A defensive approach to X-Men 3 (SPOILERS)

[Maze]

Good for you, being as I know how basic story telling principles work, I'll enjoy the movie. You won't. Sorry

well you can be condescending all you wan't Matt , i happen to know one or two things about movie making , and sorry neither Kinberg , Penn or you convince me..

i hope to be surprised May 24th by the movie you just know will be good ..i really am.

 

[Matt]

I agree in that I don't want time wasted on background for most of the brotherhood members (even Juggernaut - this isn't the time for it). Beast, Angel, Kitty and even Colosssus are, however, important new characters that we need to get to know fully. Cyke also needs a few poignant scenes before he dies if his death is to strike a chord whether or not he has been underdeveloped in the previous films.

Kitty and Collossus are easy...students. Beast, a former student it seems as he is at Jeans funeral. As for Angel...it looks like they are going to give him an original and development.

The fact is, the Xavier camp needs soldiers as well as the brotherhood, and that is where Kitty, Colossus, Beast, etc come into play.

 

[Matt]

well you can be condescending all you wan't Matt , i happen to know one or two things about movie making , and sorry neither Kinberg , Penn or you convince me..

i hope to be surprised May 24th by the movie you just know will be good ..i really am.

I didn't say I know it will be good. I said they are taking the logical next step in story telling.

 

[Maze]

I didn't say I know it will be good. I said they are taking the logical next step in story telling.

Yup , but you also said

Good for you, being as I know how basic story telling principles work, I'll enjoy the movie. You won't. Sorry

 

[tonytr1687]

well you can be condescending all you wan't Matt , i happen to know one or two things about movie making , and sorry neither Kinberg , Penn or you convince me..

i hope to be surprised May 24th..i really am.

Especially since Kinberg's works include XXX2, Fantastic Four, and Mr. and Mrs. Smith. The last one was entertaining but nothing more...and X3 should be a lot lot more. And Penn's credits include such "masterpieces" as Inspector Gadget, Suspect Zero, and Elektra. She he worked on the story for X2 but that really doesnt mean a whole lot, especially when Singer and David Hayter also get story credit.

 

[tonytr1687]

Kitty and Collossus are easy...students. Beast, a former student it seems as he is at Jeans funeral. As for Angel...it looks like they are going to give him an original and development.

The fact is, the Xavier camp needs soldiers as well as the brotherhood, and that is where Kitty, Colossus, Beast, etc come into play.

You're telling me Beast doesnt need to be developed that much? I'm glad you're not a filmmaker...characters are just as important as the story, and they should never be there just for the sake of serving it unless they're small parts like Arclight or Quills.

 

[Matt]

Yup , but you also said

Well with all respect, it does seem as though your mind is very much so made up.

 

[Matt]

You're telling me Beast doesnt need to be developed that much? I'm glad you're not a filmmaker...characters are just as important as the story, and they should never be there just for the sake of serving it unless they're small parts like Arclight or Quills.

Ok, every soldier who died in Saving Private Ryan should've had a complete backstory. Like I said, as fans we are more sensetive...from a film making and story telling perspective...you need to have mutants to serve as nothing more than glorified cameos.

 

[Iceman]

Kitty and Collossus are easy...students. Beast, a former student it seems as he is at Jeans funeral. As for Angel...it looks like they are going to give him an original and development.

The fact is, the Xavier camp needs soldiers as well as the brotherhood, and that is where Kitty, Colossus, Beast, etc come into play.

Only Angel's background should take up much screentime but it's serving the plot so is time well used.

The difference I see with the X-Men 'soldiers' is that each of them are the favourite characters of many fans. I'll be happy as long as they all get enough quality time without using their powers for the audience to have empathy with them. This isn't as important for most of the brotherhood henchmen.

 

[Maze]

Especially since Kinberg's works include XXX2, Fantastic Four, and Mr. and Mrs. Smith. The last one was entertaining but nothing more...and X3 should be a lot lot more. And Penn's credits include such "masterpieces" as Inspector Gadget, Suspect Zero, and Elektra. She he worked on the story for X2 but that really doesnt mean a whole lot, especially when Singer and David Hayter also get story credit.

That too..

so to keep an open mind? sure..After all John Woo made a lot of bad movie before doing A Better Tomorow and The killer , but try to convince people that there are nothing to worry there is pushing it..

 

[Maze]

Well with all respect, it does seem as though your mind is very much so made up.

with all respect , i'm not the one who have written the above quote.

 

[Maze]

Ok, every soldier who died in Saving Private Ryan should've had a complete backstory. Like I said, as fans we are more sensetive...from a film making and story telling perspective...you need to have mutants to serve as nothing more than glorified cameos.

Again, no need to have complete backstory..

but a build up..

ps:Saving Private Ryan:170 min .

 

[tonytr1687]

Ok, every soldier who died in Saving Private Ryan should've had a complete backstory. Like I said, as fans we are more sensetive...from a film making and story telling perspective...you need to have mutants to serve as nothing more than glorified cameos.

