Superman Returns 44 days later...

[XCharlieX]

I'm saying what's the point of adapting something to film if you're not going to adapt something to film in the first place.

Oh I dont know.. making a film that the director had an artistic say in? That IS their right... when you go to film, you are by their rules.

Yes it's usually crap if the hero on screen has very little relation with their comicbook self... You caught me! I admit it.

And thats the most closed minded and arrogant thing ive noticed.

You saying you want comicbook movies to STOP striving to be the best adaptations of the source stories as they possibly can?

Im saying what you might define as best choice might not be the film makers. Film makers are no different than if a new comic writer made an alternate take on the verse, but its for the screen. Thats his right because its not only for you selfish fans, its for the rest of us millions.

It seems film is so enticing and "kewl" to you guys but you think you can overrun it as if theres no strings.. think again. If you want a moving film, you usually have to have film sensibilities. Wishing it away complaining on a board is futile.

 

[The Kid]

Oh I dont know.. making a film that the director had an artistic say in? That IS their right... when you go to film, you are by their rules.

I don't even know what you mean by that. I don't have to like what they do to the characters, if that's what you are saying.


And thats the most closed minded and arrogant thing ive noticed.

Well sue me for wanting my favorite character portrayed correctly with reverence when they're adapted to live action. I'm guilty of caring. go ahead and sue.

Im saying what you might define as best choice might not be the film makers. Film makers are no different than if a new comic writer made an alternate take on the verse, but its for the screen. Thats his right because its not only for you selfish fans, its for the rest of us millions.

No one's denying they have the right. I'm saying I'd prefer it if they respect those funny picture books enough not to create catwoman "INO" versions of them. Is that so hard to understand? I demand they treat them with respect. Once again, go ahead and sue me for it.

It seems film is so enticing and "kewl" to you guys but you think you can overrun it as if theres no strings.. think again. If you want a moving film, you usually have to have film sensibilities. Wishing it away complaining on a board is futile.

Oh hush. You complain about complaining until you're blue, don't you? Is that futile?

 

[XCharlieX]

Well sue me for wanting my favorite character portrayed correctly with reverence when they're adapted to live action. I'm guilty of caring. go ahead and sue.

And what if youre "correct" is seen as not as good to another? Are we supposed to sit by while our taste is called crap? Doubtful.

No one's denying they have the right. I'm saying I'd prefer it if they respect those funny picture books enough not to create catwoman "INO" versions of them. Is that so hard to understand? I demand they treat them with respect. Once again, go ahead and sue me for it.

Dont even mention catwoman for your argument.. its ridiculous and demeaning to all of the fantastic films that deviated from comics. Unbelievable.

Oh hush. You complain about complaining until you're blue, don't you? Is that futile?

Welcome to the mirror buddy I think you guys have become so cartoonish I get a kick out of debating this stuff.

 

[The Kid]

And what if youre "correct" is seen as not as good to another? Are we supposed to sit by while our taste is called crap? Doubtful.

Correct is the best it can be. That is of course subjective, I guess to some who know the character well and those that don't. If it's a respectful and accurate representation of the comic, all the better. I doubt myself someone would find that wrong. Let's say you like catwoman's portrayal by halle berry or any other character that's not even close to their comicbook self, that's fine. I'll still call it crap. There's no reason for such an INO change to the character.

Dont even mention catwoman for your argument.. its ridiculous and demeaning to all of the fantastic films that deviated from comics. Unbelievable.

How is it ridiculous... It's what you said you want for comicbook movies a page ago. Don't back out of it. You either take catwoman too as one of those deviations or you don't take any of them.

Welcome to the mirror buddy I think you guys have become so cartoonish I get a kick out of debating this stuff.

What is that supposed to mean? And who are "you guys"?

 

[XCharlieX]

Would you PLZ stop quoting with ur replies in there.. hard to quote back

I will Edit soon with response.

EDIT:

Correct is the best it can be. That is of course subjective, I guess to some who know the character well and those that don't. If it's a respectful and accurate representation of the comic, all the better. I doubt myself someone would find that wrong.

