7.11 - Siren - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[user123456789]

PCP addict...

is this the 5 o clock free crack giveaway?

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Since you've come back, your all types of Amy Winehouse, you know

 

[user123456789]

Since you've come back, your all types of Amy Winehouse, you know

let's hug it out, *****!

 

[Serene]

By the way, I don't hate Lana with a fiery passion. I'm just tired of the writers focusing just on her instead of the lead Clark Kent or always trying to make her relevant when she clearly doesn't need to be.

We'll just have to disagree about your reputation on Lana commenting.

And Lana clearly IS relevant to this show - and that's so basic that I can't even bother to try and explain it.

Lionel may not want to bring a 3rd party into the situation and he thought that he could blackmail Lana to get the information that he needed. He knows that Lana is aware of Lex's nefarious deeds, regarding cloning and whatnot, and that she wouldn't go running to Lex.

I can see in this situation why Lionel thought he could use Lana to get what information he wanted.

Oh you! Stop making so much sense already.
Lana already HAD the footage, and Lionel being Lionel tried to use her feelings for Clark to blackmail her AGAIN, just as he did in Promise. I don't know why it's so unbelievable to anyone that he'd try and force her to help him with the footage.

 

[Olea]

We'll just have to disagree about your reputation on Lana commenting.

Yeees, I was making this point earlier in the thread. It seems that some people work hard to make sure that my 'reputation' precedes me. I wonder though, what does bias against real people - not made-up characters - is called?

And Lana clearly IS relevant to this show - and that's so basic that I can't even bother to try and explain it..

Clearly your opinion!!!

 

[user123456789]

olea lets gets some tea and biscuits there is no use trying to debate here

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Yeees, I was making this point earlier in the thread. It seems that some people work hard to make sure that my 'reputation' precedes me. I wonder though, what does bias against real people - not made-up characters - is called?


Clearly your opinion!!!

You could argue that if the TBTP dictate the show's medium from the start and Lana and Clark have been there from the start, then yeah she is relevant. I mean for all the hate she gets, she is one of the main characters of Smallville (and when I think Smallville, I think where Superman grew up and Lana is one of the people you think of as well as the Kents). So at the very least its gonna be weird. I dont even think it improves it because the awful dynamics that characters get put in, is on the show. If the focused moved to say Lois and Clark, I think all we would get (filler beared in mind) is a re-hatch of well Lois & Clark the younger years. I mean if your into Veronica Mars it aint such a bad thing but really I dont think its gonna make to much of a difference in improvment on the show, just shift the dynamic and rehash themes over and over again differently.

 

[Serene]

Yeees, I was making this point earlier in the thread. It seems that some people work hard to make sure that my 'reputation' precedes me. I wonder though, what does bias against real people - not made-up characters - is called?

Opinion?

To be clear, my opinions on your reviews, and your stance on Lana's character in this show have nothing to do with anything I've been told by Jana (who I've actually never discussed anything about you with), or anyone else. I make my own decisions about reviewers based on what I read. And I do read a LOT of SV discussion after every single episode.

So if your reputation precedes you, it's because you've put it out there. Not saying that's wrong, but don't try blaming anyone else for it. If you're going to put it out there, at least be willing to own it.

I'm just tired of the writers focusing just on her instead of the lead Clark Kent or always trying to make her relevant when she clearly doesn't need to be.

Voila. Your very strong opinion that colors all your reviews, that I happen to strongly disagree with. I know there are people who do agree with you though, and that's fine too.

 

[avidreader]

Oh you! Stop making so much sense already.

Hee, hee!!

Lana already HAD the footage, and Lionel being Lionel tried to use her feelings for Clark to blackmail her AGAIN, just as he did in Promise. I don't know why it's so unbelievable to anyone that he'd try and force her to help him with the footage.

Well I pointed out in my previous post about Lana having the footage, but further explanation was required.

