throwing their support behind harley would back her instead(much better role model as opposed to a chronically abused co-dependent, and we dont have to make her an ex-hooker, so dont even bring that up)

1. a new female love interest is needed(im not really big on romance either, its not necessary in a story like this, but im sure the studio will disagree). Preferably it should be one standing in stark contrast to legal eagle Rachel Dawes.

2. They are going to need one of the big name villains that the mainstream public is aware of to even begin matching or approaching Dark Knight's buzz. in the public eye Catwoman is right up there with Joker , Penguin and Ridler, and in spite of Dark Knight and batman Forever still far more well known to your average Joe than Two Face.

3. She could make for so many great stories, being a criminal whos mostly non lethal and does vigilante work as well. lots of ethical conflict for bats.

 

[CJ]

Mr Reese secretly being the Riddler.

UGH.

 

[CJ]

Re: kid dropper

I will not be seeing the next Batman if Catwoman is involved.

 

[CJ]

Re: kid dropper

I will not be seeing the next Batman if Catwoman is involved.

 

[kid dropper]

Re: kid dropper

I will not be seeing the next Batman if Catwoman is involved.

I call that bold talk , cj, mighty bold. care to expand on that?

 

[WeaponXProject]

And you think relegating him to a cameo would be a good idea? You're turning one of the most iconic villains in cinema history won of the most beloved comic book villains into a minor character.

That suggestion should be in this thread.

Besides, what better way to show the full extent of the effect he has on Gotham than to show that he's still running the show even after he's died?

And you are killing him off because you don't want him recast or back? How would you even kill him?!?!

I've talked to many of my comic book friends and a few on here and no one. Not one likes your suggestion so I don't know why I'm arguing with you on this.

Several comic series had flashes of Joker in prison. Even news reels just talking about him and newspaper clips that Bruce Wayne and Alfred would discuss while he was in Arkham. You don't have to show him and you don't have hear him. They did this with Falconi and that was no problem. I enjoyed the reference of Falconi in prison and who was in charge of the mob. That's not making him a minor character at all. That's paying respect to a character that shouldn't be knocked off in jail. Not every villain needs to die in every Batman movie...hence Scarecrow and Catwoman in BR. If Joker didn't die at the end of TDK then he shouldn't be extremely effed over just because an actor dies. I'm not suggesting a recast, I'm just saying it isn't necessary to kill him.


In no disrespect, please tell me how you would have him killed and why its necessary for him to die.

 

[General_Obol]

And you are killing him off because you don't want him recast or back? How would you even kill him?!?!

I've talked to many of my comic book friends and a few on here and no one. Not one likes your suggestion so I don't know why I'm arguing with you on this.

Several comic series had flashes of Joker in prison. Even news reels just talking about him and newspaper clips that Bruce Wayne and Alfred would discuss while he was in Arkham. You don't have to show him and you don't have hear him. They did this with Falconi and that was no problem. I enjoyed the reference of Falconi in prison and who was in charge of the mob. That's not making him a minor character at all. That's paying respect to a character that shouldn't be knocked off in jail. Not every villain needs to die in every Batman movie...hence Scarecrow and Catwoman in BR. If Joker didn't die at the end of TDK then he shouldn't be extremely effed over just because an actor dies. I'm not suggesting a recast, I'm just saying it isn't necessary to kill him.


In no disrespect, please tell me how you would have him killed and why its necessary for him to die.

Not everyone wants him to be recast.

Here's how he dies. He's arrested at the end of TDK, as we all know. So he's put on trial for his numerous crimes. If he somehow manages to avoid the death penalty, he more than likely going to be killed in prison because he both threatened to blow up a ferry filled with prisoners (so the entire inmate population is going to be after him) and he's a cop-killer (so the guards won't defend him). I'm not saying he dies simply because Heath Ledger died. Does this make any sense? I think it would be a shame just to have the Joker sitting away, rotting in some prison cell. He's too good for that.

I think it would be much better to try and incorporate Talia al Ghul than Catwoman or Harley Quinn.

 

[kid dropper]

Not everyone wants him to be recast.

