7.11 - Siren - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[avidreader]

The thing is if Clark and Lana's relationship was fun and carefree, then there is probably very little reason why they shouldn't stay together and end up as eternal soul mates.

Cmill I didnt agree with any of those reviews. Siren was one of my favourite episodes this season, it had a nice balance of all the things that make Smallville great, and there were some long overdue conversations. I think some times when people see a Clark and Lana scene they just switch off and think its all melodrama without really listening to what's being said.

 

[Mikelus]

I don't care about reviews really, is just opinion, subjective. The important thing is if you enjoyed the episode, the rest doesn't matter.

 

[Cmill216]

The thing is if Clark and Lana's relationship was fun and carefree, then there is probably very little reason why they shouldn't stay together and end up as eternal soul mates.

Not necessarily. Their relationship can be as sunny as Al and Miles want it to be, but the big catch (of course) is that Clark can't stay in Smallville and be with her forever. His destiny is much bigger than that, and if there's going to be huge melodrama in their relationship at this point, it should be based off of that. Lana had a great line on that same note in "Action".

But this stuff lately is just a major headscratcher. I mean, just actually stop and wrap your head around this for a second: Lana sleeps with Clark's clone Bizarro, realizes she was in love with the clone, which causes a big rift in her relationship with Clark. If someone had told you that four seasons ago, what would your reaction have been?

All the talk about "no more secrets and lies" between them (which lead us to believe we'd finally get a truly adult Clark/Lana relationship) has just lead to.....wait for it.....MORE secrets and lies.

Before the season began I was pretty much against another turn on the Clark/Lana wheel, but I steadily warmed up to the idea of them finally being together sans mysteries and deceit. And yet, here we are and it's simply more of the same. The tragedy of the Clark/Lana romance is that Clark can't be with this woman of his dreams in this town. But at this point, it seems like being with her is causing more frustration and hardships than actual bliss.

 

[Timstuff]

They need to just get it all over with and have a 3 part series finale where Clark puts on the costume, moves to metropolis, confronts Lex for reals, and shacks up with Lois. The problem is, when they finally do what we've had 7 years of tedious teasing leading up to, the show will have to be over. After all, this is "Smallville," not "Metropolis," and as soon as it stops being "Smallville," they have to end it.

 

[avidreader]

Not necessarily. Their relationship can be as sunny as Al and Miles want it to be, but the big catch (of course) is that Clark can't stay in Smallville and be with her forever. His destiny is much bigger than that, and if there's going to be huge melodrama in their relationship at this point, it should be based off of that. Lana had a great line on that same note in "Action".

So why not move to Metropolis and be in the thick of the action, take on a secret identity and still have the love of your life waiting for you when you get home. It doesnt have to be an either/or situation.

But this stuff lately is just a major headscratcher. I mean, just actually stop and wrap your head around this for a second: Lana sleeps with Clark's clone Bizarro, realizes she was in love with the clone,

She was in love with the clone because she thought it was Clark. The unfortunate part of that situation was that the Clark she wants isnt the Clark she's got.

which causes a big rift in her relationship with Clark.

Where discovering the dilemmas of how a superhero lives with a human, and clones taking his place while he's wrapped up in some alien arctic ice-cube is just something that has to be dealt with in such a relationship. Can Lana and Clark cope with such a situation? They failed on this occasion, but they're still willing to plunge ahead and give it another try.

If someone had told you that four seasons ago, what would your reaction have been?

I'm not sure what you mean by 4 seasons ago.

All the talk about "no more secrets and lies" between them (which lead us to believe we'd finally get a truly adult Clark/Lana relationship) has just lead to.....wait for it.....MORE secrets and lies.

Yes, but these are secrets of a different magnitude. Clark laid all of his cards on the table by telling Lana that he was an alien, now we're seeing how much they can share with such a huge secret between them.

Before the season began I was pretty much against another turn on the Clark/Lana wheel, but I steadily warmed up to the idea of them finally being together sans mysteries and deceit. And yet, here we are and it's simply more of the same.

I think its a very different relationship and there was no way that Clark could leave Smallville with the feelings that he had for Lana. He needs to go through this "process" to understand and accept that it just isnt right.

The tragedy of the Clark/Lana romance is that Clark can't be with this woman of his dreams in this town.

The town has nothing to do with it because he can speed around the world in a split second. His mindset while he is still in Smallville is a different situation.

But at this point, it seems like being with her is causing more frustration and hardships than actual bliss.

Its a difficult relationship with lots of difficult situations, its never going to be easy no matter who ends up with. And I dont think its all been tragedy, they've had their special moments on several occasions. However, the show is a drama and you need to create drama to keep the story going. Get stuck in Blissful and it becomes boring.

