WoW=overhyped

[LobokDaikon]

you know I dont understan how Ever Quest is the best online game when I actually saved up all my lunch money for that ***** and subcribed for 6 months and played it, and the next 2 hours i got my money back because the ***** suck ass. if u told me that in my face that Ever Quest was the best game, I would of slaped ur ass to the ground and pissed on your face you damn *****less noob!!

What curse word is that, anyway?

 

[The Leaguer]

It isn't one. He just hit the asterisk a few times, and then got right back to mispelling every other word.

 

[SouLeSS]

so for the game to be any good, I have to play it with it sucking for a month? uh, no thanks...and I actually really like the cartoony design, it's just like Warcraft 3, my favorite RTS of all time

If you play right, and are not a complete idiot to MMOs, it takes less than a week to get to lvl 20.

In fact, I started a Mage yesterday at 12pm EST. He's lvl 26 right now, and it's 2am EST the next day. He has just under 1day logged into him.

The more you play the game though, the more the first 20 levels suck. I personally have many multiple lvl 60's, and I make a ton selling items/accounts/gold on various sites or to various sites to sell to others. So much, that I can net at least 1grand a week playing this game.

Also note, that the game doesn't really suck sub 20, it's more or less a borefest for people like me who have done the same quests 300 times and have grinded on the same mobs for 1000+ hours.

Matter of fact, my main character is a lvl 60 Dwarf Warrior. He has 458 days on his /played. And for those who don't know what "/played" means, it has to do with how many hours the character has been actually logged onto the game.

 

[Joker]

If you play right, and are not a complete idiot to MMOs, it takes less than a week to get to lvl 20.

In fact, I started a Mage yesterday at 12pm EST. He's lvl 26 right now, and it's 2am EST the next day. He has just under 1day logged into him.

The more you play the game though, the more the first 20 levels suck. I personally have many multiple lvl 60's, and I make a ton selling items/accounts/gold on various sites or to various sites to sell to others. So much, that I can net at least 1grand a week playing this game.

Also note, that the game doesn't really suck sub 20, it's more or less a borefest for people like me who have done the same quests 300 times and have grinded on the same mobs for 1000+ hours.

Matter of fact, my main character is a lvl 60 Dwarf Warrior. He has 458 days on his /played. And for those who don't know what "/played" means, it has to do with how many hours the character has been actually logged onto the game.

yeah, some of us dont have time to play 24/7 cause we work full time every day and have actual things to do on our days off...so it would probably take me more than a week to get to level 20 because I wasnt "playing right"...*****e...

 

[iceberg325]

Alot of people dont have that amount of time to play. Im a level 55 nightelf druid. I cant seem to get to 60 because I cant play for 10hrs straight like I did last summer. Thats the good thing about the game. There is no rush, you can play to your speed. Do whatever you want, and take as long as you want to do it. I couldnt see myself get more than one character to level 60. Its too time consuming!!!! The good thing about WoW is, its probably one of the easiest MMOs to level in. You get Xp for everything. Plus if you havent played the game in a day or 2, you xp meter goes up 200% faster. Most MMOs are tedious.

 

[Drakon]

The art design is too cartoony and colorful. It looks like scenes from Walt Disney's Alice In Wonderland.
Won't be playing it even for free.
My friend did and said it was utter crap and that it's enormous success was more proof that the majority of the population is stupid.

It's more of a casual-styled MorePig. The art design is pretty much copied from Warcraft III, which really helps to keep it all within the same feel in the universe.

People held a WoW FUNERAL, A FUNERAL, for a dead player.
Further confirmation of your friend's statement.

Mourning a friend's death by celebrating something he loved is stupid? Wow, that's rather shallow.

WoW, you couldn't be more wrong. My friend who played it, his life has pretty much been destroyed by his MMORPG addiction. Asheron's Call was his life for years, he even payed rent and bills just by selling items and some bad-ass characters. Then Everquest was his life. Then a stint with Lineage and Anarchy Online. Then we blasted through Everquest 2 together till we got bored and now, I swear, it's as if any day his body will be sucked into the monitor because he has abandoned everything he once held dear just to live inside Shadowbane.
And sorry, if you can't have any fun in a game until level 20? That's ******ed.

Also it's a matter of aesthetics. Some people like that Disney looking, colorful theme, but it looks like poo to me.

