Comics X-Men: Last Man Standing (Round 3)

[Valechan]

Because her powers were souped up by a machine. Let's at least point out the entire situation, hm?

Nope, the power-souping happened later. The dinos only caught her in the first place because she allowed kurt to stop her.

So, how fast can Storm fly? Because if Alex unleashes at full power, without his inhibitors, I'm pretty sure he could make her and a good area around her - or, heck, even himself - go boom and get real messy. How fast can she fly? Fast enough to escape a bomb radius?

Oh, and since she has to fly by directing air currents, and Havok's blasts supercharge the air and make it hot - don't you think that might be a tad distracting and possibly even painful?

I know I wouldn't like to be stuck in and around literally blistering and pan-frying heat.

Storm is able to fly by creating winds strong enough to support her weight and to propel her forward through the air. Storm can thus travel as fast as any wind can, and has reached speeds up to 300 miles per hour. She can also summon winds strong enough to propel others aloft. Storm's power over the atmosphere enable her to breathe at any speed, protect her from air friction, and gran her limited immunity to extreme heat and cold.

 

[HandOfFate]

I think having Jean is this is kind of unfair. Because even without the P-Force she is still an Omega Level Mutant. So maybe you should make her at her power of when she first joined the Xmen with just TK and low TP? Because she will cream anyone in this competion.

I disagree. Most of Jean most impressive feats happened while she was in possession of the Phoenix Force.

Think about it, what has Jean really done without the Phoenix Force that would place her at an omega level?

From what I seen over the years there a very thin line on what is Jean's powers and what is the Phoenix Force. This would be different if the Phoenix Force actually originated with Jean but because of recent writers we know that the Phoenix Force is something high level psi can tap into like Xavier.

 

[Valechan]

IntheKnow, those are things writers do to make the story interesting, you know? In an fight to the death, Ororo would certainly act differently, do read Storm: The Arena.

 

[Valechan]

I disagree. Most of Jean most impressive feat happened while she was in possession of the Phoenix Force.

Think about it, what has Jean really done without the Phoenix Force that would place her at an omega level?

From what I seen over the years there a very thin line on what is Jean's powers and what is the Phoenix Force. This would be different if the Phoenix Force actually originated with Jean.

Bravo... I applaud your post.

 

[Exploding Boy]

Storm getting shot is just a plot device? COME ON! Listen to yourself. Stop talking out of your ass. Now you will completly ignore the fact that someone just broke Storm's defenses.

And In The Know, comic book references are only allowed if they are pro-Storm, not anti-Storm .

 

[El Bastardo]

If Havok, for lack of a better word, nuked the entire area by going postal and not holding back... well, explosions do tend to happen instantaneously. Short of teleportation, even 300 mph travel might not evade that.

But let's not even dwell on that.

Havok's plasma blasts superheat the air. Superheat. I don't think that's any type of gradual or small increase in temperature. And being that we're using uncannyxmen.net spotlights to know character powers...

Powers: psychically linked to the weather patterns of Earth, allowing her to command meteorological energy patterns to raise or lower temperature levels, direct air currents as hurricane-force winds, a pressure dome that can deflect attacks, or to maneuver herself through the sky, excite electron particles to call down lightning bolts, scramble incoming psionic assaults, or fire electrical blasts from her fingertips, and summon clouds as fog cover or in order to bring forth precipitation such as rain, snow, sleet, and hail, alter her body temperature to compensate for weather conditions, and can manipulate her own perceptions to see electrical energy and the factors behind weather phenomena

Do we see anything there about limited immunity to extreme temperatures? Eh, I don't. She can alter her body temperature... but if she increases her body temperature (or lowers it, whichever way is correct as far as biology goes) to compensate for the superheated air, I think that might be a tad dangerous for her.

Oh, and not only are Havok's attacks in the form of plasma that disintegrates objects. He can fire concussive bursts, like Cyke's beams. So much for wind deflecting concussive force.

 

[Intheknow101]

Jean Grey (Non Phoenix Force) Vs Northstar- Vote for Jean. She's caught speedsters like Superman( In Marvel vs DC Unlimited Access) and Quicksilver before with her telekinesis. That's not even factoring in her telepathy.