Maybe I find many ideas comic fans force onto a film to be crap, laughable even. Theres no reason for such a comic fetishism to the point of not letting the director create. I doubt myself someone would find this wrong.

So if a director cannot create somethign beautiful for the non fanatics, then i call that situation to be crap? Is this what youre teaching me what is fair? Hmmm.

How is it ridiculous... It's what you said you want for comicbook movies a page ago. Don't back out of it. You either take catwoman too as one of those deviations or you don't take any of them.

How is it ridiculous.. lol thats the most ignorant statement. You either take the crap comics can be responsible for, or you dont take any of them if thats the case. You are NOT forcing a crap film on me because of your ignorance, thats for sure. You have a warped view of how films are made and only trust your comics. Thats your fault, not the good films that come about due to it. This type of person deserves comics alone, and no films. They just dont appreciate them.

Next time you want to see a cool live action movie, you might want to rethink your defiance and disrespect of what film entails. If it werent for them, you would still have flat pages with word bubbles lmao. If you so want respect you have to give it to the film makers, not just demand and expect them to just kneel before you when you have no clue what youre talking about with film.

 

[The Kid]

Would you PLZ stop quoting with ur replies in there.. hard to quote back

I will Edit soon with response.

EDIT:



Maybe I find many ideas comic fans force onto a film to be crap, laughable even. Theres no reason for such a comic fetishism to the point of not letting the director create. I doubt myself someone would find this wrong.

So if a director cannot create somethign beautiful for the non fanatics, then i call that situation to be crap? Is this what youre teaching me what is fair? Hmmm.

You keep going back to saying fans want the comics adapted word for word. That's ultimately impossible. I told you that's not what they want. Read my post from the last page, ok. They want the spirit of the character and the fundamentals of their story to be left in tact. Why would a non-fan care either way if the character's the way they should be or not?

How is it ridiculous.. lol thats the most ignorant statement. You either take the crap comics can be responsible for, or you dont take any of them if thats the case. You are NOT forcing a crap film on me because of your ignorance, thats for sure. You have a warped view of how films are made and only trust your comics. Thats your fault, not the good films that come about due to it. This type of person deserves comics alone, and no films. They just dont appreciate them.

Don't tell me what I deserve. If wanting the character to be as close as possible to who they are in the book is wrong, like I said, go ahead and sue me. You'll be suing a hell of a lot of people while you're at it. It's just common sense that every issue can't be adapted so why are you sitting there telling me every comic is counted. That's why I said spirit of the character and fundamentals. I and every person alive knows that it's impossible to fit all issues into a film. All you can ask for is for the director to stay faithful to the spirit and the fundamentals. That's my personal preferrence, and if you want hollywood to forget all that, and deliver something nearly unrecognizable, then that's truly unbelievable. You don't honestly want that, do you?

Next time you want to see a cool live action movie, you might want to rethink your defiance and disrespect of what film entails. If it werent for them, you would still have flat pages with word bubbles lmao. If you so want respect you have to give it to the film makers, not just demand and expect them to just kneel before you when you have no clue what youre talking about with film.

No, the film's made for an audience and they need honest feedback to make their work the best it can be, not sycophantic adulation. If I don't like their movie, I'll say so. If I do, I will. That's just how I do it.

 

[XCharlieX]

You keep going back to saying fans want the comics adapted word for word. That's ultimately impossible. I told you that's not what they want.

And I dont believe you. You split hairs to justify such a narrow ideology to get ahead of the criticism you would get if you didnt.

Don't tell me what I deserve. ...That's why I said spirit of the character and fundamentals.

Then dont tell me what you think the rest of us deserve onscreen. Your "fundamentals" are nonsense often to others. Another cop out to all of a sudden complain about something randomly.

That's my personal preferrence, and if you want hollywood to forget all that, and deliver something nearly unrecognizable, then that's truly unbelievable. You don't honestly want that, do you?

Never said I always did, thats up for the director to decide, NOT the complaining comic fanatic. Just because your a paranoid mess doesnt mean movies have to heed your impossibly narrow rules of "recognizeable" or they suck. Thats just ridiculous. Your standards are usually petty and you dont even realize it, and that is why they keep getting ignored by film. Can we please get a clue on this.