I've got a few friends who've paid for their characters to be powerleveled, which I don't get on a game like that. First off, why do it? How can you be proud of work you didn't even do? Secondly, why pay for it?

 

[Drakon]

If you play right, and are not a complete idiot to MMOs, it takes less than a week to get to lvl 20.

In fact, I started a Mage yesterday at 12pm EST. He's lvl 26 right now, and it's 2am EST the next day. He has just under 1day logged into him.

The more you play the game though, the more the first 20 levels suck. I personally have many multiple lvl 60's, and I make a ton selling items/accounts/gold on various sites or to various sites to sell to others. So much, that I can net at least 1grand a week playing this game.

Also note, that the game doesn't really suck sub 20, it's more or less a borefest for people like me who have done the same quests 300 times and have grinded on the same mobs for 1000+ hours.

Matter of fact, my main character is a lvl 60 Dwarf Warrior. He has 458 days on his /played. And for those who don't know what "/played" means, it has to do with how many hours the character has been actually logged onto the game.

That's the beauty of the game. You can play at your own speed. It's geared more towards the casual gamer. Granted, you can't get the absolute best stuff, but you can get to see most of the stuff relatively easily.

 

[SouLeSS]

yeah, some of us dont have time to play 24/7 cause we work full time every day and have actual things to do on our days off...so it would probably take me more than a week to get to level 20 because I wasnt "playing right"...*****e...

What part of " I personally have many multiple lvl 60's, and I make a ton selling items/accounts/gold on various sites or to various sites to sell to others. So much, that I can net at least 1grand a week playing this game" Didn't you understand?

Oh wait, I'm assuming you read my whole post. SOrry.

 

[The Leaguer]

The problem with WoW, and most other new MMO's, is that they are gear towards sissies.

Classic (pre-Luclin) EverQuest was f***ing hardcore. There were no stupid windriders or portals. If you had to go somewhere, you either paid another player to take you, or you f***ing walked. And there were no girlie mounts. Just arrow keys and an auto-run button.

And there was actually a consequence for dying, not just the inconvenience of running back to your corpse (in a f***ing ghost form, where nothing can hit you) and paying for repairs. In EQ, you lost your damn experience, the most valuabe commodity in the game. And if you didn't get back to your corpse fast enough, that f***er DECAYED! That means that s*** was gone! Forever! All your inventory, gone. And there was no ***** ghost form. You respawned where you were bound, and you found out how the f*** to get your corpse back. And if you died in bad spot, that s*** didn't just magically appear at the front of the zone. No, you had to go in after the bastard, unless you shelled out hard-earned money for someone to summon it. That isn't for newbs.

And there were no instances. Instances are for women. In EQ, you had to actually COMPETE WITH OTHER PLAYERS FOR CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! Oh noes! And I don't mean the sissy honor crap from WoW, I mean, if there was a monster you wanted dead, you had better get to that s*** first, or you're gonna lose out.

And maps? F*** maps. In classic EQ, you used your damn memory, or your ass was lost.

And leveling was a b****, too. There was no getting to level 60 in five days. No, you had to work at that crap. And term "Hell level" is one that struck fear in the hearts of EQ players everywhere. The closest WoW comes to a Hell level is when you run out of rested experience.

And another thing. Rested experience? Jesus, why don't they just hand the crap to you on a plate.

EQ was a man's game.

 

[Drakon]

The problem with WoW, and most other new MMO's, is that they are gear towards sissies.

Classic (pre-Luclin) EverQuest was f***ing hardcore. There were no stupid windriders or portals. If you had to go somewhere, you either paid another player to take you, or you f***ing walked. And there were no girlie mounts. Just arrow keys and an auto-run button.

And there was actually a consequence for dying, not just the inconvenience of running back to your corpse (in a f***ing ghost form, where nothing can hit you) and paying for repairs. In EQ, you lost your damn experience, the most valuabe commodity in the game. And if you didn't get back to your corpse fast enough, that f***er DECAYED! That means that s*** was gone! Forever! All your inventory, gone. And there was no ***** ghost form. You respawned where you were bound, and you found out how the f*** to get your corpse back. And if you died in bad spot, that s*** didn't just magically appear at the front of the zone. No, you had to go in after the bastard, unless you shelled out hard-earned money for someone to summon it. That isn't for newbs.

