You Get A Prize, Honey - The 'Doctor Who' Thread

[RetroNaz]

I dunno. That seems like such a bad business decision. It could potentially destroy a show.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

I am REALLY liking Bill as a companion as the weeks go by... I sure hope she won't be part of the clean slate when Capaldi and Moffat depart by this serie's end... I loved her discussion today with the Doctor about his dealings with death... I want her to remain for awhile...

and Thin Ice had that feel of that old Torchwood episode with the

Spoiler

alien space whale that was being harvested alive...

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Not gonna lie, I don't know why Heaven Sent gets the level of praise that it does. I admire its innovation, but that interesting parts of the episode for me were the "Doctor in the imaginary Tardis" and end scenes.

I didn't care for Heaven Sent as much as others. I appreciate the technical aspects of it and the desire to do something new, with no one but Capaldi on screen. But the overarching importance of Clara throughout the episode (a character I have never really cared for) combined with the four billion year long imprisonment (which is just something I can't help but hung up on for a reason I can't even explain to myself) just kinda spoils the story for me, which makes it hard for me to really enjoy the Doctor.

Capaldi's era will always be defined by the viewers opinion of Clara. Moffat intended 11 and Amy to be this defining thing in each other's lives but in reality, 11 was always the star. The story ended with basically two kids growing up and apart.

12 and Clara were basically a marriage and all the ugliness involved. The first season had the unfortunate aspect of Danny Pink in as a uninteresting threesome. Once he was jettisoned, 12 and Clara became something interesting, imo.

I think it's best for Bill to go with 12. There's nothing about her dynamic that isn't just Rose redux. That's fine following Clara's "look how special I am" but it doesn't really bring anything interesting on it's own.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

So theory on the vault

Spoiler

As penance for the events of Hell Bent, the Doctor promised to keep the Simms' Master locked away for the government of Gallifrey and Missy eventually finds out and boom goes the dynamite.

 

[Sithborg]

I really do love the teacher/student relationship that the Doctor and Bill have going on.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

So theory on the vault

Spoiler

As penance for the events of Hell Bent, the Doctor promised to keep the Simms' Master locked away for the government of Gallifrey and Missy eventually finds out and boom goes the dynamite.

I was thinking something similar. The only thing that would have clinched it for me would have been if [blackout] the knocking at the end of this episode had come in fours. [/blackout]

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

I was thinking something similar. The only thing that would have clinched it for me would have been if [blackout] the knocking at the end of this episode had come in fours. [/blackout]

whoever or whatever is in the vault,

Spoiler

it gave off three series of three knocks and then the final series of knocks was four... but it probably really isn't a clue as to the occupant of the vault...

 

[TheComicbookKid]

whoever or whatever is in the vault,

Spoiler

it gave off three series of three knocks and then the final series of knocks was four... but it probably really isn't a clue as to the occupant of the vault...

[BLACKOUT]The fact that the Doctor is "staying" on Earth similar to the 3rd Doctor's banishment plus the writing on the door is Gallifreyan points to it being the Master.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Syncos]

So theory on the vault

Spoiler

As penance for the events of Hell Bent, the Doctor promised to keep the Simms' Master locked away for the government of Gallifrey and Missy eventually finds out and boom goes the dynamite.

Spoiler

... If Missy is a later regeneration of The Master than she would know where and when The Master was locked up in her own past. I don't know if this works.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Spoiler

... If Missy is a later regeneration of The Master than she would know where and when The Master was locked up in her own past. I don't know if this works.

Spoiler

According to Moffat's Day of the Doctor rules, the Master would have forgotten this event so Missy wouldn't remember until it happens.

 

[Schlosser85]

That last scene made me really feel like it's one of the Masters in the vault.

 

[Matt]

Capaldi's era will always be defined by the viewers opinion of Clara. Moffat intended 11 and Amy to be this defining thing in each other's lives but in reality, 11 was always the star. The story ended with basically two kids growing up and apart.

12 and Clara were basically a marriage and all the ugliness involved. The first season had the unfortunate aspect of Danny Pink in as a uninteresting threesome. Once he was jettisoned, 12 and Clara became something interesting, imo.

I think it's best for Bill to go with 12. There's nothing about her dynamic that isn't just Rose redux. That's fine following Clara's "look how special I am" but it doesn't really bring anything interesting on it's own.

That's fair, and I don't have a problem with Clara per se. I have a problem with the fact that it never felt earned. 5 episodes in and we are told Clara is the woman who gave the Doctor the Tardis and impacted literally every significant event in his timeline. Think about that. Think of the importance that was suddenly thrust on this character we had just met. One episode later, she is the catalyst that convinces the Doctor to save the Time Lords. By the end of her run, she has basically cheated death, become a de facto time lady and has her own TARDIS.

None of it ever felt earned. Such a great deal of importance was put on the character and it all felt forced, not natural or earned. As such, she came off as the ultimate Mary Sue. It read like a character from a bad fan fiction who is meant to be a stand in for the author who is somehow made central to everything.

 

[AlluAllu]

What a great episode. I'm gonna miss Capaldi. That twist was a bold move. I wonder if it'll last.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

That's fair, and I don't have a problem with Clara per se. I have a problem with the fact that it never felt earned. 5 episodes in and we are told Clara is the woman who gave the Doctor the Tardis and impacted literally every significant event in his timeline. Think about that. Think of the importance that was suddenly thrust on this character we had just met. One episode later, she is the catalyst that convinces the Doctor to save the Time Lords. By the end of her run, she has basically cheated death, become a de facto time lady and has her own TARDIS.

