Zoe Kravitz IS Catwoman

[MovieSlave]

Oh come on this is just embarrassing. Do you have any idea how stupid it sounds chastising Nolan's Batman movies (or any movies for that matter) for not having enough leading color actors? There's movie franchises out there (CBM and non CBM) with none at all. Burton's Batman movies didn't have a significant leading person of color. Raimi's Spider-Man movies don't have any significant leading roles with a colored actor either. How many of the Indiana Jones movies had a leading colored actor? Or Cameron's Terminator movies? In fact how many of Cameron's movies have leading colored actors? Has Martin Scorsese got a long line of diverse leading colored actors spanning his movies? Or the aforementioned Tim Burton? Could go on and on. They don't need to and they are not obligated to. If you're judging movies by the race of the actors rather than the talent, then your standards of quality for a good movie are complete BS.

The likes of JJ Abrams and Tarantino are not good directors because they have a more diverse racial range of actors in their movies. They're good because they cast talented actors suited to the parts they were hired for. The skin color of his actors shouldn't even come into the equation. Talent is talent. I'm not hoping Reeves is going to pepper any Batman movies he does with racial diversity just so we can say he's using colored actors. I just want good actors. That's all anyone should want.

Exactly!

 

[Steyin]

Nothing? How come?

I don't really care for Reeves' work from what I've seen, was never really impressed. None of the castings excite me. I'm sure Pattinson has grown since his Twilight days, but I can't just picture him as Batman. Didn't mind the idea of Hill as Penguin, but can't see him as Riddler...but who knows what was going on. Kravitz as Catwoman...another one I can't envision. Wright as Gordon...fine by me, like his work. Plot details seem ok if this is more noir-detective like, but after all the failures of the current DCU, a loss of continuity and tons of Batman already I feel burnt out and just disinterested overall. I was hoping they would put Batman on the backburner for a bit.

To be quite honest, I'd love a Batman Beyond film more than anything. Yet as someone who has always been a DC guy, these last few years have just really turned me off to the film side of things. It's a crappy feeling and I'm more pessimistic about any film project than hopeful. Not really sure what they can do to turn me around.

 

[Closerframe]

Again that is a foolish illogical argument. If you're judging movies by the race of the actors, instead of the talent of the actors, then your standard for what makes a good movie is nonsense. We're not living in the 1940's. There's plenty of great respected colored actors and actresses leading movies these days that directors don't need to be casting them in main roles to let audiences know a protagonist or antagonist can be played by anyone. If people don't know that in this day and age then they are ignorant. You are wrong, it is absolutely only about how talented the actor is. That is ALL that should matter. The talent of the actor. Not their race. I don't judge Morgan Freeman differently to Heath Ledger. Neither should anyone else. They were both acting. They both did great jobs. Heath's was just more impressive. Their skin color doesn't come into the equation.

Looking at the reactions to the casting of Kravitz should tell you that. I don't see people jumping for joy because she's black. But I see several people are unimpressed with her ability as an actress. Because that is the only thing people should be concerned with. She can't do a better or worse job just because she's black. This movie is not going to be better just because she's black. The only thing she can bring to the table to make this movie good is her acting ability. Period. I'm not going to feel like a had a richer movie going experience just because I saw Catwoman played by a "different perspective" with a minority actress. Certainly didn't when I watched Halle Berry's abomination. I don't think Tom Holland's two Spider-Man movies are richer or better movies than Raimi's because MJ and Flash Thompson are played by colored actors etc. That's not the way movie quality should be judged.

As for this TDKR too urban thing. We all are assuming it was the Juno Temple role she was passed on. Watch Temple's scenes in TDKR. Tally up her screen time. Its not even close to two minutes. She's on screen for less than a minute. 30 seconds at best. These two actors are on screen longer, and have more dialogue than she does;

But you know some think Kravitz "got the last laugh" because she missed out on a thankless 30 second role 7 years ago and has now landed this. Priceless.