And there were no instances. Instances are for women. In EQ, you had to actually COMPETE WITH OTHER PLAYERS FOR CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! Oh noes! And I don't mean the sissy honor crap from WoW, I mean, if there was a monster you wanted dead, you had better get to that s*** first, or you're gonna lose out.

And maps? F*** maps. In classic EQ, you used your damn memory, or your ass was lost.

And leveling was a b****, too. There was no getting to level 60 in five days. No, you had to work at that crap. And term "Hell level" is one that struck fear in the hearts of EQ players everywhere. The closest WoW comes to a Hell level is when you run out of rested experience.

And another thing. Rested experience? Jesus, why don't they just hand the crap to you on a plate.

EQ was a man's game.

Next you'll be telling us that your mage had to walk uphill both ways in the snow with no shoes just to learn Fireball.

Seriously, though, think about it. If the game remained a "man's game" for that long, do you really think it would be as successful as it is now? Probably not. The genre and eventually the game itself would eventually drop in support, until it was killed off forever.

 

[The Leaguer]

Do I think support would drop off? Of course not. EverQuest subscription was constantly growing in numbers until two things happened: 1) designers focused far too much on adding more and more endgame content and not focusing enough on newbie content, while at the same time throwing in new content without fixing or revitalizing the old, and 2) other MMO's popped up like weeds, targeting the largest demographic EQ was ignoring: newbies.

Would they be as successful as they are now? Of course not. For the most part, people who play video games are casual. Hardcore gamers are far fewer than casual gamers. Because of that, designers targeted them when creating new MMO's. Even EverQuest started taking that route: content alone, EQ is virtually identical to WoW right now. The only drawback, however, is that once games (MMO's, at least) get casual, they lose a lot of what made them fun in the first place.

 

[Drakon]

Do I think support would drop off? Of course not. EverQuest subscription was constantly growing in numbers until two things happened: 1) designers focused far too much on adding more and more endgame content and not focusing enough on newbie content, while at the same time throwing in new content without fixing or revitalizing the old, and 2) other MMO's popped up like weeds, targeting the largest demographic EQ was ignoring: newbies.

Think about it like this. As a new gamer, [Completely new, not just new to MMORPGs] you're gonna want an easier learning curve. Imagine being the guy with a girl who hates games. If you can get her interested in this game, then it's a start. If she starts playing and she's hooked, you just got yourself a golden ticket--you now have something to bond over, Christmas and Birthdays just got a lot simpler, and she's not hounding over you because you want to go kill VanCleef instead of watching Legally Blonde.

As a developer, sure, you're making a lot of money off the 50k subscribers you have, but in order to progress, you need more people and more money. This is where newbies come in. If you're not getting any extra profit from newbies, then you're stagnant and not really making a whole lot of progress. And with a game like EQ, once you get your class, you're basically stuck with it, so if you want a Rogue to play instead of your Necromancer, you're back to being a newbie. And without that extra content, even oldbies will leave the game, leaving you without profit. And as we all know, if you're not making money off it, it's not a good idea to keep around.

Would they be as successful as they are now? Of course not. For the most part, people who play video games are casual. Hardcore gamers are far fewer than casual gamers. Because of that, designers targeted them when creating new MMO's. Even EverQuest started taking that route: content alone, EQ is virtually identical to WoW right now. The only drawback, however, is that once games (MMO's, at least) get casual, they lose a lot of what made them fun in the first place.

I completely agree. I hate seeing all these Neo-Nintendo Nitwits aged 13 or so who are all "Old School Gaming is the ****!" and then you ask them to define Old school, they go back to early PS2.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Newbies are definitely being targeted for higher sales in all genres. Look at the difference between Morrowind and Oblivion in the SP RPG category. Oblivion dropped a bunch of the customizability that made Morrowind so much fun. The only increases in customizability Oblivion features are cosmetic ones that are basically to be expected of a next-gen engine. I played Morrowind through about 4 or 5 times with different characters, but I got bored of Oblivion and uninstalled it before making it through the main storyline with my first character.