Here's how he dies. He's arrested at the end of TDK, as we all know. So he's put on trial for his numerous crimes. If he somehow manages to avoid the death penalty, he more than likely going to be killed in prison because he both threatened to blow up a ferry filled with prisoners (so the entire inmate population is going to be after him) and he's a cop-killer (so the guards won't defend him). I'm not saying he dies simply because Heath Ledger died. Does this make any sense? I think it would be a shame just to have the Joker sitting away, rotting in some prison cell. He's too good for that.

I think it would be much better to try and incorporate Talia al Ghul than Catwoman or Harley Quinn.

dude hes in the asylum, they cant put a guy like that in prison with general population and try him as a sane person. thats the whole point of his constant escape from the death penalty and customary incarceration at arkham.

 

[General_Obol]

dude hes in the asylum, they cant put a guy like that in prison with general population and try him as a sane person. thats the whole point of his constant escape from the death penalty and customary incarceration at arkham.

As of TDK Arkham was shut down and the entirety of the Narrows quarantined due to the mass breakout Crane and the League of Shadows caused in Begins. So if the police can find time between effectively putting an end to the mafia and hunting down the Batman to clean up the Narrows, it's not going to be back.

In a related note, if Arkham is put back up, does anyone see anyone else from Batman's Rogues Gallery being put up as the head warden like Crane was in Begins?

 

[BestGirl]

If you kill the Joker, he can't be brought back by future directors working within this continuity. Quite frankly, if the Joker were killed off screen I think the GA would hate it and feel cheated.

 

[General_Obol]

If you kill the Joker, he can't be brought back by future directors working within this continuity. Quite frankly, if the Joker were killed off screen I think the GA would hate it and feel cheated.

We don't know anyone else is going to do anything with the franchise. I mean, Nolan's even iffy about doing a third film. I doubt he'll come back for a fourth.

Any way you put it, the audience is going to feel cheated. You can kill him off, but the problem is that is that the audience might feel cheated (apparently). You can not kill him but just leave him rotting away in a jail cell, but the problem with that is that the fans won't believe that any prison can hold him back. You can re-cast and reduce him to a cameo, but the audience would feel cheated that they didn't see more of him. You can re-cast him and make him the main villain, which is really the only way not to have the audience feel cheated, but then there are always going to be the comparisons to Ledger, the movie may become redundant (which Nolan feels may arise as a serious problem in the next film), and the fans might not like the new Joker.

Any way, someone's going to be pissed. It just comes down to what you think is the best idea. I personally think killing him off the best idea and I'm not going to force that on anyone like everyone else is forcing their idea on me. Get over it.

 

[HarleenQuinzel]

Im right behind you on no Harley. dont get me wrong, she's had her moments , her origin is grade, she is somewhat valuable for what she brings out in the joker, byut seriously she is one annoying and unecessary character when it comes down to it. The only way id be for harley is if she were silent, like in the azzarello joker gn. never understood the love for the character, except maybe from fangirls, (pardon the inherent chauvinism in the statement im about to make) who seem to latch on to whatever prominent edgy girl character. i mean its a sexy killer clown girl, and thats got a lot of marketing power with the hot topic /cat ears/nightmare before christmas fanatic set. But you dont see me rallying for John Stewart just because im black.

It's not hard to tell I'm a die hard Harley Q. fan but let's be honest people, there is absolutely no place for her character in these films. And I'm perfectly fine with that because the last thing I would want is for them to screw it up. Yeah and Angelina Jolie as Catwoman would rightfully piss me off. (random) And seeing that character AGAIN in the first place would do it as well.

 

[Quinzel]

Harley Quinn, Harley Quinn, a thousand times, Harley Quinn. Listen, I like Quinn as much as anyone else, but what place does she have in this particular film series? She's a comedy character. She has no (or very little) dramatic purpose. To be useful here, she would have to be so different as to be unrecognizable. What's more, with the Joker very unlikely to appear, she would be absent of the relationship that defines her as a character.

I agree. :P

As much as everyone know's i'd love to see it, i DEFINATLY don't wanna see it in an actual movie.

I like the lil fan things though.

 

[CJ]

I don't see what's wrong with bringing Harley into the next film. Catwoman's been done to death. It's time for someone who hasn't been used in the movies to appear.

And if you think about it, Harley is really the only logical villain to use (If Joker returns, that is) TDK ends with Joker being arrested by the Swat Team.

