91st Annual Academy Awards

[Kane52630]

 

[AResistor]

Otherwise mediocre movies shouldn’t get Oscars just for meeting diversity/representation quotas.

That’s kind of ironically racist cheap pandering.

Says while ignoring 100% rotten tomatoes rating and #3 ALL TIME box office uninflated (which is higher than every superhero movie of recent years) showing the level of audience approval.

You didn’t like it personally - that’s an opinion. Objectively the film speaks for itself in a statistically factual manner - it didn’t get the critic rating or box office it did due to representation alone.

I don’t really like ‘Gone With The Wind,’ all that means is I don’t like ‘Gone With The Wind.’

 

[Schlosser85]

Actually I did like it....I just think calling it a Best Picture contender and etc is wildly overblown.

 

[Schlosser85]

It's definitely getting some recognition for costume, production design, and music.

The ones it should get.

 

[AResistor]

Actually I did like it....I just think calling it a Best Picture contender and etc is wildly overblown.

I would call asking for ‘Logan’ or other hero films to be nominated best picture overblown. And yes, this includes ‘The Dark Knight.’

Here, the film has historical and cultural importance that no other superhero movie has - and the critic/audience approval to boot which is hard to ignore. As said, I see it going the same way ‘Get Out’ did; mentioning not just for representation but it was a genre film that succeeded in similar ways that Black Panther did - both culturally and critically.

Personally rooting for ‘Boy Erased’ - but I find Black Panther hard to ignore since, as said, it succeeds on multiple fronts and it’s an important piece of cinematic history. A real game changer which defied old suit notions and opened many doors for movies to come.

 

[Schlosser85]

I don’t think Logan should be nominated either.

 

[Sithborg]

If they fill out the full 10 possible spots? Sure, toss it in. Definitely doesn't deserve to win.

 

[AResistor]

I don’t think Logan should be nominated either.

So you’re one of the ones who thinks ‘The Dark Knight’ should have? Taken from omitting mentioning that one, but I could be wrong.

For me the best nominees - critically approved, audience approved, it has something important to say, and if possible it changes how films are made in Hollywood. Black Panther checks all of these off (the last one might be hard to believe for some since Hollywood seems liberal, but the suits are very conservative - people saying it opened doors are in no way exaggerating). While TDK got up to audience approved, I wouldn’t say that it got the other two points I look for which is it benefits society and the industry.

 

[Schlosser85]

So you’re one of the ones who thinks ‘The Dark Knight’ should have? Taken from omitting mentioning that one, but I could be wrong.

For me the best nominees - critically approved, audience approved, it has something important to say, and if possible it changes how Hollywood films are made. Black Panther checks all of these off (the last one might be hard to believe for some since Hollywood seems liberal, but the suits are conservative - people saying it opened doors are in no way exaggerating). While TDK got up to pop culture, I wouldn’t say that it got the other two points I look for which is how it impacts/benefits society and the industry.

You added that into your post after I replied to it.

 

[Aximili86]

Ehh, Dennis Miller actually had a pretty cogent point on it on Kimmel the other night. It's just going to be 5 hours of smug actors railing against the President with some predictable winners thrown in, kinda best just checking the highlights of who won after-the-fact. Not that surprising the ratings are down of late.

 

[THORin]

Ehh, Dennis Miller actually had a pretty cogent point on it on Kimmel the other night. It's just going to be 5 hours of smug actors railing against the President with some predictable winners thrown in, kinda best just checking the highlights of who won after-the-fact. Not that surprising the ratings are down of late.

Fortunately, that's what I like!

 

[Spider-Fan]

In regards to Black Panther as a BP nominee, I am fine with it either way. It won't win, in any case.

