🥊 The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

[Docker2.0]

Tell that to Buster Mathis after he fought Joe Frazier. Yeah.....it's potentially fatal.....Joe almost killed him. Mathis, BTW, outpointed Joe as an amateur, was very quick on his feet and had very fast hands. He also outweighed Frazier by about 40 pounds. A good 220 pound fighter isn't, IMO, at a disadvantage because of weight. There are disadvantages to being 280 or so.

BTW, I finally got around to watching Canelo v GGG. I can understand why someone would think either should have won, but I don't think anyone has anything to complain about either way.

That's all we was saying. Could have went either way, wouldn't be upset but I felt like Canelo beat GGG.

And about the SHW division, it does make sense. Wilder started out at 218, imagine him at that weight going up against AJ or Vladimir. Middleweight is 160 and people were complaining about Floyd fighting GGG, going up 13 lbs. Haye fighting AJ seems to be much worse.

 

[InCali]

That's all we was saying. Could have went either way, wouldn't be upset but I felt like Canelo beat GGG.

And about the SHW division, it does make sense. Wilder started out at 218, imagine him at that weight going up against AJ or Vladimir. Middleweight is 160 and people were complaining about Floyd fighting GGG, going up 13 lbs. Haye fighting AJ seems to be much worse.

WRT SHW, it's not the same as stepping up 13 to 28 lbs (going from Welter to Middle or Light Heavy. I think people sort of max out when they get over 200+. A solid 220 isn't at that great of a disadvantage against a guy going 250 (Unless you are a TREMENDOUS 250 like the Klitschkos are). I could see a heavyweight like a Joe Frazier (who weighed in at 204 in his prime) knocking the living $#!t out of a very good fighter who goes 250 (he did it).

I'm not saying there are no advantages to being bigger, but I don't think it's as pronounced when you get into the 200+ range. Plus, how many really good fighters are you going to find at 250+? Carrying around the extra weight is also a bit of a burden. There are diminishing returns on extra weight IMO, but I'm sort of an old school traditionalist and think the Super/Jr classifications were established for one reason only.....money.

 

[Docker2.0]

WRT SHW, it's not the same as stepping up 13 to 28 lbs (going from Welter to Middle or Light Heavy. I think people sort of max out when they get over 200+. A solid 220 isn't at that great of a disadvantage against a guy going 250 (Unless you are a TREMENDOUS 250 like the Klitschkos are). I could see a heavyweight like a Joe Frazier (who weighed in at 204 in his prime) knocking the living $#!t out of a very good fighter who goes 250 (he did it).

I'm not saying there are no advantages to being bigger, but I don't think it's as pronounced when you get into the 200+ range. Plus, how many really good fighters are you going to find at 250+? Carrying around the extra weight is also a bit of a burden. There are diminishing returns on extra weight IMO, but I'm sort of an old school traditionalist and think the Super/Jr classifications were established for one reason only.....money.

IDK man. The reason Doentay has advantages is because of his reach. Put him in there with someone his height, like an AJ and the weight thing shows up huge. Wilder has been wobbled before(would't be shocked even Stiverne wins honestly)but I do think it does make a difference even at that weight and size. That's like Kobe fighting Dwight Howard. Sure they are big but look at the muscle difference.

 

[STARMAN]

Wilder was knocked down and supposedly hurt at the end of 2nd round against Harold Sconiers. A fight I've never seen video of. But I've seen a few photos.

 

[InCali]

IDK man. The reason Doentay has advantages is because of his reach. Put him in there with someone his height, like an AJ and the weight thing shows up huge. Wilder has been wobbled before(would't be shocked even Stiverne wins honestly)but I do think it does make a difference even at that weight and size. That's like Kobe fighting Dwight Howard. Sure they are big but look at the muscle difference.

LOL. You could be right. I went from feather to light and that 9 lbs was a big deal. I wouldn't really know for sure because it would take two of me (when I was younger and in shape) to make one of them. Maybe I have that attitude because there just haven't even that many really good 250+ fighters, it maybe there's a reason for that. I'll tell you that I saw Frazier in his prime at 204 and think he'd destroy most of the 250+ guys I've seen. Of course he wasn't your average heavyweight. I still think this is probably more about money than anything else.

 

[Docker2.0]

LOL. You could be right. I went from feather to light and that 9 lbs was a big deal. I wouldn't really know for sure because it would take two of me (when I was younger and in shape) to make one of them. Maybe I have that attitude because there just haven't even that many really good 250+ fighters, it maybe there's a reason for that. I'll tell you that I saw Frazier in his prime at 204 and think he'd destroy most of the 250+ guys I've seen. Of course he wasn't your average heavyweight. I still think this is probably more about money than anything else.

It's something in the food that makes people big as they are now. If you put Frazier and Ali in today's ring at heavyweight, they would look small. Those guys had more skill but athletes today are just bigger, stronger and faster. Can you imagine the Klit's or AJ or even Wilder in the ring with those guys? The size advantage would be crazy! I said all that to say that a super HW division has it's good and bad.

 

[InCali]

It's something in the food that makes people big as they are now. If you put Frazier and Ali in today's ring at heavyweight, they would look small. Those guys had more skill but athletes today are just bigger, stronger and faster. Can you imagine the Klit's or AJ or even Wilder in the ring with those guys? The size advantage would be crazy! I said all that to say that a super HW division has it's good and bad.