No, the film's made for an audience and they need honest feedback to make their work the best it can be, not sycophantic adulation. If I don't like their movie, I'll say so. If I do, I will. That's just how I do it.

Whether its good or not is up to the rest of us to decide, not the incredibly impossible fan. Who would we go to for a balanced view? You? lol You play the rest of us for fools...from your view we accept anything. Pitiful caricature. Your point exactly?

 

[The Kid]

And I dont believe you. You split hairs to justify such a narrow ideology to get ahead of the criticism you would get if you didnt.

What are you talking about?

Then dont tell me what you think the rest of us deserve onscreen. Your "fundamentals" are nonsense often to others. Another cop out to all of a sudden complain about something randomly.

Oh we deserve the best, would you agree? But if you don't want to see a faithful representation of a character on screen then it's up to you, enjoy Green Lantern when it arrives. It's my contention with what you want, for people to not complain when their character is being mistreated and merely "read the comics" to placate their desire to see the character done like it is in the books, that's the problem I have with what you think. Reading a comic is what the filmmaker should be doing while filming, not what fans should be doing while waiting for the film.

Never said I always did, thats up for the director to decide, NOT the complaining comic fanatic. Just because your a paranoid mess doesnt mean movies have to heed your impossibly narrow rules of "recognizeable" or they suck. Thats just ridiculous. Your standards are usually petty and you dont even realize it, and that is why they keep getting ignored by film. Can we please get a clue on this.

It's a simple clue that I want filmmakers to have and they should continue to heed themselves. Respect the source. I'll stand by that till the end.

Whether its good or not is up to the rest of us to decide, not the incredibly impossible fan. Who would we go to for a balanced view? You? lol You play the rest of us for fools...from your view we accept anything. Pitiful caricature. Your point exactly?

I don't even know who you or "rest of us" are to make that assessment. Point is that I believe people should honestly tell filmmakers how they view their work rather than give undeserved respect before being listened to. It must be earned first.

 

[XCharlieX]

Oh we deserve the best, would you agree? But if you don't want to see a faithful representation of a character on screen then it's up to you, enjoy Green Lantern when it arrives.

If its a good film I wont give a damn what some fanatics think because i know theyve blinded themselves. If its bad, its bad. IS the ruckus over it because we hear some preliminary news that it deviated from comics and havent seen it? Oh yeah it sucks because of that... jibberish. Ill find out if its bad soon enough, and it wont be due to comics, itll be the own directors bad instinct.

Respect the source. I'll stand by that till the end.

And I stand by "respect the film maker" till the end. I see excuses for force fitting things from the comic but little support for film decisions

I don't even know who you or "rest of us" are to make that assessment.

Not everyone even cares about the stuff you do. Thats a huge chunk of the rest of the world.

Point is that I believe people should honestly tell filmmakers how they view their work rather than give undeserved respect before being listened to. It must be earned first.

Well since you dont understand what adaptations entail, you will continue to get no respect. Ill quote a film... you always fear what you dont understand, and you, so paranoid of crappy catwoman, do not understand what they do, and why they do it, all you care about is your narrow elitist way, you you you, so that gains no respect.

 

[The Kid]

If its a good film I wont give a damn what some fanatics think because i know theyve blinded themselves. If its bad, its bad. IS the ruckus over it because we hear some preliminary news that it deviated from comics and havent seen it? Oh yeah it sucks because of that... jibberish. Ill find out if its bad soon enough, and it wont be due to comics, itll be the own directors bad instinct.

Yeah, no, I want you to enjoy it. Jack Black will be just wonderful as Lantern...

And I stand by "respect the film maker" till the end. I see excuses for force fitting things from the comic but little support for film decisions

Well the comics are being adaptated, so they're really the entire reason the film's being made. I'd expect that's how most would look at it. Nobody, especially nowdays after having some good to decently faithful comic films come along since catwoman, wants to go back to that.

Not everyone even cares about the stuff you do. Thats a huge chunk of the rest of the world.