 

[Kane52630]

2019 Independent Spirit Awards Nominees, ‘Eighth Grade’ & ‘We the Animals’ Lead

Best Feature

EIGHTH GRADE
FIRST REFORMED
IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK
LEAVE NO TRACE
YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE


Best Director

Debra Granik, LEAVE NO TRACE
Barry Jenkins, IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK
Tamara Jenkins, PRIVATE LIFE
Lynne Ramsay, YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE
Paul Schrader, FIRST REFORMED


Best First Feature

HEREDITARY
SORRY TO BOTHER YOU
THE TALE
WE THE ANIMALS
WILDLIFE


Best Female Lead

Glenn Close, THE WIFE
Toni Collette, HEREDITARY
Elsie Fisher, EIGHTH GRADE
Regina Hall, SUPPORT THE GIRLS
Helena Howard, MADELINE’S MADELINE
Carey Mulligan, WILDLIFE


Best Male Lead

John Cho, SEARCHING
Daveed Diggs, BLINDSPOTTING
Ethan Hawke, FIRST REFORMED
Christian Malheiros, SÓCRATES
Joaquin Phoenix, YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE


Best Supporting Female

Kayli Carter, PRIVATE LIFE
Tyne Daly, A BREAD FACTORY
Regina King, IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK
Thomasin Harcourt McKenzie, LEAVE NO TRACE
J. Smith-Cameron, NANCY


Best Supporting Male

Raúl Castillo, WE THE ANIMALS
Adam Driver, BLACKKKLANSMAN
Richard E. Grant, CAN YOU EVER FORGIVE ME?
Josh Hamilton, EIGHTH GRADE
John David Washington, MONSTERS AND MEN


Best Screenplay

Richard Glatzer (Writer/Story By), Rebecca Lenkiewicz & Wash Westmoreland, COLETTE
Nicole Holofcener & Jeff Whitty, CAN YOU EVER FORGIVE ME?
Tamara Jenkins, PRIVATE LIFE
Boots Riley, SORRY TO BOTHER YOU
Paul Schrader FIRST REFORMED

Best First Screenplay

Bo Burnham, EIGHTH GRADE
Christina Choe, NANCY
Cory Finley, THOROUGHBREDS
Jennifer Fox, THE TALE
Quinn Shephard (Writer/Story By) and Laurie Shephard (Story By), BLAME


Best Cinematography

Ashley Connor, MADELINE’S MADELINE
Diego Garcia, WILDLIFE
Benjamin Loeb, MANDY
Sayombhu Mukdeeprom, SUSPIRIA
Zak Mulligan, WE THE ANIMALS


Best Editing

Joe Bini, YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE
Keiko Deguchi, Brian A. Kates & Jeremiah Zagar, WE THE ANIMALS
Luke Dunkley, Nick Fenton, Chris Gill & Julian Hart, AMERICAN ANIMALS
Anne Fabini, Alex Hall and Gary Levy, THE TALE
Nick Houy, MID90S


John Cassavetes Award

A BREAD FACTORY
EN EL SÉPTIMO DÍA
NEVER GOIN’ BACK
SÓCRATES
THUNDER ROAD


Robert Altman Award

SUSPIRIA


Best Documentary

HALE COUNTY THIS MORNING, THIS EVENING
MINDING THE GAP
OF FATHERS AND SONS
ON HER SHOULDERS
SHIRKERS
WON’T YOU BE MY NEIGHBOR?


Best International Film

BURNING (South Korea)
THE FAVOURITE (United Kingdom)
HAPPY AS LAZZARO (Italy)
ROMA (Mexico)
SHOPLIFTERS (Japan)

 

[MadderMaximus]

Loeb's up for Best Cinematography? Sweet. Hopefully that can keep going through the season, Mandy was a gorgeous looking movie.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

So you’re one of the ones who thinks ‘The Dark Knight’ should have? Taken from omitting mentioning that one, but I could be wrong.

For me the best nominees - critically approved, audience approved, it has something important to say, and if possible it changes how films are made in Hollywood. Black Panther checks all of these off (the last one might be hard to believe for some since Hollywood seems liberal, but the suits are very conservative - people saying it opened doors are in no way exaggerating). While TDK got up to audience approved, I wouldn’t say that it got the other two points I look for which is it benefits society and the industry.

LOL Mad Max: Fury Road is a movie about a freaking car race in 2 hours, and it deserved every big nominations it got and hailed as one of the best movie of this decade.

I mean we can even argue that TDK is about terrorize, 9/11,... all that kind of stuff.

If a movie is good, it's good. Who cares if it's important or not. Goodfellas is a movie about the life of a gangster and it's one of the best movie of all time. I can name a dozen more examples,...

I think Black Panther has a decent chance at getting a Best Picture nod, though.