Thats different. Thats a war movie. Kitty and Beast should not be mere soldiers as you put it. Colossus and the Brotherhood, okay...but the others? No

 

[Matt]

Thats different. Thats a war movie. Kitty and Beast should not be mere soldiers as you put it. Colossus and the Brotherhood, okay...but the others? No

Again, you empathize with them as you have read their exploits for thirty years. The casual movie goer does not need to empathize with them. Wolverine's line is pretty much all the development they need, about them making the choice and not knowing if they will come back. It established to the viewers that these are children being thrown in the middle of a war...thats all the casual viewer will need to empathize..

 

[tonytr1687]

Again, you empathize with them as you have read their exploits for thirty years. The casual movie goer does not need to empathize with them. Wolverine's line is pretty much all the development they need, about them making the choice and not knowing if they will come back. It established to the viewers that these are children being thrown in the middle of a war...thats all the casual viewer will need to empathize..

You're making the casual moviegoer sound stupid...you dont give them enough credit. They're wising up to ****ty movies nowadays and they expect more if they're gonna empathize with a character. And actually I dont read the comics. I've just studied them and now know everything about them and the characters. I'm speaking from the standpoint of a film buff who expects writers and directors to develop their characters if we're supposed to care about them when they go into battle. Merely showing me their powers and a two-dimensional personality isnt enough.

 

[Matt]

You're making the casual moviegoer sound stupid...you dont give them enough credit. They're wising up to ****ty movies nowadays and they expect more if they're gonna empathize with a character. And actually I dont read the comics. I've just studied them and now know everything about them and the characters. I'm speaking from the standpoint of a film buff who expects writers and directors to develop their characters if we're supposed to care about them when they go into battle. Merely showing me their powers and a two-dimensional personality isnt enough.

But it would be ok if they were a soldier with a gun and no personality?

 

[tonytr1687]

But it would be ok if they were a soldier with a gun and no personality?

Those ppl in Private Ryan that you're talking about are extras and background characters. The core group that we end up following in the movie, all of those guys were pretty well-developed. Kitty and Colossus and Beast are part of the core group in X3, so they should be given the same treatment.

 

[Matt]

Those ppl in Private Ryan that you're talking about are extras and background characters. The core group that we end up following in the movie, all of those guys were pretty well-developed. Kitty and Colossus and Beast are part of the core group in X3, so they should be given the same treatment.

No they aren't. They are the equivilant to a character in a horror movie who is there to bring up the body count. They are MINOR supporting characters. Their job is not to be developed. It is to be there to fight or die.

 

[Karea07]

nicely said Matt

 

[Maze]

No they aren't. They are the equivilant to a character in a horror movie who is there to bring up the body count. They are MINOR supporting characters. Their job is not to be developed. It is to be there to fight or die.

Yup , you're right,in a Jason movie one have a lot of characters that one don't care about who die..


.

 

[tonytr1687]

No they aren't. They are the equivilant to a character in a horror movie who is there to bring up the body count. They are MINOR supporting characters. Their job is not to be developed. It is to be there to fight or die.

Wow you're unbelievable. You're saying Kitty and Beast should just be there to fight and die? Well from the trailers and posters they sure do show up a lot for characters who are just there to "fight and die." They gotta set up Beast's job in the White House, his relationship to Xavier and the school, his conflicted view on the cure. Then Kitty has her relationships with Bobby and Rogue, and its obvious she's gonna have at least one poignant scene with Xavier since the film makes a point of having Storm comfort her later on in another scene.

 

[tonytr1687]

Yup , you're right,in a Jason movie one have a lot of characters that one don't care about who die..


.

This isnt a ****ing horror movie. It's a scifi action drama and we should expect characters like Kitty and Beast to be more than war fodder.

 

[Matt]

Wow you're unbelievable. You're saying Kitty and Beast should just be there to fight and die? Well from the trailers and posters they sure do show up a lot for characters who are just there to "fight and die." They gotta set up Beast's job in the White House, his relationship to Xavier and the school, his conflicted view on the cure. Then Kitty has her relationships with Bobby and Rogue, and its obvious she's gonna have at least one poignant scene with Xavier since the film makes a point of having Storm comfort her later on in another scene.

Kitty - Rogue and Bobby's friend...that really takes about 50 minutes to establish

Same with Beast, everything you said about him can be done in two or three lines.

It doesn't matter who they are in the comics. That is our flaw as comic fans, we cannot look past it. What matters is what purpose they serve in the film.

 

[Maze]

Good horror sci fi movie with a lot of minor characters (with one major one developed in an early movie )

Aliens Runtime: 137 min / USA:154 min (director's cut)

( and a movie with not as much subplots and "philosophy"as X3)

 

[Maze]

This isnt a ****ing horror movie. It's a scifi action drama and we should expect characters like Kitty and Beast to be more than war fodder.

Ah it's matt reasoning..What can one do ? lol