"1" Change You'd Make For Spidey 3!

[Dragon]

The head of the nail has been hit.

Do this, and not only is the entire core of the movie stronger (and more chewable) but all of the other endlessly repeated gripes disappear (except the butler).

For Venom fans that is... Only thing is, there is nothing more to develop with Venom. What we saw in the movie is the gist of Venom's story.

 

[dodus]

For Venom fans that is... Only thing is, there is nothing more to develop with Venom. What we saw in the movie is the gist of Venom's story.

The gist, yes, but there was no room for it or any of the other story elements to breathe. With less going on, it could have been a better fleshed out movie. Look how they deliciously took their time kicking Peter's ass in SM-2. Sandman just felt extraneous. I don't know a single non SHH person who was compelled by his story arc.

 

[Deaths Head II]

I would have gotten rid of Sandman being Uncle Ben's killer. Cheap way to create character interest for him that also retconned something I thought they pulled off well in the first movie. Also, its a retcon of the character's freakin' origin. I actually like the Sandman, but not enough to change Spidey's history to give him and Pete something to brawl about. Almost as bad as Joker and Bruce Wayne's parents in Burton's Batman.

I really thought it was just going to be a way to get the audience interested in the Sandman when I was watching the trailers. I didn't expect it to be true at all.

 

[BasinCityBlues]

get rid of sandman, leading to taking out a few of the many stories in the movie, making it a better paced movie.

 

[mjbull23]

If I only had one request of Raimi, I'd probably tell him to edit out those goofy dancing scenes, but then I'd think about it and ask him to just recast someone else for the role of Eddie Brock, because everytime I look at Topher Grace I can't take the dude seriously. He is a scrawny little geek, that never should've been cast as Eddie Brock... ugh.

 

[Blader5489]

The head of the nail has been hit.

No, it hasn't.

What people don't seem to realize is that, because of the nature of the symbiote story (especially when incorporating it into a 2 hour movie), Venom cannot be introduced until the third act. It's impossible to do it any sooner than that. You can build up Eddie Brock more (introduce him in the first act, depict his conflict with Peter in the second) but Venom himself cannot show up until the third act. It's not that Raimi hated Venom and went out of his way to give him as little screentime as possible; he was fully cognizant that Venom could only be introduced in the movie's final act (and he has said as much in interviews).

Yet, few people actually understand this, which is why Raimi is constantly attacked for "mistreating" Venom, leading people to believe that the movie would have been much better if Sandman had been cut. The movie can't work without Sandman. Harry is neither a strong enough or nor unique enough villain to carry the movie by himself into the third act.

 

[Spade]

If the film would have been shortened with more emphasis on Peter's struggle in the Black Suit with controlling himself and more emphasis put on building Harry as a vengeful former friend rather than a rival love interest he would have been ample enough for just that to occur. The Sandman as Raimi wanted him to be required that the movie retcon a better first film in a sequence most people in my audience laughed at and emphasize on a daughter who had her most relevant validation for his presence removed from the film. Add to it that the Giant Sandman wasn't needed at all and there's ample enough room for Raimi to have put more into making a stronger character out of Brock, making a Goblin who didn't need romance as a crutch and making a climax that worked just as well.

 

[dodus]

What people don't seem to realize is that, because of the nature of the symbiote story (especially when incorporating it into a 2 hour movie), Venom cannot be introduced until the third act. It's impossible to do it any sooner than that.

No, we realize it. That's actually fine. Would have been awesome and made a hell of a lot more sense. See Chibi's post. Thanks for condescending though.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

The overly dramatic tone.Peter was wallowing too much in his self pitty.

 

[Spider-Bat]

I wouldn't change a damn thing, it was perfect, okay, maybe I'd use the classic black suit and have the costume also change into his regular clothes like in the comic but, oh well, still great!

 

[Blader5489]

No, we realize it. That's actually fine. Would have been awesome and made a hell of a lot more sense. See Chibi's post. Thanks for condescending though.

No, I don't think you realize it. You say it "would have been" better for Venom to be introduced in the third act, and that it would have made "more sense." But that's exactly what happened in the movie! Venom was introduced in the final act of the movie! So when you treat that fact as some sort of conditional, it says to me that you don't "realize it."