About TDK, its Best Picture snub was the reason The Academy widen to 10 slots (Gary Sinis, The President of The Academy back then confirmed this). If Oscar have had 10 Best Picture nominee back in 2008, TDK would have taken 1 slot undoubtedly

 

[AResistor]

LOL Mad Max: Fury Road is a movie about a freaking car race in 2 hours, and it deserved every big nominations it got and hailed as one of the best movie of this decade.

I mean we can even argue that TDK is about terrorize, 9/11,... all that kind of stuff.

If a movie is good, it's good. Who cares if it's important or not. Goodfellas is a movie about the life of a gangster and it's one of the best movie of all time. I can name a dozen more examples,...

I think Black Panther has a decent chance at getting a Best Picture nod, though.

About TDK, its Best Picture snub was the reason The Academy widen to 10 slots (Gary Sinis, The President of The Academy back then confirmed this). If Oscar have had 10 Best Picture nominee back in 2008, TDK would have taken 1 slot undoubtedly

Didn't mention Mad Max, but I still wouldn't say TDK is best picture caliber. However, I wouldn't say many other megablockbusters are.

While TDK on a content level is akin to BP, as said I look for something with more substance -- BP goes beyond content and it radically challenges how studio execs perceive megablockbusters. It was the first film at this budget level to feature mostly black talent behind and in front of the camera and it was the first film at this budget level to discuss what it means to be black today, something that before would have only been considered something that could be discussed in independent cinema. That's a major feat that revolutionizes how films going forward can and will be made and this is something it has that other films of this budget level don't.

For me, that's what makes it stand out ahead of other megablockbusters. The content matches TDK critically and due to its reception, but it also has a cultural and historical significance that TDK didn't (couldn't have) had. Films that challenge Hollywood in this big of a way rarely come about.

 

[jmc]

A best picture nod because of the ethnicity of the people behind the camera? Jesus.

 

[AResistor]

A best picture nod because of the ethnicity of the people behind the camera? Jesus.

If you actually took the time to read what I wrote, that isn't what I said at all.

Black Panther: 100% RT, #3 ALL TIME domestic box office (not adjusted), and it revolutionizes the way Hollywood perceives megablockbusters.

If it was just representation alone and the film itself was terrible - critically poor and/or failed at the box office, that would a be different story altogether and could have set the industry back years in terms of representation since it would have proven the bigoted views suits have correct. Everything combined is what led to the film changing how suits see projects which is why it stands out as also having a major cultural and historical significance.

Next time, actually read what people say before commenting. Might help.

 

[Drizzle]

2019 Independent Spirit Awards Nominees, ‘Eighth Grade’ & ‘We the Animals’ Lead

Best Feature

EIGHTH GRADE
FIRST REFORMED
IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK
LEAVE NO TRACE
YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE


Best Director

Debra Granik, LEAVE NO TRACE
Barry Jenkins, IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK
Tamara Jenkins, PRIVATE LIFE
Lynne Ramsay, YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE
Paul Schrader, FIRST REFORMED


Best First Feature

HEREDITARY
SORRY TO BOTHER YOU
THE TALE
WE THE ANIMALS
WILDLIFE


Best Female Lead

Glenn Close, THE WIFE
Toni Collette, HEREDITARY
Elsie Fisher, EIGHTH GRADE
Regina Hall, SUPPORT THE GIRLS
Helena Howard, MADELINE’S MADELINE
Carey Mulligan, WILDLIFE


Best Male Lead

John Cho, SEARCHING
Daveed Diggs, BLINDSPOTTING
Ethan Hawke, FIRST REFORMED
Christian Malheiros, SÓCRATES
Joaquin Phoenix, YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE


Best Supporting Female

Kayli Carter, PRIVATE LIFE
Tyne Daly, A BREAD FACTORY
Regina King, IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK
Thomasin Harcourt McKenzie, LEAVE NO TRACE
J. Smith-Cameron, NANCY


Best Supporting Male

Raúl Castillo, WE THE ANIMALS
Adam Driver, BLACKKKLANSMAN
Richard E. Grant, CAN YOU EVER FORGIVE ME?
Josh Hamilton, EIGHTH GRADE
John David Washington, MONSTERS AND MEN