Storm Vs Havok- I vote HAVOK! She will start yacking about goddesses and being pretentious, giving Havok more than enough time to shoot her out of the air. Even if they both fire off their attacks at once. Havok will have a higher chance of surviving a lightning strike (even normal people have) than Storm surviving a plasma bolt.
Cyclops Vs Shadowcat- I say Shadowcat. Just because Kitty would phase through most of his attacks.

Bonus Fight
Sage Vs Joseph- Joseph. Because he'd wipe her like a strong magneto wiping a harddrive.lol.

 

[Optic Rage]

Only because people here are biased.

**Snorts**

Are you trying to be ironic?

Sebita in these fights you really need to understand that the other x-men are going to fight hard and not hold back...just like Storm.

Havok can create a MASSIVE blast...like a bomb going off....the guy has more RAW power then Storm does..and no matter how fast she can fly she aint gonna get away from a bomb going off in her face.

Oh and there is no chance she can deflect his blasts..no matter what you think

 

[Exploding Boy]

And plus. Storm covers herself in the air that she uses to fly since it is holding her up and pushing her. Super-heated air would burn her alot. Yeah she can fly away using the boiling hot air to push her little goddess-obssesed ass around. Bye Bye Flesh!

 

[FieryBalrog]

I disagree. Most of Jean most impressive feats happened while she was in possession of the Phoenix Force.

Think about it, what has Jean really done without the Phoenix Force that would place her at an omega level?

Hm. Guess what (Thats Apocalypse)

From what I seen over the years there a very thin line on what is Jean's powers and what is the Phoenix Force.

That is because the Force is an extension of her powers.

This would be different if the Phoenix Force actually originated with Jean but because of recent writers we know that the Phoenix Force is something high level psi can tap into like Xavier.

Where does it say that? Recent writers have said Jean and the Force are one. And if high level psis can control it, how come Emma couldn't control it in Endsong, Quentin Quire couldnt, and on the other hand Jean ripped it out of Emma, and merged with it?



Manhandling the Phoenix Force like that, I'm pretty sure that counts as an Omega level feat.

 

[Intheknow101]

I disagree. Most of Jean most impressive feats happened while she was in possession of the Phoenix Force.

Think about it, what has Jean really done without the Phoenix Force that would place her at an omega level?

From what I seen over the years there a very thin line on what is Jean's powers and what is the Phoenix Force. This would be different if the Phoenix Force actually originated with Jean but because of recent writers we know that the Phoenix Force is something high level psi can tap into like Xavier.

1) Transferred her conciousness into the body of the White Queen
2) Attacked Juggernaut through his magical helmet
3) Lifted the equivalent of THOUSANDS of tons
4) flew through hyperspace
5) telekinetically blocked the gravational pull, heat, and energy of a white star
6) Effected Magneto through his helmet.
7) Rearranged molecules and molecular control
8) Stopped a heart
9) Literally destroyed Fitzroy's crystalline armor which resisted Storm's hurricane without even a scratch
10) Turned off nerve endings
11) Held back millions upon millions of microscopic nanites
12) is capable of concussive force blasts knocking someone hundreds of miles
13) blocked the attack of a Guardian of the M'kranh, these were the guys that knocked out Gladiator with ease
14) Tracked an electronic brain

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting.

That is all without tapping into her phoenix potential which is her power and potential anyways. Omega= unlimited potential and power that can one day replace the fundamental forces. We have already seen Jean become the living embodiment of life and passion. Other omegas can do the same.

The force is merely a force that Jean can tap into, doesn't mean that the powers isn't hers. It's her power since it's even referred to as her mutation. Just like how Storm can manipulate meterological forces but there are other characters like Crystal, Thor, Meggan, etc that can also tap into the elements.

 

[Intheknow101]

IntheKnow, those are things writers do to make the story interesting, you know? In an fight to the death, Ororo would certainly act differently, do read Storm: The Arena.

