WWII in the New 52

[Shazam]

Have they even explored any history of the 40's in this new universe? Just wondering if there were any heroes?? Did they even have a Golden Age??


The JSA of old is gone now....... so whats the scoop?

 

[CrimsonMist]

I don't think they've really gone into it all that much. In Men of War #1, they mention Sgt. Rock fighting in WW2, as the book deals with his grandson. That's about it.

Kinda curious too if Enemy Ace still exists, as well. I know they radically re-did Tomahawk, and most of the Western characters outside of Jonah Hex still exist.

 

[Shazam]

I don't think they've really gone into it all that much. In Men of War #1, they mention Sgt. Rock fighting in WW2, as the book deals with his grandson. That's about it.

Kinda curious too if Enemy Ace still exists, as well. I know they radically re-did Tomahawk, and most of the Western characters outside of Jonah Hex still exist.

I was just thinking about the DC Golden age.......I know that the weird Earth 2 book is suppose to cover the old JSA.........

But DC has such a vast array of history, it would be a shame to not use them.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think all we have now is Wraith from Superman Unchained and Sgt. Rock that's been involved with DC's World War II. It seems like it's really no different from our version of events now.

 

[Tropico]

The premise of Nu52 is that the superhero thing is, supposedly, very recent. Yet Demon Knights is set in the Dark Ages. If I remember correctly from Stormwatch they're supposed to have had various incarnations throughout the decades but always operated in secrecy. All Star Western, though not superhero-ey would kinda contradict the "5 years ago" premise. In all honesty, I don't think DC has a set plan as to what they're doing. They're already changing stuff from what they said in the beginning, for example in Batman, so I wouldn't be surprised if suddenly stuff happened further back from "5 years ago".

Earth-2 is an alternate Earth and though the characters are based on some of the JSA cast it's still a modern world and not set during or post WWII like the original team and All Star Squadron were.

 

[Shazam]

I think all we have now is Wraith from Superman Unchained and Sgt. Rock that's been involved with DC's World War II. It seems like it's really no different from our version of events now.

Dang........really??

 

[hippie_hunter]

Dang........really??

Yeah. By having the JSA in World War II, it kinda goes against the New 52's history of Superman being the first superhero only 5 years ago.

 

[hippie_hunter]

The premise of Nu52 is that the superhero thing is, supposedly, very recent. Yet Demon Knights is set in the Dark Ages. If I remember correctly from Stormwatch they're supposed to have had various incarnations throughout the decades but always operated in secrecy.

The Demon Knights were the first incarnation of StormWatch.

All Star Western, though not superhero-ey would kinda contradict the "5 years ago" premise.

All Star Western really doesn't on the grounds that it's as you say....the book isn't a superhero book. It's a Western.

In all honesty, I don't think DC has a set plan as to what they're doing. They're already changing stuff from what they said in the beginning, for example in Batman, so I wouldn't be surprised if suddenly stuff happened further back from "5 years ago".

What happened was that DC editors let the Bat-writers decide how to create Bat-continuity so Scott Snyder, Peter Tomasi, Gail Simone, Tony Daniel, and Kyle Higgins decided to keep Bat-continuity almost completely intact but in the extremely condensed time frame of 5 years. They then realized that such an idiotic idea didn't work and made absolutely no sense, hence why we have Zero Year.

Asides from that though, DC really hasn't been going back on their stuff.

 

[Tropico]

It's not just the backtracking, it's what many of the creative people working there have mentioned about the constant changes even in the same month. Long term plans get torn down or "re-worked" and then they go through changes once again when the date is closer. It doesn't seem to affect some titles but there are others where you can feel it just by reading them or by witnessing the revolving door of writers/artists. I can understand trying to keep things fluid, there's nothing wrong with that, but not to the extent that it causes instability. I don't have the trust I used to have a decade or two ago and it extends to Marvel as well; I'm expecting that eventually we'll get stories pre-Superman's appearance. Secret stories never told, time traveling clandestine operations, mass mindwipe's and such have happened so many times already to "adjust" continuity that I don't expect these companies to follow their own word/game plan.

Aren't GL and to a certain extent Swamp Thing also kinda backpedaling on the whole "soft reset" thing?

 

[Shazam]

I jst hate that they just totally dumped a whole history and catalogue of great characters!

 

[HighFivingMF]

Why? This is like the third time it's happened.

 

[Shazam]

Why? This is like the third time it's happened.

No it isn't....They have always kept the golden age intact.....even in Crisis. Now its just gone..........There was always a heroic past history even before Superman.

 

[HighFivingMF]

No it isn't....They have always kept the golden age intact.....even in Crisis. Now its just gone..........There was always a heroic past history even before Superman.

Not until they wrote that there was. When the Silver Age started, Jay Garrick was just a comic book character that Barry Allen liked... Until they stopped writing it that way and the two met. Things were exactly like they are now until they weren't.

 

[Lord]

In the silver age there wasn't, they were from the past in a different universe. The Green Lantern franchise seems to be almost completelly intact, though i'm not sure if Hal Jordan still turned crazy once or if that has been retconed.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Aren't GL and to a certain extent Swamp Thing also kinda backpedaling on the whole "soft reset" thing?

Snyder kept preaching the "intact continuity" for Swamp Thing but in each issue, he would actively contradict it. It's now so far removed from previous continuity that it's almost depressing. I came up with a clever retcon for it, but with the development of The Floronic Man in the last few issues, it totally doesn't exist anymore. I'm still holding out for Charles Soule to do something awesome with it all, based on the small inclusion of the Moore Swamp Thing in Swamp Thing Annual #2.

