X-Men - Part 4

[kguillou]

I dont think theres anythign wrong with the current Scott. He's changed but then again how could he not after everything thats happened the last several years. It would be unrealistic to expect him to go back to the 80/90s status quo of how the character was

True but after killing Professor X, wouldn't you think he'd try to readjust himself?

 

[ironmaidenrules]

explain to me why Scott is bad? what has he done?

militarized the school? no biggie.

hangs with magneto? so did Charles and rogue

killed Charles Xavier? only while under the influence of the Phoenix, which made Jean destroy star systems.

being a dick to wolverine? wolverine is a dick.
banging Emma frost? makes sense.

 

[Havok83]

I dont even think rolling with Magneto should be used as a strike against him bc the character hasn't been a villian since 2001. Its been over 10 years and the other X-men accepted and fought along side him as well. Many expected him. He's spent the last several years doing good, helping to save the world numerous times. He'll never fully escape his evil past but it isnt a part of his current present. Im guessing he could always end up being the UXM traitor but even if that were the case, that implies that he's going behind Scott's back, whom wouldnt be aware of his true intentions

 

[kguillou]

I always felt Mags was way more interesting as a "good guy" anyway. Even though he has done some horrible things, he seems to now see the validity in what Charles was preaching to him all these years and accepting it.

Cyclops though, I'm just worried about him. When Whedon was writing him it seemed like he finally reached his full potential in terms of becoming a full fledged bad ass leader. Adn then they decided to take him down this dark hole that he may never recover from. Now all of his teamates hate him and Wolverine, who's probably the biggest hypocrite out of all of them (he of all people should know what its like to do horrible things while under supernatural influence) has labeled him as a villain. I dunno, just doesn't seem right.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I always felt Mags was way more interesting as a "good guy" anyway. Even though he has done some horrible things, he seems to now see the validity in what Charles was preaching to him all these years and accepting it.

Cyclops though, I'm just worried about him. When Whedon was writing him it seemed like he finally reached his full potential in terms of becoming a full fledged bad ass leader. Adn then they decided to take him down this dark hole that he may never recover from. Now all of his teamates hate him and Wolverine, who's probably the biggest hypocrite out of all of them (he of all people should know what its like to do horrible things while under supernatural influence) has labeled him as a villain. I dunno, just doesn't seem right.

The Wolverine hypocrisy is more than a little hard to take seriously.

It's like they did a 180 on his character.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

while it may be hypocritical... I think at this point in Wolverine's life... he's known what he's done, accepted it. And mad at scott for essentially going down that path.

To be fair... I think the phoenix brings out everyone's emotions to the extreme. It's every bit what they want to do in that moment in time.. but just don't have the capacity to hault themselves.

You may not have to listen to a hypocrite, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong

 

[ironmaidenrules]

So, I'm not the only one confused by "Scott is a villain now".being the xmen's new catchphrase?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Makes the X-Men easier for Bendis to write. He made Wanda the villain in Avengers too.

 

[Havok83]

I wouldnt say it makes it easier to write, bc turning Wanda into a villian was an easy way to write her out not do anything with her. Bendis is doing something more complex here as he's showing two sides of the same coin. Its not a black and white thing with one side automatically right and the other wrong. So far, despite how the X-men and world view Scott, Bendis hasnt written him as a villian. He's only labeled at such people are still pissed over the events of AvX, which they have a right to be but Scott is about picking up the pieces and moving forward. Bendis said UXM is about Scott's redemption. I guess we'll have to wait and see how far he goes with it but so far, Im not minding how he has handled him

 

[The Batkilt]

The Wolverine hypocrisy is more than a little hard to take seriously.

It's like they did a 180 on his character.

If that's all there is to it then yeah, they've made the character a hypocrite. But it could also be shown down the line that the return of the phoenix force and seeing what it did to The Phoenix Five reminded him of Jean, and that - coupled with his grief over Professor X's death - is why he's not understanding of what Scott did under the influence of the phoenix force.

That's just speculating but if this is about Scott's redemption, then I imagine the reaction of the other X-Men to the Phoenix Five's actions will be explored in more detail. And I'd expect some sort of interaction or confrontations involving Scott and Logan.

 

[Mad Ones]

I just think it's really hard to call Cyclops a villain. He's basically continuing his Extinction team agenda of taking radical steps to ensure the world is safe for places like the Jean Grey School. Sure, it's at odds with the staff at the school, but that doesn't make him an outright villain, and I don't think Bendis is writing him that way. I personally felt bad for him in ANXM after seeing his past self and losing control of his powers. Unfortunately, unlike Jean, it won't be revealed that the phoenix possessed Cyclops was a clone...

The leader of the X-men is always going to look and act differently than someone like Captain America, so comparisons to that type of leadership aren't justified.

I am also on the Wolverine is a horrible hypocrite bandwagon.

 

[Havok83]

If that's all there is to it then yeah, they've made the character a hypocrite. But it could also be shown down the line that the return of the phoenix force and seeing what it did to The Phoenix Five reminded him of Jean, and that - coupled with his grief over Professor X's death - is why he's not understanding of what Scott did under the influence of the phoenix force.