 

[Olea]

So if your reputation precedes you, it's because you've put it out there. Not saying that's wrong, but don't try blaming anyone else for it. If you're going to put it out there, at least be willing to own it.

To be clear, I have never put it out there. I really don't care who likes or dislikes my reviews. It's my opinion and how I see things. However, I do get annoyed when people brand me a name just because they disagree. Post and argue your disagreement instead of dismissing an opinion just because we see things differently.

Voila. Your very strong opinion that colors all your reviews, that I happen to strongly disagree with. I know there are people who do agree with you though, and that's fine too.

And somehow this is wrong?

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Who do you review for?

 

[Olea]

You could argue that if the TBTP dictate the show's medium from the start and Lana and Clark have been there from the start, then yeah she is relevant. I mean for all the hate she gets, she is one of the main characters of Smallville (and when I think Smallville, I think where Superman grew up and Lana is one of the people you think of as well as the Kents). So at the very least its gonna be weird. I dont even think it improves it because the awful dynamics that characters get put in, is on the show. If the focused moved to say Lois and Clark, I think all we would get (filler beared in mind) is a re-hatch of well Lois & Clark the younger years. I mean if your into Veronica Mars it aint such a bad thing but really I dont think its gonna make to much of a difference in improvment on the show, just shift the dynamic and rehash themes over and over again differently.

Superman mythos isn't too clear about Clark Kent's younger years. We only have that Clark grew up in Smallville, he had a brief relationship with Lana - which in some cases is presented even as a fling - and then moved around the world, did his training before settling in Metropolis. Currently Lana is supposed to be an old friend who occasionally makes an appearance.

I don't disagree that Lana has been around since the begining. But in the begining she was written as a sweet, innocenent and good-hearted girl and everyone wanted to be her. Her stories were mostly B-plot, while the main story focus on Clark and his journey.

Since season 4 Lana became the A-plot, all Clark's stories revolve around her. It wasn't Lana Lang or Lionel Luthor for that matter that guided Clark or helped him develop his moral compass. If anything, since season 4 the writers have completely destroyed her character, we have seen Lana kill, steal, kidnap, imprison, torture, lie and treated most of her friends like crap without ever facing the consequences or even being called out for her actions.

I know that you probably disagree with the above, but I can't help feel that the show is ultimately losing because it focuses too much on the relationship aspect of Clark's life.

Who do you review for?

No-one, I write my thoughts and post them like everyone else.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

I dont know why people say that sweet innocent girl next door Lana was so great. Ultimatley you couldnt have the character like that for 7 seasons. And again because this is SMALLVILLE and you have to have a Lana, that would have been worse than anything.
Season 4 and 5 had some bad writing for her (didnt see anything wrong with season 1-3) but I think the last couple of seasons have seen a good form. The only issue was the whole baby thing and I blame the writers for that dumb subplot. I think her being with Lex was an intresting take and I think her now being sort of a sidekick works as well. I mean Lana in the comics was more of a companion (almost like Chloe in some ways). Sure there in a relationship now but I would hope and expect that, the eventual break up is mutual and she still continues working with him agains the Luthors and build on from the Isis project. Ive heard a lot of people who didnt like the character initially say that she is at least more intresting this way. Yeah you have a bit of angst with Clark and Lana but whatever. It would be a shame to let her go now.

But getting back to that whole, she is the A plot thing. I dont really see it being that bad, especially when in a lot of episodes shes only in a few small scenes. I still think Clark and whatever he encounters is the A plot (so to speak). Of course she gonna play a major support role cause the show for the most part has been built on Clark and his relationship with Lex and Lana. Which to be fair looking at post and pre crisis Smallville stories in the comics has always been there at the nucleus. I dont know where all this Supergirl, Lois **** came from.
But I again say this all goes back to the fact that this show has been on longer than it should have. So things like plots strech out longer than they should and characters are added that shouldnt.

 

[jr24tw]

...and treated most of her friends like crap without ever facing the consequences or even being called out for her actions.

