X-Men - Part 6

[Venomfan]

i started reading the uncanny x-men omnibus and read a few of the letter pages after the issues and found it really interesting that Wolverine appeared to be the least popular character on the new team

 

[spideyboy_1111]

im just annoyed at the secret wars reboot... i don't like not knowing what's canon in the new universe and whats not... seems like most remained the same. but some stuff didnt.. it's a bit annoying

 

[Havok83]

im just annoyed at the secret wars reboot... i don't like not knowing what's canon in the new universe and whats not... seems like most remained the same. but some stuff didnt.. it's a bit annoying

what isnt canon? It seems (as if from what Ive read), everything about 616 pre-SW is retained. They've just added new characters from other universes

 

[spideyboy_1111]

what isnt canon? It seems (as if from what Ive read), everything about 616 pre-SW is retained. They've just added new characters from other universes

well someone was saying something about Cyclops never killed Xavier and something else never happened that came about that time? read it somewhere. i was like.... um ok.. no thanks

i assumed post secret wars was going to be just like you described.. same continuity.. just a few characters from other universes basically joining the 616 "new universe"

 

[Specter313]

Xavier is still well and dead. That stuff probably popped up from some moron who looked at the preview for Extraordinary #1 which had Storm talking to Xavier, but if they had bothered to wait until the issue actually came out, they would have seen it was her talking to a figment of him that was just in her head. They likely looked at the preview, jumped to conclusions, and spread it somewhere on the internet and others passed it around like fact. You know how it goes.

 

[Mike Murdock]

In fairness, it was a deliberate tease. You were meant to think that was a possibility.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

im just annoyed at the secret wars reboot... i don't like not knowing what's canon in the new universe and whats not... seems like most remained the same. but some stuff didnt.. it's a bit annoying

I'm more disapointed it wasn't a reboot. IMO Marvel is in serious need of a 52 style reboot to their titles. I thought that was the plan with Secret Wars, but instead it's muddled all the different universes together into one big mess.

With the complete lack of originality (and good storytelling) across the board in "all new all different" Marvel, I'm starting to think Marvel are just using the comics now to make a headline here and there to help publicity for their movies.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I would have liked a reboot, but ANAD has been so great so far, I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[Havok83]

what is that?

 

[BoredGuy]

Wonder what BleedingCool has to say about this:

http://www.newsarama.com/27034-report-apocalypse-wars-x-men-crossover-in-2016.html

between new merch and several new series for Deadpool, 2 X-related TV shows, and now this Apocalypse event, it seems Marvel and Fox's rivalry has cooled substantially.
Could it be Perlmutter really was as much of a roadblock as some had suspected, and Feige is not the evil mastermind Johnston has been trying to imply he is?

Wolverine and Ben Grimm for Infinity War!
lol

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, it's a noticeable change. Some people thought it was just Deadpool being different, but this is the first legitimate cross-promotion I've seen in a very long time (perhaps since Spider-Man was back in black for Spider-Man 3).

 

[def28]

Wonder what BleedingCool has to say about this:

http://www.newsarama.com/27034-report-apocalypse-wars-x-men-crossover-in-2016.html

between new merch and several new series for Deadpool, 2 X-related TV shows, and now this Apocalypse event, it seems Marvel and Fox's rivalry has cooled substantially.
Could it be Perlmutter really was as much of a roadblock as some had suspected, and Feige is not the evil mastermind Johnston has been trying to imply he is?

Wolverine and Ben Grimm for Infinity War!
lol

Bleeding cool would say...

There won’t be any tie in, the Fox/Marvel division is still in full effect. But, just as you had time travelling between the past, present and future in the X-Men books during Days Of Future Past, so you’ll have Apocalypse up front and centre again during the next X-Men movie.

Their past arguments are so muddled at this point it's ridiculous. These two companies get along and 95% of their click bait is gone.

 

[Mike Murdock]

That makes very little sense. If they're saying there won't be a direct prequel/tie-in comic to the Fox movies, then I'll agree with that, but it doesn't mean there won't be cross-promotion by making comics that draw attention to what the movies are doing. Now an Epic Collection of X-Factor #1-26 would be ideal. Maybe an Apocalypse "best of" would work too.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm more disapointed it wasn't a reboot. IMO Marvel is in serious need of a 52 style reboot to their titles. I thought that was the plan with Secret Wars, but instead it's muddled all the different universes together into one big mess.

