After repeated viewings I prefer..

[Agentsands77]

Begins was just too realistic for it's own good, imo.

Realism is the antithesis of the comic book movie.

Depends on the comic book. Realism is absolutely essential for some comic books, not so much for others. For Batman, you can have it either way - BEGINS still isn't anywhere near as realistic and down-to-earth as BATMAN: YEAR ONE was.

 

[Catman]

It's an interesting, but failed, experiment.

I've never been that impressed by BATMAN '89, so you're talking to the wrong man.

At the end of the day it comes down to taste. Its like James Bond. You prefer Licence to Kill and Casino Royale while others prefer Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me. And, the same applies to Batman. Some prefer more fantasy-like movies like B89 while other prefer more realistic stuff like BB.

To each his own.

 

[Agentsands77]

It does come down to subjective taste, sure, but for me, it's not about fantasy vs. realism. I have plenty of love and respect for both approaches.

I would love a fantastical Batman film... heck, I even love Batman's journeys in the areas of the supernatural (ala his meeting with the spirits of his parents in DEATH AND THE MAIDENS). But just because I would want something like that doesn't mean I couldn't also like a more realistic take on the hero, just as I wouldn't have to dislike lobster because I liked fillet mignon.

Similarly, I do love CASINO ROYALE. It's my favorite Bond movie. But GOLDFINGER and THUNDERBALL still rock hard, and YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, one of the most ludicrous Bond films, is probably my favorite Sean Connery entry. So it's not really a realistic/fantasy dichotomy there, either.

 

[Buttman]

At the end of the day it comes down to taste. Its like James Bond. You prefer Licence to Kill and Casino Royale while others prefer Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me. And, the same applies to Batman. Some prefer more fantasy-like movies like B89 while other prefer more realistic stuff like BB.

To each his own.

Well of course, that's what it will always come down too, but it sure can be fun to debate.

I find it odd nobody has mentioned the second "It's not who I am underneath.." before diving off the roof, I thought that was probably Bale's best performance of a line, as Batman.

On a final note, I think the fact your dad described it as "Jack Nicholoson's Batman film" speaks volumes about the film. t:

 

[Furious Styles]

Both films have their strengths and weaknesses, however that doesn't stop me from enjoying them both immensely.

One could go as fas as to say that in 1995, Goldeneye reintroduced James Bond to the general public and in 2006, Casino Royale was used as a vehicle to reinvent the character.

It can be debated whether or not that same idea can be applied to B'89 and Begins. However, there are some similarities to both franchises. Batman's introduction to the bigscreen was handled much differently than what we saw in Begins, and rightfully so.

I think both films accomplished the goals they set out for themselves, and I think fans of Batman are better off for it.

 

[Michael Myers]

I can't say for sure which Batman film I truly prefer over the other, but I will say that Begins is a great origin movie that was never really told before to the general audiences, where 1989 got straight to the action and is overall, a much more fun film to watch ultimately. Both are nothing short of fantastic, IMHO.

 

[Agentsands77]

As I've said before, on a quality level, I think both films are equal.

I think my like of BEGINS over the other comes down to the characterization of Batman. I vastly prefer the more heroic, noble, and less psychologically-troubled Batman of BEGINS. That's just who my Batman is, and it's largely why BATMAN BEGINS resonates a little more with me.

 

[Dark Spidey]

As I've said before, on a quality level, I think both films are equal.

I think my like of BEGINS over the other comes down to the characterization of Batman. I vastly prefer the more heroic, noble, and less psychologically-troubled Batman of BEGINS. That's just who my Batman is, and it's largely why BATMAN BEGINS resonates a little more with me.

Interesting. What makes you say that? I would argue that Bale's Batman was more psychologically-troubled than Keaton's.

 

[The Joker]

There's one scene in Begins that really bothers me. The one on the plane, where Bruce is saying to Alfred how he is going to change Gotham, and show the people it doesn't belong to the criminals and the corrupt etc.