Those always manage to make me snort. Of course it's Lana's fault. It always is. Nevermind that I could rave about some things Chloe has done as Lana's supposed friend. But I guess that's ok and overlooked. I could probably find examples when Clark was a bad friend to Lana (and vice versa). Same goes for Lana and Lex. Lois...nothing comes to mind concerning Lana other than one or two quotes of hers (and I don't mean that forshadowing crap).

Here is a simple fact of life. Problems in relationships (friendship or romance) is never just one person's fault. NEVER. And there is also just as much bad friendship stuff to find about other character's when it comes to Lana. Also a simple fact.

I know that you probably disagree with the above, but I can't help feel that the show is ultimately losing because it focuses too much on the relationship aspect of Clark's life.

If you don't like it. Don't watch it.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

I always thought Chloe was way more of whiny selfish ***** about Clark during Season 2. I mean jeez no one could stop that squealing piggy....

 

[Prison Mike]

I always thought Chloe was way more of whiny selfish ***** about Clark during Season 2. I mean jeez no one could stop that squealing piggy....

 

[jr24tw]

Well she hasn't changed that much since then. Only she is squealing less now.

 

[Cmill216]

Chris Carabott's review from IGN sums up my feelings on "Siren" beautifully:

The problem is that the ingredients for a great episode are present but too much Clark Kent-Lana Lang melodrama gets in the way. If you're a fan of Clark and Lana being miserable for the majority of the episode, you'll love "Siren" with a passion. For the rest of us who'd rather watch a charismatic hero fighting the good fight, well, you should probably send a letter into the CW asking for a Green Arrow spin-off.

The problem with this episode is pretty simple; Clark and Lana's relationship has been completely driven into the ground. Last week, Lana admitted that she had a better time with Bizarro than she did with Clark. Where do you possibly go from here?

Every time Clark and Lana are on screen you can feel them sucking the fun out of the episode. Even when Clark shares scenes with Chloe he's just mopes about, acting depressed. It's really a sad state of affairs when your lead character is a sad, lonely shell of himself. It simply doesn't make for good TV.

The writers seem to feed off keeping these two characters angry or depressed so they'll undoubtedly find a new way to do that in a couple of weeks. Either just end the relationship or allow them to be genuinely happy for a few episodes. Nobody wants to see the hero of the show depressed because he won't have sex (Bizarro proves that he can) or that his girlfriend isn't talking to him. Clark doesn't need to be Green Arrow but he needs to be someone you want to watch every week without feeling sorry for him.

Also, Lana's dialogue seems to be getting worse. Who uses "I've been a two-headed hydra lately" in conversation? Kristen Kreuk's a smart woman so give her some intelligent dialogue instead of dialogue that is supposed to make her sound intelligent.

 

[Olea]

Those always manage to make me snort. Of course it's Lana's fault. It always is. Nevermind that I could rave about some things Chloe has done as Lana's supposed friend. But I guess that's ok and overlooked. I could probably find examples when Clark was a bad friend to Lana (and vice versa). Same goes for Lana and Lex. Lois...nothing comes to mind concerning Lana other than one or two quotes of hers (and I don't mean that forshadowing crap).

Here is a simple fact of life. Problems in relationships (friendship or romance) is never just one person's fault. NEVER. And there is also just as much bad friendship stuff to find about other character's when it comes to Lana. Also a simple fact.

I agree with your take on relationships, there is no golden rule or a how-to. And a lot of time our behaviour changes depending on the current happenings of our life. However how is that relevant with the kill, steal, kidnap, imprison, torture and lie? I believe we can agree that these however in some cases justified were crimes that were never touched. By the following episode it was as if they never happened.

If you don't like it. Don't watch it.

Off course there is dialogue with exchange of ideas and then there's that.

 

[Olea]

Chris Carabott's review from IGN sums up my feelings on "Siren" beautifully:

I have read this reaview and I completely agree with you and the writers points.