 

[The Leaguer]

Think about it like this. As a new gamer, [Completely new, not just new to MMORPGs] you're gonna want an easier learning curve. Imagine being the guy with a girl who hates games. If you can get her interested in this game, then it's a start. If she starts playing and she's hooked, you just got yourself a golden ticket--you now have something to bond over, Christmas and Birthdays just got a lot simpler, and she's not hounding over you because you want to go kill VanCleef instead of watching Legally Blonde.

I perfectly understand why tailoring a game to newbies leads to more players and more money. I'm not debating that. My problem with it is when what's fun about the game is sacrificed, the challenge.

When I had to walk everywhere in EQ, the world seemed massive. I couldn't believe the awesome zones I would travel through. Once they added portals, and even mounts to some extent, it felt like the world shrunk. Suddenly, a zone half-a-world away was only two minutes away. The magic was gone.

When I would lose experinece (and even levels), and I would have to run and get my corpse, or God-forbid, I died in a dungeon, or a raid zone, dying was a terrifying concept to me. I did everything I could to survive, even (a few times) sacrifice group- and raid-mates. However, once it reached the point where the only thing dying meant was a trip through ghost-world, the dying in the game lost all meaning. The fun was gone.

It's in ways like that that I feel newbie-fying games, particularly MMO's, is a terrible thing.

Do I undestand the reasoning from the perspective of the company? Sure. Does it impove my gaming experience, as a customer? Not a chance.

As a developer, sure, you're making a lot of money off the 50k subscribers you have, but in order to progress, you need more people and more money. This is where newbies come in. If you're not getting any extra profit from newbies, then you're stagnant and not really making a whole lot of progress. And with a game like EQ, once you get your class, you're basically stuck with it, so if you want a Rogue to play instead of your Necromancer, you're back to being a newbie. And without that extra content, even oldbies will leave the game, leaving you without profit. And as we all know, if you're not making money off it, it's not a good idea to keep around.

Now what you're talking about is less about newbie-fying games, and more about the approaches designers take towards designing and upkeeping games, and, for the most part, is a matter of opinion.

What you're talking about in reference to classes is really primarily a debate about linear class progression versus tree progression. Personally, I prefer linear progression. I love starting two new characters and, right off the bat, being able to tell a fundamental difference. And as for being stuck with a class, I can normally tell within ten levels whether or not I'm going to like a class, and regardless of what game you're playing, the first ten levels are normally extremely quick.

On the other hand, I really dislike tree progression. Tree progression is something I felt helped to completely ruin EverQuest 2. By the time I hit level 20 with my Defender, I couldn't tell any difference at all from when I was level one. Each time I hit a split in the class tree, I couldn't tell a difference beyond what my character was actually called. I believe class trees take away from the uniqueness of classes.

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not saying adding content is bad. Far from it, I love new content. How content was added, however, is extremely important. EverQuest did two things wrong, and it ended up completely ruining the game.

The first thing they did wrong was their overall approach to content: add, add, add. When improving a game, you can do two things: improve what is already there, and add new stuff. The first was a foreign concept to EverQuest designers. If you have five newbie zones, and one hundred newbies, the proportions are rather nice: 20 newbies per zone. But once you add ten more newbie zones, and the number of newbies isn't going up, you start to have a drop in zone population, and some zones are abandoned altogether. The same principle works for end-game zones.

The second thing EverQuest did wrong is add new things way, way too quickly. By the time guilds were beginning to take full advantage of end-game content, new content was being thrown their way. And normally, this new content usually had equipment that rendered all old equipment obsolete, so guilds had no choice but to immigrate. Entire tiers of zones were being abandoned every few months.

But zones weren't the only things affected. Actual in-game features were beginning to be rendered obsolete, as well. One EQ expansion introduced something called Dungeons, which were dungeon-based, timed quests with a few different goals. A few expansions later, they did little more than waste time. EverQuest's downfall resulted from adding content instead of fixing content.

 

[Mr. Smash'n Bash]

**** WoW, I'm waiting for Warhammer Online before I get back into MMORPGs.

 

[Benstamania]

WoW is by far the BEST MMO out there, and I don't know what you guys are talking about, the LOW levels are the fun ones.

 

[The Leaguer]

It's funny how not-the-best it is.

 

[Zen]

One day...

heroes journey will creep out from underneath your bed while you were sleeping and you'll wonder how the *&%$ you didnt notice it sooner...


