2011/2012 NBA Thread: The Heat is On

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I guess I agree, with most of your assessment. But as far as Shaq goes, it just bothers me that nobody ever tries to discredit him for never playing without another superstar perimeter player. Not just a good player, SUPERSTAR player. Ever. He never, ever was on a bad team without one and took them anywhere. Not once.

But with Shaq, it's ok. He's big, and goofy and tells jokes so it's fine. When people rate Kobe though, they view that as some sort of knock, or crutch. Besides the fact that they both averaged virtually the same amount of points during their run, the best player on the opposing team was almost always NOT a Center. Kobe, at that time, was also one of the best perimeter defenders, and when it came to the WCF, where the real NBA title was decided, Kobe annihilated the Spurs, Blazers & Kings. Every time.

On the flipside, although Jordan was a great defender himself, he also had the luxury of Scottie Pippen, who usually took the other team's best player. Just ask Magic Johnson about that. But for MJ, he "made" Pippen, lmao, and everybody else. It's borderline insane to suggest IMO, and more than a little disrespectful to a team that only lost one more game without him than they did with him, the first time he hung it up.

Agree with your points on Shaq. There's Penny, Kobe, Wade & Lebron. He's had superstars at every stop. Not to mention his pit stop in Beantown.

I do tire of the constant Jordan comparisons, I'll admit. Not just with Kobe but now with LeBron. And Pippen often gets short changed when Jordan's greatness is discussed, like your '91 finals reference. Being angry and sticking every little slight (or perceived slight) on your fridge door is not the only way a guy can be great. That tired old narrative has run it's course imo, and frankly it's getting boring. Really boring.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I hate the comparisons of Kobe to Jordan, but I've eased off my hate of Kobe in recent years, oddly enough, beginning with his beatdown of my Magic in the 2009 Finals.

I just feel that Kobe has matured as a player, and really begun to show some true "clutch" moments. Before that, all I saw was a guy jacking up as many shots as humanly possible in 48 minutes, the actual decency of that shot be damned, if Kobe could jack it up, it was going up.

But his last 2 championships, particularly the last one against Boston, he eased off of that a bit, and became more of the "playmaker" that makes everyone around him better. I just don't have the same bitterness and hatred towards Kobe and the Lakers that I used to.

Probably helps that I've developed bigger beefs with Boston and Miami in recent years as well.

There's truth to the Shaq point as well. He's played with pretty much all of the best wingmen in his time with Penny, Kobe, Wade, and LeBron. There's definitely something to be said of that as well.

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

Chimin in with a couple Kobe thoughts while we're on the subject (Lakers fan since childhood):

1. I think Kobe regressed last year a little. The last two championship runs he really knew when to assert himself into the game (especially the second championship year, in the regular season he hit like 8 game winners). Then the year they got swept by Dallas he was bugged by injuries the entire year and it seemed (to me anyway) like age had caught up with him and he was entering the 18-20ppg zone.

Then he goes to Germany, has that weird thing done to his knee and he has his lift back. But I think he dominated the ball way too much last year (as a result of losing the triangle and Mike Brown just being a horrible offensive coach).

2. I think Nash is going to be great with Kobe. Signing him is like signing an offensive coordinator. Kobe won't have the ball in his hand all the time and he won't have to create something with 4 seconds on the shot clock. Nash dominates the ball, gets the bigs involved, allows Kobe to just receive it in the elbow, I think it's going to work great.

3. I don't think we can state enough how great Kobe's work ethic. You might dislike the man, and that's fine I'm not out to argue for everybody to be a Kobe fan. But even Jordan admitted it, Kobe's the closest comparison to him because Kobe's puts in the work.

 

[Scrandy Randy]

Dwight has said he's open to signing an extension if he's traded to the Lakers. Even without I say we still go for him, it still gives us the best chance of getting another chip and he already lives here in the off season, I can't see him coming here and then still wanting to leave. Him saying he would sign an extension just makes it that much better.

I was doubtful about how excited everyone was getting when we acquired Nash but if we get Howard and can boast a starting lineup of Nash - Kobe - Artest - Gasol - Howard I have no problem saying we're favorites for the Championship. Not to mention the huge bench upgrade we got in Jamison and if we can resign Jordan Hill... man.

Make it happen!

 

[Docker2.0]

Chimin in with a couple Kobe thoughts while we're on the subject (Lakers fan since childhood):

1. I think Kobe regressed last year a little. The last two championship runs he really knew when to assert himself into the game (especially the second championship year, in the regular season he hit like 8 game winners). Then the year they got swept by Dallas he was bugged by injuries the entire year and it seemed (to me anyway) like age had caught up with him and he was entering the 18-20ppg zone.

Then he goes to Germany, has that weird thing done to his knee and he has his lift back. But I think he dominated the ball way too much last year (as a result of losing the triangle and Mike Brown just being a horrible offensive coach).

