4 Police Officers Shot Dead At Coffee Shop

[Ace of Knaves]

Essex Police=People who were bullied at school and now have a bit of power.

 

[mrvlknight21]

I'm British as well and can say that whe Ace Of Knaves says Essex cops are scumbags they are indeed scumbags.



http://www.met.police.uk/history/oldbill.htm

Now you know and knowing is half the battle

Ha. Nice link. Thanks!

 

[huskerwebhead]

My state does not use the death penalty but Virginia does and I had the chance of witnessing an execution not to long ago. I don't support the death penalty and I won't, watching someone die makes you feel bad even if the person that died was a horrible person.

I support the death penalty. There are some people that simply should not be a part of this world. The difficult thing about the death penalty, however, is being 100% sure the person being put to death is guilty. There have been numerous cases of people having been found innocent through DNA evidence or something that while they were on death row.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Wow! There is a few reasons why police are called old bill.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

No, you shouldn't be angry at a suspect. They're innocent till proven guilty. Like I said, if you kill them out of spite and you might have killed an innocent man. It's not only unprofessional, it's bad logic.

You try telling yourself that when your close friend has been murdered in cold blood, and the man who stands in front of you may have done it, and is wielding a gun ten feet from your face.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Side! That's a good one.

Ehh I support the death penalty, but only in extreme cases such as this and when there is either irrefutable proof or they confess.

I'll move back to England, and we'll popularize that term over there. Maybe we'll get a Wikipedia article written about us.

 

[Hound55]

*ahem* You know that I'm a Detective now.

God help us if Batman or Hal Jordan ever turn bad and go serial killer... Evidence would go missing from crime scenes repeatedly...

Sarah Palin can can run the prison or is giving her an army of the worst criminals in the country a bad idea?

What? She's gone from ex Vice-Presidential candidate for the Republicans to actual Presidential Candidate for the Republicans...?

I feel suspected cop killers are more likely to be shot dead. That's not the same as saying cops are bad at their jobs. Some people feel it's justifiable others feel it's human nature. It is open for interpretation.

Speculating on how the suspect will be apprehended is not a "dick move" even if you think the outcome will be deadly.

The numbers would get fudged due in large part to the fact that cop-killers are a hell of a lot less-likely to be willing to be taken in and escalate it to higher and higher levels that the police are forced to match with force.

I'm British as well and can say that whe Ace Of Knaves says Essex cops are scumbags they are indeed scumbags.



http://www.met.police.uk/history/oldbill.htm

Now you know and knowing is half the battle

They hand pick the ******** who have the tough job of keeping Ace in line...

Nobody volunteers for that thankless job...

Essex Police=People who were bullied at school and now have a bit of power.

And here I was thinking that all of those people became sports referees...

You try telling yourself that when your close friend has been murdered in cold blood, and the man who stands in front of you may have done it, and is wielding a gun ten feet from your face.

Yup...

Thing is, that person who you've just seen murder someone you've known for years is still technically merely a suspect in society's eyes regardless of whether or not you KNOW he did it...

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Yup...

Thing is, that person who you've just seen murder someone you've known for years is still technically merely a suspect in society's eyes regardless of whether or not you KNOW he did it...

Again, I completely agree, but people have been just trashing cops for their want to bust the suspects, without considering the circumstances, coming off like cop-haters. In all honesty, I don't agree with the death penalty, but I can't honestly say I wouldn't be pressed to shoot the suspect had I been in that situation. And really, I'd even go so far as to argue most others who say they wouldn't are either liars, or have never been in a similar situation.

 

[Hound55]

Again, I completely agree, but people have been just trashing cops for their want to bust the suspects, without considering the circumstances, coming off like cop-haters. In all honesty, I don't agree with the death penalty, but I can't honestly say I wouldn't be pressed to shoot the suspect had I been in that situation. And really, I'd even go so far as to argue most others who say they wouldn't are either liars, or have never been in a similar situation.

Oops, that post was supposed to have both your post and the one you quoted.

So as to inform him that often the "society says he's just a suspect" is someone you know for a fact just shot someone you know dead.

 

[Majic Walrus]

I support the death penalty. There are some people that simply should not be a part of this world. The difficult thing about the death penalty, however, is being 100% sure the person being put to death is guilty. There have been numerous cases of people having been found innocent through DNA evidence or something that while they were on death row.

See this is one of my reasons for not supporting the death penalty. There can be no margin for error when killing someone. And frankly the justice system isn't that good. I work in the justice system, I know that everyone from cops, to attorneys, to judges make mistakes.

God help us if Batman or Hal Jordan ever turn bad and go serial killer... Evidence would go missing from crime scenes repeatedly...

I don't think I'm good enough to beat Bats or Hal anyway.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Oops, that post was supposed to have both your post and the one you quoted.

So as to inform him that often the "society says he's just a suspect" is someone you know for a fact just shot someone you know dead.

Gotcha.

See this is one of my reasons for not supporting the death penalty. There can be no margin for error when killing someone. And frankly the justice system isn't that good. I work in the justice system, I know that everyone from cops, to attorneys, to judges make mistakes.