TDK2 should focus on Joker being put on trial for the crimes he comitted in TDK.
Everyone expects the death penalty, until Harleen Quinzel comes along, suggested he be moved to a mental health clinic. Somewhere along the line, Joker is sentenced to death, and Harley, not wanting the Joker to die, frees him. Wasn't she responsible for freeing the Joker in the comics?

TDK already showed that Joker can corrupt people, Joker could do the same to Harley.

The only thing I don't know is what the message of the film would be. What Joker's ultimate goal would be. His plan in TDK was to prove anyone can be corrupted (Harvey, the Ferries) What would his goal be in the sequel? Just random chaos with no purpose?
I can't see him trying to reveal 'the truth' about Harvey becuase who would believe the words of a psychotic killer?

I don't want Catwoman, because as i've stated before, she's nothing more than a sex-appeal character. She has no depth. She's just a random thief who dresses in skin-tight clothing and seduces Batman. BORING.

At least Harley's got the whole 'crazy/quirky' thing that Joker has. And she hasn't been done before.

I don't want Harley to be Joker's girlfriend though. More like a devoted servant with a crush on Joker. Nolan's Joker is far too evil to be interested in the opposite sex. The only thing he is interested in is Batman, murdering people, corrupting peopel, creating anarchy and causing chaos. I can't picture him with a girlfriend.

Also, Nolan said he found Harley Quinn to be an 'interesting character' in an interview shortly before Begins was released, so Nolan does like the character.

Staff of Begins/TDK said they want to explore villains that haven't been done before too.

Also, Joker himself in a comedy villain. So why would it be so bad to add Harley? She'd obviously be reinvented to fit in Nolan's world.

 

[Quinzel]

I don't see what's wrong with bringing Harley into the next film. Catwoman's been done to death. It's time for someone who hasn't been used in the movies to appear.

And if you think about it, Harley is really the only logical villain to use (If Joker returns, that is) TDK ends with Joker being arrested by the Swat Team.

TDK2 should focus on Joker being put on trial for the crimes he comitted in TDK.
Everyone expects the death penalty, until Harleen Quinzel comes along, suggested he be moved to a mental health clinic.

TDK already showed that Joker can corrupt people, Joker could do the same to Harley.

The only thing I don't know is what the message of the film would be. What Joker's ultimate goal would be. His plan in TDK was to prove anyone can be corrupted (Harvey, the Ferries) What would his goal be in the sequel? Just random chaos with no purpose?
I can't see him trying to reveal 'the truth' about Harvey becuase who would believe the words of a psychotic killer?

I don't want Catwoman, because as i've stated before, she's nothing more than a sex-appeal character. She has no depth. She's just a random thief who dresses in skin-tight clothing and seduces Batman. BORING.

At least Harley's got the whole 'crazy/quirky' thing that Joker has. And she hasn't been done before.

I don't want Harley to be Joker's girlfriend though. More like a devoted servant with a crush on Joker. Nolan's Joker is far too evil to be interested in the opposite sex. The only thing he is interested in is Batman, murdering people, corrupting peopel, creating anarchy and causing chaos. I can't picture him with a girlfriend.

I'm real picky.
Mainly since i've been obsessed fer years.
Sure i trust nolan and all, but i'm not sure i'd love ta see it.
Cause either it'd be the way i love it, and not right for the movie
or it'd be completly different and i'd be criticizin it the whole time.
I kinda agree about the catwoman thing though.

 

[kid dropper]

I don't see what's wrong with bringing Harley into the next film. Catwoman's been done to death. It's time for someone who hasn't been used in the movies to appear.

And if you think about it, Harley is really the only logical villain to use (If Joker returns, that is) TDK ends with Joker being arrested by the Swat Team.

TDK2 should focus on Joker being put on trial for the crimes he comitted in TDK.
Everyone expects the death penalty, until Harleen Quinzel comes along, suggested he be moved to a mental health clinic. Somewhere along the line, Joker is sentenced to death, and Harley, not wanting the Joker to die, frees him. Wasn't she responsible for freeing the Joker in the comics?

TDK already showed that Joker can corrupt people, Joker could do the same to Harley.

