Sequels X4, spinoffs, or a begins movie?

[L0ngsh0t]

granted you can't make everything perfect, but how closer where batman begins and spider man to the comics then the xmen where? miles and miles and miles closer while spider man was in the right neighborhood, xmen was half way to the moon

 

[GL1]

Prequel, every day of the week... a proper one that ties into X1, but I definitely want to see Cyclops and Jean done right, Storm as the extra-bohemian new girl, with Beast making his descent into beastliness while Cyclops rises to the occasion and Xavier is inspired. For villains Magneto and his kids, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, possibly with Havok and or Polaris mixed in for good cross-stories. Cyclops is my fave character, and that's who I want to see... especially since there's quite a few notable x-villains other than Mangeto, sentinels and stryker that could be dealt with...

 

[ronster]

good idea, but doubt it would happen. i think we need to go forward with xmen, i want to see sinister, and apocalypse. well so does everyone else.

 

[GreatWhiteWhale]

I think X4 is likely IF there is enough of a reaction to this one and it's not all praise for Hugh and Halle.

Then I think Fox will consider that the X-Men is a franchise that is not sustained by two actors or one 'badass' character. And they will let it continue.

Who knows, even if we get everything we want with X3, there is still plenty the fans are left waiting for - Havok, Polaris, Bishop, Gambit, Jubilee as an X-Man, Dazzler, Cannonball, Emma Frost, Hellfire Club, Sinister, Apocalypse, Archangel.
And about a thousand other things.

It wouldn't surprise me if the franchise continued after this, but it really depends on the reaction to the new film, while it seems likely that X3 will make a bundle, through merchandise and DVD sales alone, the Box Office is a different and highly unpredictable entity.

Alot of analysists determined that the weaker than expected response to Batman Begins heralded the beginning of the end for the comic book film cycle, a film which pleased the fans and critics but seemed to dissapoint the general audience. And then Fantastic Four came out, which dissapointed the critics and fans, but pleased the general audience.

It seems alot is being done to get everything about X3 right. It had to come out within three years of the release of X2 because that is the new Hollywood window for sequels (crazy I know, complain to the studios), it had to be bigger, bolder, and pander to the fans while at the same time cementing itself as a favourite film franchise for the 'non-geek' movie going public. It had to be a 'comic book' movie but at the same time be a film that a normal person would not be intimidated or embarassed about viewing. It had to maintain the tone of the previous films while at the same time slowly edge towards being less contained. We can only hope that the X-Franchise continues on it's winning streak and gets the magical trifecta, by pleasing fans, critics and general audience. We can only hope that it organically infuses all it's tried and true elements of emotion, science fiction, realism, action, humour and strong characterization, while maintaing interesting and relevant plots and hitting that epic, inspiring and colourful note that made the Lord of the Rings films so popular. We can only hope that this film makes sense within the universe that Bryan Singer created, and that the new writer(s) and director haven't shifted the third film just a little bit of place.

And if, if it doesn't all go exactly as it should have, or we wanted it to, we can only hope that the general public eats it up because that means we might have another chance to see it done right a little on down the road.

This film is walking a very fine edge, it could be monstered by the fans and critics alike and ignored by the general public. It could get everything right but lack the heart that made the other films so approvable. It might be suffocated under an avalanche of promotion and advertising and bore the general public before they even view it.

This film has to get it right if we want sequels. Jackman's already proved bankable and there should be some quick cash out of a lower budget spinoff, but if this franchise is to make money, it needs to prove that it can stand on the strength of ALL it's elements, and the cash return has to be worthwhile to the studio.

Because more stories to tell does not necessarily mean more movies that sell.



Wow. That Rant was huge and unstructured. I think I need something to eat and to go do something constructive. Cya guys.

 

[Mr. Sinister05]

That was a very well-written post "Great-White Whale".

However, one thing that I found somewhat disagreable is that a film needs to pander to fans, critics, and the general audience alike. While this is true for making a profit. Too often trying to satisfy all 3 only dilutes the film.

If a film is going to be truly great, it needs to stand on it's own and not worry about a lame funny comment (like "Do you know what happens to a Toad when it gets struck by lightning"?) to instill humor into a film at inappropriate times to catch the attention of popcorn munchers or forcing in a love interest to appeal to women.
Movies that are marketed to as wide a demographic as possible are often the flashy summer blockbusters that have no substance. Therefore, what I'd have to say is as a fan, I don't think it's beneficial to the movie to be overly concerned about what some general audience thinks.

Yes, the movie needs to earn money. However, taking risks often makes a movie stand out and reap more money than expected.

