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DC Animation ‘Batman: Caped Crusader’: Animated Series From Bruce Timm, J.J. Abrams, Matt Reeves Greenlit

there's more dramatic tension and internal conflict in this version of bruce wayne.
it makes him a complex character.
same with harvey in this.

i been rewatching some episodes.
makes me appreciate it more.
 
i like long halloween, dark victory, catwoman when in rome, and superman for all seasons.

but...jeph loeb is still a racist hoebag.
 
This show is perfect. I have zero complaints. This is up there with TDKT and BTAS as some of the best DC content ever. I’m so happy with this show, I can’t wait to watch this with my son when he gets a bit older.
 
Regarding all the Loeb talk, I really do like a lot of his Batman work with Sale. Particularly The Long Halloween as that got me back into reading DC consistently again after many years. But I wouldn't nescearily say they're great or groundbreaking stories either. He has interesting concepts and ideas, but his script writing is just fine or ok. I think they're good entry level stuff to get into Batman (which might be one reason why they're so popular). That and Sale's artwork. Loeb's writing has always been fine at best and flat out bad at worst (though I do think his Challangers mini is underrated).
 
We're all entitled to our preferences at the end of the day. I certainly would not put Loeb over Brubaker and Rucka as a writer overall and Judd Winick doesn't belong in the conversation involving Brubaker and Rucka. They're certainly not my favorite Bat writers( Grant Morrison ) but it is a fact that The Long Halloween/Dark Victory/ Hush and Under The Red Hood are the most memorable Batman arcs and major status quo changers/establishers. Nothing Rucka and Brubaker did comes remotely close. Creating Batwoman and writing cop stories doesn't establish them as major Batman writers. By that logic Tom Taylor should be in the list of Batman GOATS for his Nightwing run. Even now DC is publishing a what if version of Death in the Family and they have plans for a sequel to Dark Victory next month. The Nolan and Reeves films have a lot of Loeb influence. Hush/TLH/UTRH have been adapted to animation and UTRH was adapted to gaming. I believe Matt Reeves was Loeb's student too. Doubt Rucka/Brubakers runs will be revisited or expanded upon ever because frankly there's nothing to them unless you're a big fan of nothing burger characters like Zeiss, Kyle Abbot and Sasha Bordeaux.

Yeah, I like Brubaker and Rucka, but IMO, to be a great Batman writer, you have to be great at writing Batman/Bruce, and neither of them were particularly exceptional at that. They're more like Chuck Dixon, where their most memorable work was writing the supporting characters, not Batman himself.

To me, Murder/Fugitive isn't even the best "Batman gets framed for killing his love interest" story. I prefer Bat-Murderer, but I know most modern readers wouldn't.

And yeah, as someone who read Brubaker's Batman run at the time, "nothing burger" summed up Zeiss and much of that run in general. The "Batman" comic wasn't in a good place throughout 2000-2002.
 
animation nowadays....the styles are all about saving coin and it shows and WB been saving that $$$ since YJ originally returned for s3

Yeah, it's a bit of a bummer.
I really thought we'd get something technically in the vein of Batman & Harley Quinn, the ideal being Strange Days/Justice League: Gods&Monsters which have the look of modern Timm but with a more "cinematic" finish.

I think the real problem for me here actually lies not so much in the movement (which, I understand, will unfortunately no longer have the classic "stretch-and-bounce" quality of traditional animation) as in the posing. Characters often look like they're just standing there, straight out of a model sheet, with little or no attitude. Same for the facial expression.
If you know your animation is limited, just find interesting ways to frame your characters, find nice silhouettes, give some shadows, etc... Here, things often looks bland, artificial and it may take away some mood or emotion here and there...

All in all, things are not catastrophic either, and there's moment I genuinely love what's on screen.
But I think it could be a lot better as, in my opinion, this kind of thing isn't so much a matter of budget as of direction.
 
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I don't know if Reeves is familiar with Fugitive, so there's two possibilities imo. Because there is absolutely...similar themes in both The Batman and the work of Rucka/Brubaker.

Either Reeves has read their work and it is an active decision, or Reeves hasn't read their work and it's complete coincidence that he touches upon extremely similar stuff. Said extremely similar stuff being the very reason The Batman is my favourite Batman movie of all time.

Both Matt and the pairing of Rucka/Brubaker focus hard on the humanity of Bruce Wayne and how that's what really makes him a hero, despite the internal demons that Bruce battles with on a daily basis
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"His compassion for Gotham, for the victims and survivors, is limitless; his compassion for his allies, his companions, almost nonexistent. We wanted to change that."

View attachment 99563

(thank you @Kane52630 you always do God's work)
Like

come on, man.

It can't be just me seeing the parallels here, intended or not. Focusing on Batman's humanity and duality is hardly

Eh,thus is standard Batman 101. Snyder, King,Cooke, Zdarsky and various other writers have played with Bruce's struggle, humanity and duality.
 
Yeah, I like Brubaker and Rucka, but IMO, to be a great Batman writer, you have to be great at writing Batman/Bruce, and neither of them were particularly exceptional at that. They're more like Chuck Dixon, where their most memorable work was writing the supporting characters, not Batman himself.

