The Dark Knight Rises Ra's Al Ghul - Speculation in Dark Knight Rises

[joker1524]

The Fire Rises brother

 

[Gianakin_]

It should, and it should burn some posters' ideas.

 

[jb007]

I'm really hopeing for a flashback sceen. I'd hate to think they would just do some voice-over work : ( .

 

[Gianakin_]

Several people have suggested a nightmare scene. I'd be all for it.

Aslo, count me in on the crowd that thinks Neeson was flat out lying when he said it'd be a blink-or-you'll-miss-it role. not anything substantial, of course, but I'm expecting an extended cameo.

 

[Blue Sugar]

I just hope we don't end up with a Qui-Gon in ROTS situation.

 

[Gianakin_]

We both know that's as impossible as Bane being Ra's.

 

[Blue Sugar]

We both know that's as impossible as Bane being Ra's.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Ra's Al Ghul is NOT dead, Ra's Al Ghul is an idea !
You cannot kill an idea !

Liam Neeson's character was a vessel for that idea to manifest itself in.

Now the vessel is dead and burned but the idea, Ra's Al Ghul, lives on. It is immortal and it has found a new vessel named Bane !

Remember when The first Ra's vessel said to Bruce: "You have to become an IDEA !"

Well there you go.

The idea of Ra's is immortal, thus Ra's al Ghul is immortal.

 

[Brain Damage]

I just hope we don't end up with a Qui-Gon in ROTS situation.

I vaguely remember this, care to refresh my memory?

 

[Gianakin_]

Ra's Al Ghul is NOT dead, Ra's Al Ghul is an idea !
You cannot kill an idea !

Liam Neeson's character was a vessel for that idea to manifest itself in.

Now the vessel is dead and burned but the idea, Ra's Al Ghul, lives on. It is immortal and it has found a new vessel named Bane !

Remember when The first Ra's vessel said to Bruce: "You have to become an IDEA !"

Well there you go.

The idea of Ra's is immortal, thus Ra's al Ghul is immortal.

Even that's not certain. We don't know if Bane is here to finish what Ra's did. We don't even know if his followers are the LoS.

But yeah, Bane=Ra's symbolically and not literally is fine by me.

 

[Gianakin_]

I vaguely remember this, care to refresh my memory?

After Anakin's burned (literally and figuratively) and Obi reunites with Yoda in the hospital moon/planet, we see Yoda meditating and later announces to Obi that he was taught by QuiGon how to be sentient even after death and that Yoda himself would teach the same trick to Obi. Essentially that QuiGon was the first Force Ghost in the Hexalogy.

Btw, Neeson was asked to return and actually BE HEARD conversing with Yoda, but refused. He came back last year to voice a QuiGon hallucination for the Clone Wars, though. I guess that figures, though. Neeson stopped being picky and critical of his roles after 2006. A pity. Would have had some more continuity between TPM and RotS there.

 

[Brain Damage]

After Anakin's burned (literally and figuratively) and Obi reunites with Yoda in the hospital moon/planet, we see Yoda meditating and later announces to Obi that he was taught by QuiGon how to be sentient even after death and that Yoda himself would teach the same trick to Obi. Essentially that QuiGon was the first Force Ghost in the Hexalogy.

Btw, Neeson was asked to return and actually BE HEARD conversing with Yoda, but refused. He came back last year to voice a QuiGon hallucination for the Clone Wars, though. I guess that figures, though. Neeson stopped being picky and critical of his roles after 2006. A pity. Would have had some more continuity between TPM and RotS there.

Ah, yes, I do remember this, thank you!
It would have been quite an interesting scene, but the final film didn't really suffer without it.
I always found it ironic, as a side note, that Neeson easily gave the best performance in TPM, yet his character was easily the most useless.

 

[Gianakin_]

A better comparison would be that both Jedi masters in the 1st film of each trilogy resent being part of those films. Although Guiness came back for Ep5 and 6 and Neeson stayed away.

Why would you call QuiGon useless, though? If anything, I think ObiWan was the most useless character in Ep1. Yes, even more useless than JarJar.

 

[Brain Damage]

A better comparison would be that both Jedi masters in the 1st film of each trilogy resent being part of those films. Although Guiness came back for Ep5 and 6 and Neeson stayed away.

Why would you call QuiGon useless, though? If anything, I think ObiWan was the most useless character in Ep1. Yes, even more useless than JarJar.