 

[GreatWhiteWhale]

That's true.

A film can't be everything to everyone.

However, the first two X-Men films were widely accepted by the Fans, Critics and General Audience.

And as the films have progressed, the fans have become much more demanding as have the critics and the general audience.

I hope the new film can keep with that previous trend without losing any substance.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

its the first mega anticipated hot ticket kid blockbuster of the summer( i doubt the davinci code will get the kids in the seats, and i think Mission impossible has alot of redeeming to do from the mi2 fiasco) it will make money, its only being made for like 100 million or so, i would be suprised if it dosent make that in a week, the movie will make money...as for the pleasing all 3 critcs fans and general audience...i ask another question, why can't it, you say you shouldn't be concernded with pleasing all three, why? the spidermans seem to have no problem doing that, batman begins made over 200 million so i think its safe to assume that covered all three, the lower budget hellboy did it for its little profile, blad suits all three, why can't we expect xmen to do the same, i think your only hurtting your movie going experience if you don't harp on it from the beginning...

p.s. incase anyone thinks from my rye comments about this series of movies that i in no way am not looking forward to x3 you are thinking wrong, i give the xmen movies the hardest time of all of the comic book movies cause i have been reading these comics since before i could read, they are my favorite heros and stories and villans of all time and i was incredibley dissapointed with the first, the second one kind of redeemed itself, but choosing such a non villan like stryker, and on top of everything making him in charge of weapon x, which he wasn't...i dunno sorry for the post comment rant i get carried away...i just really like these characters and stories and would like to see it done right

 

[X-Maniac]

its the first mega anticipated hot ticket kid blockbuster of the summer( i doubt the davinci code will get the kids in the seats, and i think Mission impossible has alot of redeeming to do from the mi2 fiasco) it will make money, its only being made for like 100 million or so, i would be suprised if it dosent make that in a week, the movie will make money...as for the pleasing all 3 critcs fans and general audience...i ask another question, why can't it, you say you shouldn't be concernded with pleasing all three, why? the spidermans seem to have no problem doing that, batman begins made over 200 million so i think its safe to assume that covered all three, the lower budget hellboy did it for its little profile, blad suits all three, why can't we expect xmen to do the same, i think your only hurtting your movie going experience if you don't harp on it from the beginning...

p.s. incase anyone thinks from my rye comments about this series of movies that i in no way am not looking forward to x3 you are thinking wrong, i give the xmen movies the hardest time of all of the comic book movies cause i have been reading these comics since before i could read, they are my favorite heros and stories and villans of all time and i was incredibley dissapointed with the first, the second one kind of redeemed itself, but choosing such a non villan like stryker, and on top of everything making him in charge of weapon x, which he wasn't...i dunno sorry for the post comment rant i get carried away...i just really like these characters and stories and would like to see it done right

What works in comics written as long ago as the early 1960s doesn't necessarily work on screen. A movie has one story to tell in two hours, so the comicbook events have to be changed, missed out, condensed, adapted.

I agree some characters could have been improved. We've all talked about that for the past seven years, since the first X-movie was under production.

I've been reading the comics for more than 30 years, so I am well aware of the background. I found the comics improved my reading and writing skills as a child. Unfortunately, that obviously didn't happen with you and I find your posts very hard to wade through. Please note there is no such word as 'ludacris' - that's the name of some R&B/rap star. The word is ludicrous.

 

[GreatWhiteWhale]

its the first mega anticipated hot ticket kid blockbuster of the summer( i doubt the davinci code will get the kids in the seats, and i think Mission impossible has alot of redeeming to do from the mi2 fiasco) it will make money, its only being made for like 100 million or so, i would be suprised if it dosent make that in a week, the movie will make money...as for the pleasing all 3 critcs fans and general audience...i ask another question, why can't it, you say you shouldn't be concernded with pleasing all three, why? the spidermans seem to have no problem doing that, batman begins made over 200 million so i think its safe to assume that covered all three, the lower budget hellboy did it for its little profile, blad suits all three, why can't we expect xmen to do the same, i think your only hurtting your movie going experience if you don't harp on it from the beginning...

p.s. incase anyone thinks from my rye comments about this series of movies that i in no way am not looking forward to x3 you are thinking wrong, i give the xmen movies the hardest time of all of the comic book movies cause i have been reading these comics since before i could read, they are my favorite heros and stories and villans of all time and i was incredibley dissapointed with the first, the second one kind of redeemed itself, but choosing such a non villan like stryker, and on top of everything making him in charge of weapon x, which he wasn't...i dunno sorry for the post comment rant i get carried away...i just really like these characters and stories and would like to see it done right