Bale puts absolutely no energy into it at all. He acts like he's listing the issues that need to be addressed at a stockholder's meeting or something. He's dull, and almost sleepy in delivering these lines.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

There's one scene in Begins that really bothers me. The one on the plane, where Bruce is saying to Alfred how he is going to change Gotham, and show the people it doesn't belong to the criminals and the corrupt etc.

Bale puts absolutely no energy into it at all. He acts like he's listing the issues that need to be addressed at a stockholder's meeting or something. He's dull, and almost sleepy in delivering these lines.

I wouldn't say that, but the lines did feel stiff and scripted. It didn't feel right. But I blame that on Goyer. Bale did the best he could with such wooden dialogue. Almost made it liveable.

 

[El Payaso]

There's one scene in Begins that really bothers me. The one on the plane, where Bruce is saying to Alfred how he is going to change Gotham, and show the people it doesn't belong to the criminals and the corrupt etc.

Bale puts absolutely no energy into it at all. He acts like he's listing the issues that need to be addressed at a stockholder's meeting or something. He's dull, and almost sleepy in delivering these lines.

I agree with Lathrop. Bale did very good with Goyer's spoonfeeding lines. Any other actor with less talent than Bale would have sounded terrible.

 

[Catman]

Thats another thing that B89 does better. BB had whatever lines like, "its not who you are underneath but what you do that defines you."

How can you beat B89 lines like:
The Joker: Haven't you ever heard of the healing power of laughter?
The Joker: I've been dead once already; it's very liberating. You might think of it as... therapy.
The Joker: I'm givin' away free money, and where's the Batman? Home washing his tights?
[laughs]
The Joker: Jack is dead, my friend. You can call me Joker and as you can see I'm a lot happier.
The Joker: I have given a name to my pain, and it is Batman.
Alfred Pennyworth: I have little desire to spend my few remaining years grieving for the loss of old friends. Or their sons.
The Joker: Where does he get those wonderful toys?

Nic: Don't kill me! Don't kill me, man! Don't kill me! Don't kill me, man!
Batman: I'm not going to kill you. I want you to do me a favor. I want you to tell all your friends about me.
Nic: What are you?
Batman: I'm Batman.

Vicki Vale: Some people think you're as dangerous as the Joker.
Batman: He's psychotic.
Vicki Vale: Some people say the same about you.
Batman: What people?
Vicki Vale: Well, face it. You're not exactly normal, are you?
Batman: This isn't exactly a normal world, is it?

The Joker: Now comes the part where I relieve you, the little people, of the burden of your failed and useless lives. But remember, as my plastic surgeon always said: if you gotta go, go with a smile.

The Joker: [fuming] Batman... Batman... Can somebody tell me what kind of a world we live in, where a man dressed up as a *bat* gets all of my press? This town needs an enema!

Bruce Wayne: You want to get nuts? Come on! Lets get nuts!

 

[El Payaso]

There's one scene in Begins that really bothers me. The one on the plane, where Bruce is saying to Alfred how he is going to change Gotham, and show the people it doesn't belong to the criminals and the corrupt etc.

Bale puts absolutely no energy into it at all. He acts like he's listing the issues that need to be addressed at a stockholder's meeting or something. He's dull, and almost sleepy in delivering these lines.

I agree with Lathrop. Bale did very good with Goyer's spoonfeeding lines. Any other actor with less talent than Bale would have sounded terrible.

 

[Michael Myers]

Thats another thing that B89 does better. BB had whatever lines like, "its not who you are underneath but what you do that defines you."

How can you beat B89 lines like:
The Joker: Haven't you ever heard of the healing power of laughter?
The Joker: I've been dead once already; it's very liberating. You might think of it as... therapy.
The Joker: I'm givin' away free money, and where's the Batman? Home washing his tights?
[laughs]
The Joker: Jack is dead, my friend. You can call me Joker and as you can see I'm a lot happier.
The Joker: I have given a name to my pain, and it is Batman.
Alfred Pennyworth: I have little desire to spend my few remaining years grieving for the loss of old friends. Or their sons.
The Joker: Where does he get those wonderful toys?