Precisely why they won't care if it's like it's supposed to be or not. When I was a kid I liked Batman and Robin. So now does that mean we should make more like that because there are probably millions of non-batfans out there who just wouldn't care if we made batman from batman begins more like that ******ed movie in TDK? NO of course not. Studios are learning that people do care. They figure "why make it outrageously unlike the original anyway? Nobody'll really have a problem if we stay more faithful to the source."

Well since you dont understand what adaptations entail, you will continue to get no respect. Ill quote a film... you always fear what you dont understand, and you, so paranoid of crappy catwoman, do not understand what they do, and why they do it, all you care about is your narrow elitist way, you you you, so that gains no respect.


Hush. They respect fans' views more now than before when they brought two franchises, superman and batman, down to hell and are now trying to bring them back up. Again they stumbled with catwoman but fan response indicates that that's not what people want for their comic characters. The people have spoken, Charlie. It's not just me who's asking that they respect the comics. It's everyone who's had to sit and watch in horror as their characters displayed their rubber asses in full view. If It's being elitist to request that filmakers and studios try their very best not to do anything that would alter a character to the extent of some of our worst examples of comic adaptation, then I'm glad to be elitist. Thank God For Nolan.

 

[XCharlieX]

I didnt even read all that. Nolans the man, but not for your reasons.

ZZZzzzZZz

Did you say jack black as lantern? lol thats funny.

 

[hurley711]

Thank god for the animated show! Now THESE clips are epic! I don't want ALL fighting (in the movies) but when there IS action, i want it on THIS scale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0VNjribyY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Pzv9u9nEs

A lot of the cartoons are great. The animated Superman comes off down to earth, oldfashioned but still kicks a$$ if need be. basically the producers od the toons have respect for the legend by looking at the source material.

It's mostly chicks that like the chick flick (that they call Superman Returns) and their boyfriends who are whipped into liking it.
But even that aside, it's a bad chick flick, bad pacing, bad acting, no tension, zero chemistry between the bad actors, ridiculous plot, silly ending and dumb beginning.
Oh, how I hate Superman Returns

So in that first clip how many buildings were destroyed and people were killed because Supes went app$hit fighting Capt Marvel? At least 5-6 bldgs were destroyed, and countless people were inside at the time so in this scenario Supes kills innocent people. It's a no win situation in comic book movies, something has to be flawed for it to work.

 

[The Kid]

Those buildings were empty. Luthor was opening up some apartment complexes that day I believe. I haven't seen the ep in a long time.

SHAZZAM!

 

[hurley711]

Those buildings were empty. Luthor was opening up some apartment complexes that day I believe. I haven't seen the ep in a long time.

SHAZZAM!

 

[Anita18]

Re: Wesyeed and XCharlieX's "discussion," I wish I had an eating-popcorn smiley.

Wait, lemme see if this works:

Anyhow, I understand what both of you are trying to get at. It's just different strokes for different folks, y'all. I just think that it would be in the best interest of both Hollywood and the comic book companies if the essence of their characters remained consistent across both film and print. Think about it - that's how you reel in new fans in both mediums.

Take this scenario: a newbie watching a comic book movie thinks, "Wow, this is really cool, I should get in with the comic books!" Bam. You have a new comic book fan. He starts reading the comic books, and discovers that the character portrayed in the movie isn't what he saw on screen, and that he likes the movie version better. Disappointment: the guy doesn't buy any more comic books. However, if the newbie reads the comic books and thinks that they provide a deeper (yet consistent) look into the movie character, he'll think, "Cool! This is awesome!" and keep on buying more books. In addition, he'll be more excited for the next movie. Maybe he'll even get acquainted with other characters, and be psyched when their respective movies come out. More money for Hollywood.

Of course, that's just one scenario, and other people might react to it differently. Some might welcome the comic-book version of a character if it doesn't match the movie version. But I prefer to keep it simple, just in case.

 

[XCharlieX]

Re: Wesyeed and XCharlieX's "discussion," I wish I had an eating-popcorn smiley.

lol Well, I try

You have a new comic book fan. He starts reading the comic books, and discovers that the character portrayed in the movie isn't what he saw on screen, and that he likes the movie version better. Disappointment: the guy doesn't buy any more comic books.