 

[Cmill216]

So why not move to Metropolis and be in the thick of the action, take on a secret identity and still have the love of your life waiting for you when you get home. It doesnt have to be an either/or situation.

Don't ask me. Just look at the decades of Superman mythos that say otherwise. *shrugs*

The unfortunate part of that situation was that the Clark she wants isnt the Clark she's got.

Which again begs the question: why are they together?

Where discovering the dilemmas of how a superhero lives with a human, and clones taking his place while he's wrapped up in some alien arctic ice-cube is just something that has to be dealt with in such a relationship. Can Lana and Clark cope with such a situation. They failed on this occasion, but they're still willing to plunge ahead and give it another try.

....Wait, are you being sarcastic? LOL. I honestly can't tell.

Yes, but these are secrets of a different magnitude.

Clark laid all of his cards on the table by telling Lana that he was an alien, now we're seeing how much they can share with such a huge secret exposed.

But this is my problem: what's there NOT to share? Clark told her THE secret. The one secret that was keeping them from being together. It took us six years to get to that point, and yet we finally crossed that humongous hurdle only to find more murkiness on the other end.

For me, it's like standing in front of a wall with someone promising you that a pot of gold is waiting for you on the other end. All you have to do is climb 40 stories.

And then you finally finish climbing those stories, expecting there to be a glorious pay off for all of your hard work, but all you find on the other end is another wall.

After all these years Clark finally told Lana his secret so they could be together, but they're not even happy together. Tell me how that isn't painful for a viewer.

I think its a very different relationship and there was no way that Clark could leave Smallville with the feelings that he had for Lana.

He needs to go through this "process" to understand and accept that it just isnt right.

So they're suppose to go through this hellish relationship to learn that they aren't made for one another? Where does Clark's destiny being bigger than Smallville play into all of that?

And I dont think its all been tragedy, they've had their special moments on several occasions.

And how many of those special moments have occured when Clark didn't have his powers or wasn't even with Lana?

The problem I have is if Clark and Lana are going to be together for a period of time, can they not actually spend a few episodes as a genuine, passionate couple, thus making the eventual breakup all the more heartbreaking? Why bring them together just to create more melodrama? I'm very interested to see how these recent problems work themselves out, because I'm struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

However, the show is a drama and you need to create drama to keep the story going. Get stuck in Blissful and it becomes boring.

Of course there's going to be drama. But it reaches a point where things become unnecessarily redundant. Where the relationship barely changes at all, the same problems exist.

 

[Olea]

Cmill216, I agree with both your posts.

I think the problem with the Clana relationship is that it has been romanticised too much. Clark is future Superman and Lana was put in a pedestal so high, not even Clark could touch her. This epic romance of the star-crossed lovers was build up by the writers, producers - although it never existed in such a way in canon mythology - and they never really delivered. They left the fans longing to actually see some resemblance of a relationship, only to be failed again and again and again.

So what we're left with is the sweet taste of an unattainable dream. A dream that was never reality on the show. "Siren" screamed out-loud that the star-crossed lovers don't really know each other as they thought they did. And the dream is nothing but a wishful thought that will never be.

 

[triplet]

Wow....



I was actually feeling pretty good about this episode until I came in here. I'm going to leave again so I can go finish my review just so I can talk about this episode more in depth.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Will SOMEONE please tell me, WHAT WAS THE ENDING SONG!?

 

[SpideyVille]

Will SOMEONE please tell me, WHAT WAS THE ENDING SONG!?

"11/22" - Buddy

 

[The Caped Knight]

She was in love with the clone because she thought it was Clark. The unfortunate part of that situation was that the Clark she wants isnt the Clark she's got.

See this just further proves that Her & Clark just aren't ment to be.

Chloe for goodness sake figured out after her talk with lana , and then Bizarro telling to her face he's decided to leave Smallville for good with lana . That this wasn't the real Clark . (And she's no longer madly in love with clark like she was before, She's got Olsen on her mind now .) She's just his friend / side-kick now

A similar event to place in the Superman comics between Lois & Superman . When Clark was acting out of character both as Superman & Clark Kent, She Immediately knew that was her husband . later in the issue it was reveal that Brainiac was trying to play mind games with both her & Sups .

Heck in Superman Doomsday, Lois Figured out that the Sups that saved her from near death at the hands of toyman in the bus . Wasn't the real Superman / Clark Kent .

Your trying to tell me that lana couldn't tell that their was something wrong with Clark .

1. He was a lot more attentive to her every need

2. He opened up to her like never before

3. He was willing to do whatever it takes to bring down Lex Luthor

4. He supported her criminal acts that she's commeted

5. He had sex with her with his powers fully operational .


I know they say "Love is blind" but come on it's not that blind .