Best Screenplay

Richard Glatzer (Writer/Story By), Rebecca Lenkiewicz & Wash Westmoreland, COLETTE
Nicole Holofcener & Jeff Whitty, CAN YOU EVER FORGIVE ME?
Tamara Jenkins, PRIVATE LIFE
Boots Riley, SORRY TO BOTHER YOU
Paul Schrader FIRST REFORMED

Best First Screenplay

Bo Burnham, EIGHTH GRADE
Christina Choe, NANCY
Cory Finley, THOROUGHBREDS
Jennifer Fox, THE TALE
Quinn Shephard (Writer/Story By) and Laurie Shephard (Story By), BLAME


Best Cinematography

Ashley Connor, MADELINE’S MADELINE
Diego Garcia, WILDLIFE
Benjamin Loeb, MANDY
Sayombhu Mukdeeprom, SUSPIRIA
Zak Mulligan, WE THE ANIMALS


Best Editing

Joe Bini, YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE
Keiko Deguchi, Brian A. Kates & Jeremiah Zagar, WE THE ANIMALS
Luke Dunkley, Nick Fenton, Chris Gill & Julian Hart, AMERICAN ANIMALS
Anne Fabini, Alex Hall and Gary Levy, THE TALE
Nick Houy, MID90S


John Cassavetes Award

A BREAD FACTORY
EN EL SÉPTIMO DÍA
NEVER GOIN’ BACK
SÓCRATES
THUNDER ROAD


Robert Altman Award

SUSPIRIA


Best Documentary

HALE COUNTY THIS MORNING, THIS EVENING
MINDING THE GAP
OF FATHERS AND SONS
ON HER SHOULDERS
SHIRKERS
WON’T YOU BE MY NEIGHBOR?


Best International Film

BURNING (South Korea)
THE FAVOURITE (United Kingdom)
HAPPY AS LAZZARO (Italy)
ROMA (Mexico)
SHOPLIFTERS (Japan)

How did they nominate Adam Driver but not John David Washington for BlacKkKlansman? In fact, how did BlacKkKlansman even get nominated for an Independent Spirit Award? That was a wide release Hollywood production.

 

[AResistor]

How did they nominate Adam Driver but not John David Washington for BlacKkKlansman? In fact, how did BlacKkKlansman even get nominated for an Independent Spirit Award? That was a wide release Hollywood production.

May be due to the lead male actor category being more competitive.

As per wide release, eh - that'd also make it questionable why some of the other films are on there as well; most notably 'Hereditary.'

 

[jmc]

If you actually took the time to read what I wrote, that isn't what I said at all.

Black Panther: 100% RT, #3 ALL TIME domestic box office (not adjusted), and it revolutionizes the way Hollywood perceives megablockbusters.

If it was just representation alone and the film itself was terrible - critically poor and/or failed at the box office, that would a be different story altogether and could have set the industry back years in terms of representation since it would have proven the bigoted views suits have correct. Everything combined is what led to the film changing how suits see projects which is why it stands out as also having a major cultural and historical significance.

Next time, actually read what people say before commenting. Might help.

For starters, I think the whole thing about it revolutionising blockbusters is a bit overblown, it might influence some creative decisions in the future but the reality is there’s nothing on a technical or to a lesser extent a script level BP has done that separates it all that much from many superhero films. Look, the reality is most people don’t care who worked behind the camera for any film, so to say that should be a criteria for a BP nomination is kinda silly. The film has to be judged on its merits and for the creative decisions. I don’t have an issue with cultural phenomenon being factored in, plenty of films that were cultural phenomenons have been nominated, but nominating because it might change some attitudes in the board rooms is ridiculous to me.

 

[AResistor]

(1)For starters, I think the whole thing about it revolutionising blockbusters is a bit overblown, it might influence some creative decisions in the future but the reality is there’s nothing on a technical or to a lesser extent a script level BP has done that separates it all that much from many superhero films. (2)Look, the reality is most people don’t care who worked behind the camera for any film, so to say that should be a criteria for a BP nomination is kinda silly. (3)The film has to be judged on its merits and for the creative decisions. I don’t have an issue with cultural phenomenon being factored in, plenty of films that were cultural phenomenons have been nominated, but nominating because it might change some attitudes in the board rooms is ridiculous to me.