And what would this say? Movies can win over the comics easily for many, they dont need to lead back to the comics always. I feel fine looking at the DVD extras and looking at where they got the inspiration from, and then my curiousity is satisfied.

Yes ive taken a look at the comics as a kid. They were just 2d and over the top looking from panel to panel. Most impactful? When I saw the characters alone in the 300+ marvel cards i have, usually without the weird events happening, and just their profiles and character background and I was thinking wouldnt this be much better in live action with some common rules so one could understand these characters better? And then i realized Batman 89 already made me feel for the characters more than any cartoon drawing could, and then 2000s x-men happened.

Not everyone has to be drawn back to comics. Im surprised so many are into comics here on a film board... the medium is too lenient and silly for my taste, and i say that from past experience.

 

[Anita18]

Not everyone has to be drawn back to comics. Im surprised so many are into comics here on a film board... the medium is too lenient and silly for my taste, and i say that from past experience.

Why is it lenient and silly? I know that some are geared more for kids than others, but a lot of the stuff coming out now (especially of the non-superhero genre) is really quite mature and deal with mature situations. Comics are basically storyboards with words, but even then film can do what comics sometimes can't, and comics can do what film sometimes can't.

There were panels in DKR that would have been downright corny and cheesy if put to film, but on paper it worked, and IMO worked very well. On paper, the artist is able to juxtapose contrasting situations on the same page and the reader is able to gleam the connections. On film, the director usually has to make it very very clear what is going on, since mainstream audiences typically only watch a film once, and you can't rewind things in a theater. Not to mention how the words are put onto the page can change how a situation feels.

Or I dunno, I'm still not that familiar with superhero comics. I just got done with several Batman graphic novels (TLH and DV) and I feel that some parts of it could be interpreted as cheesy, even when they're incredibly artistic. Right now I'm also in the middle of reading Blankets, which is a memoir, and I feel that the graphic novel medium was the only way that story could have been told with the emotional punch that it has. The drawings are done with a child's touch, but the story it tells is not.

 

[XCharlieX]

Why is it lenient and silly? I know that some are geared more for kids than others, but a lot of the stuff coming out now (especially of the non-superhero genre) is really quite mature and deal with mature situations.

Well thats a different ballgame isnt it? This mod closed a topic of debate over in the batman forums thinking i find ALL comics to be silly... how wrong was his assumption.

The superhero genre yes. Thats the ones im speaking of... the action is over the top, theres a billion crazy impossible things happening at once, everyone has some weird zippity pow sound when they do anything... their costumes look very fantastical and unrelatable. The explanation of events sound like a bad pipe dream often. imo thats a fantasy mess. The entire message is..dont take it seriously. You cant really create the utmost relatable characters that way.

 

[Anita18]

Well thats a different ballgame isnt it? This mod closed a topic of debate over in the batman forums thinking i find ALL comics to be silly... how wrong was his assumption.

The superhero genre yes. Thats the ones im speaking of... the action is over the top, theres a billion crazy impossible things happening at once, everyone has some weird zippity pow sound when they do anything... their costumes look very fantastical and unrelatable. The explanation of events sound like a bad pipe dream often. imo thats a fantasy mess. The entire message is..dont take it seriously. You cant really create the utmost relatable characters that way.

Ah, fair enough. I tend to avoid the comics that have "BAM!" and "POW!" written in happy colorful letters. A few sprinkled here and there isn't too bad...I never heard an explosion the same way again after seeing Miller's use of "POOM" in DKR. It actually made me giggle.

 

[Corben_Rulz]

Glad to see the 25 people who liked the movie gathering on one thread.

 

[The Kid]

Why? You wanted people to die?

Hurley that's sick.

 

[explode7]

Only 25 people on this site liked SR? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thats sooooooo freaking pathetic. Can't stop laughing.

 

[XCharlieX]

Oh the millions rest wont touch this place lol

 

[Super_Ludacris]

44 days later I pretty much forgot about Superman Returns...

 

[The Kid]

Aye, twas the same for me. Only I can't forget how awesome Jason was.