2. I think Nash is going to be great with Kobe. Signing him is like signing an offensive coordinator. Kobe won't have the ball in his hand all the time and he won't have to create something with 4 seconds on the shot clock. Nash dominates the ball, gets the bigs involved, allows Kobe to just receive it in the elbow, I think it's going to work great.

3. I don't think we can state enough how great Kobe's work ethic. You might dislike the man, and that's fine I'm not out to argue for everybody to be a Kobe fan. But even Jordan admitted it, Kobe's the closest comparison to him because Kobe's puts in the work.

Nobody hates Kobe, truly anyway. I just think he's black hole once he gets the ball. I think the game against OKC when he lost the game then blames Gasol and the media backed him spoke volumes about the guy. He's selfish, not a team player, a cry baby(if things are going well, he's cool but as soon as they go bad, he wants to be traded), self absorbed, self obsessed, and that's on the court. I don't have to bring up Denver, nor his Wilt Chamberlain like status while he's married. With that being said, he does have a great ethic.

 

[Darthphere]

Chimin in with a couple Kobe thoughts while we're on the subject (Lakers fan since childhood):

1. I think Kobe regressed last year a little. The last two championship runs he really knew when to assert himself into the game (especially the second championship year, in the regular season he hit like 8 game winners). Then the year they got swept by Dallas he was bugged by injuries the entire year and it seemed (to me anyway) like age had caught up with him and he was entering the 18-20ppg zone.

Then he goes to Germany, has that weird thing done to his knee and he has his lift back. But I think he dominated the ball way too much last year (as a result of losing the triangle and Mike Brown just being a horrible offensive coach).

2. I think Nash is going to be great with Kobe. Signing him is like signing an offensive coordinator. Kobe won't have the ball in his hand all the time and he won't have to create something with 4 seconds on the shot clock. Nash dominates the ball, gets the bigs involved, allows Kobe to just receive it in the elbow, I think it's going to work great.

3. I don't think we can state enough how great Kobe's work ethic. You might dislike the man, and that's fine I'm not out to argue for everybody to be a Kobe fan. But even Jordan admitted it, Kobe's the closest comparison to him because Kobe's puts in the work.

That's not a new development.

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

^True, but I think it was more out of necessity than anything else. I think he allows Nash to handle the rock this year and goes back to "pick your spot" Kobe.

Docker, are you a Knicks fan? (Guessing off your sig). If so, how do you feel about the Lin signing? Out of curiosity I checked out a Knicks and it's civil war on there.

 

[Erzengel]

 

[runawayboulder]

LMAO, that's funny.....but sad at the same time.

 

[Doc Samson]

Nobody hates Kobe, truly anyway. I just think he's black hole once he gets the ball. I think the game against OKC when he lost the game then blames Gasol and the media backed him spoke volumes about the guy. He's selfish, not a team player, a cry baby(if things are going well, he's cool but as soon as they go bad, he wants to be traded), self absorbed, self obsessed, and that's on the court. I don't have to bring up Denver, nor his Wilt Chamberlain like status while he's married. With that being said, he does have a great ethic.

And it's people like you that make fans of the guy like me defend him so hard. Because when Durant picked off his pass the game before, EVERYBODY blamed Kobe for the loss, even though they were already down at that point.

On the flipside when Gasol turned the ball over, the game was tied and you found some way to blame Kobe for that too. Why does Pau get a pass?

When he's not "the blackhole" like game 7 against the Suns in '06, then they call him selfish and trying to prove a point. When he goes out and scores 43 in the closeout game this past year against OKC, he's called selfish still, by people like you.

The bottomline is the man, and his "selfish" ways got him to three straight NBA Finals twice, 7 Finals appearances overall, and 5 rings. And he might not be done. It's something you have to deal with, not him, because somehow such a horrible teammate made it work more than anyone else in his generation.

 

[L.A.]

The Celtics have agreed to acquire Courtney Lee in a sign-and-trade with the Rockets.

Boston will send back JaJuan Johnson in return.

Via Marc J. Spears/Yahoo! Sports (via Twitter)

 

[Doc Samson]

I'm telling people, Boston might not be done just yet. I can see them getting back to the ECF. If they had Bradley this past year they might've pulled it out.

 

[Docker2.0]

And it's people like you that make fans of the guy like me defend him so hard. Because when Durant picked off his pass the game before, EVERYBODY blamed Kobe for the loss, even though they were already down at that point.

On the flipside when Gasol turned the ball over, the game was tied and you found some way to blame Kobe for that too. Why does Pau get a pass?

When he's not "the blackhole" like game 7 against the Suns in '06, then they call him selfish and trying to prove a point. When he goes out and scores 43 in the closeout game this past year against OKC, he's called selfish still, by people like you.

The bottomline is the man, and his "selfish" ways got him to three straight NBA Finals twice, 7 Finals appearances overall, and 5 rings. And he might not be done. It's something you have to deal with, not him, because somehow such a horrible teammate made it work more than anyone else in his generation.

