2011 NFL Thread: The Lazarus Season - Part 2

[Matt]

That poster makes no sense. that's from the game where Staff led an insane comeback and beat the Browns with basically one functioning shoulder on the last play of the game. Unless of course we're talking about people somehow denying that he can be an elite QB in the league?.

Go watch Smallville!

And no one is denying that he could be an elite quarterback. All that anyone is saying is that it is premature to call him one.

You clearly didn't watch the game. The Lions dominated the Bucs without even opening up its offense.



This is going to make this year all the more sweeter.

I mean you thought Peyton Manning would retire after missing a game because the only reason he was playing football is to break Favre's streak. You are clueless man, lol.

Actually, I said if he sits out for an entire season it will affect his play and force him to retire. Manning has said that his consecutive game streak was the most important thing to him. That is all that I was pointing out. Oh Normy, you're priceless though.

 

[StorminNorman]

Go watch Smallville!

And no one is denying that he could be an elite quarterback. All that anyone is saying is that it is premature to call him one.

Not if you know what you are talking about.

 

[Wheels]

What exactly has Stafford done to be labeled as elite at this point?

 

[StorminNorman]

Been awesome?

 

[StorminNorman]

He has played at an elite level. The problem is that he has played four games in the past two seasons. Now obviously you have to stay healthy (though Stafford is no more likely to be injured after those injuries), but Stafford plays the game at an elite level.

 

[Poeman]

He has played at an elite level. The problem is that he has played four games in the past two seasons. Now obviously you have to stay healthy (though Stafford is no more likely to be injured after those injuries), but Stafford plays the game at an elite level.

I like Stafford...But you are crazy.

Stafford is not an elite quarterback at this point.

Also, the only thing he is awesome at is breaking his arm into two pieces

 

[Rowsdower!]

I don't know, I like Stafford but I think you have to play in more games before it can be said that you're playing at an elite level. There have been too many "one-hit wonder" QBs in this league that benefited from defenses not having enough film on them or not expecting them to throw all that much. I think Stafford is the real deal, but I need to see him put up a string of consistent performances (and last a whole season) before I'd call him elite.

I hope that he is though, or at least turns out to be a really great player, because Detroit deserves a winner after decades of sh**.

 

[steintym]

Norm, where are you picking the Lions to finish in the division? Conference? Not being an ***, serious question.

 

[Wheels]

I'm not willing to throw the word elite around like it means nothing. If Stafford is elite then I guess Schaub is too.

 

[Quetzal]

People have trouble calling Big Ben elite. There is no way to call Stafford an elite... yet. He definetly can grow into an elite QB, but still waaaay too early to tell.

 

[Wheels]

People have trouble calling Big Ben elite. There is no way to call Stafford an elite... yet. He definetly can grow into an elite QB, but still waaaay too early to tell.

Hell, I have trouble calling Ben elite. When I think elite QBs I think about Montana, Marino, Manning, and Brady.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

6-10! (7-9 if you consider a TD to be a TD)

My bad. Was going off memory rather than look at last years standings. I thought it was a TD week 1. They got screwed on that game.

That is all fine and good but you can play as well as you want and it doesn't mean a damn thing if you only win six games.

If you look at it from a certain point of view, it does mean something. The Lions in 2008 were 0-16, 2009 they were 2-14 and 2010 they were 6-10. It means they're improving. Might not be as fast as they intended, but they're putting together....shall I say it? An elite team. Last year they played the two best teams in the NFC (Green Bay and Chicago) right down to the wire without Stafford. They also took one of the best teams in the AFC (Jets) to OT. Honestly, I think the Lions could easily start 6-0 this year.

 

[BlackLantern]

we still on this whole "elite" thing....why is this so important to people? is it some weird validation thing going on?

 

[StorminNorman]

Norm, where are you picking the Lions to finish in the division? Conference? Not being an ***, serious question.

I think the Lions and Packers will fight for the division with it possibly coming down to the last game of the season. I think the Packers and Lions will probably split their games.