To me, Murder/Fugitive isn't even the best "Batman gets framed for killing his love interest" story. I prefer Bat-Murderer, but I know most modern readers wouldn't.

And yeah, as someone who read Brubaker's Batman run at the time, "nothing burger" summed up Zeiss and much of that run in general. The "Batman" comic wasn't in a good place throughout 2000-2002.
Batmurderer was great imo. You didn't have to follow 50 books and the writers( O'Neil? Wolfman?) Had the main beats planned versus the 11th hour David Cain reveal.

Dead Reckoning in Tec was my favorite of the Brubaker era so there's that.
 
If episode 7, although fairly well-handled, made me fear an upcoming boredom with the series, the last three episodes quickly corrected that!

Episode 8, "Nocturne".

There's nothing complex about the episode per se, but overall I thought it succeeded in everything it set out to do.
The circus atmosphere is great, as is Natalia's character, and there's a little fan service without it being the usual boring "try hard" meta whatever you see everywhere else.
The final sequence between Batman and the young vampire was touching and visually nicely done.
Simple, effective, with a touch of fantasy: it's everything I love (ah, "On Leather Wing", let me rewatch you for the 300th time...:funny:).

Episode 9 & 10 : "The Killer Inside Me" & "Savage Night"

These last two episodes definitely form a block, and I think it's here that the series really managed to be as "noir" as teased. It's also more adult than the episodes before.

Even if his transformation and what leads up to it may seem a bit rushed, I really liked this new Two-Face. It's a version truly torn between Good and Evil, and the inversion of his face makes sense. When he's in anger, we're often shown the side of his face that has remained immaculate, as if to emphasize that the "good Harvey" is the one whose face has been destroyed: a perfect visual illustration of this more tragic version.
Batman and Bruce Wayne were also very good here. I'm all for the concept of keeping the character relatively mysterious, but he could sometimes come across as a bit "one note". I'm happy he finally gains some nuance here. And I absolutely had no problem with him briefly holding a gun, some fans should relax... That scene was terrific!

I also felt the direction was better in this finale, or rather more ambitious. As for my criticism in my previous post, the posing of the characters seemed better here.
Same for the treatment of the vehicles, apart from the scene of the car smashing into the hall at Thorne's, which was still pretty shoddy.
I also noticed that the designs for background characters (like in the restaurant) were less simple and cartoonish than in other episodes (the people in the metro attacked by Gentleman Ghost...). I prefer that...
One of the highlight for me was the whole sequence on the docks : superb atmosphere here!
And... well... that final shot... :love:

I'm pleased! That was very solid finish that really left me wanting more (in a good way!).
 
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Batmurderer was great imo. You didn't have to follow 50 books and the writers (O'Neil? Wolfman?)Had the main beats planned versus the 11th hour David Cain reveal.

Wein wrote that one.
 
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I’ve enjoyed Loeb contribution to Batman, particularly The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Batman Hush etc….
 
We're all entitled to our preferences at the end of the day. I certainly would not put Loeb over Brubaker and Rucka as a writer overall and Judd Winick doesn't belong in the conversation involving Brubaker and Rucka. They're certainly not my favorite Bat writers( Grant Morrison ) but it is a fact that The Long Halloween/Dark Victory/ Hush and Under The Red Hood are the most memorable Batman arcs and major status quo changers/establishers. Nothing Rucka and Brubaker did comes remotely close. Creating Batwoman and writing cop stories doesn't establish them as major Batman writers. By that logic Tom Taylor should be in the list of Batman GOATS for his Nightwing run. Even now DC is publishing a what if version of Death in the Family and they have plans for a sequel to Dark Victory next month. The Nolan and Reeves films have a lot of Loeb influence. Hush/TLH/UTRH have been adapted to animation and UTRH was adapted to gaming. I believe Matt Reeves was Loeb's student too. Doubt Rucka/Brubakers runs will be revisited or expanded upon ever because frankly there's nothing to them unless you're a big fan of nothing burger characters like Zeiss, Kyle Abbot and Sasha Bordeaux.
Yea for promotion. Says nothing about quality. And Loeb sucks, outside of a few rare occasions.
 
The most famous, most-advertised comics are VERY RARELY the best, in my experience. For example, I was just admiring the fact that DC is releasing Green Lantern: Far Sector in their brand new "compact comics" line. Which is great, as that's a book I'd never even heard of until reading reviews, and is far more interesting, both in concept and execution, than anything Geoff Johns ever wrote in his much-more-heralded Green Lantern run. Tomasi's GL Corps also ran circles around Johns' run at the same time it was going. But all you ever hear about when talking Green Lantern is "Geoff Johns Geoff Johns Geoff Johns." That's Loeb with Batman, imo. None of his stories would even come close to my top 10. He's as basic and lazy a writer as they come.
 
Finished the season. It’s not BTAS and I wouldn’t say it was perfect, but we’re off to a good start.

