5 Dallas Officers Killed at Protest Over Shootings by Police

[MessiahDecoy123]

Of course. These groups incite hate. Rather it be Orlando, Charleston, Dallas... Most of these mass shooters seek solace in these groups and allow their hate to rage out of control. You notice how it's not usually the actual group doing the harm but some lone wolf doing harm in the name of the group. Mental Illness. People don't appreciate life because they don't appreciate their own life. They are willing to go out suicide by cop and take as many with them as they can.

I don't think mental illness is the issue.

What diagnosis would you give the Dallas shooter or Dylann Roof?

 

[Sevprince]

The idea that Black Lives Matters as a name is perceived as a problem by some, shows exactly why it is probably necessary.

Exactly.

 

[The Apocalypse]

Civil war or martial law if this BS keeps up.

Civil War is such an extreme. More than a majority of people want peace.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Civil War is such an extreme. More than a majority of people want peace.

Yeah it's the extremist who want a war.

Most people are more worried about the next season of Game of Thrones or Star Wars 8.

 

[DeadFan]

I found the documentary "Blood and Crips: Made In America" to be very helpful in understanding certain aspects of black experience in U.S. (not trying to generalize that this is the ONLY black experience...), including gave me a better understanding of the roots of a lot of the violence experienced within the black population. Yes, you can probably think about this intellectually, but the documentary gives you a more visceral understanding. Highly recommend it and I believe it is free on YouTube.

Also, a great book that also gives better understanding about violence within U.S. black population and barriers faced: "Ghettoside: A True Story of Murder in America" by Jill Leovy. Don't just jump to assumption when you see the title; it is a nuanced exploration of some of the structural issues within our law-enforcement/justice system that explain some obstacles that many in the black population face. Gives you something to think about.

Finally, also consider reading "The Short and Tragic Life of Robert Peace: A Brilliant Young Man Who Left Newark for the Ivy League" by Jeff Hobbs.

Again just some suggestions that might give someone different ways to think about and consider some of the struggles many black people are faced with in this country. No simple black and white (pun NOT intended) answers w/ the film or books, but I think it helps if you can try to get a better feel for what someone's experience might be like and I found these 3 items did that for me, as someone who is not black, to some extent.

And BTW not saying this to justify any of the violence against the police officers in Dallas. It's just that the various discussions about statistics for black crime etc made me think about how complex that particular issue is and I think generally we all benefit by looking to as many sources as possible to better understand the scope and reasons for the problems.

 

[DeadPresident]

I don't think mental illness is the issue.

What diagnosis would you give the Dallas shooter or Dylann Roof?

Anti-social personality disorder.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/Pages/Introduction.aspx

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah it's the extremist who want a war.

Most people are more worried about the next season of Game of Thrones or Star Wars 8.

And it is the extremist who have stockpiled guns to do just this.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Another suspect who targeted whites and police officers due to the Baton Rouge and Minnesota incidents.

http://bigstory.ap.org/c894476bcbcf4d98b68ae98b27e0a0ff

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Could a mod update the thread title? With the updates, we sadly know we lost 5 officers last night.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Of course. These groups incite hate. Rather it be Orlando, Charleston, Dallas... Most of these mass shooters seek solace in these groups and allow their hate to rage out of control. You notice how it's not usually the actual group doing the harm but some lone wolf doing harm in the name of the group. Mental Illness. People don't appreciate life because they don't appreciate their own life. They are willing to go out suicide by cop and take as many with them as they can.

Most people with mental illness are non-violent. I don't think it's fair to chalk these sorta acts of violence up to a group of people that largely have nothing to with it.

No, it does not claim that but the title implies otherwise. It is exactly the same implication that Blue Lives Matter makes. By saying that, Red Lives Matter would mean firefighters (or if you want to be borderline racist, First Nation Native American Indians) and then you would have another group with White Lives Matter and one for Yellow Lives Matter (for asians, obviously) then you can say well Orange Lives Matter (for construction workers, not Donald Trump and tanning enthusiasts necessarily) and the list goes on with how ridiculous it is to say "My skin color matters" or "my profession matters" because by default other people assume others who don't fall into that catagory are less important.

Yes, it is important that black lives matter. They do. People who agree don't have to agree with the name of the movement however.

Blue Lives Matter has the implication that officers are endangered in a way that is comparable with that of black civilians. That is factually incorrect. You seem to think there is some slippery slope. You've invented that. There isn't one. No one else is getting killed by cops and vigilantes at the same rate as blacks. And those cops and vigilantes are, more often than not, never held accountable.