With the complete lack of originality (and good storytelling) across the board in "all new all different" Marvel, I'm starting to think Marvel are just using the comics now to make a headline here and there to help publicity for their movies.

im the opposite.. there's no valid reason to reboot a long running comic book series imo... what's interesting is the continuity and the history imo... I mean Marvel had spit out and tried rebooting the MU so many times via Ultimate, Marvel Adventures.. etc.. and people ultimately left them for the 616 universe.. and will continue to. People like the rich history.. yes there's drawbacks in story telling.. but DC right now is so far removed from how i know the characters, i have absolutely no desire to read any of them...

 

[Havok83]

im the opposite.. there's no valid reason to reboot a long running comic book series imo... what's interesting is the continuity and the history imo... I mean Marvel had spit out and tried rebooting the MU so many times via Ultimate, Marvel Adventures.. etc.. and people ultimately left them for the 616 universe.. and will continue to. People like the rich history.. yes there's drawbacks in story telling.. but DC right now is so far removed from how i know the characters, i have absolutely no desire to read any of them...

no they didnt. The Ultimate line was NEVER a reboot of the MU. Nor was Marvel Adventures. Those were imprints and always treated as something separate as the regular 616 continued to be written for alongside them. The company wide reboot that has been done many times with DC has never been attempted by Marvel. The closest one can point is Heroes Reborn but even that used the existing history of the heroes and just transported them to another universe, as opposed to completely starting new

I was always against a reboot but current Marvel is a mess and muddled and convoluted. They've ruined and destroyed the core of so many of their lines that a reboot would almost be welcomed at this point. SW was so half-assed and felt like it was done for no reason. I think a reboot would have been the only decent payoff from it but instead they've only worked towards further convoluting the MU and IMO, alienate longtime readers.

 

[BoredGuy]

well they've got to choose, one direction or the other.

They can either stick closely with the continuity and have editors who are sharp and trying to maintain the universe
or they can reboot fresh every couple years and have it be known that it's entirely seperate volumes of the story

but this mish-mash of old continuity and PR-stunt "new" stuff that both DC and Marvel are pursuing right now is the absolute worst of both worlds

 

[spideyboy_1111]

no they didnt. The Ultimate line was NEVER a reboot of the MU. Nor was Marvel Adventures. Those were imprints and always treated as something separate as the regular 616 continued to be written for alongside them. The company wide reboot that has been done many times with DC has never been attempted by Marvel. The closest one can point is Heroes Reborn but even that used the existing history of the heroes and just transported them to another universe, as opposed to completely starting new

I was always against a reboot but current Marvel is a mess and muddled and convoluted. They've ruined and destroyed the core of so many of their lines that a reboot would almost be welcomed at this point. SW was so half-assed and felt like it was done for no reason. I think a reboot would have been the only decent payoff from it but instead they've only worked towards further convoluting the MU and IMO, alienate longtime readers.

you misunderstand. The non-continuity alternate universes like Ultimate... ARE very much Marvel's way of experimenting with reboots. always have been.. if the Ultimate universe would have truly stuck.. and caused the 616 one to lose the readers... you would no longer have a 616 universe... They just didn't want to out-right get rid of the 616 during the creation of the ultimate comics... so they chose to have both at the same time...

the Ultimate Universe is likely very similar to what the 616 universe would look like rebooted like DC has done a million times.

Heroes Reborn was yes, another attempt by marvel.. and it failed miserably.

imo the difference between Marvel and DC is Marvel i think listens to it's fanbase a bit more... DC tends to go "Ok we are doing it, another rebooted universe is happening"

and the fans tend to still read and keep going even when it's unwanted. (but then again they're use to it. It's happened multiple times for DC readers already)

Marvel just needs to get off of the "BIG EARTH SHATTERING EPIC YEARLY EVENT GIMMICK.. and actually stick with a status quo for a long while.. and not change it up yearly... by throwing darts at a board to figure out who is going on a new team or taking up an iconic costume and name and running with it on a yearly basis.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

well they've got to choose, one direction or the other.

They can either stick closely with the continuity and have editors who are sharp and trying to maintain the universe
or they can reboot fresh every couple years and have it be known that it's entirely seperate volumes of the story

but this mish-mash of old continuity and PR-stunt "new" stuff that both DC and Marvel are pursuing right now is the absolute worst of both worlds

agrees.

i think it's far less confusing to just keep continuity.. and either erase it.. alter it.. let someone forget it.. or idgac just don't let us sit around picking and choosing what is and isn't still canon.. that's the worst of the worst.

 

[Havok83]

you misunderstand. The non-continuity alternate universes like Ultimate... ARE very much Marvel's way of experimenting with reboots. always have been.. if the Ultimate universe would have truly stuck.. and caused the 616 one to lose the readers... you would no longer have a 616 universe... They just didn't want to out-right get rid of the 616 during the creation of the ultimate comics... so they chose to have both at the same time...

the Ultimate Universe is likely very similar to what the 616 universe would look like rebooted like DC has done a million times.

