X3 defenders thread

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Are you sure about this? I was sure he had some kind of radar/thermal imaging picture which showed the jet underground as he then explained 'it comes out from under the basketball court.'

I am sure as he drops the photo it is closer to the camera than everything else, meaning it was in air at that point.

Deviations aside, X2 was a far better story than the frantic mess that was X3. X3 had two huge story lines in a 90 minute movie while at the same time introducing new characters and continuing to build on old ones. X3 was a mindless summer action movie. X2 had substance and depth. X3 also represented the culmination of bad characterization and topped it off by going over board.

Sums up my feelings exactly.

 

[cronosred]

Deviations aside, X2 was a far better story than the frantic mess that was X3. X3 had two huge story lines in a 90 minute movie while at the same time introducing new characters and continuing to build on old ones. X3 was a mindless summer action movie. X2 had substance and depth. X3 also represented the culmination of bad characterization and topped it off by going over board.

I felt X3 had depth like Cyclops mourning Jean which made him unable to lead the X-Men, Bobby being torn between the girl he can't touch and the one he can, Rogue making a life changing decision, Mystique forced to have her life changed, Wolverine having to step up and be a leader after a lifetime of running, The X-kids having to go into battle for the first time of their lives, and Jean who's powers became so out of control she killed two of the people she loved most among many others which leads her to sacrifice herself to protect everyone that's left. And as for characterization I feel at the very least it was on par with the first movie

 

[Chris Wallace]

You left out Magneto being viewed as the mutant Messiah he'd always thought he was, as he'd been proven right about the "cure".

 

[chaseter]

I felt X3 had depth like Cyclops mourning Jean which made him unable to lead the X-Men, Bobby being torn between the girl he can't touch and the one he can, Rogue making a life changing decision, Mystique forced to have her life changed, Wolverine having to step up and be a leader after a lifetime of running, The X-kids having to go into battle for the first time of their lives, and Jean who's powers became so out of control she killed two of the people she loved most among many others which leads her to sacrifice herself to protect everyone that's left. And as for characterization I feel at the very least it was on par with the first movie

Except those moments lasted for 1 minute because of Ratner's ADHD. Xavier dies, 2 minute funeral then it's off to battle X-Men!!! Cyclops dies but nobody gives a ****!!! Rogue, Wolverine, Storm, Mystique, Magneto, and the Juggernaut were butchered to death character wise and the story had more holes than a swiss cheese factory.

X3 wasn't terrible no...but it could have been so much better and it is in no way near X2. I will say that X3 was more enjoyable than SM3 though so thumbs up for that

 

[Rac]

I liked the outfit Storm was wearing at the Alkali lake.

Now I'm out ->

 

[Raivynn]

My only major gripe is that they should have focussed on one story instead of cramming in two.
That and no firebird

 

[echostation]

X-3 was an outright tragedy of a film, it wasn't bad per say but the reason why I hate this film so much is cuz of how much it crapped all over the comics and was incredibly disappointing... It's one thing if it were a bad film, but I hate it when films are just so damn disappointing, and this goes with X-3 and SR... Summer 2006 was the worst for comic book films

Crappy choreographed action, ****** dialog, ADHD story telling, completely ruining characters (this was meant to be Cyke's story, not bloody Wolverine), deaths of main characters galore, it just completely ruined things. horrible.

the good? the technical credits, form and special effects... that's it... that's really it, even the acting at many places was haggard, with hardly any effort on screen and poor.

 

[X-Maniac]

X-3 was an outright tragedy of a film, it wasn't bad per say but the reason why I hate this film so much is cuz of how much it crapped all over the comics and was incredibly disappointing...

I don't think the moan about 'crapping over the comics' is a good argument. All comic-book movies make changes from the source. Changes are needed. The Dark Knight is based on several comic book stories but doesn't follow any particular one - and Two-Face was nothing like the comic and was created and killed in one movies, just like Joker was in Tim Burton's Batman from 1989, and just like Green Goblin was in the first Spider-Man.

It's ridiculous to expect a film to be exactly the same as the comics. It wouldn't work.

I think the new Watchmen movie proves this. A superb movie for geeks but not that accessible for the mainstream (check the reviews) and thus it's not doing incredibly well at the box office. It's great as a nerdgasm, but for the mainstream it's not very accessible.

The X-Men movies have always made departures from the comics. In the comic book version of the cure story, it was created by an alien called Ord from the body of Colossus; in the animated series, it was created by Apocalypse. Clearly, neither of those things were going to happen.