So the name of the movement directly applies to the issue it is trying to remedy; the devaluation of black lives. If you agree that black lives matter, then you shouldn't need to split hairs over a title that is sure include everyone else when everyone else isn't facing the same crisis as said black lives. It's not about excluding other lives. It's about including the lives of people who have been criminally excluded for centuries.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

At a rally today, the Dallas police chief said they are continuing to pursue leads on potentially more suspects.

 

[redhawk23]

How legal is it to use a bomb defusing robot to deliver lethal force? It seems a bit like improvising by using your car to run a suspect over.

To put it in less weirdly futuristic terms, when did it become legal for cops to strap bombs to remote control cars? When did we arm cops with bombs?

What is it about our current present that led to this scenario taking place when it could have happened any time basically in the last 40 years? I'd say the main difference is that we allow cops to use explosives at all. I may be wrong but outside of maybe flash grenades I don't think this was a factor before the advent of the Department of Homeland Security. The overall effect of Homeland and Security seems to have been providing even local agencies with military style resources and tactics.

 

[Sevprince]

How legal is it to use a bomb defusing robot to deliver lethal force? It seems a bit like improvising by using your car to run a suspect over.

To put it in less weirdly futuristic terms, when did it become legal for cops to strap bombs to remote control cars? When did we arm cops with bombs?

What is it about our current present that led to this scenario taking place when it could have happened any time basically in the last 40 years? I'd say the main difference is that we allow cops to use explosives at all. I may be wrong but outside of maybe flash grenades I don't think this was a factor before the advent of the Department of Homeland Security. The overall effect of Homeland and Security seems to have been providing even local agencies with military style resources and tactics.

Cops can do whatever they want it seems especially to black people.

BTW
Twitter post calling Mark Hughes a suspect is still not deleted. The cops haven't officially cleared him despite doing it in closed doors. They are putting target on his back. I think is a disgrace. He should sue their ass.

 

[Kelly]

How legal is it to use a bomb defusing robot to deliver lethal force? It seems a bit like improvising by using your car to run a suspect over.

To put it in less weirdly futuristic terms, when did it become legal for cops to strap bombs to remote control cars? When did we arm cops with bombs?

What is it about our current present that led to this scenario taking place when it could have happened any time basically in the last 40 years? I'd say the main difference is that we allow cops to use explosives at all. I may be wrong but outside of maybe flash grenades I don't think this was a factor before the advent of the Department of Homeland Security. The overall effect of Homeland and Security seems to have been providing even local agencies with military style resources and tactics.

I questioned that as well when I heard it....

 

[MyDudeSpidey]

I see a lot of people on Twitter calling Micah Johnson a hero for what he did.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

How legal is it to use a bomb defusing robot to deliver lethal force? It seems a bit like improvising by using your car to run a suspect over.

To put it in less weirdly futuristic terms, when did it become legal for cops to strap bombs to remote control cars? When did we arm cops with bombs?

What is it about our current present that led to this scenario taking place when it could have happened any time basically in the last 40 years? I'd say the main difference is that we allow cops to use explosives at all. I may be wrong but outside of maybe flash grenades I don't think this was a factor before the advent of the Department of Homeland Security. The overall effect of Homeland and Security seems to have been providing even local agencies with military style resources and tactics.

This was exactly my question when I heard what happened. I didn't think it could possibly be legal.

 

[chaseter]

Some just can't admit that blacks get killed at an alarmingly higher rate.

Look at statistics. Remove emotion and see objective numbers for a sec:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

2013:
2698 blacks and 2755 whites commit homicide out of 5723 total. That is 47% and 48% respectively. Blacks are 13% of the population and whites are 63%. So, blacks are committing 3x more homicides as compared to their population percentage than whites. So, it should be that officers kill 3x more blacks than whites compared to population percentages. (because police are more likely to shoot to kill if weapons are involved, which they usually are with homicides).

In 2015, the Post noted 986 police killings. This is what the Post concluded:

Over the past year, The Post found that the vast majority of those shot and killed by police were armed and half of them were white. Still, police killed blacks at three times the rate of whites when adjusted for the populations where these shootings occurred.

3x more than whites adjusted for population statistics. From that one paragraph, it sounds terrible. But, when you combine it with crime data, it's expected as I explained above.

It's sad that the police kill anyone but sometimes they have to. Mistakes will happen unfortunately but I don't think it's epidemic regarding one race. The crime in the black community is proportionately larger than any other race when adjusted for population percentage. So, more issues will naturally arise with cops and black criminals proportionately. What we should work on is identifying the issue as to why and where the homicide rate is higher and try to fix the problem at the source. Time and money would be better spent there IMO than marching and protesting against all cops when statistically, there is no abnormality.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I see a lot of people on Twitter calling Micah Johnson a hero for what he did.

Not surprising with the amount of hate law enforcement gets on top of the poor job some have done.