Everquest pre-lucen was only heaven to people who made it their lives. everyone else hated it because it was a **** grind-fest worse then WoW, with stiff penalties that made you value certain things alot and hate other things more... when it was one of the ONLY choices out there, people were forced to play it. Lemme let you in on a little secret... without any sheep the wolves starve, all the innocent people that were forced to play that game now have other choices which would leave a Pre-lucen EQ without any of those people... only ruthless snarks would be left, and therefor youd have the game you want but it will NEVER be the game you HAD. you want to hear about stiff penalties? if you died in gemstone without a deed your character was dead... forever! goodnight Irene! and that was a text game... where you actually roleplayed....

ohh wait, NOBODY DOES THAT ***** ANYMORE

...that is, untill hero's journey releases.

You want PvP, clan-guild-faction warfare... you want your clothes to not dictate your level-profession or strength... or you can its your choice, look like a pirate or a decrepit old man, it doesnt matter... you can still burninate, and have the Defense of platemail. you want you weapons and armor to stay with you and have them gain fame in it and of themselves... you want real quests that effect the game, that actually have thought put into them... you want a nemesis to taunt you throughout the game... building an army to eventually cause an endgame showdown with you when you finally get sick of it all? you want warfare to actually be intelligent? with multi-person combos and spells that are more then click and cast? spells where you actually draw a line in the sand that sets on fire? or in a spiral...whatever! you want NPC"s that actually do something in game besides hand out quests... like replant burnt forest and rebuild sundered towns, speaking of which you want town warfare... buildings destroyable, you want a quest tree that tailors to you, quests you can actually fail... and a different outcome arises... you want an army of GM's running live events and playing the roles of bosses... screw that, you want and ARMY OF GM's adding new content everyday... new events everyday...youi want to actually be able to use the environment against your enemy...like drop bridges, roll boulders down mountains... you want MOBS with actual intelligent AI, Mobs that work together creatively instead of aggro to the damage/healer dealer... you want a dual class system where you major in one and minor in another... you want an apprentice master program that benefits both in a fair mannor, you want quests to scale so you can play with any level player and have fun(and not just scale but cater to the group so as to make it more fun to be there) youi want socketed items that accept magical abilities that you gained as experience from doing quests... and you want a game that makes it so the powergamer who neglects quests and focuses on leveling is hampered in the end...

and last but not least, you want to build a mage tower on the back of a magical turtle... and not just any magical turtle, but one that moves and swims... and has an aura that enhances your magical abilities... yeh, well the game is hero's journey.

Massively Multiplayer roleplaying game that you actually ROLEPLAY within... imagine that.

yeh, ill be up in there, roastin all ya asses and making potions in my freaking laboratory!

 

[Zen]

WoW is by far the BEST MMO out there, and I don't know what you guys are talking about, the LOW levels are the fun ones.

Wow is crap. its watered down crap that the masses are eating like some kinda strawberry flavored gruel fed to slaves... its got no variety in the quests, its all hunter gatherer crap... get this many of these, kill this many of these... raid this dungeon, get this armor drop... and battlegrounds is just awfull... the honor system is still F*&^%$ed to hell and its extremely boring after 60... there is nothing to do. when the expansion comes out... and youve tired of flying on your mount and jewelcrafting, there will be nothing to do after 70 except wait for the next expansion to 80 and a new race and a new profession... why cant they pump money into fixing the quests and making the game actually fun to play

EVE is 10 times the game WOW is but sadly it takes even more time then WoW does. theres actually political structure in EVE...

Instances are boring, you know... after youve done 3 er 4 its the same things over and over.

WoW is what youve been spoonfed because you dont know what else is out there/else is possible.

 

[imdaly]

One day...

heroes journey will creep out from underneath your bed while you were sleeping and you'll wonder how the *&%$ you didnt notice it sooner...


Everquest pre-lucen was only heaven to people who made it their lives. everyone else hated it because it was a **** grind-fest worse then WoW, with stiff penalties that made you value certain things alot and hate other things more... when it was one of the ONLY choices out there, people were forced to play it. Lemme let you in on a little secret... without any sheep the wolves starve, all the innocent people that were forced to play that game now have other choices which would leave a Pre-lucen EQ without any of those people... only ruthless snarks would be left, and therefor youd have the game you want but it will NEVER be the game you HAD. you want to hear about stiff penalties? if you died in gemstone without a deed your character was dead... forever! goodnight Irene! and that was a text game... where you actually roleplayed....

ohh wait, NOBODY DOES THAT ***** ANYMORE

...that is, untill hero's journey releases.