You clearly misinterpreted what I said, I didn't say by having POC you get a better movie nor did I say I judge movies more harshly if they don't have diverse cast. Please point out anywhere in my response that this is mentioned or implied. This was simply an observation that was made by one viewer, I'm not wrong for feeling this way just like you're not wrong for feeling the way you do. I'll leave it at that because this thread is about Zoe as Catwoman, not Nolan's lack of diversity.

 

[The Joker]

You clearly misinterpreted what I said, I didn't say by having POC you get a better movie nor did I say I judge movies more harshly if they don't have diverse cast. Please point out anywhere in my response that this is mentioned or implied. This was simply an observation that was made by one viewer, I'm not wrong for feeling this way just like you're not wrong for feeling the way you do. I'll leave it at that because this thread is about Zoe as Catwoman, not Nolan's lack of diversity.

Apologies for any misinterpretation, but when I see a director called out for having just one colored actor in a significant role in his Batman movies, and other directors praised for finding 'balances between inclusiveness and storytelling' simply because they have more colored actors in their cast, it comes across as criticism. But you're right, we're going off topic. Just leave it at that.

I don't really care for Reeves' work from what I've seen, was never really impressed. None of the castings excite me. I'm sure Pattinson has grown since his Twilight days, but I can't just picture him as Batman. Didn't mind the idea of Hill as Penguin, but can't see him as Riddler...but who knows what was going on. Kravitz as Catwoman...another one I can't envision. Wright as Gordon...fine by me, like his work. Plot details seem ok if this is more noir-detective like, but after all the failures of the current DCU, a loss of continuity and tons of Batman already I feel burnt out and just disinterested overall. I was hoping they would put Batman on the backburner for a bit.

To be quite honest, I'd love a Batman Beyond film more than anything. Yet as someone who has always been a DC guy, these last few years have just really turned me off to the film side of things. It's a crappy feeling and I'm more pessimistic about any film project than hopeful. Not really sure what they can do to turn me around.

Have you watched his Planet of the Apes movies? They just should really affirm your faith in his ability as a director.

Pattinson and Kravitz are in the same boat for me in that I've only ever seen them in one movie, and I was unimpressed by them in those movies. But Pattinson has apparently come a long way since his Twylight days, and people seem excited for him in the role. So I'm not worried about him. Kravitz I've only seen in her bit part in X-Men First Class. I'm hoping she has also come a long way with her acting since then. I don't see as much enthusiasm for her acting as I do Pattinson. Some people even think she's not good at all. The only thing not causing me to think this is bad casting is trusting Reeves' judgment, and his ability to wrangle a good performance out of her.

 

[TheGuy]

No torrent of Catwoman manips yet. For the meantime, this will do.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I want goggles!

 

[flickchick85]

Goggles are great (and practical)!

 

[Predator jp]

i just want this.

 

[TheGuy]

Zoe would look stunning in this suit. Keep the dreads, add some goggles and make the purple darker... voila.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Also, Zoe wasn't allowed to test for that thankless Juno Temple role, not for Catwoman. Don't spin them lies into truth, tis' how we get fake news.

unfortunately, people seem to be doing just that now. While at the same time bashing Nolan, which is just pathetic.

 

[Boom]

Frankly I don't think it's possible for them to come up with anything more bland than what Nolan and Hemming cooked up in TDKR, so they can only go up from there.

 

[shinlyle]

Have you watched his Planet of the Apes movies? They just should really affirm your faith in his ability as a director.

Pattinson and Kravitz are in the same boat for me in that I've only ever seen them in one movie, and I was unimpressed by them in those movies. But Pattinson has apparently come a long way since his Twylight days, and people seem excited for him in the role. So I'm not worried about him. Kravitz I've only seen in her bit part in X-Men First Class. I'm hoping she has also come a long way with her acting since then. I don't see as much enthusiasm for her acting as I do Pattinson. Some people even think she's not good at all. The only thing not causing me to think this is bad casting is trusting Reeves' judgment, and his ability to wrangle a good performance out of her.

His Planet of the Apes films (I didn't see the last one, just the first 2) were amazing. I mean, the dude took a franchise that Tim Burton had bludgeoned to death with a black and white striped shovel, and he made it just incredible.