Nic: Don't kill me! Don't kill me, man! Don't kill me! Don't kill me, man!
Batman: I'm not going to kill you. I want you to do me a favor. I want you to tell all your friends about me.
Nic: What are you?
Batman: I'm Batman.

Vicki Vale: Some people think you're as dangerous as the Joker.
Batman: He's psychotic.
Vicki Vale: Some people say the same about you.
Batman: What people?
Vicki Vale: Well, face it. You're not exactly normal, are you?
Batman: This isn't exactly a normal world, is it?

The Joker: Now comes the part where I relieve you, the little people, of the burden of your failed and useless lives. But remember, as my plastic surgeon always said: if you gotta go, go with a smile.

The Joker: [fuming] Batman... Batman... Can somebody tell me what kind of a world we live in, where a man dressed up as a *bat* gets all of my press? This town needs an enema!

Bruce Wayne: You want to get nuts? Come on! Lets get nuts!

Thats very, very true.

I definately agree that Batman 1989 had more memorable lines than Begins. Although there was quite a few great ones from Nolan's film, it just wasnt as abundant as Burton's film.

 

[Mee]

I don't think there's anyone who prefers the Begins costume or Batmobile to Batman's, so I'm just gonna go ahead and throw this one right out there.

I do. Suit and car.


I like Begins better in every way. Though I do still like Batman.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I love both films equally which I have stated on these boards numerous times. Each one is a different view of the character that I enjoy, though I grew up on 89, Begins came out when I was an adult and the film itself fits well with my age. Its obvious that 89 was a film made for all audiences to enjoy, even families, though there were some somewhat disturbing parts included ( Obviously nowhere near anything in Returns) but Begins to me seems to be a more adult film. The 4 times I went to see Begins in the theaters, I saw mostly adults, not many children were present, I actually think children that have or will watch it will lose interest because the film dosent start right out with him in the suit straight to action ( which many people actually thought it was going to be like before seeing the film). Begins is definetly not to kids what Spiderman movies are these days, but I like it that way, I love Spiderman movies alot but I would never want to see a Batman film in this day in age marketed the way they do Spiderman ( 89 was the right time to blow up Batman the way they did), it would be too over the top for a serious comic book character. To stop blabbing and get to the point despites pros and cons of each film, I love them 100% equally!

 

[Bat Attack]

Anyone see Michelle Pheffier on Ellen yesterday? She looks better than ever! I was shocked to see her because she has been out of the spotlight for the past few years.

 

[DCW]

I do. Suit and car.


I like Begins better in every way. Though I do still like Batman.

^ You and Mee both, brother.

Gotta be honest, I love 89 and the sentimental value it has for me, growing up with it and all, but I'll take Begins over it anyday.

 

[The Chairman]

I have to agree with the B89 supporters. Batman Begins looks the wonder and nuances that I loved about B89. In BB, everything under the sun is thrown at you - how he became Batman, how he got his gadgets, and just about everything else you can think of.

In B89, very little is explained, thus leaving the mystery wide open and leaving the story open to interpretation, which I personally felt was the better approach. The mystery aura is, for me, the most important element of the character, and it Burton nailed it for me.

For me, Keaton's Batman and more importantly Bruce Wayne for me worked better on acting level than Bale. Yes, Bale may be a great actor, and he may be 6' tall and built like a tank, but his Batman was flawed. The one scene he came off as threatening or imposing for me was the dock scene. Other than that, I felt he was far too restrained, and when he was Bruce he felt a bit stiff. With Keaton, both in and out of the suit, I felt more connected to the characters persona, I got a better taste of the duality nature of both sides of the character, as well as the conflict it brought to all aspects in his life (though this worked more so in Batman Returns).