You want PvP, clan-guild-faction warfare... you want your clothes to not dictate your level-profession or strength... or you can its your choice, look like a pirate or a decrepit old man, it doesnt matter... you can still burninate, and have the Defense of platemail. you want you weapons and armor to stay with you and have them gain fame in it and of themselves... you want real quests that effect the game, that actually have thought put into them... you want a nemesis to taunt you throughout the game... building an army to eventually cause an endgame showdown with you when you finally get sick of it all? you want warfare to actually be intelligent? with multi-person combos and spells that are more then click and cast? spells where you actually draw a line in the sand that sets on fire? or in a spiral...whatever! you want NPC"s that actually do something in game besides hand out quests... like replant burnt forest and rebuild sundered towns, speaking of which you want town warfare... buildings destroyable, you want a quest tree that tailors to you, quests you can actually fail... and a different outcome arises... you want an army of GM's running live events and playing the roles of bosses... screw that, you want and ARMY OF GM's adding new content everyday... new events everyday...youi want to actually be able to use the environment against your enemy...like drop bridges, roll boulders down mountains... you want MOBS with actual intelligent AI, Mobs that work together creatively instead of aggro to the damage/healer dealer... you want a dual class system where you major in one and minor in another... you want an apprentice master program that benefits both in a fair mannor, you want quests to scale so you can play with any level player and have fun(and not just scale but cater to the group so as to make it more fun to be there) youi want socketed items that accept magical abilities that you gained as experience from doing quests... and you want a game that makes it so the powergamer who neglects quests and focuses on leveling is hampered in the end...

and last but not least, you want to build a mage tower on the back of a magical turtle... and not just any magical turtle, but one that moves and swims... and has an aura that enhances your magical abilities... yeh, well the game is hero's journey.

Massively Multiplayer roleplaying game that you actually ROLEPLAY within... imagine that.

yeh, ill be up in there, roastin all ya asses and making potions in my freaking laboratory!

<goes to look up Heroes Journey>

...why have I never heard of this game before??

 

[Zen]

<goes to look up Heroes Journey>

...why have I never heard of this game before??

One day...

heroes journey will creep out from underneath your bed while you were sleeping and you'll wonder how the *&%$ you didnt notice it sooner...

lengthen message by 3 characters? damn you mirko!!!

 

[imdaly]

Game has my attention now.








...but I still insist on getting my True Fantasy Live Online....

 

[Addendum]

If I want to roleplay with others...

1) I find some others in my town. This was easier in college
2) I get a blank character sheet, and flip through a couple books to find a character class
3) After the various stuff in creating a character, I roleplay.

Besides, it's better to roleplay wired on Pizza, Mountain Dew, and Cheetos

 

[iceberg325]

Wow is crap. its watered down crap that the masses are eating like some kinda strawberry flavored gruel fed to slaves... its got no variety in the quests, its all hunter gatherer crap... get this many of these, kill this many of these... raid this dungeon, get this armor drop... and battlegrounds is just awfull... the honor system is still F*&^%$ed to hell and its extremely boring after 60... there is nothing to do. when the expansion comes out... and youve tired of flying on your mount and jewelcrafting, there will be nothing to do after 70 except wait for the next expansion to 80 and a new race and a new profession... why cant they pump money into fixing the quests and making the game actually fun to play

EVE is 10 times the game WOW is but sadly it takes even more time then WoW does. theres actually political structure in EVE...

Instances are boring, you know... after youve done 3 er 4 its the same things over and over.

WoW is what youve been spoonfed because you dont know what else is out there/else is possible.

Its not crap. It does get a little repetetive though.

 

[Phantom Lantern]

GemStone IV and dragonrealms offer three account types for players to choose from: standard ($14.95), premium ($39.95) and platinum ($49.95).

the plantinum accounts allow players to get to use player housing, larger inventory space, better customer service

basically stuff you take for granted in other games you have to fork out $50 a month for

they are being very coy about the fees in heroes journey

this is definately their biggest ever project will they risk messing up with outrageous fees ?