As for the Phoenix story, most of the comic book stuff with the Shi'ar, consuming an entire sun. etc, wouldn't work, so that had to be cut out. Cyclops' death is a questionable thing but Marsden showed how really keen he was to appear in X3 when he signed on to film Singer's SR on the other side of the world!

Crappy choreographed action, ****** dialog, ADHD story telling, completely ruining characters (this was meant to be Cyke's story, not bloody Wolverine), deaths of main characters galore, it just completely ruined things.

I don't think it was ever going to be Cyke's story. You can tell from way back in the first film that Wolverine was always the main character.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I have my gripes with X-Men: The Last Stand (I hate having Cyclops and Xavier killed off, I hate the curing of Rogue, I hate the lack of development with Jean Grey / Phoenix, I hate Angel just randomly appearing when needed, and not being an actual member of the team, and I hate switching the subbasement speech from the Iceman "we're not kids anymore" to Wolverine's "we're X-Men, all of us" version).

That said, my feelings regarding this movie are still the same as it has always been. I feel it is the best of the trilogy, while at the same time being the worst of the trilogy.

It is the worst of the trilogy for the things that I stated above.

It is the best of the trilogy for these reasons:

-Beast is one of my all time favorite characters, and he was brought to life flawlessly.

-The movie version of Magneto continued to be brilliant. In X-Men and X2 we've seen his class and elegance, but by this movie we see him as a man of action, finally putting into effect everything that he's been going on about since the first film.

Magneto's 2 speeches were magnificent. His television terror threat was something straight off the pages of the comic books. His inner conflict with being Xavier's best friend and greatest enemy was captured perfectly in his lecture to Pyro. His trying to manipulate Jean to do his will was perfectly in character. And his effortless destruction of the Golden Gate Bridge has that perfect Magneto swagger.

-We finally got to see things we've been wanting since the beginning, like the Danger Room, Sentinels (I do hate that Sentinels were IN the Danger Room and not part of the real conflict, but other than that it's cool).

-Much of the action is brilliantly put together. Angel's escape from the Worthington building, Juggernaut chasing Kitty through the Alcatraz complex, the X-Men entrance into the final battle, the entire final sequence with Jean. To me all of this stuff is brilliantly put together.

-I know people complain about the character depth, and it's definitely not on the level of X-Men or X2, but I disagree that there is no character depth. We see Cyclops' struggle with Jean's death, and still hearing her voices, the scene between Jean and Wolverine in the infirmary is awesome, as stated we see a good touch of Magneto's conflict between being Xavier's best friend and worst enemy. The character depth is not what I expected it to be when everyone involved with the film went on and on about how all the characters had difficult decisions to make and such, but it's there.

All in all, I can't flat out call it the best of the trilogy, because it does certain things so horribly wrong.

But I do feel that when the movie is clicking and working right, it's the best of the 3. It just doesn't have the consistency throughout, and when it's not working, it can get pretty ugly.

 

[echostation]

My biggest thing is not to obviously follow the Shiar and that whole soryline obviously for believability and budget reasons but for me, the biggest saving grace of the film WOULD have been NO DAMN wolverine to do all the work at the end and save Jean Grey... don't kill Cyke, have Cyke there in the final battle kicking ass and giving orders and have him ultimately be the one to reach Jean... it's called X-men for a reason, not Wolverine and The X-men... make it a damn team effort and THATS how the film pisses all over the comics and I even blame Singer in that aspect due to his pathetic set up and handling of Rogue which was only made 100x worse in this film.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I don't think the moan about 'crapping over the comics' is a good argument. All comic-book movies make changes from the source. Changes are needed. The Dark Knight is based on several comic book stories but doesn't follow any particular one - and Two-Face was nothing like the comic and was created and killed in one movies, just like Joker was in Tim Burton's Batman from 1989, and just like Green Goblin was in the first Spider-Man.

It's ridiculous to expect a film to be exactly the same as the comics. It wouldn't work.

I think the new Watchmen movie proves this. A superb movie for geeks but not that accessible for the mainstream (check the reviews) and thus it's not doing incredibly well at the box office. It's great as a nerdgasm, but for the mainstream it's not very accessible.

The X-Men movies have always made departures from the comics. In the comic book version of the cure story, it was created by an alien called Ord from the body of Colossus; in the animated series, it was created by Apocalypse. Clearly, neither of those things were going to happen.