And as for Chibi's post, my main gripe with cutting out Sandman is that you lose Peter's motivation for making the initial descent into vengeance; you also lose the part of the story where Peter is able to redeem himself by forgiving. If you can think of another reason to spark Peter's desire for revenge that leads to his eventual redemption, then I would concede that Sandman should have been removed. But that's the problem: outside of Uncle Ben's murder (which, as Raimi put it, was the greatest crime in Peter's eyes), there's really nothing that could set Peter down the path for revenge. And the people who keep saying Sandman should have been cut from the film aren't offering an alternative for it.

The overly dramatic tone.Peter was wallowing too much in his self pitty.

LOL

Did you watch SM2 at all? There's your "Emo Peter."

 

[Jubba]

scrap the music numbers - this includes singing and dancing...and since that frees up some more time, that time can go to the black suit and then to venom being a scary monster that develops on screen, taunting peter and peter's family, and not dying at the end....so yeah, no singing/dancing

 

[Jubba]

No, it hasn't.

What people don't seem to realize is that, because of the nature of the symbiote story (especially when incorporating it into a 2 hour movie), Venom cannot be introduced until the third act. It's impossible to do it any sooner than that. You can build up Eddie Brock more (introduce him in the first act, depict his conflict with Peter in the second) but Venom himself cannot show up until the third act. It's not that Raimi hated Venom and went out of his way to give him as little screentime as possible; he was fully cognizant that Venom could only be introduced in the movie's final act (and he has said as much in interviews).

Yet, few people actually understand this, which is why Raimi is constantly attacked for "mistreating" Venom, leading people to believe that the movie would have been much better if Sandman had been cut. The movie can't work without Sandman. Harry is neither a strong enough or nor unique enough villain to carry the movie by himself into the third act.

true...but death is not the only way to deal with a bad guy like venom...sandman just flew away...the symbiote could have done the same. i really liked how in other stories, once eddie has the symbiote himself, he taunts peter by visiting aunt may and MJ as peter's friend and lurks in the shadows, making peter afraid of a bad guy for once. it's no longer a bad guy out for money or power, just to ruin peter's life...and although not all of this could have been done in the third act of a movie, a door could have been left open to do more in future installments or not even introduce venom in this film once the black suit has been set up and dealt with
ah well, anyway....maybe in 20 years there'll be another spider-man movie series and venom will be a more classic villain by then. who knows.

 

[Spade]

And as for Chibi's post, my main gripe with cutting out Sandman is that you lose Peter's motivation for making the initial descent into vengeance;

But...that's what the symbiote is for. Just because it isn't humanoid doesn't mean it would have been impossible to show his lust for revenge without the Sandman, if not more efficiently without retconning things.

you also lose the part of the story where Peter is able to redeem himself by forgiving.

The fact that he goes to Harry basically on all fours asking for forgiveness and help, saves Mary Jane, tries to save Eddie after Venom kills Harry and resolves things with Harry forgiving him isn't enough?

If you can think of another reason to spark Peter's desire for revenge that leads to his eventual redemption, then I would concede that Sandman should have been removed.

Is the above sufficient, if I may ask?

But that's the problem: outside of Uncle Ben's murder (which, as Raimi put it, was the greatest crime in Peter's eyes), there's really nothing that could set Peter down the path for revenge. And the people who keep saying Sandman should have been cut from the film aren't offering an alternative for it.

If the above isn't sufficient, here's a thought: if they would have moved the festival to the beginning, had Spidey confront the Goblin instead of the Sandman, and then have the symbiote bond with him after his fight with Harry in the alleyway there would be enough pre-existing tension to make a retaliation on Peter's part after Harry's frustrating refusal to believe him a believable and working one within the film. The theme of revenge could have stemmed from Harry making a move on Mary Jane, and for the attacks already made on him (with Harry's reciprocating reasoning being the obvious reason of his father's death). The underlying build could have been Peter's actions under the symbiote's influence leading to Eddie's fall from grace, and the climax being the two forgiving each other to confront Venom and save their mutual friend.

Did you watch SM2 at all? There's your "Emo Peter."

I don't really feel this film had an Emo Peter so much as a "Dark Peter gone wrong". The hair-raking wasn't needed, as was some of the Dark Peter sequences, and the dancing in the club should have been cut. SM2 had emotion and conflict brewing in Peter, which differed from the really bad attempt on Raimi's part to adapt SM:TAS' approach (which mainly stemmed from his inability to see the symbiote as a catalyst for the change in Peter's personality and the useless narcisissm Peter indulges in during the first act diluting the symbiote's changes).

 

[Fran]

No disco dancing Peter.

