93rd Annual Academy Awards

[jmc]

No, I don't. Because every time you try and make a point it is proven wrong, and then you jump to another one like that somehow helps your argument It doesn't. I mean I am use to it at this point, but that doesn't change that the points you think you are making are dismantled in less then half a post.

I clarified things, asked a follow up question, that you failed to answer. I'm not changing things, I'm relating it to the original point I was trying to make. What happens if I want to make a film somewhere in Europe, where presumably I'll have to make do with the local film resources there?

 

[jmc]

But it would be.


And possibly even covering more requirements, I don't know all the ins and outs of their production, but those are all verifiable.

I find it hilariously American to think the people working on the Korean movie which has an established film industry would ever consider themselves to be underrepresented.

 

[weezerspider]

I find it hilariously American to think the people working on the Korean movie which has an established film industry would ever consider themselves to be underrepresented.

Yeah, Parasite technically doesn’t have any minorities in it. It’s a South Korean film made by South Korean people.

The Oscars have and will always suck, but adding “criteria” for art, no matter how well intentioned, is always bad. As the saying goes “the road to Hell is paved by good intentions”.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I clarified things, asked a follow up question, that you failed to answer. I'm not changing things, I'm relating it to the original point I was trying to make. What happens if I want to make a film somewhere in Europe, where presumably I'll have to make do with the local film resources there?

You literally gave two examples that were proven to be wrong. Your clarification doesn't change you are literally complaining about something you don't understand.

But let's try this. You want to make a movie in Europe. What is the production company? Where is the production company based? How many times has the production company been given a Best Picture Oscar nomination? What are the chances these rules would apply to a random all lily white cast and crew of men in a fully Czech Republic production in 2020?

Guess what wiki tells us:

Academy Award for Best Picture - Wikipedia

Only eleven non-English language films have been nominated in the category: La Grande Illusion (French, 1938); Z (French, 1969); The Emigrants (Swedish, 1972); Cries and Whispers (Swedish, 1973); The Postman (Il Postino) (Italian/Spanish, 1995); Life Is Beautiful (Italian, 1998); Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Mandarin Chinese, 2000); Letters from Iwo Jima (Japanese, 2006, but ineligible for Best Foreign Language Film, as it was an American production); Amour (French, 2012); Roma (Spanish/Mixtec, 2018); and Parasite (Korean, 2019).[21] Parasite became the first film not in English to win Best Picture.[22]

Only ten films wholly financed outside the United States have won Best Picture, eight of which were financed, in part or in whole, by the United Kingdom: Hamlet (1948), Tom Jones (1963), A Man for All Seasons (1966), Chariots of Fire (1981), Gandhi (1982), The Last Emperor (1987), Slumdog Millionaire (2008), and The King's Speech (2010). The ninth film, The Artist (2011), was financed by France and the tenth film, Parasite (2019), was financed by South Korea.[23]

You are crying wolf for a Czech production that doesn't exist.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I find it hilariously American to think the people working on the Korean movie which has an established film industry would ever consider themselves to be underrepresented.

I am going to assume it's underrepresented in America. You know, where the Oscars are held and handed out.

Yeah, Parasite technically doesn’t have any minorities in it. It’s a South Korean film made by South Korean people.

The Oscars have and will always suck, but adding “criteria” for art, no matter how well intentioned, is always bad. As the saying goes “the road to Hell is paved by good intentions”.

You do realize there is already criteria at the Oscars right? Has been since they started. How do you hold awards without criteria. How do you have categories?

 

[jmc]

You literally gave two examples that were proven to be wrong. Your clarification doesn't change you are literally complaining about something you don't understand.

But let's try this. You want to make a movie in Europe. What is the production company? Where is the production company based? How many times has the production company been given a Best Picture Oscar nomination? What are the chances these rules would apply to a random all lily white cast and crew of men in a fully Czech Republic production in 2020?

Guess what wiki tells us:

Academy Award for Best Picture - Wikipedia



You are crying wolf for a Czech production that doesn't exist.

The point is ever film deserves a chance regardless if it's a big blockbuster or a small film shot on location in Prague with minimal cast and crew. Studios can weather these mandates, it's the smaller indies that run the being eliminated because they don't always have the resources at hand, nor do many expect to be nominated in the first place. Again, not every film sets out to win Oscars, some come about organically, and no matter how well intentioned this stuff is it's eventually going to back fire. That's just the creative issues. There's of course the ethical issues associated with this as well.

 

[jmc]

I am going to assume it's underrepresented in America. You know, where the Oscars are held and handed out.

By their standards they're not. Inferring people from one country they are lesser than another, not exactly my idea of a well meaning conversation.

 

[HBarnill]

Conservatives, Liberals, calm the hell down.