As for the Phoenix story, most of the comic book stuff with the Shi'ar, consuming an entire sun. etc, wouldn't work, so that had to be cut out. Cyclops' death is a questionable thing but Marsden showed how really keen he was to appear in X3 when he signed on to film Singer's SR on the other side of the world!




I don't think it was ever going to be Cyke's story. You can tell from way back in the first film that Wolverine was always the main character.

Difference between Watchmen and X-Men is that Watchmen doesn't need a sequel. X-Men has so many stories, characters, and concepts to explore that comparing the two is apples and oranges.

 

[Archangel_Death]

The obvious difference between Watchmen (film) and the X-Men Trilogy, is that the Watchmen (film) is > than the X-Men Triology.

 

[Theweepeople]

It's ridiculous to expect a film to be exactly the same as the comics. It wouldn't work.

Agreed.

I think the new Watchmen movie proves this. A superb movie for geeks but not that accessible for the mainstream (check the reviews) and thus it's not doing incredibly well at the box office. It's great as a nerdgasm, but for the mainstream it's not very accessible.

There is no perfect word for word comic adaptation. Secondly, most rated R comic films rarely make over 80million domestically. Some of the below comic films were even released during the summer and they still performed poorly.



AVP2 41million, Blade 70million, Blade 2 82million, Blade 3 52million, Constantine 75.9million, The Crow 50million, The Crow 2 17.9million,
From Hell 31.6million, A history of violence 31.5million, Judge Dredd 34.6million, The Punisher 33.8mil, Punisher War Zone 8million, Road to Perdition 104million, Sin City 74million, Spawn 54.8million, Tank Girl 4million, Timecop 44.8million, V for Vendatta 70.5million, Wanted 134million, 300 210million.

Of the rated R comic book films released in the past 20 years only 3 grossed over 100 million domestically. I found 300's success to be quite baffling. A rated R comic released in march that most mainstream audiences have never heard of. Rated R movies rarely gross over 200million domestically. I don't understand why any of us should have expected an unknown Rated R comic with a modest release date to make the money 300 made. A summer release date might have been better but, certaintly wouldn't have guaranteed financial success.

 

[X-Maniac]

Agreed.



There is no perfect word for word comic adaptation. Secondly, most rated R comic films rarely make over 80million domestically. Some of the below comic films were even released during the summer and they still performed poorly.



AVP2 41million, Blade 70million, Blade 2 82million, Blade 3 52million, Constantine 75.9million, The Crow 50million, The Crow 2 17.9million,
From Hell 31.6million, A history of violence 31.5million, Judge Dredd 34.6million, The Punisher 33.8mil, Punisher War Zone 8million, Road to Perdition 104million, Sin City 74million, Spawn 54.8million, Tank Girl 4million, Timecop 44.8million, V for Vendatta 70.5million, Wanted 134million, 300 210million.

Of the rated R comic book films released in the past 20 years only 3 grossed over 100 million domestically. I found 300's success to be quite baffling. A rated R comic released in march that most mainstream audiences have never heard of. Rated R movies rarely gross over 200million domestically. I don't understand why any of us should have expected an unknown Rated R comic with a modest release date to make the money 300 made. A summer release date might have been better but, certaintly wouldn't have guaranteed financial success.

You're quite right that the adult rating of Watchmen is a factor - but it's had a lot of negative reviews and also reports of audience walk-outs and that must be largely due to the film's content. I don't think a lot of people realised it was a no-holds-barred deconstruction and subversion of the superhero genre. A cool action-oriented trailer might have given a somewhat misleading idea....and the general public expectation of a comic book movie is something kid-friendly and fun.

 

[danoyse]

The general audience reaction to Watchmen was pretty obvious in the weekend grosses - a big Friday and then big dropoffs Saturday and Sunday, falling slightly below expectations for the weekend. Means word of mouth wasn't very good.

Now David Hayter is apparently begging fans to come back this weekend to avoid that huge 2nd weekend dropoff, according to this article: http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/03/1...pen-letter-urging-fans-to-see-the-film-again/

I thought Watchmen was great, but I can totally see why people who haven't read the comic wouldn't like it.

 

[Star]

X3 was so bad that I saw it for six dollars in a clearance bin and I STILL didn't buy it.

 

[X-Maniac]

The general audience reaction to Watchmen was pretty obvious in the weekend grosses - a big Friday and then big dropoffs Saturday and Sunday, falling slightly below expectations for the weekend. Means word of mouth wasn't very good.

