The Dark Knight Rises Young Ra's Al Ghul - Does it mean flashback, or something else?

[kvz5]

Young Ra's will most likely be related to Talia's story as a kid (supported by the casting of Joey King). Apparently, Joey King was also in India back when Pence and Bale went there for the shoot. If Talia and Bane are related since their youth then it can also serve as Bane's backstory.

No clue where Liam fits in.

 

[batbax]

That's not how things work.

Willing to bet you a fake 10 dollar bill. Bring Ra's al ghul back alive and you undermine what this whole series has been about.

 

[batbax]

Young Ra's will most likely be related to Talia's story as a kid (supported by the casting of Joey King). Apparently, Joey King was also in India back when Pence and Bale went there for the shoot. If Talia and Bane are related since their youth then it can also serve as Bane's backstory.

No clue where Liam fits in.

Dream sequence from Bruce?

 

[KRIM]

Willing to bet you a fake 10 dollar bill. Bring Ra's al ghul back alive and you undermine what this whole series has been about.

I hope this isn't concerning the dreaded realism angle.

 

[batbax]

I hope this isn't concerning the dreaded realism angle.

Oh please dont throw that at me. We both know there are varying degrees of realism and no absolutes. Is it really going too far to assume that in The world Nolans created that having Ra's al ghul be alive suddenly wouldnt look ridiculous? Come on. If thats the case, why not bring Rachel or Harvey back? Im willing to bet if I told you they were coming back you might think its far fetched. And if thats the case then it should be no different with Ras.

 

[kvz5]

Dream sequence from Bruce?

Probably. I really don't know. There's quite a bit of possibilities - dream sequence, flashback to Bruce's LoS training days, flashback to an adult Talia or Bane scene, present time (he's alive), etc.

My bet is that involves Bruce researching/investigating something (maybe Bane or Talia's origins) in whatever India is doubling for and it leads to a flashback involving Neeson as the older Ra's.

 

[KRIM]

Oh please dont throw that at me. We both know there are varying degrees of realism and no absolutes. Is it really going too far to assume that in The world Nolans created that having Ra's al ghul be alive suddenly wouldnt look ridiculous? Come on.

The only one throwing things around is you. I'm certainly not the one going to shout absolutes a year out from release without seeing things in proper context, only to be met with humble pie. If you think the concept has no redeeming value whatsoever, good for you. I like to be more optimist.

I also like to hedge my bets on this film having zero chance of ever flopping no matter how bad it could get (see any follow-up to a high grossing movie).

If thats the case, why not bring Rachel or Harvey back? Im willing to bet if I told you they were coming back you might think its far fetched. And if thats the case then it should be no different with Ras.

It's different precisely because it is Ra's. I don't need to regurgitate the many things he is known for.

 

[batbax]

The only one throwing things around is you. I'm certainly not the one going to shout absolutes a year out from release without seeing things in proper context, only to be met with humble pie. If you think the concept has no redeeming value whatsoever, good for you. I like to be more optimist.

Your the one who said "the dreaded realism angle". Which I found kind of dumb to say because like I said there are varying degrees of realism. And when it comes to things like coming back from the dead(not like Gordon, lol) I think we can somewhat agree that would be a huge departure.

I also like to hedge my bets on this film having zero chance of ever flopping no matter how bad it could get (see any follow-up to a high grossing movie).


It's different precisely because it is Ra's. I don't need to regurgitate the many things he is known for.

Your the one who said "the dreaded realism angle". Which I found kind of dumb to say because like I said there are varying degrees of realism. And when it comes to things like coming back from the dead(not like Gordon, lol) I think we can somewhat agree that would be a huge departure.
Well, the Ra's from the comics is different, yes. I dont think thats what we are dealing with here. Where was he in TDK? Again, Biding his time? LOL.But like I said, given what we know about the way Nolan has run his movies, Id say its as close to an absolute as you can get a year away from release that Ras wont be alive in this film. But agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[batbax]

Probably. I really don't know. There's quite a bit of possibilities - dream sequence, flashback to Bruce's LoS training days, flashback to an adult Talia or Bane scene, present time (he's alive), etc.

