X-Men: Dark Phoenix Skepticism Thread

Discussion in 'X-Men: Dark Phoenix' started by marvelrobbins, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. henzINNIT Registered

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    It's clearly presented that Charles tried to bury Jean's problems. Jean's situation can just as easily be seen as the result of terrible treatment of mental illness, not the illness itself.
     
  2. The Guard Registered

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    That doesn't translate to a demonization of mental illness in general.

    And this is a very real consequence of some mental illnesses. But it is also something that people who are considered sane can do (lash out irrationally at their loved ones, not evaporate people with their minds)...and again...doesn't translate to a demonization of mental illness in general.

    With the exception of Scott, Jean/Phoenix doesn't tend to lash out at others for no reason. She has been hurt, is scared, and is clearly trying to avoid being controlled or to have herself diminished. In the case of the third act, she is directly threatened with both military force and the cure.

    Which is a separate argument. Your argument is that the film demonized mental illness, and your only evidence of this is that the film showed a negative portrayal of mental illness. That's not enough to suggest that something is being demonized. I'm not going to get into the overall quality of X3 in this discussion. It's largely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
     
    #527 The Guard, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  3. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

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    The only mentally ill character in the film looks like an actual demon LOL
     
    #528 Mad Ones, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  4. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

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    Sure, but she kills Charles because she is a mentally ill villain, Storm gives his eulogy and everyone cries (presumably, we're supposed to be sad too even though the movie told us Charles mistreated her illness), and Jean is left unforgiven (wouldn't know because no one talks about her after Wolverine murders her). Another example of the film's poorly thought-out thrown together half assed "multifaceted" messages.
     
    #529 Mad Ones, Feb 6, 2018
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  5. The Infernal Mky Mk

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    Listing how you interpret/feel about certain scenes is not evidence and you still don't come anywhere near explaining why fiction should be given importance enough to be censored in a way we aren't exposed to something you feel is problematic (even regardless of author intention). In fact your opening paragraph seems more like an arguments for why we shouldn't censor, so we can accurately gauge society's views.

    If you don't have a problem with female or minority villains, then my bad, it just seemed like a reasonable extension of the logic given your previous posts.
     
  6. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

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    It's an interpretation with evidence from the film to back it up. If we passively consume this material, we end up reproducing a lot of crap. Society has historically treated mentally ill people as "evil" so it's not surprising to see that reproduced so often in entertainment media. It's not about censoring, whatever you even mean by that. It's about sending messages that do not reinforce historical violence.

    These films have real effects. Why do you think Black Panther is so important right now? Do you think that because that movie is fiction, the celebration of Africa and black life isn't important? Dismissing these movies because they are "fiction" just discounts these films and what they can do.
     
    #531 Mad Ones, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  7. The Infernal Mky Mk

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    Oh ok then. :cwink:
     
  8. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

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    Although the movie probably would have been a lot better if someone "censored" Brett Ratner's "art," if you know what I mean lol
     
    #533 Mad Ones, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  9. Elayis Registered

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    This argument is like when Rose McGowan called this poster sexist and that it promoted violence against women:

    [​IMG]
     
    #534 Elayis, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  10. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

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    Or you dont care about it so therefore its silly. Nice contribution.
     
  11. Elayis Registered

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    Superheroes are not direct analogs for everyday people. In particular they have powers that humans in real life do not possess. A super-powered individual with psychological problems that has the ability to cause destruction on a catastrophic level is not the same as an everyday human being that happens to hear voices. There is a clear and present danger when a walking nuclear bomb is mentally unbalanced.

    Same goes for Mystique in that situation. She has abilities that regular women do not possess which allows her fight back. Yes, she’s outclassed by Apocalypse, but so was virtually every other X-Man apart from Jean.

    You can’t treat superheroes like regular people because there are clear and major differences to them.
     
  12. psylockolussus Spice Mutant

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  13. henzINNIT Registered

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    Storm's general lack of compasion is staggering in TLS. There's certainly no argument that the film was poorly made and severely under-written.

    Demonizing mental illness though? Nah. Jean is still sympathetic. If only she was given more time and agency in the story we could have had something great. Oh well, at least we have Legion.
     
  14. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

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    You know the X-men are very popular for being a metaphor for real world things like stigmatization. It's pretty silly for these movies to tell a story about oppression while being so lazy with its depiction of mental health.

    I don't know why you want to talk about that Mystique image so much, but in a world where women in superhero movies were scarce, people expect the X-men to showcase their awesome female characters in empowering ways. Like Storm looking like a badass with lightning, Jean with the Phoenix effect, or any other character. But we got Mystique being chocked by Apocalypse all over the marketing, in a franchise where its iconic and most popular hero murdered a woman (for her own good!). No one wanted that and it was obviously ineffective.
    It should have been given as much care as Legion. That way my family and friends wouldn't have left the movie saying "I didn't like that the crazy lady killed everyone." The movie doesn't sympathize with Jean much at all. She's just a demonic looking psycho who destroys an island.
     
  15. psylockolussus Spice Mutant

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    I thought this was about Dark Phoenix not X3.
     
  16. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

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    Post about Dark Phoenix then
     
  17. psylockolussus Spice Mutant

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    Can you just imagine if Simon Kinberg gets this wrong again and there's no Zak Penn/Brett Rather to blame. My God. Fox what were you thinking giving this guy too many chances. He's no JJ Abrams or Sam Raimi.
     
  18. RalphieRandy Registered

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    Where are people getting that they're making Jean schizophrenic again because I don't remember seeing that anywhere? I do remember Sophie Turner saying she studied schizophrenia for the character which would make sense because Jean and Phoenix often fought for control in the comics and cartoons. But I don't see how that would be a retread of the last stand.
     
  19. psylockolussus Spice Mutant

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    This is the problem with these films being a prequel. They always have to referenced the earlier films and some things would have to be repeated even if they are rewriting history. Like if we get a sequel from this and it is set in 2000s... Rogue, Wolverine, Iceman, Kitty, Colossus could be introduced again like in the ot though maybe in different circumstances but it would still be a retread.
     

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