If you actually read the guidelines, none of this will make a difference. You can make a movie about straight, white men, have the makeup artist, production designer, and costume designer be white women, and you’re still good to go.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The point is ever film deserves a chance regardless if it's a big blockbuster or a small film shot on location in Prague with minimal cast and crew. Studios can weather these mandates, it's the smaller indies that run the being eliminated because they don't always have the resources at hand, nor do many expect to be nominated in the first place. Again, not every film sets out to win Oscars, some come about organically, and no matter how well intentioned this stuff is it's eventually going to back fire. That's just the creative issues. There's of course the ethical issues associated with this as well.

That has never been how the Oscars have been. Literally. Not for one day of their existence. Hence the use of criteria, for what even qualifies for the Oscars. Have you been setting up picketing the Oscars since birth over the fact the movies must be shown in LA and/or New York for a set amount of time? How about the length of the films?

Who is it going to backfire on exactly? What is the ethical issue of these new rules when it comes to winning a Oscar, which no one has to try and win?

 

[Sithborg]

The moment you start placing creative mandates on who you can work with and what the creative criteria is, is the start of a disaster waiting to. Because it will not only not solve the problem that's trying to be solved, it will inevitably make the situation worse, because once they realise it's not working, they'll start to implement harsher criteria in a further idiotic attempt to fix it. John Boyega came out literally a week ago saying he felt like he was tokenised by Disney in Star Wars, and this is literally mandating exactly that industry wide.

And how is that different than the various forms of nepotism that exists. Or hell, the unwritten rules of getting Oscar attention.

 

[TheVileOne]

I liked Parasite.

 

[jmc]

Conservatives, Liberals, calm the hell down.

If you actually read the guidelines, none of this will make a difference. You can make a movie about straight, white men, have the makeup artist, production designer, and costume designer be white women, and you’re still good to go.

You forgot the non-affiliated.

 

[jmc]

That has never been how the Oscars have been. Literally. Not for one day of their existence. Hence the use of criteria, for what even qualifies for the Oscars. Have you been setting up picketing the Oscars since birth over the fact the movies must be shown in LA and/or New York for a set amount of time? How about the length of the films?

Who is it going to backfire on exactly? What is the ethical issue of these new rules when it comes to winning a Oscar, which no one has to try and win?

Like I said, when this doesn't produce for them the results they want, when they keep listening to the blue haired weirdos on Twitter, they'll start adding further requirements which will suffocate creativity, because ultimately they are more interested in how they look to the world. But hey, the Academy lost integrity years ago, may as well lose what little is left I suppose.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Like I said, when this doesn't produce for them the results they want, when they keep listening to the blue haired weirdos on Twitter, they'll start adding further requirements which will suffocate creativity, because ultimately they are more interested in how they look to the world. But hey, the Academy lost integrity years ago, may as well lose what little is left I suppose.

Yeah, the blue haired weirdos...

Beyond the general insulting manner of your post on these subjects, and you do love to talk about these subjects, I find it utterly astounding from an attempt at the bare minimum of inclusiveness by the Oscars to the attractiveness of a children's cartoon character, you consistently put forward arguments that boil down to vague slippery slopes, that of course never materializes.

 

[jmc]

Because it's the wrong solutions that are being put forth. You need to foster change and creativity from the ground up not the top down. The problem with the ground up approach is it takes time, in some cases many years for things to materialise, and lots of investment, but that's not quick enough for some people. When you take short cuts or force things to happen it leads to worse outcomes. I frankly don't like the idea of what's proposed here as it shows little respect to the people it's supposedly trying to help. On top of that, categorising people into who is and who isn't getting the work or their ideas produced will do little more but create infighting. I don't like nor do I want that. But I'm all for giving people the tools to make their way up, or even better, produce something better than what currently exists. We get so struck trying to work in a system instead of getting people to think about how you go around it. Real change comes from those who think outside the box, not from those within.

 

[Sithborg]

Because it's the wrong solutions that are being put forth. You need to foster change and creativity from the ground up not the top down. The problem with the ground up approach is it takes time, in some cases many years for things to materialise, and lots of investment, but that's not quick enough for some people. When you take short cuts or force things to happen it leads to worse outcomes. I frankly don't like the idea of what's proposed here as it shows little respect to the people it's supposedly trying to help. On top of that, categorising people into who is and who isn't getting the work or their ideas produced will do little more but create infighting. I don't like nor do I want that. But I'm all for giving people the tools to make their way up, or even better, produce something better than what currently exists. We get so struck trying to work in a system instead of getting people to think about how you go around it. Real change comes from those who think outside the box, not from those within.

Almost as if there are barriers in place to prevent that. Radical thought, I know. When Bryan Singer can get a half a million dollar payday, even with all the problems he has had in the filming of his last three films, advocating for the status quo in Hollywood is refusal to accept reality. I saw a bit from an article about comics, about how black creators are getting a lot of interest in the wake of the current unrest. They are happy with it, but they do not expect it to last.

Hell, the Academy would love to have Polanski back, if not for some very, very understandable blowback. Saying Hollywood should start to reflect more like America is not a bad thing. How long has Tyler Perry been the refuge for black people looking to get into the industry?