Obi-Wan was useless, but he was one of those characters that had to be there. Qui-Gon was useless in that everything he does in the movie could have been done by someone else, namely, Obi-Wan.
Though, that way you don't get to see Obi-Wan as a Padawan, which would have been a shame. But it still doesn't defeat the purpose that Qui-Gon was a very generic plot character (though Neeson didn't play him generically, he was brilliant).

I think a good way to measure a character's worth to the plot is the consequences of their death. For example, we were discussing in another threat the importance of Rachel in TDK. When she dies, both Bruce and Harvey have their worlds changed, and the rest of the movie is very different because of that. And I'm sure that her death will also play a big part in why Bruce is the way he is at the start of TDKR.

The only consequence of Qui-Gon's death, on the other hand, is that Obi-Wan was sad and Anakin because his padawan. But since we never really got to see Qui-Gon teach Anakin anything (besides give him some words of wisdom... about midichlorines ), the impact of Anakin losing him as a teacher isn't felt. We as an audience are sad because we like Qui-Gon as a character, but the world continues to function perfectly without him as if nothing happened. Again, compare to this to Rachel where everything changed.

Now, I'm not saying that Qui-Gon's death should have had some galaxy changing ramifications, but it should have been a bigger deal. This was the first Jedi killed by a Sith in a long, long time, yet it's not handled as such. Still, I love Neeson as Qui-Gon, and I'm glad he's in the movie. I just wish his character had been given something more important to do than die, and that his death actually had some lasting impact which was reflected upon in the sequels.

 

[beastmode]

Ra's Al Ghul is NOT dead, Ra's Al Ghul is an idea !
You cannot kill an idea !

Liam Neeson's character was a vessel for that idea to manifest itself in.

Now the vessel is dead and burned but the idea, Ra's Al Ghul, lives on. It is immortal and it has found a new vessel named Bane !

Remember when The first Ra's vessel said to Bruce: "You have to become an IDEA !"

Well there you go.

The idea of Ra's is immortal, thus Ra's al Ghul is immortal.

All in the name of an uber realistic Batman universe right? Either way, if you are correct on this, that is some lame stuff there. Laz Pit sounds better.

 

[Carnotaur3]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Ra's Al Ghul idea. What we might have in this movie is the fight for which legend will take over. Will Ra's Al Ghul win from the dead? Or will the Batman legend take hold over the city?

 

[munchie64]

All in the name of an uber realistic Batman universe right? Either way, if you are correct on this, that is some lame stuff there. Laz Pit sounds better.

How is it lame? Sounds quite well thought out to me

 

[Mysteryman]

Bane is a protege of Ras.
It's simple and it doesnt fry my brain .

 

[Victarion]

I vote that we see Ra's and his wife fighting against the people that wanted to kill them. Based off the side with the little girl and her mother holed up in that room.

 

[Mysteryman]

I like that idea.
SECONDED!

 

[joker1524]

ras = qui gon jin in his younger days!
bane = obi wans father

 

[Piuchén]

Guys ive made a discovery...theres no way for bane to know about dent n the lies unless he was involved...this is my discovery....bane is the joker 8 years later...mask covers the scars n enhances voice...shaves head n there u have it!

* runs and hides in cave*

Wow...maybe he really is The Joker !

:S

 

[TCCB]

Ra's Al Ghul is NOT dead, Ra's Al Ghul is an idea !
You cannot kill an idea !

Liam Neeson's character was a vessel for that idea to manifest itself in.

Now the vessel is dead and burned but the idea, Ra's Al Ghul, lives on. It is immortal and it has found a new vessel named Bane !

Remember when The first Ra's vessel said to Bruce: "You have to become an IDEA !"

Well there you go.

The idea of Ra's is immortal, thus Ra's al Ghul is immortal.

This. And I'm not entirely certain that Bane is taking up the mantle. Maybe Miranda Tate is though. As I was reading this discussion the thought crossed my mind "If Ra's Al Ghul means 'The Demon's Head' what does Talia Al Ghul mean?" it's not intended to be a last name. It's a TITLE so Marion might be telling a partial truth that she is NOT Talia, maybe Nolan and Co had the same thought I had. Maybe Miranda is Ra's Al Ghul, because if Ra's Al Ghul is a title and immortal then she might be the next Ra's.

And therein might lie some tension between how Ra's (Marion) wants to destroy Gotham, Bruce and Batman and how Bane wants to destroy Gotham, Bruce and Batman. They could very well not be working together, just towards the same goals.

 

[Gianakin_]

I love that it's the 3rd Nolan film and people are still signing up here to complain about his vision, as if they still don't know what to expect.

 

[KalMart]

Bane trained in the League pf Shadows wile Wayne was there...so we'll see Al Ghul as well.