Every superhero true girlfriend or wife can always tell when their something wrong with ther boyfriend or husband .



I tell you if my girlfriend acted out of character like Bizarro did . I'd know their something up . Either


1. She's cheated on me

2. It's not really her

3. She's drunk

 

[Gmanofsteel]

Let's face it, everyone was fooled by Bizarro, cut Lana some slack. Heck, even Chloe was fooled until Bizarro asked about something that she knew Clark was supposed to know.

 

[The Caped Knight]

cut Lana some slack.

No Freaking way

For a woman who says she loves the guy, She sure as hell doesn't know him well enough . If she can't even tell the difference . that's pretty sad .

And then to tell the real guy that she was a lot happy with the fake than the real makes it even worst .

 

[SpideyVille]

No Freaking way

For a woman who says she loves the guy, She sure as hell doesn't know him well enough . If she can't even tell the difference . that's pretty sad .

And then to tell the real guy that she was a lot happy with the fake than the real makes it even worst .

I guess that's a big reason why they're not meant for each other

 

[The Caped Knight]

I guess that's a big reason why they're not meant for each other

It's part of it . No doubt about it now (That a key factor that Lois Lane has . and even Clark admits it in Season 5 episode "Oracle")


Clark Kent: There are times when I think you don't know me at all, and others where I think you know me better than anyone.

Lois Lane: That's what I'm here for, Smallville – one save at a time.

 

[SpideyVille]

It's part of it . No doubt about it now (That a key factor that Lois Lane has . and even Clark admits it in Season 5 episode "Oracle"


Clark Kent: There are times when I think you don't know me at all, and others where I think you know me better than anyone. )

Lois Lane: That's what I'm here for, Smallville – one save at a time.

I have to admit, while we likely won't ever see Clark and Lois in a real relationship on the show, they show know how to drop those hints of why those two are meant to be together

 

[The Caped Knight]

they show know how to drop those hints of why those two are meant to be together

It's one of the main things that keeps me watching this series (Despite all the other crap) I love The Lane & Kent Forshadowing . It reminds me that The Future is on The Horizon . Even thought right now thier is darkness all around, Their a Light at the end of the tunnel .

 

[user123456789]

can anyone explain this?

why was lana naked with bizarro?

she never did that with clark, unless he was de-powered

 

[heliorei]

Not necessarily. Their relationship can be as sunny as Al and Miles want it to be, but the big catch (of course) is that Clark can't stay in Smallville and be with her forever. His destiny is much bigger than that, and if there's going to be huge melodrama in their relationship at this point, it should be based off of that. Lana had a great line on that same note in "Action".

But this stuff lately is just a major headscratcher. I mean, just actually stop and wrap your head around this for a second: Lana sleeps with Clark's clone Bizarro, realizes she was in love with the clone, which causes a big rift in her relationship with Clark. If someone had told you that four seasons ago, what would your reaction have been?

All the talk about "no more secrets and lies" between them (which lead us to believe we'd finally get a truly adult Clark/Lana relationship) has just lead to.....wait for it.....MORE secrets and lies.

Before the season began I was pretty much against another turn on the Clark/Lana wheel, but I steadily warmed up to the idea of them finally being together sans mysteries and deceit. And yet, here we are and it's simply more of the same. The tragedy of the Clark/Lana romance is that Clark can't be with this woman of his dreams in this town. But at this point, it seems like being with her is causing more frustration and hardships than actual bliss.

QFT!!!

But this is my problem: what's there NOT to share? Clark told her THE secret. The one secret that was keeping them from being together. It took us six years to get to that point, and yet we finally crossed that humongous hurdle only to find more murkiness on the other end.

For me, it's like standing in front of a wall with someone promising you that a pot of gold is waiting for you on the other end. All you have to do is climb 40 stories.

And then you finally finish climbing those stories, expecting there to be a glorious pay off for all of your hard work, but all you find on the other end is another wall.

After all these years Clark finally told Lana his secret so they could be together, but they're not even happy together. Tell me how that isn't painful for a viewer.




And I dont think its all been tragedy, they've had their special moments on several occasions.
And how many of those special moments have occured when Clark didn't have his powers or wasn't even with Lana?

The problem I have is if Clark and Lana are going to be together for a period of time, can they not actually spend a few episodes as a genuine, passionate couple, thus making the eventual breakup all the more heartbreaking? Why bring them together just to create more melodrama? I'm very interested to see how these recent problems work themselves out, because I'm struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

IMHO, the big problem was that the idea was somehow making the audience believe that it was Clark's secret which was THE PROBLEM between Clark and Lana.


