The Infernal
Mky Mk
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2005
- Messages
- 10,984
- Reaction score
- 1,133
- Points
- 103
That was *not* the problem in TSL
Oh well. I guess getting the character wrong was *not* the problem then.
That was *not* the problem in TSL
Oh well. I guess getting the character wrong was *not* the problem then.
Code:
It wasn't, no. A powerful mutant with multiple personality disorder is a great concept, regardless of its accuracy to the comics. TLS just didn't execute it well.
What gets me about Phoenix in this movie is that it's a retread of X-men Last Stand in that they are going with Jean being schizophrenic again. Kinberg says he wants to get it right this time round but he's just amplifying the same problem as last time from what I've read. Not only that but they have alien villains this time round which makes it seem even more redundant.
So what does X3's ending say about mental illness? "We love you but it's better if you're dead." I hate that message. Not saying these themes couldn't be explored in a better written movie. Hopefully Dark Phoenix puts a bit more nuance and depth and care into Jean (and hopefully Jean doesn't die this time).Don't be silly. Having a villain that is mentally unwell isn't the same thing as denigrating people with a mental illness.
So, you're against critical thinking lolNo. You're reading a meaning into something that isn't there. There's no accounting for the minority of people who will always interpret things through certain lenses. They will always find something to complain about whether it exists or not.
So, you're against critical thinking lol
the problem of TLS for me was that they tried to make a movie talking about several things at the same time, and in the end could not focus on any. the fenix in that film was practically a subplot, the film speaks more of the mutant cure.
Critical argument: TLS perpetuates a stigma regarding mental healthThat's not what you're using. You're just making the simplistic equating mentally unstable person is the villain therefore the mentally ill are being demonised. It's the same sort of warped thinking that make people say you can't have a minority as a villain because that demonizes them.
You start accounting for that sort of nonsense then you restrict the stories creators can tell and the roles available for certain actors because of the conclusions a minority will jump too whereas the majority can see it as benign.
So because it's fiction it doesn't matter? Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum.You can tell me how you perceive the film until you're blue in the face. You already said you don't care what the intentions are so you already threw the "debate" as far as I'm concerned. Like I said before you can't go down the road of restricting works of fiction because of messages that aren't even there.
So because it's fiction it doesn't matter? Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Hollywood has made racist and sexist films for decades. Those people would obviously say they didn't intend to make racist or sexist films. Does that make their products any less so? It's their responsibility to think about the **** they're putting out in the world.
Yeah, for the most part. It is just fiction and you're giving it too much responsibility and yourself too little.
Secondly, it matters even less if it's not there in the first place. You're not going to convince me that they have a message that is anti-mental disability. You already threw in the towel on their intentions and I've already articulated why catering to people who seem to think perception is king, anyone's perception, would end up hurting themselves and likely others creatively.
Having a villain be mentally ill or black or female etc doesn't equate to being anti any of those things. Obviously there will be films out there that do demonise, but I think you really have picked a bad example with TLS. How is Hollywood supposed to seriously approach storytelling if your standards are so over the top as no minorities, women or disabled people as villains?
Edit: Just saw The Guard's post. He makes some good points that I hadn't.
Films in this genre can use fantasy and sci fi elements to comment on real world problems and issues in an entertaining and action-oriented way (c'mon, we're in an X-men forum!). Jean only uses her powers in that way because she is mentally ill. She would not have killed Scott if she was not mentally ill. Evaporating those close to her is a metaphor for the destructive way mental illness can force someone to act, lashing out at loved ones for no reason. I'm not saying there isn't a potentially good story here that can go into the nuances of mental illness, but X3 did a terrible Job.There are certainly parallels between Jean Grey and certain types of mental illness.
But just because there's a character who is shown as being dangerous in part because she's mentally ill...that does not equate to the filmmakers demonizing the affliction of mental illness in general. The film makes no statements about mental illness in general, just as the film makes no definitive statements about "being different".
The film focuses on ONE particular instance involving a woman who has another personality entirely AND destructive superpowers; it does not seek to paint all mentally ill people with the same brush at any point.
A negative portrayal of a concept is not in any true sense a statement that this is the only interpretation of said concept.
You say her friends don't try to help her, and that is true with Storm, however Xavier and Logan all try to help her during the course of the film. Even Magneto tries, though he has ulterior motives for mutantkind. She is not the villain merely because she is mentally ill...she is a villain because she uses her powers to harm others, including those who have tried to help her. The film does not present Jean as only unstable or evil, either. It shows us, at several points in the film, Jean either fighting for control or controlling her destructive impulses. And there are those who try to help her, just as there are those who try to use her. It's a lot more multifaceted than just "demonizing" the issue itself.
Additionally, you cannot simply separate the reflection of real life mental illness from the science fiction/fantasy movie's portrayal of someone with an evil alternate personality and unstable superpowers. Mentally ill people do not tend to make others evaporate because they get upset. They can certainly lash out and hurt others in the process, but so can literally anyone, at any time.