Part of my point is that the Box Office isn't as predictable as the analysts would like it to be. Although it would be unfair to say that X3 takes more risks than most films, in fact, tried and true franchises like this usually make the most money.
However..
Batman Begins did not do anywhere near as well as it should have or was expected to. This was not a movie that most of the general public enjoyed enough to commit to repeat viewings. In fact, the budget for the sequels was lowered considerably to meet profit projection.
In short. If BB had done as well as it was predicted to (and if an accurate budget had been released) then the BB sequels would have alot more money to play with.
Also, Blade did not please the critics. And as a result the film's profit margin suffered. The average movie-goer is more likely to see a movie that is 'spectacular, mind-blowing and a must see' rather than 'Stock standard action film with a few clever moments and some serious letdowns' - In short, better quality control may have meant more money for this film. Also, Like Hellboy, Blade does not pander to a general demographic. Actually, it is directed at young men 15-26, as a result it is not as profitable as other comic book films, but profitable enough to warrant sequels. (Also, Hellboy, as much as it got a lot of things right, was terribly edited) These films could not be regarded 'cash cows' like other comic franchises.
In a strange reversal, Fantastic Four met projections, except it was not universally accepted by critics or fans. In fact, alot of FF fans hated the movie. As a result, while it has made money, it has lost alot of it's core fan-base and that is not healthy for a developing franchise. But who knows? The Fantastic Four franchise may improve tenfold, or it may prove that the Studo Execs really know what we enjoy and that us movie-goers really don't know ****.
Spider-Man, like the previous X-Men, is the crown jewel of comic book movies in terms of universal sucess. The profit margin on Spider-Man 2 was considerable. And thus Spider-Man 3 is being treated as a pedigree because of the money it stands to bring to the studio.
X-Men 3 is similar. EXCEPT it may not meet the anticipated margin hoped for ny FOX. A sucessful X-Men movie is much harder to do than a sucessful spider-man film, mostly due to the fact that X-Men is an ensemble piece and harder to therefore harder to maintain, also the troubled pre-production has not helped.
As the X-Men franchise grows and it becomes even more difficult for the studio to meet the expectations of it's key demographics, and the cast and crew provide their own complications, Fox may begin to question exactly how valuable it is to their profit building enterprises.
I loved all the films above (except for possibly Fantastic Four, which I'm only partial too), but it IS important for blockbuster comic book films and especially the new X-Men films to have universal success. Film Genre's run in cycles, and there is a danger of the comic book film cycle quieting before us core fans are wholly satisfied. I repeat, IT IS important for the new X-Men film to have universal success, and, as the core fans, should we settle for anything else?

In short. It's not that X-Men: The Last Stand won't make 'lots of money'. It's exactly how much 'lots of money' it makes that is important if we want to see sequels.

In even shorter terms. If anyone who loves the franchise watches pirate copy of this film. I will hunt them and **** with their ******* **** **** those ****** *******.

In the shortest terms. I really, desperately hope this film is everything that myself, and everyone else, wants it to be. Beacuse, I love these movies.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

first im going to deal with this walking calamidy, looking to find anyway he can look better then everyone else sloppy ***** xmaniac, and then i will agree with greatwhite whale..Xmanic you ****, you know your beat in the X department so you go after the one thing your classles ass has left, you say your handwritting and grammer is better then mine you also hinted at your age being at least 35 or so, being you said you've been reading comic books for over 30 years, and you probobly had to be at least 5 to read them(unless you where one of the first subjects of the baby genius project) so your pushing middle age, and still *****ing about on these boareds with kids half your age, i am only 18 i'm not sure what your grammer was like when you where 18, but mine, and i would assume not everyones grammer is entirely perfect and when we go to use an adjective that a famous pop icon has popularized, we may sub-contiously slip into the array of using it instead the proper...you sir are the reason that cyclops dosen't have a bigger role, your the reason he only uses his powers when someone knocks his glasses off, or he is under the influnece of strykers formula, you are the reason storm hasn't flown once in two movies, when her first apperance in the comics she was flying, and has done so in almost every comic she has been in, you are everything that is wrong with the people that made these movies thinking they could trick us and cut corners incredibley. all i ask is just take a good look and critic these movies and compare it too the spidermans, blades, batman begins, and hellboys, and see how well those movies got it right, and (for their prodcution budget) they all had success (Great white whale i will acknowledge you in a second) why can't the xmen films be like that?