Yeah, I had to give a speech regarding the abolition of the death penalty a few weeks ago. Some of the **** I found out while researching it was pretty crazy, like the amount of money it takes to kill each convict, the amount of convicts who were actually innocent, etc. "No cruel and unusual punishment" my ass.

 

[Hound55]

See this is one of my reasons for not supporting the death penalty. There can be no margin for error when killing someone. And frankly the justice system isn't that good. I work in the justice system, I know that everyone from cops, to attorneys, to judges make mistakes.

Everyone except opinionated little pricks sitting on their high horse working in records correcting everyone else's errors, finding the data, going in to work thanklessly facing a world where there could be a potentially near-fatal paper cut on every corner...

And I just needed to "fix" your post a little.

 

[Majic Walrus]

You said you work for the SAPOL. Are you a desk jockey?

 

[katie_girl09]

Flatfoot? Were you born in the 1940s?

You caught me.

Wanna watch some Matlock with me?

 

[Majic Walrus]

Ahhhh!!! No!

 

[katie_girl09]

I promise I won't be able to control myself. And when you see my new silk stockings, you won't either, sonny!

 

[A&W]

No, people are harping on you because YOU are OK with it. You know it's wrong but "oh what the hell...I'm justified in my hate." It's similar to someone who's had a bad run in with Asians and then assuming all Asians are bad. But, it's OK, cause they know it's wrong. WTH??

I don't want to go on forever and ever and get all angry and make others angry because some of what I have said is offensive, but no I never said I was okay with it. Saying I think it's okay and saying I think it's wrong are complete opposites.

You do realize that your acting nervous is something that Police Officers, as well as security guards, military police, etc. are trained to look for? Somebody acting "squirrely." It's generally a sign of guilt and raises suspicion. Again, I'd suggest a ride along or something that would bring you into non-confrontational contact with the Police to ease this hatred you have.

[/QUOTE]my nervousness is the result of numerous experiences I had prior to being like that. I do understand why they would think you might have something to hide by being nervous, but that is no excuse for them breaking the law. You can't excuse their actions with my nervousness.

I still do believe that the majority of cops are criminals. but I also know I should not hate all of them because the good ones are being generalized with the bad.

it's a feeling that I'm not proud of, and I do regret the way I worder my first post in this thread. I shouldn't have mentioned that the cops probably did something wrong.

 

[mrvlknight21]

screwed up

 

[mrvlknight21]

I don't want to go on forever and ever and get all angry and make others angry because some of what I have said is offensive, but no I never said I was okay with it. Saying I think it's okay and saying I think it's wrong are complete opposites.

my nervousness is the result of numerous experiences I had prior to being like that. I do understand why they would think you might have something to hide by being nervous, but that is no excuse for them breaking the law. You can't excuse their actions with my nervousness.

I still do believe that the majority of cops are criminals. but I also know I should not hate all of them because the good ones are being generalized with the bad.

it's a feeling that I'm not proud of, and I do regret the way I worder my first post in this thread. I shouldn't have mentioned that the cops probably did something wrong.[/QUOTE]

I cant believe that you actually believe that the majority of cops are criminals.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Ehh I ****ing hate old bill. But I do feel bad for their families. The guy who did it is gonna fry, whether he gets shot, or electrocuted.

Maybe in the UK. But not in the US. He'll get a Life Sentence at worst, rotting in a prison & wasting tax money. The US needs harsher punishments.

 

[Anubis]

Actually that depends entirely upon where you live in the U.S. Maybe you should move to Texas.

 

[Majic Walrus]

In the state the murders took place you can definitely get the death penalty for killing an officer of the law.

 

[huskerwebhead]

I don't want to go on forever and ever and get all angry and make others angry because some of what I have said is offensive, but no I never said I was okay with it. Saying I think it's okay and saying I think it's wrong are complete opposites.

Um, not really. Saying that it's wrong and saying it's right are opposites. You said it was wrong....then nothing. You didn't indicate that you were OK with it or not. And really, you didn't answer that yet. Are you Ok with it?

my nervousness is the result of numerous experiences I had prior to being like that. I do understand why they would think you might have something to hide by being nervous, but that is no excuse for them breaking the law. You can't excuse their actions with my nervousness.

I still do believe that the majority of cops are criminals. but I also know I should not hate all of them because the good ones are being generalized with the bad.

Every single one of them broke the law? Or one or two of them broke the law, and the rest simply aggravated you? Sure, not letting you use the phone is a dick move...but it's not breaking the law. Be specific.

Again, how many police officers have you actually encountered? Were they all in your town or have you sampled police officers from every state?

So again...are you OK with it? Let me put it another way. The last count showed approximately 800,000+ Americans are employed as Police Officers. You are OK...you are comfortable saying that you think the majority, which is what....500,000; 600,000, 700,000 people are corrupt? Over half a million people you've never met are corrupt.....based on the less than 1% you've encountered? If you're not OK with it, then what are you doing to fix it?

