🇮🇶 Discussion: Iraq II - Part 2

[Thundercrack85]

The Iraqi state was a British creation. There was never a Iraq before the British took Mesopotamia from the Ottomans. Time has come for the Kurds to have a nation of their own. Also they seem to be the only people willing to protect the Yazidi, Assyrians, and Chaldeans from ISIS.

I don't disagree.

But I understand Obama's predicament. If Iraq collapses, he will be blamed, and all those American soldiers will have died in vain.

At this point, keeping Iraq from collapsing has become an American matter of principle.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't disagree.

But I understand Obama's predicament. If Iraq collapses, he will be blamed, and all those American soldiers will have died in vain.

At this point, keeping Iraq from collapsing has become an American matter of principle.

Those who support Obama will just say Bush should've never invaded Iraq without an exit strategy.

and they would be right..

 

[SV Fan]

Those who support Obama will just say Bush should've never invaded Iraq without an exit strategy

fixed

 

[Cosmic]

ISIL released a video today of a simultaneous beheading of 21 coptic Christians. This apparently took place on the shore of the Mediterranean Sea in Libya.

The narrator speaks English like an American with an Arabic accent.

At this point they know that they're ****ed. I expect they just want to shock as many people as possible before they die.

Check this out: someone apparently leaked an internal ISIL essay arguing for a more aggressive strategy for expansion in Libya.

http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/w...ee/libya-the-strategic-gateway-for-the-is.pdf

I don't think ISIL is ready to cash in their chips, just yet. Rather, they want to extend their range of operations in order to relieve pressure on their central HQs and infrastructure sites. They also are trying to take advantage of recruiting opportunities in places where radical jihadists are based. They have recently been successful in gaining the allegiance of several jihadi militias in Libya.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The fact that ISIS can still recruit people really just makes me wonder how ****ed up the Middle East is.

 

[Cosmic]

They're recruiting people from all over the world.

 

[Marvolo]

ISIS Has Reportedly Burnt 45 People Alive and is Now Harvesting Organs And Selling Them.

Also on Wednesday, a top Iraqi diplomat told world leaders that ISIS is harvesting the organs of its victims to fund it murderous operations, the latest charge of barbarity in a list that already includes mass beheadings, burning people alive, crucifying children and throwing people off of buildings.

The shocking new claim was presented by the Iraqi ambassador to the United Nations, who said bodies have turned up in mass graves bearing surgical incisions and missing organs such as kidneys. Ambassador Mohamed Alhakim leveled the charge as he asked the Security Council to investigate whether harvesting and selling the organs of those it executes. The claim followed an unconfirmed report late Tuesday that as many as 45 people captured by the Islamic State in the Anbar Province town of al-Baghdadi had been rounded up and burned alive.

"We have bodies," Alhakim told his international counterparts. "Come and examine them. It is clear they are missing certain parts."

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/18/isis-reportedly-burns-alive-45-people-in-western-iraqi-town/

Their depravity knows no bounds.

 

[herakles]

Those who support Obama will just say Bush should've never invaded Iraq without an exit strategy.

and they would be right..

I voted for Bush twice but he screwed up when he invaded Iraq. He should not have disbanded the Iraqi army, we should have just told them to turn in their arms and come in once a month to pick up their paychecks. Also we should have negotiated with the tribal leaders right off the bat!

 

[herakles]

They're recruiting people from all over the world.

The EU, US Canada NEED to jail ALL returning ISIS fighters and charge them with murder, terrorism and treason!

 

[Marvolo]

The EU, US Canada NEED to jail ALL returning ISIS fighters and charge them with murder, terrorism and treason!

Agreed. And charge them with war crimes and genocide too. Throw the book at them. Then take them to whichever state has reinstated the firing squad or gas chamber and execute them there. Make an example out of them and see if young people are as willing to run off to the Middle East to play "rebel" with these psychopaths.

 

[Cosmic]

The EU, US Canada NEED to jail ALL returning ISIS fighters and charge them with murder, terrorism and treason!

Yes to some, but not all. Some of them go over there and very quickly realize that they made a mistake and don't belong. They can be rehabilitated, and more importantly, can be used for potentially valuable intel. Like, really, really juicy intel. They can also be used as examples or spokesmen to deter others who are thinking about doing the same thing, but have doubts.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I think we should start targeting their families.