Similarly, with the exception of Neeson's Ra's, the villians in BB were completely uninteresting and never really came off as all that threatening. Nicholson's Joker oozed menace and fear. Many people say his Joker was corny, but I myself would be far more threatened by a guy with white skin, a permanent smile and the most terrifying voice and laugh you've ever heard than, a skinny, flamboyant doctor running around with a potato sack on his head.

I could go on with the reasons as to why I feel Burton's films are superior (superior dialogue, a better looking, creepier Gotham, more inventive direction, etc.), but it would be worthless at this point because the argument has already been done thousands of times.

In the end, as I've stated I prefer Burton's films. I love BB, but I doesn't work for me as much else than just as good as good origin story. TDK will hopefully be mindblowing, though.

 

[Agentsands77]

The mystery aura is, for me, the most important element of the character,

Really? I'm amazed that people rate this mystery so highly. After years in the comics, there's almost no mystery left in the character... everything's explained and explored. For me, it doesn't ruin the appeal of the character one bit, because what I find interesting is precisely how and why the character does things, not just leaving him as the great unexplained mystery man.

With Keaton, both in and out of the suit, I felt more connected to the characters persona, I got a better taste of the duality nature of both sides of the character, as well as the conflict it brought to all aspects in his life (though this worked more so in Batman Returns).

Batman is just starting out in BEGINS... duality isn't really going to be such an issue there, because the tension between the two aspects of his personality have only really started. Wayne hasn't started to really get lost in Batman yet. Similarly, the conflict it brings to "all aspects in his life" is just kicking into gear, and he only starts to realize that truth by the end of BEGINS.

My problem with Keaton is that I just don't buy his Bruce Wayne doing all that Batman does. I can't buy his Bruce Wayne as the kind of man who would be driven to fight crime year after year. In Bale's Wayne, there's a sort of residual darkness, a sort of intensity. Keaton's Wayne is just too much of a harmless oddball for me to reconcile it to the Batman persona. His Batman is undeniably magnificent, though.

Similarly, with the exception of Neeson's Ra's, the villians in BB were completely uninteresting and never really came off as all that threatening.

You don't find Murphy's Scarecrow (sure, he's a second-tier lackey, but I thought he was pretty fascinating) and Wilkinson's Falcone (another great character) at all interesting?

Furthermore, it's arguable that the only character who should be that threatening is Ra's himself. After all, Gotham City isn't yet full of costumed criminals. It's like saying, "None of the villains in BATMAN: YEAR ONE were anywhere near as threatening or memorable as the villains from later in Batman's career." Well, of course. Doesn't mean that YEAR ONE is flawed because of it, though.

Many people say his Joker was corny, but I myself would be far more threatened by a guy with white skin, a permanent smile and the most terrifying voice and laugh you've ever heard
than, a skinny, flamboyant doctor running around with a potato sack on his head.

Scratch that, and make that a guy with clearly painted-on and overly-makeupped white skin, a very fake-looking permanent smile, and a decent voice and a darn good laugh.

Seriously, though, Nicholson's Joker was good, but let's not overstate things. He's not that scary, aside from a few moments (the "Boo!" is pretty good). If anything, I feel the Napier persona was far scarier than his Joker, if only for that extra bit of intensity. I wish Nicholson had carried more over from that. He's scary as hell when he's making his Joker introduction, with the whole "You set me up" bit, but as soon as he starts acting like a goofball, the intensity disappates and suddenly he's not as creepy. His Joker becomes a sort of pudgy buffoon, a prankster with a knack for killing people - not a really sinister murderer. Nothing wrong with that, but I wish he had been able to break it up with moments of a little more intensity and more stillness.

And has the Scarecrow ever been as intimidating and threatening as the Joker? The Scarecrow in the comics has essentially always been a dork who dresses up in a weird costume but is able to scare people through other means than himself. He's never been one of the top-tier villains, and it's not like BEGINS tries to make him one.

I love BB, but I doesn't work for me as much else than just as good as good origin story.

Isn't that all BATMAN BEGINS was supposed to be?