 

[Kelly]

My thing was....what if he had detonators for bombs in different places and when they blow up said suspect, they end up detonating who knows how many other bombs. Just seemed REALLY STUPID, to me.

 

[Steyin]

My thing was....what if he had detonators for bombs in different places and when they blow up said suspect, they end up detonating who knows how many other bombs. Just seemed REALLY STUPID, to me.

OT, but I did write an idea for a film where this was the case. Taking out the "villain" would detonate several bombs since the relays were tied to his vitals, and once they go, the bombs go off.

That aside, sadly with all that is going on, insert IDon'tWantToLiveOnThisPlanetAnymore.gif here. I was very annoyed that last night when I turned on the late night news no one was covering this except for one of the Hispanic stations.

 

[Sawyer]

Isn't it ironic....

*woman posts 10+ minute FB Live footage after a cop fires shots into a car with a child in the backseat*
Right: "Well, let's just wait until we've got all the facts, okay?"

*sniper shots fired at what had been, up to that point, a peaceful BLM protest*
Right: "Black Lives Matter is TERRORISM! TERRORISM!!!! This is a RACE WAR, CAN'T YOU SEE????!!!! *begins foaming at the mouth*"

 

[Kelly]

OT, but I did write an idea for a film where this was the case. Taking out the "villain" would detonate several bombs since the relays were tied to his vitals, and once they go, the bombs go off.

That aside, sadly with all that is going on, insert IDon'tWantToLiveOnThisPlanetAnymore.gif here. I was very annoyed that last night when I turned on the late night news no one was covering this except for one of the Hispanic stations.

I had to turn to Fox News....in order to watch coverage. ABC did a quick 3 minute update and then back to regular programming. I was so surprised....

 

[childeroland]

How many non-blacks were shot point blank inside their cars? How many were held down and shot five times after they were already subdued? How many were thrown into vans that then ran roughshod over streets while the victim was unsecured contrary to police policy? How many times did police body cams suddenly become "unsecured" during the altercation?

Look at statistics. Remove emotion and see objective numbers for a sec:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

2013:
2698 blacks and 2755 whites commit homicide out of 5723 total. That is 47% and 48% respectively. Blacks are 13% of the population and whites are 63%. So, blacks are committing 3x more homicides as compared to their population percentage than whites. So, it should be that officers kill 3x more blacks than whites compared to population percentages. (because police are more likely to shoot to kill if weapons are involved, which they usually are with homicides).

In 2015, the Post noted 986 police killings. This is what the Post concluded:


3x more than whites adjusted for population statistics. From that one paragraph, it sounds terrible. But, when you combine it with crime data, it's expected as I explained above.

It's sad that the police kill anyone but sometimes they have to. Mistakes will happen unfortunately but I don't think it's epidemic regarding one race. The crime in the black community is proportionately larger than any other race when adjusted for population percentage. So, more issues will naturally arise with cops and black criminals proportionately. What we should work on is identifying the issue as to why and where the homicide rate is higher and try to fix the problem at the source. Time and money would be better spent there IMO than marching and protesting against all cops when statistically, there is no abnormality.

 

[chaseter]

You can research that data if you want and present it. There will always be statistical outliers to any data. Outliers aren't representative of all the data.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Look at statistics. Remove emotion and see objective numbers for a sec:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

2013:
2698 blacks and 2755 whites commit homicide out of 5723 total. That is 47% and 48% respectively. Blacks are 13% of the population and whites are 63%. So, blacks are committing 3x more homicides as compared to their population percentage than whites. So, it should be that officers kill 3x more blacks than whites compared to population percentages. (because police are more likely to shoot to kill if weapons are involved, which they usually are with homicides).

In 2015, the Post noted 986 police killings. This is what the Post concluded:


3x more than whites adjusted for population statistics. From that one paragraph, it sounds terrible. But, when you combine it with crime data, it's expected as I explained above.

It's sad that the police kill anyone but sometimes they have to. Mistakes will happen unfortunately but I don't think it's epidemic regarding one race. The crime in the black community is proportionately larger than any other race when adjusted for population percentage. So, more issues will naturally arise with cops and black criminals proportionately. What we should work on is identifying the issue as to why and where the homicide rate is higher and try to fix the problem at the source. Time and money would be better spent there IMO than marching and protesting against all cops when statistically, there is no abnormality.

Wow, this is a damn good post Chaseter. When you drop the snarky contrarian routine you make very good arguments. As was posted above there are statistical outliers of extreme situations which of course draw national attention but cold, hard numbers really don't lie.

As a nation, we would be much better off attacking the things like trickle-down economics that contribute to the economic disparity of the less fortunate. We also need more educational programs and opportunities for low-income areas so that people don't feel like turning to a life of crime is the only way to escape poverty.