The Klitschko's are very good fighters, but I don't know how they'd fare with someone who pushed them hard for 12 rounds. The rest I haven't watched enough to have an informed opinion, but these big guys seem to wear down pretty easily. It's not easy carrying that much weight around. I would put Joe and Muhammad in against just about anyone I've seen recently without a whole lot of worries. Joe would wear down just about any heavyweight and Ali would pick them apart. Joe could get caught with a big punch, but after about 5 or 6, he'd be knocking the crap out of them.

BTW - You'll see what I mean about Frazier if you ever watch the 1st Ali/Frazier fight. Joe was at his absolute peak and the pace he put up for 15 rounds would have withered any other heavyweight I've ever seen. The only guy who would have stood a chance against him (barring a big punch) was in the ring with him. He wasn't ever really quite the same after that effort and pushed himself so hard that he ended up in the hospital.

 

[Iceman]

Joshua Takam on now. Joshua’s nose took damage from a clash with Takam’s head.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Takam was cut on both eyes and ref stops at Round 10. Takam did well to hang on.

 

[AverageMan]

Weak stoppage in the Joshua fight. Takem was OK, taking shots but didn't look to be in any trouble.

 

[Fallen Angel]

If you're not defending yourself the ref has to stop it for the safety of the fighter. Towards the end Takam wasn't and he was cut over both eyes with the left one badly. He also lost every round in that fight and was put down. Even if he did last the full 12 it would be a big margin of victory for AJ,.

 

[B]

If you're not defending yourself the ref has to stop it for the safety of the fighter. Towards the end Takam wasn't and he was cut over both eyes with the left one badly. He also lost every round in that fight and was put down. Even if he did last the full 12 it would be a big margin of victory for AJ,.

AJ I feel was comfortably winning & in control of the fight, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it was a really weak stoppage. Joshua landed a hard jab, cross & then Takam made him miss a further 2 right hands showing good upper body & head movement. The referee only needs to step in & stop a fight for the safety of the fighter if he's taking a prolonged combo of strong hard blows & isn't intelligently defending himself, moving or returning blows.

It shouldn't take away from AJ's performance because he looked solid, but I do agree with AverageMan, I thought it was a soft stoppage.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Wilder vs Stiverne 2 tonight guy's. Stiverne been spending his time at McDonalds if we go by weigh-in pics.

 

[Iceman]

I also agree. AJ probably won every round and would likely have won all the remaining rounds and might also have knocked him out. But that is no reason to stop a fight as otherwise you’d stop nearly all of his or Mike Tyson’s fights before they started. If we stop all fights at the first sign of trouble then they could have guys like us as refs and no advanced skills would be needed to differentiate between situations that look bad and aren’t and those that look bad but are fine. Credit to the guy for bravely lasting so long and credit to AJ for getting past his bust nose early on. He needs more unconventional tests like this. Must say he has been better stamina-wise in the later rounds that’s he’s fought (which were uncharted territory not so long ago) given how jacked his physique is and his lack of experience in those stages.

 

[Iceman]

Wilder vs Stiverne 2 tonight guy's. Stiverne been spending his time at McDonalds if we go by weigh-in pics.

Oh shame. Could have been a good match otherwise.

 

[STARMAN]

Stiverne is 15 pounds heavier for the rematch. Hasn't fought in 2 years.

 

[Iceman]

Stiverne is 15 pounds heavier for the rematch. Hasn't fought in 2 years.

Oh.

And here I was thinking Wilder was finally taking a serious match on lol.

 

[B]

Was that Deontay Wilder fight actually for real?

Why was he so hesitant to answer about going to England to fight AJ? He's selling out 80,000 seat stadiums in England, surely there's potentially more money to be made from a stadium fight in England than anywhere else.. ?

 

[Iceman]

Getting closer to a union fight.

 

[Docker2.0]

Wilder weighed 220 on fight night, while AJ weighed close to 240-250. That's a huge difference.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Wilder vs AJ for 2018 unification fight negotiations have begun according to Eddie Hearn.

 

[Iceman]

Cool. I can't predict the winner of that one.

 

[Docker2.0]

Cool. I can't predict the winner of that one.

I think AJ actually stops Deontay under 5. But if it goes past that, I think Wilder stops him.

 

[Iceman]

I think AJ actually stops Deontay under 5. But if it goes past that, I think Wilder stops him.

That's probably quite a common opinion, yeah. Has Deontay been hurt before? I'd like to see a video of how he reacted. Also AJ has been better than I expected in the very few times he's experienced later rounds. I thought he would totally gas with his physique and lack of experience of long fights. But yeah, he's been in the ring with anyone of this level before. Going to be very interesting. Could see a repeat or 2 of this fight if it's entertaining too.

 

[Docker2.0]

That's probably quite a common opinion, yeah. Has Deontay been hurt before? I'd like to see a video of how he reacted. Also AJ has been better than I expected in the very few times he's experienced later rounds. I thought he would totally gas with his physique and lack of experience of long fights. But yeah, he's been in the ring with anyone of this level before. Going to be very interesting. Could see a repeat or 2 of this fight if it's entertaining too.

Deontay was knocked out in the amateurs and was wobbled in one professional fight that I know of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gpAcMBO-Uc