Wrong.

There was always trust issues from both sides, with Clark about his alien origin and Lana for several reasons. Look at Season 5: that's what happenned then and that's happenning now, at Season 7.


Of course I have to give Lana some slack: In a way, the phantom gave what she wanted at the time, especially when it concerned Lex.

But what troubles me about Lana, was that she had always this strict policy of no secrets and no lies and yet we, the audience, saw her lying and keeping secrets.

As far as I know, in the last scene of this episode, she was about to leave the farm to stay at Chloe's apartment without saying anything to Clark but to both Clark and Lana's surprise, he arrived at home when she was about to leave.

There's no trust, the relationship has always been too fragile to begin with and in a way when part of the audience believed, it was Clark's secret which was troubling the relationship, this season is proving them wrong.

However, I don't think this season had to do what was already done in season 5.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

The last page in this thread goes back to my original point: Why are people questioning the angst when it has always been there and is a part of the show? I mean I can understand if it has started to be like this for say maybe a season or two but its been the dynamic with the show for a while (and not just between Clark and Lana as well. Im suprised no one has stopped and analysed the ******ed relationship of Lionel and Lex, or Chloe and whoever).

Its like I said earlier, every questionable move with the characters is a decision made by the creators to prolong the show. Sure, the arc is something that could have been wrapped in 5 seasons but you know the CW is simply not having that. So you add on the angst of the 2 main characters of the show, because for all the hope that this is a Superman show, it is very much a CW show. And to be frank, Im ok with that because honestly the relationship have never been grating to me (you all take L's for that btw).


But I will say this though.....

Ive noticed people saying they didnt mind the relationship this season until the last 2 episodes. My question is, in a show that ignores and picks up on dynamics every second, why should this be an issue? Why is everyone making such a big deal out of it.

I also dont know why people take the assumption that Lana ACTUALLY was happy with Bizzarro seriously. I also dont see how its her fault she slept with Bizzarro and didnt know it was Clark. How the hell was she to know that was not Clark? OK, so he acted differently. But give dude credit, like some of you said he was acting like the Clark we wanted to be. Why are you guys kidding yourself? Most of us thought it was Clark for the most part of episode 9. So I think Lana felt dissapointed that it wasnt him (and he got shanked for it in the end). Like TW4S said, everyone didnt know took an episode for Chloe to realise and isnt she like the "freak expert" for the greater part of 7 plus years? And all she had was a hunch and "huh".
I said in the thread for that episode that I think wasnt being selfish at all for expressing dissapointment and I dont think she was neccessairly in love with Bizzaro but rather like all of us for a while she happy that Clark was finally the person we all hoped he was. And you cant say that is unusal of him, because over the past 8 years he has demonstrated.

Geek-boy eloquently put 5 points that Lana should have recognised as being unusal for Clark and suspect that something was "wrong". Poetically speaking, shouldnt those have been things that were "right". So like all of us, she was dissapointed, that after all, the real Clark is still this akward dude who doesnt open hope. Much like a parent views there kid or a bf to gf (or vice versa) hoping for the best and seeing the potential in someone is hardly selfish and being dissapointed when they keep it perspective and see that they havent, doesnt mean that they dont love them still.

Certain people wanna compare this couple to there actual girlfriends and boyfriends but anyone in a long term relationship would really know that you wanna see the best in your partner. Thats not trying to change them for your liking necessairly, that's seeing the best in them.



And please dont bring up Superman/Doomsday in any argument cause it only makes it weak. Its bad enough that abortion of a project shows how badly Bruce Timm has fallen off, but the plot was stupid as hell and worse than the actual Death/Return storyline in the comics. And I love the fact people use the example of Lois suspecting the other Superman wasnt the real Superman (Even a ******ed monkey would have suspicions, seeing as he died in her arms and then just reappeared) but ignore the fact that she still couldnt tell he was Clark for sure until Superman told her ass.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Let's face it, everyone was fooled by Bizarro, cut Lana some slack. Heck, even Chloe was fooled until Bizarro asked about something that she knew Clark was supposed to know.

Well, Lana has proven time and time again that she is completely willing to not look at obvious clues that someone's lying to her. Remember last year when she completely denied that anything was going on with Lex's 33.1 stuff, while standing on floor 33.1 which was suspiciously completely empty.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

smh@ y'all avoiding the gospel of my post.

 

[user123456789]

stop blaming lana or any other character for not recognizing bizarro

blame the writers and al/miles

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Like these fools thought it was him in episode 9....

 

[user123456789]

Like these fools thought it was him in episode 9....

what u talkin about willis