As for Kravitz, I feel like I should know her from more things, but I just don't. I would have preferred a more known and dependable actress for Selina, but if we get a solid performance, then I'm good. Twilight guy as Batman is something I'm just not looking at until I see a preview image or trailer. I honestly had my fill of hearing about those films, so I'll wait until I have something fresh to judge him upon. I haven't seen him in anything since Voldemort's crew killed him in Goblet of Fire. So...I'm just hoping for a solid PG-13 Batman flick that I can not have to dissect...and maybe not see Batman with a Jason Vorhees-esque body count.

 

[The Joker]

His Planet of the Apes films (I didn't see the last one, just the first 2) were amazing. I mean, the dude took a franchise that Tim Burton had bludgeoned to death with a black and white striped shovel, and he made it just incredible.

As for Kravitz, I feel like I should know her from more things, but I just don't. I would have preferred a more known and dependable actress for Selina, but if we get a solid performance, then I'm good. Twilight guy as Batman is something I'm just not looking at until I see a preview image or trailer. I honestly had my fill of hearing about those films, so I'll wait until I have something fresh to judge him upon. I haven't seen him in anything since Voldemort's crew killed him in Goblet of Fire. So...I'm just hoping for a solid PG-13 Batman flick that I can not have to dissect...and maybe not see Batman with a Jason Vorhees-esque body count.

Reeves actually didn't direct the first Apes movie. Rupert Wyatt did. Reeves did the two sequels.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Oh come on this is just silly. Do you have any idea how foolish it sounds chastising Nolan's Batman movies (or any movies for that matter) for not having enough leading color actors? There's movie franchises out there (CBM and non CBM) with none at all. Burton's Batman movies didn't have a significant leading person of color. Raimi's Spider-Man movies don't have any significant leading roles with a colored actor either. How many of the Indiana Jones movies had a leading colored actor? Or Cameron's Terminator movies? In fact how many of Cameron's movies have leading colored actors? Has Martin Scorsese got a long line of diverse leading colored actors spanning his movies? Or the aforementioned Tim Burton? Could go on and on. They don't need to and they are not obligated to. If you're judging movies by the race of the actors rather than the talent, then your standards of quality for a good movie are complete BS.

The likes of JJ Abrams and Tarantino are not good directors because they have a more diverse racial range of actors in their movies. They're good because they cast talented actors suited to the parts they were hired for. The skin color of his actors shouldn't even come into the equation. Talent is talent. I'm not hoping Reeves is going to pepper any Batman movies he does with racial diversity just so we can say he's using colored actors. I just want good actors. That's all anyone should want.

So... you're arguing that we shouldn't criticize Nolan for using nearly an all-white cast because... everyone else does it? Look, I like Nolan. I think he's a phenomenal director. TDK, BB, Inception, Memento and The Prestige are some of my favorite movies. But just like Wes Anderson, the Coen Brothers, Tim Burton, Martin Scorsese, etc., his talent doesn't make it any less glaring that he has (up until now at least) struggled to cast people of color in leading roles. Now, maybe that's not completely his fault; it's entirely possible that Warner Brothers demanded he use mostly white casts. But regardless, I don't think "we shouldn't criticize him because all his contemporaries did it" is a strong argument. And to be clear, all those other directors you mentioned should be held to account for this as well. Because unless the movie is set in a world where no people of color do anything significant, it's not even realistic most of the time for the main character and nearly every single person around them (their love interest, their coworkers, their friends) to all be white as well.

I typically really like your posts, Joker, but I'm a bit surprised you're taking this stance. I mean, do you honestly not believe that Hollywood still has a diversity problem? Do you think that the reason the majority of Hollywood movies have majority white casts is because all of those actors were simply the best of the best? Come on, man. I'm not saying they need to go out of their way to change the race of a canonical comic book character, but they also shouldn't avoid it if the actor is good enough. And in the case of the role Zoe was competing for in the Nolan film, it wasn't even a canonical character, given that she wasn't even named "Holly." Yet, the casting director or someone (I doubt it was Nolan himself) deemed her "too urban." Too urban to play a poor resident of an URBAN environment. Sounds hella racist to me, any way you swing it. And again, I'm not calling Nolan racist or the film itself, but that comment sure as hell was.