Great white whale, i agree with everything you said, all of it...i honestly don't think we will see another xmen "team" movie for ten years, or so if the moive dosen't gross 300 million domestically, if it does that, the sky is the limit i think, it would be tought to argue making another...my thing with batman begins is, if you look at the domestic take on it, it's an impressive take 220 was it or so? thats a tone of cash, and more then any of the other sequals made and i think only 30 mil less then that first campy rendition, then you go overseas and its total gross is like 330 million, so now we have doubled the production budget of 160 i think..and then you go dvd sales etc etc...i think batman begins was an interesting comic book movie, cause it was almost word of mouth, i think people where so skeptical about another batman movie(considering the trash burton and schumacher made, who blames them) that it took two weeks and good good reviews for the general public to open up to it...i think that franchise is going to blow up especially once they introduce the joker, and stuff...the same goes for hellboy and blade, for their production budget, they became these cult hits and where very well recived publicly and at least hellboy was critically(Are you positive blade didnt get good reviews, i will belive you cause i have no recolection) and through word of mouth they ended up making money, and now they are ether working on, or already have cashed out on the sequal department, where the true money is made in hollywood...then you have the almighty spiderman, these movies just make me wish sony had bought every comic book right, fantastic from all angels there is no reason comic book movies shouldnt all be made like that, and by that i mean there is no reason all comic book movies shouldn't be made right...i am a firm beliver that if you make it right, it will pay off in the end, spiderman obviously, blade cashed in on the sequals(At least the second one was a cash cow, if i remember right the third one was a slight bust) and hellboy is about to have a huge ass profit of the sequal, and i truley belive if a famous villanless batman can make 220 million, there is no doubt in my mind the joker(Directed by the dark dark chris nolan, who will make him really really sinister unlike his goofy circus preformer predecessor, and i think that will bring even more crictically and public appeal to it) the joker in a movie, they are about to make a tone of money too...so back to xmen i think if they would have made these movies right, (and maybe waited till spiderman came out, before they made it) we would be awaiting one of the greatest motion picture trilogies in the history of cinema(im not ****ing kidding, there is no reason this dosen't rival star wars, lord of the rings, and spiderman etc.) instead, i am highly anticipating this movie, because i think they finally got the right director to show the xmen the way they are supposed to be shown, i am anticipating this movie, because i think they are finally going to get it right. i realize it is alot to ask for, but they should have done there homework, taken notes from the movies that worked(superman, and for x2 spiderman) and those that didnt(Daredevil, Batman, Hulk) i think after sitting on there asses waiting for Logan to become the Wolverine we all know and love has killed the first two movies, they could have easiley accomplised that as a side story, and done it in the first one, while having him go bezerkers...I am so looking forward to X3, more then anyother movie, more then spiderman 3 even though that moive is a shoe-in to be so fantastic, and this one isn't, i still hold the X-men in higher standereds then any comic, they've earned it with their fantasitc stories, villans, subplots, and characters, i just wish they would transfer to screen bettter....

ok i need to stop writting, i honestly hope you guys have stoped reading by now and are half way through your, why L0ngsh0t is a complete idiot posts by now

 

[X-Maniac]

Longshot, I did try to read that very long block of typing, but i admit i did give up... Surely you don't present your college work or other written material like that!?

My age is irrelevant, except it means I have read a lot more X-Men than many others on here, and experienced a lot more of life as well. There is no achievement in being young - we were all young once.

It's ludicrous to blame me for how the characters have been in the previous X-Men movies, especially when i agree that some of them failed to live up to expectations. There's nothing we can do about that now. Storm got crap dialogue and was weak and mousy, Mystique only uttered one line of dialogue in X1, Cyclops was constantly put down by Wolverine... etc etc...

X3 is doing its best to evolve the characters a step further. What we are seeing with X3 is a movie that can be confident and daring with superheroes because superhero movies are now very popular. Superhero movies weren't popular when the first X-Men was made, so Bryan Singer wasn't given much money (a pathetic $70 million or something like that) and a decision was made to take the movie as far away from Schumacher's colourful, corny Batman disasters as possible... so we got what we got: something serious, very grounded, very un-comicbook. Yes, quite a few things were changed... I can understand why many of them were changed, but I would still have liked quite a few things to have been done differently.
No point going on about it now. It's because of X1's success that Spider-Man was able to come along and be so daring and so exciting... X1 opened the doors to comicbook movies again...