And real change is often not slow. Quite often, real change is sudden, abrupt, and angers a lot of peope.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

I mean most movies already qualified for this criteria anyway.

But why do Oscar have to make this official like this? I mean it’s ridiculous in the sense that the Academy is trying to say: ”Look we are not racist anymore because we put a restriction on the nominated movies, which are mostly American or English movies anyway”

Instead of this, you know what’s better? Try to nominate movies from Asia or anywhere besides America and England more frequently. There’s tons of great movies out there, and if by these rules they still nominate most American movies, then it really just comes off as hypocritical.

 

[jmc]

Almost as if there are barriers in place to prevent that. Radical thought, I know. When Bryan Singer can get a half a million dollar payday, even with all the problems he has had in the filming of his last three films, advocating for the status quo in Hollywood is refusal to accept reality. I saw a bit from an article about comics, about how black creators are getting a lot of interest in the wake of the current unrest. They are happy with it, but they do not expect it to last.

Hell, the Academy would love to have Polanski back, if not for some very, very understandable blowback. Saying Hollywood should start to reflect more like America is not a bad thing. How long has Tyler Perry been the refuge for black people looking to get into the industry?

And real change is often not slow. Quite often, real change is sudden, abrupt, and angers a lot of peope.

And it's not always the right way forward. They tired this in Britain years ago. It didn't result in anything changing. It didn't work there, it won't work here, and the problem will thus still remain. So, people can either feel as if something is being accomplished, or they can start working towards building something newer and better. We're in a time where the film industry has never been more vulnerable. If there's ever an opportunity for a new formula to emerge the window of opportunity is now. You don't change the status quo by going through it, you change it by throwing down the gauntlet and challenging them at their own game. Every great innovation came about because someone got sick and tired of trying to do things the old fashioned way. If a newer, modern film industry could be developed that could genuinely rival Hollywood you know what you'd get? A bidding war for the talent, more investment into education and training, more opportunities developing and more jobs, more innovative story telling, more creative risks being taken, the list goes on. Competition breads innovation and change.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Presumably, you only need to qualify for half of these requirements, correct? So you want to get around the quota? Hire minority interns on your production and some minorities in departments like marketing or what not. I bet you that is what the movies that don't meet the casting or department head requirements will do.

I think the headline sounds worse than it really is when you actually read ALL the requirements.

 

[Charzhin0]

Conservatives, Liberals, calm the hell down.

If you actually read the guidelines, none of this will make a difference. You can make a movie about straight, white men, have the makeup artist, production designer, and costume designer be white women, and you’re still good to go.

I've only just read the article of the new criteria so don't fully grasp it, but why would your scenario be good to go? Is it because they could still qualify for Best Picture in 2 other catergories?

 

[weezerspider]

I am going to assume it's underrepresented in America. You know, where the Oscars are held and handed out.


You do realize there is already criteria at the Oscars right? Has been since they started. How do you hold awards without criteria. How do you have categories?

You do realize I said the Oscars have ALWAYS sucked, right? It’s art. Not sports. There shouldn’t be awards.

 

[MadVillainy]

I mean most movies already qualified for this criteria anyway.

But why do Oscar have to make this official like this? I mean it’s ridiculous in the sense that the Academy is trying to say: ”Look we are not racist anymore because we put a restriction on the nominated movies, which are mostly American or English movies anyway”

Instead of this, you know what’s better? Try to nominate movies from Asia or anywhere besides America and England more frequently. There’s tons of great movies out there, and if by these rules they still nominate most American movies, then it really just comes off as hypocritical.

Posturing.

Same thing with Marvel coming out and saying "The future is Marvel is female" and other buzzwordy things that read like something a college would put in their brochure/marketing to make them seem diverse.

I agree with your final paragraph too

 

[MadVillainy]

Conservatives, Liberals, calm the hell down.

If you actually read the guidelines, none of this will make a difference. You can make a movie about straight, white men, have the makeup artist, production designer, and costume designer be white women, and you’re still good to go.

Thank you. People don't read and just look to get mad at things.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah, the blue haired weirdos...

Beyond the general insulting manner of your post on these subjects, and you do love to talk about these subjects, I find it utterly astounding from an attempt at the bare minimum of inclusiveness by the Oscars to the attractiveness of a children's cartoon character, you consistently put forward arguments that boil down to vague slippery slopes, that of course never materializes.

 

[CaptainWagner]

The point is ever film deserves a chance regardless if it's a big blockbuster or a small film shot on location in Prague with minimal cast and crew. Studios can weather these mandates, it's the smaller indies that run the being eliminated because they don't always have the resources at hand, nor do many expect to be nominated in the first place. Again, not every film sets out to win Oscars, some come about organically, and no matter how well intentioned this stuff is it's eventually going to back fire. That's just the creative issues. There's of course the ethical issues associated with this as well.

In my experience, it's the independent films outside of the studio system that tend to have the broadest range of diversity and representation behind the camera...