(1) In terms of good guy fighting bad guy being done in a great way? No, it doesn't do anything different. In terms of the deeper themes at play that were seen as too risky to be in a film of this budget before BP? Yes, it does a lot different.

(2) As someone who works in the industry, I can say with confidence you really have an optimistic view of who suits are. While the audience may not care, suits did for years. This is the reason why Black Panther was the first. Also, with all likelihood, if it wasn't MARVEL to be the first - the first may not have happened for quite some years still. Sad fact, but it certainly was the pull of MARVEL that was needed here. People have this view that Hollywood is some liberal paradise - truth is, it's not. Hell, gay actors are still refused to play major roles in big blockbuster movies. Due to where I was, I practically sat in on the 'Man of Steel' casting and can back up the stories that Matt Bomer's name did come up, as did the suits not wanting him due to his sexuality alone. Prior to BP, white leads were focused on because "white sells." The people that the public sees as the face of Hollywood is liberal - the suits aren't. There are so many unspoken rules and many of them are rooted in bigotry that'd really shock people. It goes to gender as well, it's gotten to the point where many are calling the system out for it publicly. There is a big evolution happening right now within Hollywood since yeah - the system is conservative as f. BP is a risk no others would or did take, and frankly knowing the system if not for MARVEL's pull it'd still be years away.

(3) 100% Rotten Tomatoes, #3 ALL TIME box office. You were saying? BP has credentials that can be statistically backed up.

 

[jmc]

There’s nothing inherently riskier in BP than there was in any other superhero film that had thought provoking messages. The only reason it sets itself apart from other Marvel movies is they gave the villain justification for his actions, which is something that had been missing from the franchise for a long time. Trust me, I don’t think Hollywood is this progressive place looking to give everyone equal opportunity, in fact there’s a lot about the industry I despise, it’s a business and their first priority is the bottom line. I don’t know what the actual long term impact of BP will be, maybe it’s big, maybe it’s small, maybe nothing changes. I don’t know. All I know is the film should be judged for what it is, not for potential changes in the real world it has no control over. That to me is removing the art out of the equation.

 

[AResistor]

(1)There’s nothing inherently riskier in BP than there was in any other superhero film that had thought provoking messages. The only reason it sets itself apart from other Marvel movies is they gave the villain justification for his actions, which is something that had been missing from the franchise for a long time. Trust me, I don’t think Hollywood is this progressive place looking to give everyone equal opportunity, in fact there’s a lot about the industry I despise, it’s a business and their first priority is the bottom line. I don’t know what the actual long term impact of BP will be, maybe it’s big, maybe it’s small, maybe nothing changes. I don’t know. (2) All I know is the film should be judged for what it is, not for potential changes in the real world it has no control over. That to me is removing the art out of the equation.

(1) Again you're thinking like a general audience member. Two of the unspoken rules in Hollywood was "Films with a high budget with a mostly black cast can't succeed at box office and it'll flop" another is "Films speaking about what it means to be black can't do well if they're high budgeted, thus this territory can only be discussed in independent cinema." Look around and you'll see many, many others who work in the industry saying the same thing about how BP was a "risk" precisely because it challenged these notions suits have. General audience don't, suits do. Suits are more conservative than many in the general population. There have been many, unpublished cases, where a spec script has a black lead and he's changed to a white guy once a studio acquires it - I know - because I've seen that practice in action because the old school notion was "white sells."

(2) It would be phenomenal if it changes people outside of the industry as well, however it already has changed the industry since it proved old school Hollywood suit notions are wrong. And as said - the content critically and at the box office - speaks for itself.

Adding: With those two unspoken rules flip black for any gender or minority grouping for many of the other "unspoken rules" that guide how suits think. This is why so many actors, writers, directors, etc. are setting out to challenge these notions that suits have - whether it's through content or publicly speaking out about it - because it does dampen the creativity one can have due to placing restraints on the kinds of stories that can be told.

 

[jmc]

I think it’s common knowledge that the suits are never right, so many films throughout history prove these people wrong in so many different ways. My issue is having that as a criteria for judging the art itself. That to me is not only a ridiculous criteria, it’s insulting to the people who made the movie. I’m a creative person by trade and the idea of something I’ve done being judged for something other than the finished work is appalling to me.