 

[Shazam]

In the silver age there wasn't, they were from the past in a different universe. The Green Lantern franchise seems to be almost completelly intact, though i'm not sure if Hal Jordan still turned crazy once or if that has been retconed.

The point Im making is that a golden age existed. Whether it was on a parallel earth is irrelevant. DC never tossed them in the trash until now.

 

[HighFivingMF]

The point Im making is that a golden age existed. Whether it was on a parallel earth is irrelevant. DC never tossed them in the trash until now.

You're talking about them right now. So I'm pretty sure they still exist.

And it's still happened. The universe was just altered to a point where it seemingly didn't. Flashpoint was a thing that happened. New 52 is afterward. Everything else was before. Just nobody remembers it.

 

[Tropico]

Snyder kept preaching the "intact continuity" for Swamp Thing but in each issue, he would actively contradict it. It's now so far removed from previous continuity that it's almost depressing. I came up with a clever retcon for it, but with the development of The Floronic Man in the last few issues, it totally doesn't exist anymore. I'm still holding out for Charles Soule to do something awesome with it all, based on the small inclusion of the Moore Swamp Thing in Swamp Thing Annual #2.

Sorry to hear that, man. I know people talk well of the title but I never read more than the first couple of issues from a friend of mine. I knew it started to deviate a bit (like GL has, as much as people deny it) but I didn't know it was so extensive.

Earth 2 is one of the handful of comics I buy because I used to love JSA. Though I can't call it consistently awesome, it's still good. It's hard, though, to reconcile good stories with facsimiles of characters you used to love.

 

[hippie_hunter]

You're talking about them right now. So I'm pretty sure they still exist.

And it's still happened. The universe was just altered to a point where it seemingly didn't. Flashpoint was a thing that happened. New 52 is afterward. Everything else was before. Just nobody remembers it.

The way you perfectly worded this is just absolutely beautiful.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It's not just the backtracking, it's what many of the creative people working there have mentioned about the constant changes even in the same month. Long term plans get torn down or "re-worked" and then they go through changes once again when the date is closer. It doesn't seem to affect some titles but there are others where you can feel it just by reading them or by witnessing the revolving door of writers/artists. I can understand trying to keep things fluid, there's nothing wrong with that, but not to the extent that it causes instability. I don't have the trust I used to have a decade or two ago and it extends to Marvel as well;

Now that I can agree with you. DC has been an editorial mess and a lot of it has to do with Dan DiDio being rather wishy-washy on the creative direction the universe should take. At least with Marvel's editors they clearly tell the writers what they want then approve what the writer plans and as a result writers aren't getting bitter. It sucks that DC isn't telling the writers what they want, approve of what the writer wants, and then backtrack.

I'm expecting that eventually we'll get stories pre-Superman's appearance. Secret stories never told, time traveling clandestine operations, mass mindwipe's and such have happened so many times already to "adjust" continuity that I don't expect these companies to follow their own word/game plan.

Demon Knights and All-Star Superman are both pre-Superman stories. And Booster Gold is lost in time I believe. And in Batman/Superman, Batman and Superman were mind wiped about their first meeting.

Aren't GL and to a certain extent Swamp Thing also kinda backpedaling on the whole "soft reset" thing?

Green Lantern was always set on everything but the Johns stuff didn't happen with the New 52 launch.

Swamp Thing, I don't think so. Right from the get go it was pretty clear that the character was rebooted.

 

[Shazam]

You're talking about them right now. So I'm pretty sure they still exist.

And it's still happened. The universe was just altered to a point where it seemingly didn't. Flashpoint was a thing that happened. New 52 is afterward. Everything else was before. Just nobody remembers it.

Where post-flashpoint do they exist??

 

[HighFivingMF]

Where post-flashpoint do they exist??

Back issues, collected editions, digital comic stores, torrent sites, your memories.

Is it really that much of a difference to you if they occasionally mention that there was a story from 70 years ago that you're never going to read anyway?

 

[Shazam]

You're talking about them right now. So I'm pretty sure they still exist.

And it's still happened. The universe was just altered to a point where it seemingly didn't. Flashpoint was a thing that happened. New 52 is afterward. Everything else was before. Just nobody remembers it.

How can "what happened before" still exist when we even have different origins for most of the characters? Thus, Flashpoint not only changed "afterward" but it also changed the past.

Maybe DC with reveal a "golden age" parallel earth among the new 52 earths.........

 

[Shazam]

Back issues, collected editions, digital comic stores, torrent sites, your memories.

Is it really that much of a difference to you if they occasionally mention that there was a story from 70 years ago that you're never going to read anyway?

Always someone that wants to be a smart alec.........was that necessary? You obviously know that I'm talking about the known DC universe right now! Not back issues of things that don't exist anymore, post-flashpoint.

My question was really simple. Does this new 52 universe have a golden age of heroes? The answer is No.........

and I think that's a shame. You don't have to feel like I do. It just seems that this new 52 has hit and missed. I think this is a miss.

 

[Hush]

What he is saying is that those things happened but so did Flashpoint which erased/altered that timeline from people's memories and now we have this new universe where the idea is that Superman was first and everyone else followed.

You may want that Golden Age but you'll just have to read about it in pre-FP books as Superman was first here.