The stories in all three X-movies were taken from the comics and many characters take the essence of their comicbook characters too and make them work in a real-world setting. For instance, although Storm was in many ways too weak and vague, she also does relate to the comicbook version too. Check out this website
http://www.stormxpress.net/hallevsstorm.htm
...you can see what I mean and you can see how it's possible to be positive and enjoy things rather than moaning all the time.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

I apologize, X-Maniac, from now on, I will write all my posts on SHH "fan threads" in the same format that I would write a final essay paper...

three points

1. I chose to blame you because I got carried away on my rant, and you continue to piss me off with your brash cockiness towards your knowledge of X-men (I highly doubt you know enough more then I do, or other fans do, about it to be that absurdly confident) so sorry, unless your name is bryan singer you aren't responsible for x1

2. the original Matrix was made for 70 million...which is the better action movie...and maybe even, which is the better movie? a cool ass action movie can be made for that cash...

and 3. i have seen that storm sight before, its pretty weak, they take one screen shot of her standing next to professor x and are ****ing in their pants "see we told you we where comic to screen save" forget that noise, if she even just flew once in the first two movies it would be hard to give that charater ****...

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, I prefer X-Men to Matrix any day. The first Matrix had a great concept, then each movie after that just didn't really take it anywhere good... I don't own any of the Matrix movies on DVD, I don't feel the urge to have them either... I'd rather see X-Men any day... That's why I'm on here.

I've been wanting us to get new versions of X1 and X2 so that now the superhero movie market is more confident, they can rework all the material and make parts of them stronger... but i doubt that will happen. Bryan is moving on to other things and he'd never let anyone else near his work.

If I'd done X1, I'd have changed a few things, for sure. Storm - better dialogue, better wig, more powerful (I'd have her landing on the snow in her first scene before she blows the blizzard at Sabretooth). Cyclops - more 'grown-up', more experienced. Jean - more powerful. I probably wouldn't have an Iceman/Rogue relationship, if that were possible to change within the structure of the movie. Other than that, I loved the Magneto origin sequence, Magneto's machine and its energy field FX, the jet, the mansion, Mystique (though she should have spoken a little more) and a lot more... all uber-cool and stylish... I don't want mindless action and the scenes from the comics can never be duplicated, at least not from the 60s and 70s comics.

But each of us would change something different. You'd probably change other things.

I don't want to poison my mind into hating the movies. I might wish some things were different, but that's as far as I am going to let myself go. I want to find the pleasure in them. Seven years later, there is no real purpose in going on and on about the bad stuff.

And please do write your threads like a final essay paper - or at least as clearly as your last post. It's a lot easier to understand what you are saying.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

well, this is funny, i think we agree on alot of issues...but really you would take the first matrix over the first x-men, i will respectfully dissagree, the matrix is one of the best hand to hand combat movies in recent memorey..

i don't hate x2 at all, i like the movie, and don't really mind the x-men side of the movie, and its flaws, there is no reason the sentinals shouldn't have been in a movie about a mutant controll agency, etc. etc.

x1 on the other hand, i just don't like that movie, from a movie aspect, it's really anti-climatic, my opinions on the two "leaders of the xmen" have been voiced before and don't need to be rehashed, that is the movie i just watch it and am like...this could be so so so better, so better...

i really look at this as an expeirement to see what can be done, what can't, and what should be done to this franchise, much as the batmans where, and i think this new series of batman movies "Are" the batman franchise, and not the originals

i think what they are looking at right now is the insane fan reaction too certian things, like 5,000 post sentinals thread, the 4,500 post gambit thread when he isn't in the movie, cyclops and storm issues, the weak brotherhood and the negitive reaction toward rogue...they combine that with the stuff that did work. wolverine(could be alot shorter though) Magneto, Xavier, the Blackbird, the Mansion, etc..

i don't want mindless action ether...but what is more mindless then the wolverine vs sabertooth fight, if they had adressed the history and given sabretooth a littl more character, and made both the two the fighters they are in the comics, that fight could have kick a tone of ass, instead of just being cool..

i would rather see the xmen anyday but i still belive the first matrix is the better of the two...and i am looking more towards this then any movie i have ever been able to wait for, over spiderman, episode 3, batman begins, and the trailer looks incredible and i hope and pray it rules

 

[GreatWhiteWhale]

In the past I have found X-Maniac to be a little.. condescending and controlling towards his fellow posters.

But that is an irrelevant point. Usually he has very well thought out and relevant points. Certainly worth listening too, rather than arguing with.

Sometimes if you can stomach the first few frustrations you feel about a person (or poster) and force yourself to be patient, what you can learn from them can be surprising.

It seems this may be what is happening now

 

[L0ngsh0t]

the voice of reason

 

[Angamb]

I want a new trilogy, with all the known characters, and I'm sure we'll ge it, but a spin-off with this team would be really good too:

 

[Deep Thinkin'!]

I would want and x4, x5, x6, no way could they just stop after x3!? That would so not be cool.