My bet is that involves Bruce researching/investigating something (maybe Bane or Talia's origins) in whatever India is doubling for and it leads to a flashback involving Neeson as the older Ra's.

much much more likely than him actually being alive.

 

[KRIM]

Your the one who said "the dreaded realism angle". Which I found kind of dumb to say because like I said there are varying degrees of realism. And when it comes to things like coming back from the dead(not like Gordon, lol) I think we can somewhat agree that would be a huge departure.

All I'm saying is that fans have been wrong about the realism thing, dating back to the early days of TDK. Doesn't matter what we perceive to be the "line" that is not to be crossed. At the end of the day it's Nolan's call, as it should, as it's his world. There was a point in time where people were certain about facets of Joker and Two-Face that had been disproven. Also a near universal assurance that the likes of Bane would never surface in this franchise. Things change.

Where was he in TDK? Again, Biding his time? LOL.

Honestly, who cares? If he's alive, didn't matter because he's not relevant to the story they're telling. Joker existed at the time of BB but never showed up anywhere. If the final card scene were omitted, would you be questioning his presence in TDK? I never got the need to showcase every individual and setting for every story, as to justify that they still exist.

But like I said, given what we know about the way Nolan has run his movies, Id say its as close to an absolute as you can get a year away from release that Ras wont be alive in this film. But agree to disagree I suppose.

I personally have no preference as to his inclusion. I'm interested in his revival simply because I'm a fan of the character and it would throw everyone in a frenzy. But if not, no biggie.

 

[batbax]

All I'm saying is that fans have been wrong about the realism thing, dating back to the early days of TDK. Doesn't matter what we perceive to be the "line" that is not to be crossed. At the end of the day it's Nolan's call, as it should, as it's his world. There was a point in time where people were certain about facets of Joker and Two-Face that had been disproven. Also a near universal assurance that the likes of Bane would never surface in this franchise. Things change.


Honestly, who cares? If he's alive, didn't matter because he's not relevant to the story they're telling. Joker existed at the time of BB but never showed up anywhere. If the final card scene were omitted, would you be questioning his presence in TDK? I never got the need to showcase every individual and setting for every story, as to justify that they still exist.


I personally have no preference as to his inclusion. I'm interested in his revival simply because I'm a fan of the character and it would throw everyone in a frenzy. But if not, no biggie.

Fair enough. Ra's is a major, major character. Lets just pretend he is alive and coming back. How would he be included into this story? I mean, we have Bane, talia, catwoman, bruce, etc etc... Are we to believe that if he really is alive that he would not play an integral part in this story? Im kind of curious about your answer because you said itd be cool if he was back. Im not busting your balls at all Im just really fascinated. I honestly cant think of any way of him being alive without making things very very convoluted and messy. Forgetting the realism thing, this is another very blatant reason why I think hes not alive. But im open to ideas. besides the fact that this would obviously make Ra's immortal. Lets think about this. this would easily make him batmans most unbeatable and overwhelming enemy....Ra's WOULD win. Or am I totally missing something?

 

[Carnotaur3]

It's different precisely because it is Ra's. I don't need to regurgitate the many things he is known for.

I won't regurgitate the "realism" but let's just say the series is based on "logic" and "logically" Ra's living doesn't make one but of sense.

 

[I'm Not a Hero]

I can only assume you think the entire Ra's character in the comics is also "Cheeseball" since he always manages to survive these sorts of deaths.

Well dont assume because I'm only talking about the movie. Comics=\= movies. I don't want to find out he survived that train wreck. I mean..... really??
Not saying it's the worst thing in the world I would just rather him be dead with Talia and Bane carrying his legacy.

 

[batbax]

Joker: "I think you and I are destined to do this forever"
Ra's: "Noooo you clown, Im back. Batman dont listen to him. You and I are REALLY destined to do this forever..Well, at least until you die of old age and I remain here on earth continually hatching plans to destroy gotham."



please.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Joker: "You and I are destined to do this together".

Batman: "I'm gonna go die now , while you continue to hatch plans to destroy Gotham."

Just seemed relevant in knocking out two birds with one stone.