And in a fight to the death you don't think Havok or any other character would go all out as well? Why does Storm get the "she goes all out" card, but everyone else seems to get dealt the "twiddling their thumbs as Storm makes her speech" card?

 

[BBraddockLover]

jean
storm
kitty
joseph

 

[Exploding Boy]

Notice how he fleed once he knew he was wrong.

 

[HandOfFate]

That's great and all that but it really doesn't prove anything. She has a connection with Cyclops, which in turns give her a connection to Apocalypse, this allowed her to serperate them.

Also when did this story take place becuase I love that custome.

That is because the Force is an extension of her powers.

Jean is not the sole possessor of the Phoenix Force. There have been others throughout history who have used it powers. This is not something that originated with Jean, the Phoenix Force was here before the dawn of time, Jean was not.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=60&page=2

Where does it say that? Recent writers have said Jean and the Force are one. And if high level psis can control it, how come Emma couldn't control it in Endsong, Quentin Quire couldnt, and on the other hand Jean ripped it out of Emma, and merged with it?

Well first of all, Quentin did control it. IIRC, he brought one of the Cuckoo back from the dead. Emma is a skilled psi but not an high powered one, Xavier on the other hand is a powerful psi and has tapped into the Phoenix Force.

Manhandling the Phoenix Force like that, I'm pretty sure that counts as an Omega level feat.

She manhandled the Phoenix Force with the power of the Phoenix Force.

 

[Exploding Boy]

Quentin never controlled the Phoenix. It was Emma-Phoenix that revived Sophie. And Emma wasent even in control the Force was just using her to get to Scott. And Jean and the Force are bonded:

"Jean Grey... How did you do that? Without me, without my power..."
"I Am you. Dont you Remember? Now get out of that stupid body."

 

[Valechan]

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Uncanny X-Men 270. In that MARVELOUS issue, the delightful Ms Munroe not only defeated the X-Men's Resident Redhead, Jean Grey, she ALSO DEFEATED HAVOK!!! So Ororo wins, Havok looses.

*dances victory dance*

 

[El Bastardo]

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Uncanny X-Men 270. In that MARVELOUS issue, the delightful Ms Munroe not only defeated the X-Men's Resident Redhead, Jean Grey, she ALSO DEFEATED HAVOK!!! So Ororo wins, Havok looses.

*dances victory dance*

Written by Chris Claremont. Is anybody else surprised that Storm won? It'd be like you writing a comic with Storm in it, sebita.

We've already established that Storm is a plot device and/or deus ex machina.

Edit: I just read the synopsis on uncannyxmen.net. Storm used a wind to blow one of Boom-Boom's time bombs into the dressed-up-as-a-Genoshan-magistrate Havok. ... Yeah. That's definitely Storm beating up Havok.

 

[Intheknow101]

That's great and all that but it really doesn't prove anything. She has a connection with Cyclops, which in turns give her a connection to Apocalypse, this allowed her to serperate them.

Also when did this story take place becuase I love that custome.



Jean is not the sole possessor of the Phoenix Force. There have been others throughout history who have used it powers. This is not something that originated with Jean, the Phoenix Force was here before the dawn of time, Jean was not.



Well first of all, Quentin did control it. IIRC, he brought one of the Cuckoo back from the dead. Emma is a skilled psi but not an high powered one, Xavier on the other hand is a powerful psi and has tapped into the Phoenix Force.





She manhandled the Phoenix Force with the power of the Phoenix Force.

You have your story skewed. The force of creation/life/passion was there since the dawn of time, but Phoenix as we know it came from Jean merging with that force. Death even states that she thought it was a figment of her imagination and she wasn't far off. That it was a concept.

What Jean did to Apocalyspe required lots of skill and power. What matters is she did it, where as Apocalyspe knocked Storm out along with 4 or so other X-Men in under 6 seconds (X-cutioner's Song).

Xavier has never tapped into the phoenix force in continuity. If he did or was in any way connected to being an omega or the force, he would'nt have been afraid of burning up if he ventured too far into JEAN's mind.

Also Quetin didn't bring back the Cuckoo. It was the splintered part of Jean that brought it back for him. It was the sole reason he sought her out.