The only thing I don't know is what the message of the film would be. What Joker's ultimate goal would be. His plan in TDK was to prove anyone can be corrupted (Harvey, the Ferries) What would his goal be in the sequel? Just random chaos with no purpose?
I can't see him trying to reveal 'the truth' about Harvey becuase who would believe the words of a psychotic killer?

I don't want Catwoman, because as i've stated before, she's nothing more than a sex-appeal character. She has no depth. She's just a random thief who dresses in skin-tight clothing and seduces Batman. BORING.

At least Harley's got the whole 'crazy/quirky' thing that Joker has. And she hasn't been done before.

I don't want Harley to be Joker's girlfriend though. More like a devoted servant with a crush on Joker. Nolan's Joker is far too evil to be interested in the opposite sex. The only thing he is interested in is Batman, murdering people, corrupting peopel, creating anarchy and causing chaos. I can't picture him with a girlfriend.

Also, Nolan said he found Harley Quinn to be an 'interesting character' in an interview shortly before Begins was released, so Nolan does like the character.

Staff of Begins/TDK said they want to explore villains that haven't been done before too.

Also, Joker himself in a comedy villain. So why would it be so bad to add Harley? She'd obviously be reinvented to fit in Nolan's world.

so you want another villain dedicated to chaos wearing a clown getup (see previous film , under Joker) while being a once decent person corrupted by Joker's influence( also see previous film, under Two Face) . You got somethin against new ground? Catwoman's got many layers. she i s a thief, yes. but also a vigilante with her own personal code. she is a surrogate mother. she has been driven to commit murder at least once. That's complex. A consistently varying human psyche. not 'I used to be good , but now have flipped and am plain out crazy and evil" thats not all that complex, especially since its similar to themes already covered in this film series.

 

[General_Obol]

so you want another villain dedicated to chaos wearing a clown getup (see previous film , under Joker) while being a once decent person corrupted by Joker's influence( also see previous film, under Two Face) . You got somethin against new ground? Catwoman's got many layers. she i s a thief, yes. but also a vigilante with her own personal code. she is a surrogate mother. she has been driven to commit murder at least once. That's complex. A consistently varying human psyche. not 'I used to be good , but now have flipped and am plain out crazy and evil" thats not all that complex, especially since its similar to themes already covered in this film series.

Yeah Harley Quinn would just be a Joker with b00bs. A similar yet less extreme problem could occur with the Riddler.

I've never really been a Catwoman fan, but the more I think about it the better she would be in the next film. She brings something new to the table and is pretty much our quintessential anti-Rachel. The next film is more than likely going to include Bruce coping with her death as a theme.

 

[Minus Shock]

I liked the pacifier. Is something wrong with me?

No, but it just isn't Vin's genre. Similar to The Game Plan for Dwayne Johnson. Granted Game Plan makes Pacifier look like a work of art, I just don't think it's the right genre for them and I think they are kidding themselves if they think otherwise. What is so wrong with being an action star? There aren't any true action stars anymore. Everyone is this "well rounded actor" that has to do Shakespeare after doing Scorcher VI: Who left the fridge open.

 

[Mister H.]

We don't know anyone else is going to do anything with the franchise. I mean, Nolan's even iffy about doing a third film. I doubt he'll come back for a fourth.

Any way you put it, the audience is going to feel cheated. You can kill him off, but the problem is that is that the audience might feel cheated (apparently). You can not kill him but just leave him rotting away in a jail cell, but the problem with that is that the fans won't believe that any prison can hold him back. You can re-cast and reduce him to a cameo, but the audience would feel cheated that they didn't see more of him. You can re-cast him and make him the main villain, which is really the only way not to have the audience feel cheated, but then there are always going to be the comparisons to Ledger, the movie may become redundant (which Nolan feels may arise as a serious problem in the next film), and the fans might not like the new Joker.

Any way, someone's going to be pissed. It just comes down to what you think is the best idea. I personally think killing him off the best idea and I'm not going to force that on anyone like everyone else is forcing their idea on me. Get over it.

Why are you in support of killing off the Joker? There's no reason for it. The Joker was clearly meant to be involved in the next film, but we all know that's unlikely. We also know that he is incarcerated somewhere, and if he isn't going to be a part of the story, then that's all we need to know. No reason to kill him.