 

[batbax]

lol wut

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Batman shouldn't die, R'as hopefully won't return, but he definitely, definitely could.

 

[batbax]

Batman shouldn't die, R'as hopefully won't return, but he definitely, definitely could.

I assume your comparing batman dieing to Ra's coming bac from the dead. Yeah, not even close to the same thing. One is logically possible in Nolans batman, the other is not. And no, I disagree that Ra's could definitely return. This would as I said, forgetting all the realism things, make him unbeatable and by far batmans most powerful enemy. Whats the point? He cant be killed, so even if batman "defeats him" he will just wait him out til his mortality takes hold lol. Soooo Lame I cant even believe people think its a remote possibility.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Do you have no knowledge of Batman's rogues? R'as Al Ghul is his most powerful enemy. Plus, he can die, he's just careful not too, he was dead for several years too until an editorial mandate said he had to come back, and it retconned new parts to his history.

 

[batbax]

Do you have no knowledge of Batman's rogues? R'as Al Ghul is his most powerful enemy. Plus, he can die, he's just careful not too, he was dead for several years too until an editorial mandate said he had to come back, and it retconned new parts to his history.

I have plenty of knowledge of them. Ra's is what he is in the comics. Not in these movies. So, again, tell me how Theyll explain away Ra's coming back from the dead(and lets be clear, theres no way he didnt die in that train crash) being immortal, and how is batman supposed to win? Seeing as these are movies set in a pretty realistic world, someone like Ra's cant lose. No way, no how. Unless your going to tell me that batman becomes immortal too? In which case then we are totally going off the deep end in this 3rd film and turning it into something totally irrelevant to what has been proposed in the first 2 films. Stop confusing the comics with these films. Im well aware what Ra's is or isnt in the comics. Its impossible for Ra's of the comics to be the same in nolans films, unless, like I said, batman will be defeated in the end and Ra's lives on. Thats the only conclusion that can come from having an immortal Ra's in these movies. If Im wrong Id love to hear why. But I bet all Im gonna hear is how hes been ressurected many times in the comics, which is TOTALLY irrelevant.

 

[batbax]

Also, to go further, plenty of comic characters in batmans mythos have died then "come back" in later issues. THats not what we are discussing. Poeple are saying Ra's can come back and is different than two face or rachel dying because he is "immortal"..so thats what im basing my argument on. Im certain that if the Joker had died in the last film the same way Ra's did in begins, you wouldnt even think twice about him coming back. Only reason some are considering it is because in the comics he has that ability.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I have plenty of knowledge of them. Ra's is what he is in the comics. Not in these movies. So, again, tell me how Theyll explain away Ra's coming back from the dead(and lets be clear, theres no way he didnt die in that train crash)

He could have. I'm not saying he did, but he could have.

being immortal, and how is batman supposed to win? Seeing as these are movies set in a pretty realistic world, someone like Ra's cant lose. No way, no how. Unless your going to tell me that batman becomes immortal too? In which case then we are totally going off the deep end in this 3rd film and turning it into something totally irrelevant to what has been proposed in the first 2 films. Stop confusing the comics with these films. Im well aware what Ra's is or isnt in the comics. Its impossible for Ra's of the comics to be the same in nolans films, unless, like I said, batman will be defeated in the end and Ra's lives on. Thats the only conclusion that can come from having an immortal Ra's in these movies. If Im wrong Id love to hear why. But I bet all Im gonna hear is how hes been ressurected many times in the comics, which is TOTALLY irrelevant.

Read:

Birth of the Demon
Bruce Wayne- Road Home: R'as Al Ghul

They're cheap and will give you insight towards their dynamic.

 

[Bane.]

In Begins did we actually see a corpse for Ra's or was it just presumed that the train killed him?

 

[TheBatman072]

In Begins did we actually see a corpse for Ra's or was it just presumed that the train killed him?

There was no mention of Ra's at all after the train crash.

He died.

 

[Bane.]

People have survived worse.
Im talking real life here, people have fallen out of planes and the parachute hasnt opened and they didnt die.
Him surviving wouldnt go out of Nolans realistic image I dont think.