"she manhandled the phoenix force with the power of the phoenix force?"
Ummm in the panel right after it says "How did you do that WITHOUT ME? WITHOUT MY POWER?" So clearly Jean was using her own power. And if that doesn't work for you it's latered revealed that they are one and the same anyways so it would make sense for Jean to be able to do that since her power is hers regardless of how it is split up.

 

[Exploding Boy]

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Uncanny X-Men 270. In that MARVELOUS issue, the delightful Ms Munroe not only defeated the X-Men's Resident Redhead, Jean Grey, she ALSO DEFEATED HAVOK!!! So Ororo wins, Havok looses.

*dances victory dance*

And read Endsong. And see a Phoenix possesed Emma serve the Goddess's ass to her. And yes thats not Jean but Jean is more powerfull than Emma. And Emma wasent in control, she was just a host so it was the power of the Phoenix; which Jean can control. So by using the transitive property we can conclude that Jean can easily beat Orororororo.

 

[Valechan]

Apocalypse took out Storm because he hurled Beast at her and she tried to catch him. A lot of villains seem to hurl teammates at her.


I've been thinking about The Phoenix Force... it's often been described as a Force of Nature, hasn't it?? It's also been stated, more than once, that Ororo controls the forces of nature... so, connecting the dots she could theoretically control the Phoenix Force.

 

[Intheknow101]

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Uncanny X-Men 270. In that MARVELOUS issue, the delightful Ms Munroe not only defeated the X-Men's Resident Redhead, Jean Grey, she ALSO DEFEATED HAVOK!!! So Ororo wins, Havok looses.

*dances victory dance*

So when Jean is temporarily subdued (notice how she said it was even FUN for her) based on the cirumstance that SHE was training and gauging Storm and didn't go for the KO it's considered a loss. Note that Jean even got off the first hit in there and knocked Storm on her @$$. Now if it had been a real battle Jean would have used much more force to KO or simply telekinetically froze her muscles. Jean also only had tk at the time.

But Storm who in a legitimate REAL battle, directly facing a long time foe in Sauron with a gun, gets knocked out and you dimiss it as being "just the writers making it interesting..."

 

[Intheknow101]

And read Endsong. And see a Phoenix possesed Emma serve the Goddess's ass to her. And yes thats not Jean but Jean is more powerfull than Emma. And Emma wasent in control, she was just a host so it was the power of the Phoenix; which Jean can control. So by using the transitive property we can conclude that Jean can easily beat Orororororo.

And don't forget Jean easily attacked her splinterself using the same attack it used on Storm and then ripped that part of herself out of Emma.

 

[Valechan]

And read Endsong. And see a Phoenix possesed Emma serve the Goddess's ass to her. And yes thats not Jean but Jean is more powerfull than Emma. And Emma wasent in control, she was just a host so it was the power of the Phoenix; which Jean can control. So by using the transitive property we can conclude that Jean can easily beat Orororororo.

Sigh, the dead can't defeat the living, my friend. And btw, I've talked about that before, I'm trying of repeating the same. She didn't utterly destroy Storm as you think, she didn't even leave her unconscious, we merely saw Ororo flipping backwards, we didn't even see if she hit the floor or not. She might've flipped herself back but by the time she did, Jean had already engaged Emma. There wasn't time to see that battle unfold.

 

[Intheknow101]

Apocalypse took out Storm because he hurled Beast at her and she tried to catch him. A lot of villains seem to hurl teammates at her.


I've been thinking about The Phoenix Force... it's often been described as a Force of Nature, hasn't it?? It's also been stated, more than once, that Ororo controls the forces of nature... so, connecting the dots she could theoretically control the Phoenix Force.

And if she's stupid enough to try and catch Beast who is like a full grown Gorilla than she deserves to be knocked out. And by your words it's not the first time she's attempted such a stupid maneuver. You don't try and catch things which are bigger and heavier than you even if you are a preachy pompous self believing goddess.

No Storm controls elements...meteorlogical phenomena. Not nature in general or else we'd see her controlling animals, plants, the earth, etc.