Revoke citizenships.

Junior wants to go wage Jihad back in the old country? Let his parents join him.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yes to some, but not all. Some of them go over there and very quickly realize that they made a mistake and don't belong. They can be rehabilitated, and more importantly, can be used for potentially valuable intel. Like, really, really juicy intel. They can also be used as examples or spokesmen to deter others who are thinking about doing the same thing, but have doubts.

I agree to an extent.

These former ISIS members know first hand why ISIS would be a nightmare to live under.

The only problem is they could still serve ISIS and carry out a terrorist attack.

We would have to watch them very closely and it would drain valuable resources to do so.

 

[Kelly]

I think we should start targeting their families.

Revoke citizenships.

Junior wants to go wage Jihad back in the old country? Let his parents join him.

Noooooo....

We just need to find them a job.

 

[Cosmic]

I agree to an extent.

These former ISIS members know first hand why ISIS would be a nightmare to live under.

The only problem is they could still serve ISIS and carry out a terrorist attack.

We would have to watch them very closely and it would drain valuable resources to do so.

Uncle Sam already runs surveillance on people who haven't even done anything wrong and have no criminal records. I think we can afford to track ex-terrorist recruits. There aren't that many of them, anyway.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I agree to an extent.

These former ISIS members know first hand why ISIS would be a nightmare to live under.

The only problem is they could still serve ISIS and carry out a terrorist attack.

We would have to watch them very closely and it would drain valuable resources to do so.

Those exploding collars that Amanda Waller uses, we've got the technology for those, don't we? Somebody just has to make them.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I think we should start targeting their families.

Revoke citizenships.

Junior wants to go wage Jihad back in the old country? Let his parents join him.

Having a jihadist for a son or daughter is punishment enough.

 

[Victarion]

I think we should start targeting their families.

Revoke citizenships.

Junior wants to go wage Jihad back in the old country? Let his parents join him.

A fairly liberal fellow I'm acquainted with surprised me when he called for capital punishment.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I'm fairly liberal, but if your son joins ISIS, then I think you should be investigated.

 

[Victarion]

I'm all for an investigation into individuals actively seeking propaganda and discussing joining the raving lunatics. And intercepting as many as possible before they leave the country.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm fairly liberal, but if your son joins ISIS, then I think you should be investigated.

But sons and daughters are individuals. They make their own decisions.

You think people who joing the bloods and crips were pushed into by their mothers?

 

[Thundercrack85]

You'd be lying if I you said their mothers had no role in that.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'm fairly liberal, but if your son joins ISIS, then I think you should be investigated.

If your son shoots someone on a street corner for some meth, you will be investigated, for nothing other than due diligence. But if you did nothing to aid him, then nothing will happen to you.

I assume you were speaking out of anger and frustration earlier, because it seemed really unlike you, but punishing someone just because their children did something horrible is really fundamentally against the basic principles of civilized law in the Western World.

 

[PacificBoy]

Yes to some, but not all. Some of them go over there and very quickly realize that they made a mistake and don't belong. They can be rehabilitated, and more importantly, can be used for potentially valuable intel. Like, really, really juicy intel. They can also be used as examples or spokesmen to deter others who are thinking about doing the same thing, but have doubts.

This. We need to counter the oft-captivating voice of extremism, and what better counter-narrative than those who have been there done that and regretted it or have been counseled. Having think tanks like Quilliam around is a start. It's a huge drain of resources yeah but if every single returnee is prosecuted without giving the individual a chance of turning it around, we're just giving ISIS and its ilk another recruitment sound bite.

Imprisoning all returnees without any attempt at deradicalization only yields another recruitment ground in prison.

 

[herakles]

Yes to some, but not all. Some of them go over there and very quickly realize that they made a mistake and don't belong. They can be rehabilitated, and more importantly, can be used for potentially valuable intel. Like, really, really juicy intel. They can also be used as examples or spokesmen to deter others who are thinking about doing the same thing, but have doubts.

Sorry but IF you make a decision to leave your country and go kill then you are a criminal!!!