I saw a little bit of pre-release whining about Timm hinting at Bruce/Barbara yet again, but 1) that ended up being somewhat unfounded since it seems she’s more taken on the role traditionally occupied by her father rather than that of a love interest, and 2) this is one scenario where I wouldn’t even mind if they did go there with the characters, considering the show feels very “Elseworlds” and this Barbara actually feels like a grown woman and contemporary of Bruce’s rather than barely being out of high school or something.

Considering the era, I hope we see some harkening back to older villains as we go forward. Give me Hugo Strange, give me the Mad Monk…

Would love if there’s a Batman Adventures-style comic in this show’s future. Either with Derek Charm (one of the show’s character designers) or Jacob Edgar doing the art, ideally.
 
Despite some initial reservations, I also quite enjoy that this show’s Two-Face is less “Yes, he’s disfigured, but in kind of a cool way” and more “Oh Jesus, you’re hard to look at.”
 
Yea for promotion. Says nothing about quality. And Loeb sucks, outside of a few rare occasions.

You're entitled to feel that way and I'm not a diehard Loeb fan to even begin with. I always hated what he did to Darkseid and how he tanked the Ultimate Universe. Plus he's got legit accusations of racism. But I'm not going to pretend that Officer Down made the same impact on Batmythos as Under the Red Hood. Something getting popular and generating buzz doesn't make it any lesser. The Brubaker/Rucka era is rightfully remembered for Catwoman and Gotham Central despite these guys helming Batman and Detective( the flagship DC books). The Batman/Tec duo didn't pick up until Morrison and Dini came along. Stories like UTRH and Hush existed PRECISELY because Brubaker and Rucka were phoning it on the main titles and DC needed to spice it up. Even Brubaker has admitted to it. Still I feel we've strayed too far from CC discussion so let's get back to it,my apologies.
 
You're entitled to feel that way and I'm not a diehard Loeb fan to even begin with. I always hated what he did to Darkseid and how he tanked the Ultimate Universe. Plus he's got legit accusations of racism. But I'm not going to pretend that Officer Down made the same impact on Batmythos as Under the Red Hood. Something getting popular and generating buzz doesn't make it any lesser.
No, being lesser makes it lesser. Our argument was, being popular/buzzy doesn't make it better. Which it doesn't. If you like it better, that's fine. But it being more famous or "game-changing" doesn't make your stance more valid than those of us who disagree.

Bendis wrote a "game-changing" run on Superman. It was absolute garbage. "Changing the game" is hardly what defines good writing. Often times, those big moves are used as a crutch for bad writing instead.
 
You're entitled to feel that way and I'm not a diehard Loeb fan to even begin with. I always hated what he did to Darkseid and how he tanked the Ultimate Universe. Plus he's got legit accusations of racism. But I'm not going to pretend that Officer Down made the same impact on Batmythos as Under the Red Hood. Something getting popular and generating buzz doesn't make it any lesser. The Brubaker/Rucka era is rightfully remembered for Catwoman and Gotham Central despite these guys helming Batman and Detective( the flagship DC books). The Batman/Tec duo didn't pick up until Morrison and Dini came along. Stories like UTRH and Hush existed PRECISELY because Brubaker and Rucka were phoning it on the main titles and DC needed to spice it up. Even Brubaker has admitted to it. Still I feel we've strayed too far from CC discussion so let's get back to it,my apologies.
Few things have had a bigger impact on comic book movies over the last decade then Batman v. Superman. It's also terrible. Having "impact" can mean a lot of things. Many of them not good. Under the Red Hood wasn't just terrible. It gave us one of the worst characters around. Hush is pure trash.
 
No, being lesser makes it lesser. Our argument was, being popular/buzzy doesn't make it better. Which it doesn't. If you like it better, that's fine. But it being more famous or "game-changing" doesn't make your stance more valid than those of us who disagree.

Bendis wrote a "game-changing" run on Superman. It was absolute garbage. "Changing the game" is hardly what defines good writing. Often times, those big moves are used as a crutch for bad writing instead.
Except Bendis's run WASN'T game changing. Successive writers ignored his OC characters like Rogul and Invisible Mafia and retconned the secret identity reveal as well as his take on the Legion and Mongul and reverted Zod back to villainy. Older Jon was and remains a controversial character.
TLH on the otherhand has become the blue print for stories set with in the earliest period of Batman's career no matter what the medium. UTRH got adapted in animated form and resulted in arguably the best Batman animated movie.
 
Few things have had a bigger impact on comic book movies over the last decade then Batman v. Superman. It's also terrible. Having "impact" can mean a lot of things. Many of them not good. Under the Red Hood wasn't just terrible. It gave us one of the worst characters around. Hush is pure trash.
BVS didn't have any impact whatsoever. It was not a commercial success and got bad reviews. A niche group dedicated to calling it a masterpiece doesn't make it impactful.
 
The Batman: Under the Red Hood animated film being terrible is news to me. I think it’s pretty good. In every way superior to the graphic novel, which is definitely convoluted garbage, I’ll agree with that. The animated film ditched a bunch of unnecessary elements and streamlined it and it is much better for it.
 

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