 

[pointman]

You know what? Imo B89 is the definitive comic book movie.....of all time.
1) It was made in freakin' '89 and still holds up to this day.
2) It took itself seriously as a movie but maintained the respect of the source material that its pure fantasy, meshing both elements together resulting in a glorious portrayal of Batmn's world.
3) Keaton as batman is the best and most solid comic book hero performance of all time imo....he just oozed it, he was a freakin' beast and sometimes still gives me a lil'fright. Just look at his face and listen to that voice, it's enough to make you crap your pants.
4) Great action, subtle character development
5) Billy D was in the movie...that alone rates it in the top 3 GOAL comic book movies
6) The film held together nicely and was never at any time boring
7) Has multiple viewing factor
8)No damn nipples

 

[Agentsands77]

You know what? Imo B89 is the definitive comic book movie.....of all time.

Suit yourself, but I would disagree. It's an iconic superhero entry, and certainly one of the ones worthy of recognition, but it's too flawed to ever be "definitive." As of now, I don't think we've seen a "definitive" comic book film. We've seen a few good ones, but they all have too many problems to be held up on any sort of pedestal.

1) It was made in freakin' '89 and still holds up to this day.

Uh, so did a lot of movies made in '89. It's not that remarkable. And BATMAN certainly looks older than '89, if you ask me (probably due to its low budget, moreso than anything).

 

[The Joker]

Agentsands77, you seem really insecure by the fact that other people like Batman 89 more than Begins.

Stop trying to ram your opinion down other people's throats.

 

[DieSmiling]

What I like about Batman (1989):

-The score. That theme is Batman.

-Gotham City. I love the way the city and architecture looks. I love the gothic Gotham over a more realistic modern city.

-The Batsuit and Batmobile; they just come off as the classic design, look awesome.

-Michael Keaton as Batman. He's iconic, I like his voice the most.

-It's classic Batman. Like Superman '78 and Spider-Man '02, it simply has the advantage of being the first big time movie on its star, so it has the iconic heritage you associate with it. John Williams' Superman score and Elfman's Batman and Spider-Man scores will always be most associated with their superheroes. It's classic Joker origin story, Batman vs. the Joker, the same way Superman '78 is Superman vs. Lex and Spider-Man is Spider-Man vs. the Goblin. It's the first definitive Batman movie, and that gives it standing.

-The mood is dark and gritty, and very Batman. I just love that Gothic Gotham with the classic mobster tone.


What I like about Begins:

-First and most importantly, the characterization of Batman, as well as the role Batman plays. This movie, as it's an origin story of course, understands what the Batman/Bruce Wayne character is all about, and displays that extremely well. Batman doesn't kill. I feel like Burton's Batman is so flat and hard to understand.

-The star of this movie is Batman -- it's his story. One thing that annoys me about all four previous movies is that the villains overshadow Batman. There is no doubt who the star of this movie is.

-Christain Bale is awesome as Bruce Wayne AND Batman -- I HATE Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne. He comes off like such a weird neurotic doofus. Seriously, rewatch Batman '89 and tell me the love story between Bruce and Vicki isn't preposterously unbelievable and awkward.

-Overall I just think acting is Begins is much better than in Batman '89. This is certainly a debatable point, however.

-Begins has more substance, it has strong themes. It's true they beat you over the head with those themes, but I think the film has a much stronger emotional core, and it makes the characters seem more important.

-The care and focus given to Gordon and Alfred. Because of the way the story is written, they come off as very organic, deep, interesting characters who are important to the story. In Batman '89 they are simple one dimensional stock characters.

-It presents Batman as if it could actually happen, which I think is a very interesting take on the character.

Honestly, as a Batman fan I really like all five of the Batman movies (yes, even Batman and Robin in its own way) but at the end of the day I think Begins is just a better made overall film, and truer to the spirit of Batman. I still love Batman '89 though, it's certainly the classic and iconic take on the character, and it's also definitely better in a few ways of its own.

 

[DieSmiling]

Also, you'll never have a definitive comic book movie, as by definition all comic book characters have various interpretations. You'll never please everybody.