"You've Stuck Your Webs In My Business For The Last Time!" Alfred Molina Returns As Doctor Octopus

Discussion in 'Spider-Man: No Way Home' started by Arachnerd, Feb 24, 2021.

  1. Mr. Peanut Registered

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    T
    hat reviewer's point would have more validity if Doc Ock had shown evil tendencies before the arms started messing with his head.

    I mean, obviously he still had agency after the arms started talking in his head, and thus some degree of culpability, but his thought process was still warped by it, the arms manipulated him into succumbing to all those negative emotions the reviewer talks about.

    When Doc Ock first sees Peter's face in Spider-man 2, we see him briefly snap back to full lucidity, a friendly smile on his face, before the arms assert their influence again and he viciously grabs Peter by the throat. When Peter finally gets through to him, we see Doc Ock exert an effort of will to assert dominance over the arms.

    The Ock we see in NWH has already seen Peter's face, he's already had that brief moment of lucidity and was transported right as the arms influenced him into lashing out to strangle Peter.

    There is very clearly a battle going on inside of Doc Ock's head. In NWH, Ock suddenly no longer has to fight that battle.
     
    #526 Mr. Peanut, Dec 21, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
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  2. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    This is a debate I've had many times over the years here. How much influence did the arms have on Octavius. I think there's no question they were the tipping point that sent him into villainy obviously. But they did ultimately prey on Otto's own desires and hubris e.g. "I couldn't have miscalculated. It was working".

    Of course A.I. cannot forge human emotions. They didn't cause Ock to smile, laugh, spout off his villainous one liners etc. That was all Otto in his new villainous frame of mind the arms caused.

    There was a big tell tale sign of the violence and ruthless determination Otto had in him when it came to keeping his fusion reactor going. At the demonstration when it all starts to go haywire. The fusion machine is destroying the lab, everyone is fleeing, Harry and Rosie are shouting at Otto to shut it down. He's ignoring them. Then Spidey swings in and tries to unplug it and Otto viciously smashes him into the wall.

    So yeah I've always believed the seeds of Ock's ruthlessness were there in Otto, but the arms brought it out ten fold. I think NWH got it right in that regard. Without their influence, just like in SM-2, Otto was able to look past his own desires and do the right thing. It was just done better in SM-2 because there was no quick fix. Peter had to get through to Ock as Otto Octavius the scientist, the man behind the tentacles. It had more nuance and depth because Peter and Otto had that shared connection. What Aunt May had said to Peter about Spider-Man was also applicable to Otto and his path as Doc Ock. Its why he was able to repeat her words to Ock.
     
  3. Toomes' Phone Registered

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    At the same time, it was cool to see Molina play Ock with a personality more in line with the classic comics - egotistical, snappish, and rude.
     
  4. BrollySupersj The only verdict, is vengeance.

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    Seeing Ock and Maguire Parker have a little moment after he's cured, sent right back into 2004 so hard I got whiplash.
     
  5. TheWallCrawler hero or a menace?

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    That's a good point.

    I think the reason why it appears as if he's instantly "fixed" with the new inhibitor chip is because he experiences a sudden enormous sense of relief. Having an A.I. mess with his brain must've been a constant mental strain, and removing it reminded Otto of what he had nearly forgotten: a simple feeling of peacefulness.

    If he was truly fixed, he would've stayed to help Spider-man with the Goblin. But the moment things went sideways, he fled almost instantly, probably because he was too scared to lose what he had just gained. That's how I read the situation. It's not until the climax that he managed pull himself together and do the right thing.
     
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  6. Galactus123 Registered

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  7. Arachnerd The White Portuguese

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    While I do think they made Doc Ock too much of a butt monkey at points, Alfred Molina was still fantastic in this and I'm glad his character was kept consistent for the most part.
     
  8. Toomes' Phone Registered

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    He was a badass during the final fight too.
     
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  9. Silvermoth Krakoan native

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    Otto ‘steal your girl’ octavius
     
  10. TheVileOne Registered

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    Molina is great in this role and I'm glad he was brought back. That said, they took a lot of creative license with what happened to his character in Spider-Man 2.

    It doesn't really hurt the movie, but the movie is filled with a lot of logic plot holes you just kind of have to accept and/or ignore.
     
  11. FlareKnight Registered

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    I think they handled him pretty well. He got a lot of early focus as the first villain to really show up and the main guy against getting them fixed. But I felt pretty comfortable with it when he did snap back to his old self after that chip was installed.

    And I think it was worth it anyways for that scene with older Tobey Spider-Man. Two guys that in a sense would never had the chance to meet again. Good emotions there and feels right that he helped out in the finale.
     
  12. Dweet Registered

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    He's my favorite villain in this. I liked they gave us time with his villain side and his good side. His reunion with Tobey was the best.
     
  13. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

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  14. JannTosh Registered

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    I’m starting to think these are not really the exact villains we saw in their respective movies. They are variants from timelines where they got “cured”

    the Tobey and Andrew Peter’ could be the exact Same especially since they got transported well after the events of their movies
     
  15. TheVileOne Registered

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    Wibbly wobbly timey wimey
     
  16. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

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  17. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

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  18. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    About time. Ock is long overdue the Hot Toys treatment.
     
  19. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

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  20. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Man if you told me 5 years ago that we would see Alfred Molina, Jamie Foxx, and Willem Dafoe dancing around together on a movie set in their Spider-Man villain costumes I'd have called BS.
     
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  21. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

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