The Bears are a real wild card though. I don't like their offensive line at all (which is especially bad in this division), and I have a lot of worries about the age of their defense - but the team is full of contract year players, which I really like from a motivation stand point. The key for that team is Urlacher, if he stays healthy, they will be in it too.

I'm not willing to throw the word elite around like it means nothing. If Stafford is elite then I guess Schaub is too.

Different players. Schaub is very good. Very, very good. But there isn't anything special about him. He has a great offensive around him, and he gets the ball where it needs to be - but he isn't the guy that will consistently make things happen on his own. Stafford is. He has the special arm, he has special intelligence - he is simply a special player. Always has been. The Lions would have gone 0-16 without him 2009.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

we still on this whole "elite" thing....why is this so important to people? is it some weird validation thing going on?

You know as well as I do that when it's used so freely, it loses all meaning. Everyone can't be elite. Good QBs can't be elite. Really good isn't elite either.

It's a combination of freakish natural skill, high football IQ, a Clutch gene, being able to make those around you better, marquee victories / Championships, & most importantly, maintaining a consistently high level of production.

The only real interchangeable value here is the Championships, and that's more the exception than the rule.

 

[Wheels]

Yeah Jay Cutler has a special arm and is a smart guy, so what?

 

[StorminNorman]

You know as well as I do that when it's used so freely, it loses all meaning. Everyone can't be elite. Good QBs can't be elite. Really good isn't elite either.

It's a combination of freakish natural skill, high football IQ, a Clutch gene, being able to make those around you better, marquee victories / Championships, & most importantly, maintaining a consistently high level of production.

The only real interchangeable value here is the Championships, and that's more the exception than the rule.

Stafford has all of that, the matter of consistency is simply subject to the number of games he has played. Stafford is plays like an elite QB, he has all the individual talents you mentioned, after 16+ games this season he will have the track record that makes recognizing his ability easier.

But, again, it is not the record that makes a QB elite, it is the elite QB that makes the record.

 

[StorminNorman]

Yeah Jay Cutler has a special arm and is a smart guy, so what?

All you have to do is watch the two to see the difference. Stafford elevates his team much more than Cutler does.

Cutler is a good QB, a very good QB. But he lacks the it factor.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Stafford has all of that, the matter of consistency is simply subject to the number of games he has played. Stafford is plays like an elite QB, he has all the individual talents you mentioned, after 16+ games this season he will have the track record that makes recognizing his ability easier.

But, again, it is not the record that makes a QB elite, it is the elite QB that makes the record.

You keep using this as an excuse for Stafford's lack of a resume but by this flawed logic, there are hundreds of 'Elite' QBs out there that never made a team or played enough games for others to recognize their greatness.

 

[StorminNorman]

You keep using this as an excuse for Stafford's lack of a resume but by this flawed logic, there are hundreds of 'Elite' QBs out there that never made a team or played enough games for others to recognize their greatness.

Now THAT is flawed logic, my friend. You act as if Stafford has bounced around the league for years, never making the the field to show off his moves - or if he was some overlooked gem that fell into the Lions lap in the sixth round. Stafford was projected as a number 1 overall draft prospect coming out of high school. He owned the Lions from his first workout.

As I have said, in order to get recognized as an elite QB - you have to do it on the field. But recognition is not the same as being (for example, McNabb was recognized as a greater QB than he was - it didn't change his actual ability).

I'm done talking about it (though not done responding), but when we reach the end of the season and Stafford has 4,500 yards and case for NFL MVP you will see that I was right. I would love to see him get a chance at your Ravens in Indianapolis.

 

[Hush]

By stormin's "Logic" Bradford, Newton and Clausen are elite.

 

[Darthphere]

I like how Norm has two levels:

Very very very very very very very good

and

Elite.

 

[The Morningstar]

Stafford isn't elite. Or anywhere near it. The only "elite" QBs are Brady, Manning and i'd say Rodgers over Brees.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Stafford CAN BE elite. He is not elite yet.

 

[The Morningstar]

Yea, the potential is definitely there.