We're all entitled to our preferences at the end of the day. I certainly would not put Loeb over Brubaker and Rucka as a writer overall and Judd Winick doesn't belong in the conversation involving Brubaker and Rucka. They're certainly not my favorite Bat writers( Grant Morrison ) but it is a fact that The Long Halloween/Dark Victory/ Hush and Under The Red Hood are the most memorable Batman arcs and major status quo changers/establishers. Nothing Rucka and Brubaker did comes remotely close. Creating Batwoman and writing cop stories doesn't establish them as major Batman writers. By that logic Tom Taylor should be in the list of Batman GOATS for his Nightwing run. Even now DC is publishing a what if version of Death in the Family and they have plans for a sequel to Dark Victory next month. The Nolan and Reeves films have a lot of Loeb influence. Hush/TLH/UTRH have been adapted to animation and UTRH was adapted to gaming. I believe Matt Reeves was Loeb's student too. Doubt Rucka/Brubakers runs will be revisited or expanded upon ever because frankly there's nothing to them unless you're a big fan of nothing burger characters like Zeiss, Kyle Abbot and Sasha Bordeaux.
animation nowadays....the styles are all about saving coin and it shows and WB been saving that $$$ since YJ originally returned for s3
I don't know if Reeves is familiar with Fugitive, so there's two possibilities imo. Because there is absolutely...similar themes in both The Batman and the work of Rucka/Brubaker.
Either Reeves has read their work and it is an active decision, or Reeves hasn't read their work and it's complete coincidence that he touches upon extremely similar stuff. Said extremely similar stuff being the very reason The Batman is my favourite Batman movie of all time.
Both Matt and the pairing of Rucka/Brubaker focus hard on the humanity of Bruce Wayne and how that's what really makes him a hero, despite the internal demons that Bruce battles with on a daily basis
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"His compassion for Gotham, for the victims and survivors, is limitless; his compassion for his allies, his companions, almost nonexistent. We wanted to change that."
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(thank you @Kane52630 you always do God's work)
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come on, man.
It can't be just me seeing the parallels here, intended or not. Focusing on Batman's humanity and duality is hardly
Batmurderer was great imo. You didn't have to follow 50 books and the writers( O'Neil? Wolfman?) Had the main beats planned versus the 11th hour David Cain reveal.Yeah, I like Brubaker and Rucka, but IMO, to be a great Batman writer, you have to be great at writing Batman/Bruce, and neither of them were particularly exceptional at that. They're more like Chuck Dixon, where their most memorable work was writing the supporting characters, not Batman himself.
To me, Murder/Fugitive isn't even the best "Batman gets framed for killing his love interest" story. I prefer Bat-Murderer, but I know most modern readers wouldn't.
And yeah, as someone who read Brubaker's Batman run at the time, "nothing burger" summed up Zeiss and much of that run in general. The "Batman" comic wasn't in a good place throughout 2000-2002.
Batmurderer was great imo. You didn't have to follow 50 books and the writers (O'Neil? Wolfman?)Had the main beats planned versus the 11th hour David Cain reveal.
Yea for promotion. Says nothing about quality. And Loeb sucks, outside of a few rare occasions.We're all entitled to our preferences at the end of the day. I certainly would not put Loeb over Brubaker and Rucka as a writer overall and Judd Winick doesn't belong in the conversation involving Brubaker and Rucka. They're certainly not my favorite Bat writers( Grant Morrison ) but it is a fact that The Long Halloween/Dark Victory/ Hush and Under The Red Hood are the most memorable Batman arcs and major status quo changers/establishers. Nothing Rucka and Brubaker did comes remotely close. Creating Batwoman and writing cop stories doesn't establish them as major Batman writers. By that logic Tom Taylor should be in the list of Batman GOATS for his Nightwing run. Even now DC is publishing a what if version of Death in the Family and they have plans for a sequel to Dark Victory next month. The Nolan and Reeves films have a lot of Loeb influence. Hush/TLH/UTRH have been adapted to animation and UTRH was adapted to gaming. I believe Matt Reeves was Loeb's student too. Doubt Rucka/Brubakers runs will be revisited or expanded upon ever because frankly there's nothing to them unless you're a big fan of nothing burger characters like Zeiss, Kyle Abbot and Sasha Bordeaux.
Yea for promotion. Says nothing about quality. And Loeb sucks, outside of a few rare occasions.
Huh, was Wolfman the writer behind Lazarus affair then? Must've mixed them up.Wein wrote that one.
No, being lesser makes it lesser. Our argument was, being popular/buzzy doesn't make it better. Which it doesn't. If you like it better, that's fine. But it being more famous or "game-changing" doesn't make your stance more valid than those of us who disagree.You're entitled to feel that way and I'm not a diehard Loeb fan to even begin with. I always hated what he did to Darkseid and how he tanked the Ultimate Universe. Plus he's got legit accusations of racism. But I'm not going to pretend that Officer Down made the same impact on Batmythos as Under the Red Hood. Something getting popular and generating buzz doesn't make it any lesser.
Few things have had a bigger impact on comic book movies over the last decade then Batman v. Superman. It's also terrible. Having "impact" can mean a lot of things. Many of them not good. Under the Red Hood wasn't just terrible. It gave us one of the worst characters around. Hush is pure trash.You're entitled to feel that way and I'm not a diehard Loeb fan to even begin with. I always hated what he did to Darkseid and how he tanked the Ultimate Universe. Plus he's got legit accusations of racism. But I'm not going to pretend that Officer Down made the same impact on Batmythos as Under the Red Hood. Something getting popular and generating buzz doesn't make it any lesser. The Brubaker/Rucka era is rightfully remembered for Catwoman and Gotham Central despite these guys helming Batman and Detective( the flagship DC books). The Batman/Tec duo didn't pick up until Morrison and Dini came along. Stories like UTRH and Hush existed PRECISELY because Brubaker and Rucka were phoning it on the main titles and DC needed to spice it up. Even Brubaker has admitted to it. Still I feel we've strayed too far from CC discussion so let's get back to it,my apologies.
Huh, was Wolfman the writer behind Lazarus affair then? Must've mixed them up.
Except Bendis's run WASN'T game changing. Successive writers ignored his OC characters like Rogul and Invisible Mafia and retconned the secret identity reveal as well as his take on the Legion and Mongul and reverted Zod back to villainy. Older Jon was and remains a controversial character.No, being lesser makes it lesser. Our argument was, being popular/buzzy doesn't make it better. Which it doesn't. If you like it better, that's fine. But it being more famous or "game-changing" doesn't make your stance more valid than those of us who disagree.
Bendis wrote a "game-changing" run on Superman. It was absolute garbage. "Changing the game" is hardly what defines good writing. Often times, those big moves are used as a crutch for bad writing instead.
BVS didn't have any impact whatsoever. It was not a commercial success and got bad reviews. A niche group dedicated to calling it a masterpiece doesn't make it impactful.Few things have had a bigger impact on comic book movies over the last decade then Batman v. Superman. It's also terrible. Having "impact" can mean a lot of things. Many of them not good. Under the Red Hood wasn't just terrible. It gave us one of the worst characters around. Hush is pure trash.
And yet, remain he does. 5 years later and counting.Older Jon was and remains a controversial character.