Only problem with this theory is that Wolverine was hard on Scott and hating on him long before AvX. He's been acting like a hypocrite for quite some time following Schism. Logan's reaction towards him following him getting the Phoenix Force is consistent with how he's viewed him since they split

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Logan is certainly a hypocrite... but i think he just prefers to carry all the weight of his past.. and get's really pissed off when other people do anything he's done.

 

[Havok83]

Illyana's new sword is bigger than she is

Spoiler

 

[kguillou]

In Shcism, Logan made a whole stink about "we gotta protect the kids, they're just kids!! blah blah blah" but then in Children's Crusade, the very first thing he did when he saw the yougn avengers was lunge at them ready to shred them up. Granted that may be more of an issue with the writer but you guys see where I'm going with this.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

In Shcism, Logan made a whole stink about "we gotta protect the kids, they're just kids!! blah blah blah" but then in Children's Crusade, the very first thing he did when he saw the yougn avengers was lunge at them ready to shred them up. Granted that may be more of an issue with the writer but you guys see where I'm going with this.

yeah... sometimes i like to prefer that when dealing with the young avengers (who i love) it's from a youth's perspective of over-reacting, over controlling, etc... adults. which is the only sense it makes what so ever...

 

[BoredGuy]

In Shcism, Logan made a whole stink about "we gotta protect the kids, they're just kids!! blah blah blah" but then in Children's Crusade, the very first thing he did when he saw the yougn avengers was lunge at them ready to shred them up. Granted that may be more of an issue with the writer but you guys see where I'm going with this.

Schism technically took place after children's crusade, even if it did finish coming out first.

Once again, the people calling Wolvie a hypocrite have clearly not been reading his main books in the past couple years. Go read Aaron's Wolverine, followed by Uncanny X-Force and W&tXM, then come talk to me about how he's acting these days... pssh, haters!

sorry, onto uncanny

The way I see Scott's team is kinda like America
We put on a big show of force in the name of defending the world and innocent people, and we really do have noble intentions (the american people, at least) but to everyone else we come off a little dick-ish and look like the big bully in the schoolyard.

Scott's not a villain, but it's not at all surprising some people might think he is.

 

[Havok83]

Schism technically took place after children's crusade, even if it did finish coming out first.

Once again, the people calling Wolvie a hypocrite have clearly not been reading his main books in the past couple years. Go read Aaron's Wolverine, followed by Uncanny X-Force and W&tXM, then come talk to me about how he's acting these days... pssh, haters!

Reading all those books only highlights just how inconsistently he is portrayed from writer to writer, which as a result makes him come across as an even bigger hypocrite bc they do change him up depending on the plot they are trying to tell, which doesnt necesarily jive with the next guy

 

[BoredGuy]

only when the "next guy" is Bendis, or whoever wrote Children's crusade (sorry, i forget)

But the majority of his starring appearances for the past 2-3 years have been very consistent, showing him as a remorseful, but resigned to his duty, killer who tries to keep children away from the violence

and now, his character development is leading him even further away from murder

any inconsistency is editorial's fault

 

[Doomed_hero]

Sorry I dont care what wolverine has been put through recently. I agree it shaped his overall feeling in Schism when he wanted to protect the kids after what happen with him and his kids, but that does not mean this man who had a kill sqaud and has been fine with murdering for years gets to be the moral compass of the marvel universe. and it espelly does not mean he gets to look down and act better then Scott. This man has been used by many and goes on a killing spree under someones controls every other month. Yet Scott is taken over and kills one man and Logan thinks he is better. If anything Loagan should be the one defending Scott not leading the charge for his head. Hell when Logan was taken over and killed people, who was the person who took him back into the X-men folds and defended him time after time. It was ****ing Scott. Logan even gave him the sword that could kill hime in case he ever was taken over and was out of control so Scott could kill him.

 

[BoredGuy]

Yeah I agree it's *****ey of him to try to take the moral highground over Scott.
But again, that's because Bendis (or Gillen in AvX Consequences) is writing these exchanges.
I hear many good things about ANXM, but I cannot tolerate Bendis's lack of consistent characterization
Let Jason Aaron write this, and these conversations would improve dramatically

 

[Hawkingbird]

I think Wolverine is being totally in character

 

[Manic]

Wolverine's always been a massive hypocrit. Didn't he once stab Rachel to stop her from killing someone?

 

[javi1024]

Yeah I agree it's *****ey of him to try to take the moral highground over Scott.
But again, that's because Bendis (or Gillen in AvX Consequences) is writing these exchanges.
I hear many good things about ANXM, but I cannot tolerate Bendis's lack of consistent characterization
Let Jason Aaron write this, and these conversations would improve dramatically

Acutally Bendis has a really good grasp on the voices of the characters he's used so far. Wolverine, Beast, Storm, Kitty, all the original X-Men act and react as I'd expect them to.

 

[javi1024]

Wolverine's always been a massive hypocrit. Didn't he once stab Rachel to stop her from killing someone?

Yup. Like in Uncanny 190-something.