 

[Hotwire]

Seemed like no one read the update I posted. So...

SEATTLE – A suspect in the slaying of four police officers who were gunned down in a suburban coffee shop was surrounded by police at a Seattle house early Monday, wounded and possibly dead, authorities said.
Negotiators were trying to communicate with Maurice Clemmons, 37, using loudspeakers, explosions and even a robot to try to prod him from hiding. At one point, gunshots rang through the neighborhood, about 30 miles from the original crime scene.
"We have determined that in fact he has been shot," said Ed Troyer, a spokesman for the Pierce County Sheriff. "He may be deceased from his gunshot wound."
Clemmons has a long criminal history, including a long prison sentence commuted by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee nearly a decade ago and a recent arrest for allegedly assaulting a police officer in Washington.
He went to a coffee house on Sunday morning and opened fire on the Lakewood officers, killing Sgt. Mark Renninger, 39, Ronald Owens, 37, Tina Griswold, 40, and Greg Richards, 42, as they caught up on paperwork at the beginning of their shifts. He fled but authorities believe he might have been wounded by one of his victims.
"We don't know if he's still alive. If he isn't, it's because he succumbed to the wound he received yesterday when he was in the struggle with the police officer that managed to get a shot fired at him before he was killed," Troyer said on the "Early Show" on CBS.
Police surrounded the house late Sunday, and a negotiator used a loudspeaker early Monday to call him out by name, saying: "Mr. Clemmons, I'd like to get you out of there safely. I can tell you this, we are not going away."
Any response from inside the house was inaudible from the vantage of a photographer for The Associated Press. But shortly thereafter, police began using sirens outside the house, and there were several loud bangs before the negotiator resumed speaking, saying: "This is one of the toughest decisions you'll make in your life, but you need to man up."
By 3 a.m. Pacific time, the loudspeakers and explosions had fallen silent. Seattle Police spokesman Jeff Kappel said Clemmons has never responded. It's not clear whose house it is.
Clemmons is believed to have been in the area of the coffee shop around the time of the shooting, but Troyer declined to say what evidence might link him to the shooting.
Investigators say they know of no reason that Clemmons or anyone else might have had to open fire on the four as they sat working on their laptops Sunday. Court documents indicate that Clemmons is delusional and mentally unstable.
"We're going to be surprised if there is a motive worth mentioning," said Troyer, who sketched out a scene of controlled and deliberate carnage that spared the employees and other customers at the coffee shop in suburban Parkland, about 35 miles south of Seattle.
"He was very versed with the weapon," Troyer said. "This wasn't something where the windows were shot up and there bullets sprayed around the place. The bullets hit their targets."
Officer Richards' sister-in-law, Melanie Burwell, called the shooting "senseless."
"He didn't have a mean bone in his body," she said. "If there were more people in the world like Greg, things like this wouldn't happen.
Clemmons has an extensive violent criminal history from Arkansas. He was also recently charged in Washington state with assaulting a police officer, and second-degree rape of a child. Using a bail bondsman, he posted $150,000 — only $15,000 of his own money — and was released from jail last week.
Documents related to the pending charges in Washington state indicate a volatile personality. In one instance, he is accused of punching a sheriff's deputy in the face, The Seattle Times reported. In another, he is accused of gathering his wife and young relatives and forcing them to undress, according to a Pierce County sheriff's report.
"The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus," the report said.
Troyer said investigators believe two of the officers were killed while sitting in the shop, and a third was shot dead after standing up. The fourth apparently "gave up a good fight."
"We believe there was a struggle, a commotion, a fight ... that he fought the guy all the way out the door," Troyer said.
In 1989, Clemmons, then 17, was convicted in Little Rock for aggravated robbery. He was paroled in 2000 after Huckabee commuted a 95-year prison sentence.
Huckabee, who was criticized during his run for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008 for granting many clemencies and commutations, cited Clemmons' youth. Clemmons later violated his parole, was returned to prison and released in 2004.
On Sunday, Huckabee issued this statement on his Web site: "Should he be found to be responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington state."
It was the second deadly ambush of police in the Seattle area in recent weeks, but the two cases aren't related.
Authorities say a man killed a Seattle police officer on Halloween night and also firebombed four police vehicles in October as part of a "one-man war" against law enforcement. Christopher Monfort, 41, was arrested after being wounded in a firefight with police days after the Seattle shooting.
The officers killed Sunday had received no threats, sheriff's officials said.
"We won't know if it's a copycat effect or what it was until we get the case solved," Troyer said.
___
Contributing to this report were Associated Press writers Gene Johnson in Parkland, Rachel La Corte in Tacoma, George Tibbits in Seattle, Jill Zeman Bleed in Little Rock, Ark., and photographers Elaine Thompson in Seattle and Ted S. Warren in Parkland.

Original Atricle

 

[huskerwebhead]

I saw it. I hope this was really the guy. And if he did end up dieing as a result of return fire by one of the officers he killed, then it's that much more suitable.