Here is another from TVGuide with pretty much some similar views.

Episode Recap: "Siren"

Considering last week's episode went up against the recap of Lost, that opening scene with Black Canary almost knifing Chloe should have ended with Clark saving her from near death, not Green Arrow's arrow shattering mid-air because Black Canary has the power of sound.

That aside, it was hard to find anything redeeming in tonight's airing. Tom Welling's take on Bizarro was a lot stronger than his take on Clark's been in a while, and the relationship between Lana and the “real” him were beyond uncomfortable. Even the scenes with Lionel and Lex, who for a long time were far and away the strongest characters on the show, felt forced.

So what worked? Not a lot. Why would Green Arrow reveal his identity to Chloe, who was nothing more than a bit player in the Justice League, and not Lois, the gorgeous girl he was dating?

Why did it take this long for Lana to see herself more as a Lady Macbeth than the girl next door? On the same line, why did it take this long for Clark to realize that she's nothing but bad news? “Every time you look at me, it's like you wish I was someone else.” You're darned right about that, Clark.

As a long-time fan of the show, it borders on painful to see it going in this direction. Odd as it may seem, the Green Arrow character was the one to point it out — Clark is acting selfish, laying around on the couch while the world around him falls apart.

In tune with the comics, the first few seasons portrayed him as a selfless, sacrificial hero. Clark's unwavering sense of right and wrong was defined by his incredible parents, not Lionel Luthor and Lana Lang.

So what else happened this week? Clark fell further out of touch with his moral center and Lois, who hasn't been on the show for months, had her heart broken by the clone/former Editor in Chief of the Daily Planet for no good reason. And Chloe, who got dumped by Jimmy Olsen for Supergirl and used to be in love with Clark, fell for the Green Arrow, who used to date Lois.

If older fans of the show who've lost touch with current episodes don't think that makes any sense — don't worry. You're about as confused as current fans are.

I don't want to come off in the wrong way. Smallville is a great show with a great premise. It's just one that's lost touch with its' original premise and its' original fans. I'm excited every time it comes on: but I can't wait until it gets back to being a show that's fun to watch week in and out.

 

[Serene]

I have read this reaview and I completely agree with you and the writers points.

Here is another from TVGuide with pretty much some similar views.

He's a TV Guide blogger that writes recaps about the show. And he apparently hated this episode almost entirely if you read the entire review.

I have to take a review with a big grain of salt from someone who not only thought that Chloe was hot for Ollie - And Chloe, who got dumped by Jimmy Olsen for Supergirl and used to be in love with Clark, fell for the Green Arrow, who used to date Lois.- (???), but who also initially referred to the Black Canary as a "fake Catwoman" (which he apparently edited out after someone corrected him on it.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Chris Carbott is wrong about Lana's dialogue in that episode

Course he gave Resident Evil a 4.5, so what the hell does he know.

 

[Prison Mike]

yeah I read that TV Guide blog and I pretty much disagreed with him. I thought Siren was one of the better episodes this season (if not the best episode so far). I never saw how Chloe has a crush on Green Arrow. She never gave that look. Plus his statement about BC being a "fake Catwoman" was just WTF?

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Yeah, I wanted to agree with some of his points, but they were just off key and off point as hell.

 

[mellyM]

I have read this reaview and I completely agree with you and the writers points.

Here is another from TVGuide with pretty much some similar views.

I don't really understand what he means by Clark further fell out of his moral center? He didn't even explain. It doesn't matter, I don't read reviews if I've seen the show, since I don't particular care what anyone else thought of it.

I don't mind episodes like this, and I don't think everything has to be all action all the time, Smallville has a nice balance and I think its very satisfying when they strike a more emotional note. While I think its time for Clark and Lana to part ways, I don't think a relationship thats been a core of the show since the beginning should just be dismissed because its not fun. I agree it would have been nice to have them be happy for just a little while, but we're way beyond that now, so let them have the ending they should.