Now David Hayter is apparently begging fans to come back this weekend to avoid that huge 2nd weekend dropoff, according to this article: http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/03/1...pen-letter-urging-fans-to-see-the-film-again/

I thought Watchmen was great, but I can totally see why people who haven't read the comic wouldn't like it.

Yes, I saw that article in its original place on Hardcore Nerdity, and indeed I also blogged about it. Don't give any more publicity to the dreadful MTV Splashpage than is necessary!

I also thought Watchmen was great, an excellent combination of kick-ass action and intelligent complexity. But I wouldn't expect all superhero movies to follow that formula. Watchmen is very different to anything else out there.

My review of it is here

My discussion of unfamiliar folk being shocked/put off is here

And my own report on Hayter's open letter and plea to fans is here

More interestingly, I've also carried pieces on Fox's plans to reboot Fantastic Four and on Hugh Jackman's magazine interview on Wolverine. The Wolverine piece was independently spotted and quoted in the Wolverine forums.

 

[chaseter]

X3 was so bad that I saw it for six dollars in a clearance bin and I STILL didn't buy it.

I love how they still try and charge 25-30 bucks for the X3 bluray. Everytime I see it I laugh. I would never buy it but I know Fox will only make X1 and X2 come in a trilogy pack and charge more But X2 alone is worth that price...

 

[BMM]

X-Men, X2, and The Last Stand Blu-ray DVDs are being sold separately as well as in a trilogy pack.

 

[chaseter]

X-Men, X2, and The Last Stand Blu-ray DVDs are being sold separately as well as in a trilogy pack.

Well thank you Fox

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

AVP2 41million, Blade 70million, Blade 2 82million, Blade 3 52million, Constantine 75.9million, The Crow 50million, The Crow 2 17.9million,
From Hell 31.6million, A history of violence 31.5million, Judge Dredd 34.6million, The Punisher 33.8mil, Punisher War Zone 8million, Road to Perdition 104million, Sin City 74million, Spawn 54.8million, Tank Girl 4million, Timecop 44.8million, V for Vendatta 70.5million, Wanted 134million, 300 210million.

I know that it's only one film on your list, but I really don't consider AVP to be a comic book movie.

The comics are based off of the original Alien and Predator movies. The comics aren't original works.

AVP is based off of Alien and Predator, the same thing the comics are based off of.

That's like saying if they come out with a Lord of the Rings comic, that The Hobbit coming out next year or whenever is a comic book movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

My biggest thing is not to obviously follow the Shiar and that whole soryline obviously for believability and budget reasons but for me, the biggest saving grace of the film WOULD have been NO DAMN wolverine to do all the work at the end and save Jean Grey... don't kill Cyke, have Cyke there in the final battle kicking ass and giving orders and have him ultimately be the one to reach Jean... it's called X-men for a reason, not Wolverine and The X-men... make it a damn team effort and THATS how the film pisses all over the comics

Definately agreed with all of this, I love Wolverine, but I grew to HATE him as a character in X3, it was just overload, and not in a good way. Give Wolverine a big role by all means, he is one of the main attractions to X-Men, bot dont give him jobs that are meant to be for other characters, ESPECIALLY in The Pheonix Saga.

and I even blame Singer in that aspect due to his pathetic set up and handling of Rogue which was only made 100x worse in this film.

Dont agree with this, Rogue was set up as a more confident person in X2 that was continually growing in confidence, right up until she was in an X-Suit at the end in the White House standing proud. Unfortunately in X3 they just threw all of that out of the window and basically **** on the character.

 

[cronosred]

Dont agree with this, Rogue was set up as a more confident person in X2 that was continually growing in confidence, right up until she was in an X-Suit at the end in the White House standing proud. Unfortunately in X3 they just threw all of that out of the window and basically **** on the character.

I still love that she got her suit and became a full fledged member of the X-Men on their flight to Washington. Honestly the only time I felt Rogue had any confidence in the entire trilogy was in X-2 when she was going to go after Magneto in the X-Jet after he made the comment about liking what she did with her hair.

 

[Chris Wallace]

My only major gripe is that they should have focussed on one story instead of cramming in two.
That and no firebird

Wouldn't have happened if there hadn't been all this pressure to end the series.

 

[Halcohol]

I enjoyed the movie. I don't understand all the hate. If anything, I just wish they hadn't felt the need to finalize everything, as has become the norm for Marvel 3rd acts.