Heroes Reborn was yes, another attempt by marvel.. and it failed miserably.

imo the difference between Marvel and DC is Marvel i think listens to it's fanbase a bit more... DC tends to go "Ok we are doing it, another rebooted universe is happening"

and the fans tend to still read and keep going even when it's unwanted. (but then again they're use to it. It's happened multiple times for DC readers already)

Marvel just needs to get off of the "BIG EARTH SHATTERING EPIC YEARLY EVENT GIMMICK.. and actually stick with a status quo for a long while.. and not change it up yearly... by throwing darts at a board to figure out who is going on a new team or taking up an iconic costume and name and running with it on a yearly basis.

IDA. The fact that 616 co-existed negates that. The Ultimate line was incredibly popular and sold well. Ultimates, Ultimate Spiderman and Ultimate X-men were top sellers for years, doing just as well, if not better than many other popular 616 titles. If they were there to test the waters, then Marvel would have gone ahead with having them permanently replace 616 bc they were instant hits when they were introduced. They were meant to serve a different purpose though, not test the waters to replace 616. Its initial premise was to gain new viewers without the confinements of the long and intimidating history, something they aimed to capitalize on as the movies took off. It took years for readership to wane and that happened as a result of them having their own history and years worth of story to catch up, something which went against that initial premise. For the Ultimate line to succeed, it really should have ended and gone through a series of complete reboots every couple of years, like DC does. 10 years+ after the fact, it lost its appeal.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

IDA. The fact that 616 co-existed negates that. The Ultimate line was incredibly popular and sold well. Ultimates, Ultimate Spiderman and Ultimate X-men were top sellers for years, doing just as well, if not better than many other popular 616 titles. They were meant to serve a different purpose though, not test the waters to replace 616. Its initial premise was to gain new viewers without the confinements of the long and intimidating history, something they aimed to capitalize on as the movies took off. It took years for readership to wane and that happened as a result of them having their own history and years worth of story to catch up, something which went against that initial premise. For the Ultimate line to succeed, it really should have ended and gone through a series of complete reboots every couple of years, like DC does. 10 years+ after the fact, it lost its appeal.

no it really doesn't negate anything.. it just means marvel was playing it safe. once you reboot.. you reboot..

the ultimate universe allowed them to experiment.. and when it did kick off there were alot of rumors and speculation at the time that it would be the main stay at some point.

what exactly do you think happens when you gain more new readers than you have old? the new readers and the continuity they are use to ends up winning out.

 

[Havok83]

no it really doesn't negate anything.. it just means marvel was playing it safe. once you reboot.. you reboot..

the ultimate universe allowed them to experiment.. and when it did kick off there were alot of rumors and speculation at the time that it would be the main stay at some point.

what exactly do you think happens when you gain more new readers than you have old? the new readers and the continuity they are use to ends up winning out.

rumors which didnt pan out. There were rumors of the same thing now with SW. Internet chatter is just that.

What happens as you keep both around, which is what Marvel did and it worked out for them. Besides its not like readership is mutually exclusive. Longtime readers WERE reading Ultimate books. Id take a guess and say they were the ones primarily buying the things. I never touched Avengers before, yet I was reading Ultimates. Big X-men fan who read and actually preferred Ultimate X-men after just finishing up the crappy Claremont run on the main 616 books

 

[chamber-music]

Much of the time travel, alternate universe and near constant relaunching stuff is what I think makes the Marvel comics hard to follow sometimes. If they could just chill on some of that stuff then they would be a ok.

I don't think Marvel needs to completely reboot their comic universe. The new Iron Man and Doctor Strange books for example are very new reader friendly.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

rumors which didnt pan out. There were rumors of the same thing now with SW. Internet chatter is just that.

What happens as you keep both around, which is what Marvel did and it worked out for them. Besides its not like readership is mutually exclusive. Longtime readers WERE reading Ultimate books. Id take a guess and say they were the ones primarily buying the things. I never touched Avengers before, yet I was reading Ultimates. Big X-men fan who read and actually preferred Ultimate X-men after just finishing up the crappy Claremont run on the main 616 books

im just saying it was an experimentation is all... nothing really more, nothing really less... Marvel just wanted to "see how it went"

that's my opinion and i'm sticking to it.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, no one disputes that Marvel didn't reboot. That's obvious. The question is whether the Ultimate imprint was intended as a backdoor reboot if it was more successful than the 616 continuity.

 

[Havok83]

Digging the Xfactor homage