The Lakers were up 7. Are you in that much denial that Kobe cost them the game? Again, if Kobe manned up and admitted he lost it, I'd be fine but he blames his teammates! Even Heath Ledger's Joker thinks it's kind of low.....and that's coming from a psychopath.

 

[Docker2.0]

^True, but I think it was more out of necessity than anything else. I think he allows Nash to handle the rock this year and goes back to "pick your spot" Kobe.

Docker, are you a Knicks fan? (Guessing off your sig). If so, how do you feel about the Lin signing? Out of curiosity I checked out a Knicks and it's civil war on there.

I wanted the Knicks to re-sign him but I do think it was kind of low the way that both sides handled it. I think it hurts both sides because Linsanity is not going to be as big as it was in NYC. Plus I think guys are going to target Lin and look to torture him because of Linsanity. I wish he would have stayed and learned under Kidd but he didn't. Now he has to see Westbrook, Paul, and Kobe(the same Kobe he scored 38 on and I'm sure Kobe won't forget)and I think they will just........well, let's just say even if he Lin scores 20, it won't do any good if his teams loses by 30 and his man scores 40. But I think both sides lose.

 

[Docker2.0]

Funny thing about the Lin thing here in the NYC area is there seems to be no middle ground. Either you love or you hate the move. People are literally ready to fist fight when talking about this. And it's crazy because he really only played like 20 games. I don't think it's enough time but I wanted him re-signed.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Well, this sucks:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olymp...-john-tesh-roundball-rock-162512653--oly.html

It is one of the greatest sports TV themes of all time.

[YT]fZKX-cf_p90[/YT]

 

[Scrandy Randy]

Jordan Hill resigns with the Lakers for two years.

Sacre/Hill - Jamison/Hill - Ebanks/Jamison - ?????/Eyenga - Blake/Morris

Lakers bench slowly taking shape. Still not good, but definitely an improvement over last year.

 

[Spiderine]

Kobe had some real top name talent along side him during his various title runs. Every championship player is going to have "help", but Jordan had one Hall of Famer beside him, his entire run, in Scottie Pippen, someone who was largely made by playing alongside Jordan. Kobe played alongside Hall of Famers that could be the faces of their own franchises with or without Kobe, and in 3 different instances, were.

Jordan also had one of the games all time greatest rebounders who happens to be in the hall as well in Dennis Rodman. And do look at Horace Grant's contributions as well for the first three titles. Jordan had plenty of help during his title runs.

 

[Docker2.0]

My gawd is Carmelo getting killed by the NYC media. It's no wonder Lebron didn't want to come here. Dude is a winner but they are really destroying him because of Lin. It's crazy!

 

[runawayboulder]

They did the same thing to Ewing for years. You got to have thick skin if you want to play in NY. The media can be especially rough on NBA players and NFL players.

 

[SpideyVille]

Funny thing about the Lin thing here in the NYC area is there seems to be no middle ground. Either you love or you hate the move. People are literally ready to fist fight when talking about this. And it's crazy because he really only played like 20 games. I don't think it's enough time but I wanted him re-signed.

I just feel like its another one of those things that the media was blowing out of proportion. Personally, I don't see Lin because a relevant player in the league past next season. Either he'll get hurt again or he just won't perform at the same level. I hope I'm wrong, and I was definitely surprised to see how big he got and how well he played after seeing his first couple of appearances last season. But I think the Knicks made the right move because they would've been overpaying for something that was being way overpriced by Houston. Not to mention, he didn't really seem to fit in with Woodson's plan for the team, so I think the Knicks will be just as decent as they were towards the end of last season.

 

[Docker2.0]

I just feel like its another one of those things that the media was blowing out of proportion. Personally, I don't see Lin because a relevant player in the league past next season. Either he'll get hurt again or he just won't perform at the same level. I hope I'm wrong, and I was definitely surprised to see how big he got and how well he played after seeing his first couple of appearances last season. But I think the Knicks made the right move because they would've been overpaying for something that was being way overpriced by Houston. Not to mention, he didn't really seem to fit in with Woodson's plan for the team, so I think the Knicks will be just as decent as they were towards the end of last season.

This is EXACTLY how I see it playing out. He played under Dantoni's system and pg's always thrive under them. Plus this is the first time he really got pt and he broke down after only 20 games. I think the poison pill that Houston attempted to give the Knicks is going to come back as a suicide pill. I think with the Knicks, he had stars that he could deflect some of the attention away from him in Amare and Carmelo but with the Rockets, he's the sole star so all eyes will be on him and I can see stars looking to make an example of his weak defense just to expose him. I don't see him doing well in Houston at all.

 

[Darthphere]

My gawd is Carmelo getting killed by the NYC media. It's no wonder Lebron didn't want to come here. Dude is a winner but they are really destroying him because of Lin. It's crazy!

Oh really? What did he win?

 

[runawayboulder]

A Nation Championship with Syracuse.....a decade ago.

 

[Darthphere]

Oh we count that now?