That is all.

 

[Spade]

Same complaint for Knocked Up, 'fran?

 

[Fran]

Not at all.

That scene in Knocked Up was actually somewhat funny/pivotal.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Let's just say that Raimi grabbed you out of a crowd, asking you just one thing (*and only "one" thing*) you would have liked him to of changed for Spider-Man 3??
?

Leave Venom out. If he can't be done correctly, don't do him at all.

 

[3dman27]

Leave Venom out. ... don't do him at all.

thats how i'dhave done it
i might have said have dark pete trick mj into provoking a fight with gwen getting her fired but i understand ms. howard was expecting a baby during shooting and endangering her like that would be reckless endangerment

 

[<(o_o)>]

Although I have only seen a crappy bootleg copy of Spider-Man 3, some of it just felt like one big sloppy mess. There was a few to many melodramatic speeches about love & marriage from Aunt May although Mr. Ditkovitch's advice to Peter about his relationship was funny. Venom was a wuss, he might have slapped & knocked Spider-Man around a little but it never felt like he had that much of an upper hand on Spider-Man. Spider-Man should of had an individual battle with Venom before the battle royale took place to show just how brutal he can be. I also hated how the symbiote would keep retracting to show Eddie's face plus Giant Sandman in the end battle looked like a huge claymation/ stop motion animation figure. Giant Sandman would have been much better if he actually resembled a giant version of Flint Marko.

 

[Qwerty©]

One change i'd make to Spider-Man 3 is making Flint Marko the actual killer. That was completely unnecessary.

 

[dodus]

No, I don't think you realize it. You say it "would have been" better for Venom to be introduced in the third act, and that it would have made "more sense." But that's exactly what happened in the movie! Venom was introduced in the final act of the movie! So when you treat that fact as some sort of conditional, it says to me that you don't "realize it."

Refrain from telling me what I do and don't realize. I said I was fine with Venom being introduced in the third act, being the only logical way to execute the symbiote storyline in one movie. That doesn't mean we needed Sandman. Learn to read between the lines and follow a train of thought. As for the rest of your post, what Chibi said.

 

[dodus]

If you can think of another reason to spark Peter's desire for revenge that leads to his eventual redemption, then I would concede that Sandman should have been removed. But that's the problem: outside of Uncle Ben's murder (which, as Raimi put it, was the greatest crime in Peter's eyes), there's really nothing that could set Peter down the path for revenge.

This is the ace card you Sandman apologists always play: "Oh, if Sandman is so unnecessary, how about YOU come up with ANOTHER scenario that would lead to Peter mourning the loss of his uncle while webslinging upside-down filled with revenge on 42nd street at 5:00pm after battling three times with Harry........"

First of all, we're not screenwriters paid to sit around all day exercising writing talent. While we're tossing around ultimatums, sure, if you want to pay me $300/day, I'll come up with a Peter revenge motivation that will knock your socks off. Probably take about a week or so.

Secondly, it's just plain closed-minded to suggest that there is only one way to make "x" happen in a movie. Have some faith in the creativity of your fellow man. It's not a lack of imagination to say "I can't come up with any other scenarios myself," but it's a huge lack of imagination to assign the same scarcity of imagination to everyone else.




And who said anything about Emo Peter? Whoa, I just got knocked over by the sweeping generalization.

 

[Chris B]

I would use the Vulture as the third villain.

 

[fallenAngel]

The other is when Sandman pounds what he thinks is Spidey with a huge sand-hammer, and the thing suddenly opens up an impossibly big mouth lined with razor sharp slavering fangs and hisses at him. Sandy hurls the terrifying looking thing away from him where it lands on a nearby wall and then...Marko just turns and begins to stroll liesurely in the other direction.
I guess if I'm forced I'd have to pick the latter just for it being soooo unnatural. I don't care WHAT power I had, if I happened upon Venom, I certainly wouldn't turn my back on him!

Yeah. I've never gotten this part. It was so strange.

also about the mask thing. This is why I laughed at everyone who was getting all bent out of shape over Harry not having a Goblin mask. It was obvious he would never wear it anyway.

I wanted more Black Spider man. I would have him stopping a car jacking when he first got the suit. A parralel to Uncle Ben, since he was all mad about the Sandman thing at that point.

If it were something big. I would say, get rid of Harry's amnesia. It doesn't really bother me, but Peter warning MJ of Harry all the while pushing her away from him into Harry's arms would have been a lot better.