 

[Closerframe]

I'd prefer design elements like these, but we don't know what feel Reeves is going for overall.

 

[The Joker]

So... you're arguing that we shouldn't criticize Nolan for using nearly an all-white cast because... everyone else does it? Look, I like Nolan. I think he's a phenomenal director. TDK, BB, Inception, Memento and The Prestige are some of my favorite movies. But just like Wes Anderson, the Coen Brothers, Tim Burton, Martin Scorsese, etc., his talent doesn't make it any less glaring that he has (up until now at least) struggled to cast people of color in leading roles. Now, maybe that's not completely his fault; it's entirely possible that Warner Brothers demanded he use mostly white casts. But regardless, I don't think "we shouldn't criticize him because all his contemporaries did it" is a strong argument. And to be clear, all those other directors you mentioned should be held to account for this as well. Because unless the movie is set in a world where no people of color do anything significant, it's not even realistic most of the time for the main character and nearly every single person around them (their love interest, their coworkers, their friends) to all be white as well.

I typically really like your posts, Joker, but I'm a bit surprised you're taking this stance. I mean, do you honestly not believe that Hollywood still has a diversity problem? Do you think that the reason the majority of Hollywood movies have majority white casts is because all of those actors were simply the best of the best? Come on, man. I'm not saying they need to go out of their way to change the race of a canonical comic book character, but they also shouldn't avoid it if the actor is good enough. And in the case of the role Zoe was competing for in the Nolan film, it wasn't even a canonical character, given that she wasn't even named "Holly." Yet, the casting director or someone (I doubt it was Nolan himself) deemed her "too urban." Too urban to play a poor resident of an URBAN environment. Sounds hella racist to me, any way you swing it. And again, I'm not calling Nolan racist or the film itself, but that comment sure as hell was.

We've moved on from this discussion. Its off topic. If you want me to respond to this properly I can PM you?

 

[Deck Rickard]

We've moved on from this discussion. Its off topic. If you want me to respond to this properly I can PM you?

Sure, no problem. Sorry, I haven't signed in since yesterday.

 

[Dk1201]

Shrugs I am ok with this

 

[pixen]

i just want this.

This! Give me a full blown cat suit (one piece and zipped up) and not the weird version it evolved into. If you don't know what I'm talking about... it's this.

Spoiler

View attachment 29382

View attachment 29384

I'd prefer design elements like these, but we don't know what feel Reeves is going for overall.

I'd be happy if they took this and combined it with Cooke's!

 

[Lasirius]

Is that because you think she's a bad actress, or that because she was in High School Musical, she must be a bad actress? I'm just wondering if she has the same taint on her that Pattinson has from those Twilight movies.

Because she has not demonstrated any sort of convincing acting work that would be worthy of such a high-profile character. Additionally, she would look like a teenager playing dress up.

Pattison's and Hudgen's work are not even remotely similar.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Nah, Hudgens would look sexy as hell in the catsuit, but tis a convo of the past.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Because she has not demonstrated any sort of convincing acting work that would be worthy of such a high-profile character. Additionally, she would look like a teenager playing dress up.

Pattison's and Hudgen's work are not even remotely similar.

Well, she's the same age as Kravitz. And she doesn't look any younger than Kravitz does. Acting wise, I don't think this would have been at all a stretch for her to play.

As for Pattinson, I just mention him because a lot of people were quick to write him off.

 

[Detective Conan]

The best Catwoman of all time: Halle Berry passes the whip down to Zoe.

 

[TheFuture]

Lucius Fox is arguably one of the most important characters in The Dark Knight trilogy so I don't know why someone would say that Nolan is against diversity as John David Washington is a lead for Nolan's upcoming movie. Also Kravitz herself didn't say it was Nolan himself who told her she's too "urban", she made it seem like it was someone that's involve in the casting process who got in the way of her auditioning for a part.

Yes exactly.

 

[Enriquespy]

The best Catwoman of all time: Halle Berry

Oh boi