None of it ever felt earned. Such a great deal of importance was put on the character and it all felt forced, not natural or earned. As such, she came off as the ultimate Mary Sue. It read like a character from a bad fan fiction who is meant to be a stand in for the author who is somehow made central to everything.

True.

Except that's literally every major female Moffat character until Bill.
River has the distinction of being the Doctor's wife, can pilot the Tardis, knows his true name, love interest, and only half Human/Time Lord to a character that had been basically asexual for most of his history(We still don't know who Susan's mother is). Amy is the mother of his wife and the only companion the Doctor has a deep connection going back to her childhood. Losing her caused him to quit being the Doctor. Usually he just bounces back and keeps moving.

They're all fanfic which is why I guess I find it hard to put any harsher critic on Clara simply as companion than on storylines than I do Amy or River.

That's why have a hard time seeing Bill as so important she can't be replaced. She's what we are used to.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

What a great episode. I'm gonna miss Capaldi. That twist was a bold move. I wonder if it'll last.

It was an amazing episode.

I doubt it, but I think this ep and the next are a spiritual two-parter based on the twist.

Nardole is still annoying.

 

[Schlosser85]

The next three episodes are supposed to be a three parter involving Missy and the new thing called The Monks.

Dunno how I feel about having a blind Doctor now.

 

[Matt]

True.

Except that's literally every major female Moffat character until Bill.
River has the distinction of being the Doctor's wife, can pilot the Tardis, knows his true name, love interest, and only half Human/Time Lord to a character that had been basically asexual for most of his history(We still don't know who Susan's mother is). Amy is the mother of his wife and the only companion the Doctor has a deep connection going back to her childhood. Losing her caused him to quit being the Doctor. Usually he just bounces back and keeps moving.

They're all fanfic which is why I guess I find it hard to put any harsher critic on Clara simply as companion than on storylines than I do Amy or River.

That's why have a hard time seeing Bill as so important she can't be replaced. She's what we are used to.

Well, in fairness, Amy was around for about 16 episodes before she became River's mom. Not to mention, she had been in the doctor's life for about 400 years (from his perspective) before he quit Doctor-ing. She was basically the central figure of the 11th Doctor's life. I think, with all of those factors, she earned her place or at the very least endeared herself to the audience before having her importance crammed down our throats. I don't think you can say that with Clara's five episodes. As to River, she was less a companion and more of a recurring character, so I think its easier to give her a pass (although she has gotten her fair share of backlash).

 

[Schlosser85]

I don't consider River a full companion, more a recurring guest star.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Well, in fairness, Amy was around for about 16 episodes before she became River's mom. Not to mention, she had been in the doctor's life for about 400 years (from his perspective) before he quit Doctor-ing. She was basically the central figure of the 11th Doctor's life. I think, with all of those factors, she earned her place or at the very least endeared herself to the audience before having her importance crammed down our throats. I don't think you can say that with Clara's five episodes. As to River, she was less a companion and more of a recurring character, so I think its easier to give her a pass (although she has gotten her fair share of backlash).

Central figure to one doctor. But the Doctor has a history with so many companions.

The way Moffat wrote all his companions/female characters is that nothing is earned. River is programmed to be obsessed with the Doctor. The idea that it's love is true simple because it makes her special against what any other character has. We meet her and she already loves him. There's no development. She's a kid in a astronaut suit then a teenager then she sacrifices her regeneration energy to save him cause she loves him.

Amy had no life outside of her Raggedy Man and Rory. Her life didn't make sense. The girl with the crack in her wall. He's more central to her life than he is to hers.(He was 1,103 at Lake Silencio cause he ran around avoiding it for 200 years without Amy)

River and Amy compose the entire arc of the 2nd series for 11(And a clone of her took half of it). Without that oh so special Doctor's mom storyline, nothing really differentiates her story to the Doctor from most others except Susan. All based on having sex with Rory in the Tardis.

I'm not defending Clara. She's par for the course in Moffat's tenure. I just can't see the connection between fans( not you but what i've seen on-line) saying the think 12's run is weak but name Listen, Flatline, Heaven Sent-Hell Bent, Asylum, or Zygon Inversion as great eps of NuWho but those episodes gain a lot of their resonance from Clara. I love the episode Midnight from 10s run but that wouldn't be a episode to explain why Donna was a great character.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I liked the latest episode quite a lot. I'm over the whole blind thing, but the [blackout] the dynamic between the Doctor and Missy continues to be super fun. [/blackout]

Can't wait for the next one to give us some more answers on The Monks.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I like the blindness in the sense it brings a reason Nardole actual makes sense as his eyes.

There's a theory floating around that the monks are the Mondasian Cybermen that I hope ends up being true or I'll be sad.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I'm glad the Doctor's eyesight played a crucial role in the story( though I did wonder why he didn't use his glasses to tap into the video on Bill's phone).

 

[CrystalFortress]

I'm glad the Doctor's eyesight played a crucial role in the story( though I did wonder why he didn't use his glasses to tap into the video on Bill's phone).

This was really noticeable to me. Email with Glasses -> Read current positions-> be able to put in the combination.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

This was really noticeable to me. Email with Glasses -> Read current positions-> be able to put in the combination.

I meant more Skype? Facebook live? Twitch? Anything.

 

[Schlosser85]

Are they setting up the reformed Missy versus Saxon?